mazaje:


He is not a respected neurosurgeon anywhere, he is a liar who was just trying to use religious faith to make some cool cash by publishing a book based on lies and fiction. . .

Over the course of the past 12 years, he has apparently worked at three separate hospitals, but his employment has ended without explanation at each location. Here’s a sample surrounding his departure from one of the hospitals he once worked at:

In August 2003, UMass Memorial suspended Alexander’s surgical privileges “on the basis or allegation of improper performance of surgery.” (The specifics of the case leading to the suspension are confidential, though Alexander claims it resulted from “a very complex repeat operation I did around the brain stem of a patient in which the patient had more difficulty recovering after the operation I would say than I anticipated and than I led them to believe.”) His suspension technically ended in November of that same year, but he never went back to work at UMass Memorial. He resigned. The following year he did a little freelance consulting for the Gerson Lehrman Group, a company that matches corporations with experts in various fields, and also filed an unsuccessful lawsuit against the Brigham and Women’s Hospital, claiming it improperly withheld more than $400,000 of his retirement and deferred-compensation plans. He had been more or less out of work for fifteen months when, in March 2005, he received a letter from the Massachusetts Board of Registration in Medicine asking him to respond to a complaint form they’d received from a former patient who was upset that Alexander had stopped responding to phone calls. Alexander wrote a letter back, explaining that the complaint was invalid because he was no longer practicing and that, furthermore, he would soon be leaving the state altogether.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/07/03/did-the-famed-neurosurgeon-who-claims-he-saw-god-and-visited-heaven-lie-article-exposes-alleged-inconsistencies/

He was actually a Dr without a job until he devised a means to sell a lie using religious faith to make cool cash. . .All he is doing is what you and others do all the time, which is to tell lies for Jesus. . .Even he himself had had to change some of his stories when confronted by other experts. . .

While I can't vouch for Dr Eben Alexander's work experience, I can only go by what is reported in the news media, yet I can only see that his main neagtive critic has been only ONE source amidst many other positive critics, one of which is Huffington Post.

Here is the interview:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ingrid-peschke/near-death-experiences_b_4151093.html

BraveGuy:


You are such a joke!

Do you know where the threats you attributed to me is coming from? Your guilty conscience. As they say, "Ignorance of the law is not an excuse for crime." If you like, in spite of the evidence, continue to make excuses and dismiss the facts. Although, I doubt you read the article, maybe you just skimmed through it, otherwise, you won't be saying 90% of what you say except you just want make yourself look really foolish.

Perhaps, you do not think through before writing your replies. I will implore you to read the two articles again. This is not a religious matter, the guy wasn't even preaching, he's a respected neurosurgeon. How can you attribute his experiences to hallucination? No, you didn't read the article and hear him well.

In addition, did you see the video at the bottom of the page about the boy who went to heaven? "Heaven is Real". Do you want to tell me that a small boy who was born much AFTER his mother lost a baby through miscarriage (and never talked about it); got to meet the miscarried baby girl in heaven and later mentioned it to the shock of his parents? Hallucinating? You must be joking!

"Ignorantia juris non excusat" or "Ignorantia legis neminem excusat".

As my friend Mazaje has intervened in a timely manner to show that your so-called respected neurosurgeon has been clearly refuted in his claims.
The point here is that you apparently do not know the meaning of hallucination. You think it is some kind of insult.
An entire hallucination can take place withing a very small fraction of second immediately after his brain supposedly rebooted and came back to functionality. In other words, his heavenly experience most likely occurred during the rebooting process. But that is something I don't ever expect you to understand, talkless of agreeing with.

You religiotards are beholden to magical thinking. It is your bread and butter.

I find it funny and at the same time sad that while blokes like you keep shouting heaven heaven, real humans with funtioning brains are building rocketships to heaven, to study the heavens for the future possibility of human colonization.

https://www.nairaland.com/1923049/india-successfully-goes-mars-just#27323274

plaetton:


As my friend Mazaje has intervened in a timely manner to show that your so-called respected neurosurgeon has been clearly refuted in his claims.
The point here is that you apparently do not know the meaning of hallucination. You think it is some kind of insult.
An entire hallucination can take place withing a very small fraction of second immediately after his brain supposedly rebooted and came back to functionality. In other words, his heavenly experience most likely occurred during the rebooting process. But that is something I don't ever expect you to understand, talkless of agreeing with.

You religiotards are beholden to magical thinking. It is your bread and butter.

I find it funny and at the same time sad that while blokes like you keep shouting heaven heaven, real humans with funtioning brains are building rocketships to heaven, to study the heavens for the future possibility of human colonization.

https://www.nairaland.com/1923049/india-successfully-goes-mars-just#27323274

I guess you are the one who may not know the meaning of hallucination. For argument's sake here it is:
"an experience involving the apparent perception of something not present."

Now answer my previous question about the boy, because so far, you have failed to provide an explanation as to the facts the boy brought back with him in his glimpse of heaven:
#1. The sister he never met nor was aware ever existed.
#2. His grandfather whom he never met but was able to identify in a photo?
#3. His view of his father screaming in the chapel?
#4. His description of what Jesus Christ truly looks like?

Were these as a result of hallucinations?
If not, what was it that he experienced?

BraveGuy:


I guess you are the one who may not know the meaning of hallucination. For argument's sake here it is:
"an experience involving the apparent perception of something not present."

Now answer my previous question about the boy, because so far, you have failed to provide an explanation as to the facts the boy brought back with him in his glimpse of heaven:
#1. The sister he never met nor was aware ever existed.
#2. His grandfather whom he never met but was able to identify in a photo?
#3. His view of his father screaming in the chapel?
#4. His description of what Jesus Christ truly looks like?

Were these as a result of hallucinations?
If not, what w as it that he experienced?

Lol.
I cannot help laughing at #4.
His real description of what Jesus looks like?
Unbelievable! This one really blows me up.

And I spent all this time thinking I was debating with a mental midget ?
I feel do embarrassed for myself.

The multi billion dollar question is: does religion make people really really silly , or are really really silly attracted and attached to religion?

BraveGuy:


I guess you are the one who may not know the meaning of hallucination. For argument's sake here it is:
"an experience involving the apparent perception of something not present."

Now answer my previous question about the boy, because so far, you have failed to provide an explanation as to the facts the boy brought back with him in his glimpse of heaven:
#1. The sister he never met nor was aware ever existed.
#2. His grandfather whom he never met but was able to identify in a photo?
#3. His view of his father screaming in the chapel?
#4. His description of what Jesus Christ truly looks like?

Were these as a result of hallucinations?
If not, what was it that he experienced?

You just never listen, do you? I previously said:

Asking atheists to explain this is like me claiming to be superman and asking you to prove otherwise. It is quite impossible to prove a negative, isn't it?

Asking anybody to prove that a subjective experience is not real is asking the person to prove a negative. You can't prove a negative unless you have all possible information in the universe, and you can only prove you have all possible information in the universe to a person equally as versed about the universe. Do you see the difficulty? So the burden of proof really is on you, the claimant, especially given that you choose to ignore all the plausible physical explanations in place of the most credulous one. YOU need to show that your story is factually.

For example, you call the boy's supposed glimpse of heaven a fact, but you really don't know that, because you cannot verify such a claim.

plaetton:


Lol.
I cannot help laughing at #4.
His real description of what Jesus looks like?
Unbelievable! This one really blows me up.

And I spent all this time thinking I was debating with a mental midget ?
I feel do embarrassed for myself.

The multi billion dollar question is: does religion make people really really silly , or are really really silly attracted and attached to religion?

a 4year old's account of his oob reveals truth he cud never have known except his experience were true.

And your response? Very scientifc and logcal!

AgentOfAllah:


You just never listen, do you? I previously said:



Asking anybody to prove that a subjective experience is not real is asking the person to prove a negative. You can't prove a negative unless you have all possible information in the universe, and you can only prove you have all possible information in the universe to a person equally as versed about the universe. Do you see the difficulty? So the burden of proof really is on you, the claimant, especially given that you choose to ignore all the plausible physical explanations in place of the most credulous one. YOU need to show that your story is factually.

For example, you call the boy's supposed glimpse of heaven a fact, but you really don't know that, because you cannot verify such a claim.

how is he suppose to verify the claim? Visit the boy physcally, get the hospital records? Get a video showg the boy in d operating theater? Give d boy a polygraph test shwg he isnt lying?
You tht blve in evolution, have u subjected your own belief to this level of rigour?
At what point of testg will it b accepted tht the boy is telling the truth?

asalimpo:


a 4year old's account of his oob reveals truth he cud never have known except his experience were true.

And your response? Very scientifc and logcal!

Listen to yourself.
A 4yr old's account of his OOBE?
Are you serious?

I just can't believe how incredibly silly you guys can descend to.

I had many strange experiences when I was 1 yes old. Would you like to hear them?

asalimpo:


how is he suppose to verify the claim? Visit the boy physcally, get the hospital records? Get a video showg the boy in d operating theater? Give d boy a polygraph test shwg he isnt lying?
You tht blve in evolution, have u subjected your own belief to this level of rigour?
At what point of testg will it b accepted tht the boy is telling the truth?

If you can't verify a claim, you shouldn't believe it is fact.

I believe in evolution, what? I don't believe in evolution, anymore than you believe that gravity exists. It is a scientific model, a theory that explains why there are several species. It's not a perfect theory, but a best fit one. I don't need the theory of evolution to function, and if it is scientifically falsified, I'll welcome the new theory that takes its place. I'm not an evolution-biologist myself, so I don't carryout tests on the theory of evolution. Nevertheless, I read about it routinely, and there are some pretty elegant demonstrations of its occurrence, eg, convergence of genetic variations in all living things. You can read the Wikipedia entry on it, and you'll be amazed.

asalimpo:


a 4year old's account of his oob reveals truth he cud never have known except his experience were true.

And your response? Very scientifc and logcal!

Listen to yourself.
A 4yr old's account of his OOBE?
Are you serious?

I just can't believe how incredibly silly you guys can descend to.

I had many strange experiences when I was 1 yrs old. Would you like to hear them?

Like I said, I feel terribly embarrassed that I wasted all this time debating with mental midgets who anchor their worldview on the accounts of a 4 yr old boy.
And you want a scientific explanation?
Why not get one from a 4 yr old.

asalimpo:

if his story is true,he proves that there's a spirit world.
Besides, more people from different walks of life have narrated oob experiences that indicate there's a world beyond this.
They'd all have to b lying- which they arent.
The bible explicitly says there's one.

please give us a vivid description of this spirit world from your bible.

plaetton:

Listen to yourself.
A 4yr old's account of his OOBE?
Are you serious?

I just can't believe how incredibly silly you guys can descend to.

I had many strange experiences when I was 1 yes old. Would you like to hear them?

only silly,if a 4 year old cannot relay an experience he had? Wen you were 4 you couldnt describe a visitor to your parents? You couldnt describe the items in a room in ur house? Your brain wasnt developed yet until wen 5,6,8 yrs?

asalimpo:


a 4year old's account of his oob reveals truth he cud never have known except his experience were true.

And your response? Very scientifc and logcal!

Your god must be a comedian

The universe your deity claims to father is in a shambles and all he does is: share his selfie with a kid in an OOB rendezvous?

BraveGuy:



To be honest, the arguments presented as a debunk to Dr Eben Alexander's experience are just arguments against his experience, they do not hold water.

Who else would like to debunk the story of the boy upon which the movie, "Heaven Is Real" was based?

I am looking forward to that now.

I have watched a movie " the sixth sense" by Bruce Willis, it just shows that some kids are just gifted, the movie has nothing to do with religion or heaven but dead people use to come to this boy for various help.

your boy in question could also be gifted though, but also influence with the Christian religion, he must have been taught the doctrines of heaven and hell.

the various stories of heaven put together, does it really match the description of heaven as described in the holy books? or do the holy books have any accurate description of this place at all?

how are they so sure that what they saw was heaven?

qstar:


Your god must be a comedian

The universe your deity claims to father is in a shambles and all he does is: share his selfie with a kid in an OOB rendezvous?

if the experience was from a 40yr old,you wud disclaim it as a fabrication.
If from a 90 yr old you'd write it off as a case of senile delirium.
If from a former brain surgeon,
you'll call it hallucination.
Anything to wrap your minds in justifiable denial.

qstar:




Your god must be a comedian

The universe your deity claims to father is in a shambles and all he does is: share his selfie with a kid in an OOB rendezvous?

urheme:


I have watched a movie " the sixth sense" by Bruce Willis, it just shows that some kids are just gifted, the movie has nothing to do with religion or heaven but dead people use to come to this boy for various help.

your boy in question could also be gifted though, but also influence with the Christian religion, he must have been taught the doctrines of heaven and hell.

the various stories of heaven put together, does it really match the description of heaven as described in the holy books? or do the holy books have any accurate description of this place at all?

how are they so sure that what they saw was heaven?

keep mixing,you could come up with somethg tasty.
Afterall, this is how the theory of evolution was cooked up for you guyz.

asalimpo:


only silly,if a 4 year old cannot relay an experience he had? Wen you were 4 you couldnt describe a visitor to your parents? You couldnt describe the items in a room in ur house? Your brain wasnt developed yet until wen 5,6,8 yrs?

Hhhmmm.
I wonder why a 4yr old account cannot be accepted as evidence in a court of law.
Do you know why?
Take a wild guess.

qstar:




Your god must be a comedian

The universe your deity claims to father is in a shambles and all he does is: share his selfie with a kid in an OOB rendezvous?

Classic!

asalimpo:


keep mixing,you could come up with somethg tasty.
Afterall, this is how the theory of evolution was cooked up for you guyz.

I am not a fan of evolution theory, in fact I hate it.

at least give me an answer even if it is half baked, perhaps it may just clear all my doubt.

asalimpo:


if the experience was from a 40yr old,you wud disclaim it as a fabrication.
If from a 90 yr old you'd write it off as a case of senile delirium.
If from a former brain surgeon,
you'll call it hallucination.
Anything to wrap your minds in justifiable denial.

I mean, comm'on man! We have boko haram, ISIS, Al qaeda, et al grotesquely severing people, sending them to unwanted and tumultuous deaths, we have Cancer, HIV/AIDS, Malaria killing people in their millions, abject poverty ravaging Africa and the under-developed countries. It is reported that an average of 3,000,000 people die yearly from hunger and poverty related issues.

All your deity could do, was to pose for a selfie and reveal it to a Jewish prodigy in an extra-terrestrial chit-chat? Isn't Jonathan and our African presidents better?

Please, whenever you embark on your own chit-chat with the omni-omni daddy, do tell him to sit up, haba!
It seems he's clueless, let him start with Peace! Yes, peace. Let him stop all the wars and insurgencies we hear every now and then, atleast.

qstar:




Your god must be a comedian

The universe your deity claims to father is in a shambles and all he does is: share his selfie with a kid in an OOB rendezvous?

still waiting to hear a Muslim version of out of body trip to the Muslim heaven, a male's experience will be better .

we will know how many virgins he brooked before he came back to earth

asalimpo:


if the experience was from a 40yr old,you wud disclaim it as a fabrication.
If from a 90 yr old you'd write it off as a case of senile delirium.
If from a former brain surgeon,
you'll call it hallucination.
Anything to wrap your minds in justifiable denial.

You still don't get it.
I don't know about you, but I ( and a lot of people) have personally had many many strange experiences that I could have used as a basis to form my own religion.
The mind is a very complex machine whose mysteries we are still trying to unravel piece by piece.
It is only cognitive dissonance, doubts and fears that leads people like to you to ascribe any mental or psychological experiences to proof of god's existence.

It remains quite laughable that people like you rely on these types of mental oddities to attempt to prove the existence your self-evident god.
If your god is self evident, why are we debating his existence?

When was the last time we debated the existence of Gravity, the Sun or the Alpha Centuri Nebula?

qstar:



I mean, comm'on man! We have boko haram, ISIS, Al qaeda, et al grotesquely severing people, sending them to unwanted and tumultuous deaths, we have Cancer, HIV/AIDS, Malaria killing people in their millions, abject poverty ravaging Africa and the under-developed countries. It is reported that an average of 3,000,000 people die yearly from hunger and poverty related issues.

All your deity could do, was to pose for a selfie and reveal it to a Jewish prodigy in an extra-terrestrial chit-chat? Isn't Jonathan and our African presidents better?

Please, whenever you embark on your own chit-chat with the omni-omni daddy, do tell him to sit up, haba!
It seems he's clueless, let him start with Peace! Yes, peace. Let him stop all the wars and insurgencies we hear every now and then, atleast.

I mean, cognitive dissonace is a very debilitating mental illness.
Imagine that 115 god-believing worshippers left the confines of their countries, left the churches, pastors and gods in their countries to see the super-god in Nigeria, to be near to god, to hear his voice and receive his blessings and cures for their various ailments.
What happens?
Well, the god of Nigeria decides to kill them by allowing the temple, his temple to fall them and grind them to pieces.
And....?
You would think that this calamity, this act of god, would force a rethink of the role of god in human affairs .
Nope!
Blame it on the devil and move on.

Religion is insanity.
Really.

qstar:



I mean, comm'on man! We have boko haram, ISIS, Al qaeda, et al grotesquely severing people, sending them to unwanted and tumultuous deaths, we have Cancer, HIV/AIDS, Malaria killing people in their millions, abject poverty ravaging Africa and the under-developed countries. It is reported that an average of 3,000,000 people die yearly from hunger and poverty related issues.

All your deity could do, was to pose for a selfie and reveal it to a Jewish prodigy in an extra-terrestrial chit-chat? Isn't Jonathan and our African presidents better?

Please, whenever you embark on your own chit-chat with the omni-omni daddy, do tell him to sit up, haba!
It seems he's clueless, let him start with Peace! Yes, peace. Let him stop all the wars and insurgencies we hear every now and then, atleast.

this question veers into anoda dimension. The issue here is whether God exists or not?
A wicked God or a senile one is not non existing? Infact,it's a logical error to deny the existence of God because His character trait don't align with your ideals.

plaetton:



I mean, cognitive dissonace is a very debilitating mental illness.
Imagine that 115 god-believing worshippers left the confines of their countries, left the churches, pastors and gods in their countries to see the super-god in Nigeria, to be near to god, to hear his voice and receive his blessings and cures for their various ailments.
What happens?
Well, the god of Nigeria decides to kill them by allowing the temple, his temple to fall them and grind them to pieces.
And....?
You would think that this calamity, this act of god, would force a rethink of the role of god in human affairs .
Nope!
Blame it on the devil and move on.

Religion is insanity.
Really.

tb joshua's buildg collapsed leavg casualties. Dyu blame God for that?
Was the buildg constructed in strict accordance with required buildg codes and government regulations? If it wasnt and the buildg toppled because of errors on man's part how and why blame God for it?
Or just because it was used for religious services God shud now be d culprit. Your engineers construct bridges that collapse taking lives with them and you explain it away. Science and engineering studies dont bcome outlawed in higher institutions.
Rockets blow up takg lives with them yet rocket science isnt scrapped but a buildg collapses and your logcal mind,so called, concludes God is non existent!
Atheism is greater insanity.
Besides, 115 people wouldnt leave their country to visit tb joshua,if they werent sufficiently persuaded tht there was hope for them. Y dont u investigate cases of those who claimed to hav had their problems solved by visitg him?

urheme:


I have watched a movie " the sixth sense" by Bruce Willis, it just shows that some kids are just gifted, the movie has nothing to do with religion or heaven but dead people use to come to this boy for various help.

your boy in question could also be gifted though, but also influence with the Christian religion, he must have been taught the doctrines of heaven and hell.

the various stories of heaven put together, does it really match the description of heaven as described in the holy books? or do the holy books have any accurate description of this place at all?

how are they so sure that what they saw was heaven?

So, you mean if we all (say 10 of us) visited a place where we have never been before and are told to write or describe the place we have been, we would all say exactly the same things?

Moses was "caught up to God" on the mount, and God showed him some things about heaven, of which He later told him, "See that you make it according to the pattern showed to you on the mountain." Later, John the apostle had a similar revelation, he describes the same but in a more vivid way, would you question their visions that they didn't see the same things even though they are describing it differently?

plaetton:



I mean, cognitive dissonace is a very debilitating mental illness.
Imagine that 115 god-believing worshippers left the confines of their countries, left the churches, pastors and gods in their countries to see the super-god in Nigeria, to be near to god, to hear his voice and receive his blessings and cures for their various ailments.
What happens?
Well, the god of Nigeria decides to kill them by allowing the temple, his temple to fall them and grind them to pieces.
And....?
You would think that this calamity, this act of god, would force a rethink of the role of god in human affairs .
Nope!
Blame it on the devil and move on.

Religion is insanity.
Really.

Point of correction: I hate religion more than you!
Following Jesus is not a religion, it is a mind-set and a lifestyle.

plaetton:


You still don't get it.
I don't know about you, but I ( and a lot of people) have personally had many many strange experiences that I could have used as a basis to form my own religion.
The mind is a very complex machine whose mysteries we are still trying to unravel piece by piece.
It is only cognitive dissonance, doubts and fears that leads people like to you to ascribe any mental or psychological experiences to proof of god's existence.

It remains quite laughable that people like you rely on these types of mental oddities to attempt to prove the existence your self-evident god.
If your god is self evident, why are we debating his existence?

When was the last time we debated the existence of Gravity, the Sun or the Alpha Centuri Nebula?

yeah,the mind is so complex people experience realities outside their physcal senses that suprisingly tallies with the bible?
It's all mind bro.
This so-complex mind came about by pure accident. And evolved to its present state but is no more dramatically evolvg anymore! This is d poo tht you nod to.
Ironically, humans with all their diligence cannot with concerted effort best wat evolution/nothingness produced in one blind random freakish mistaken instance!
Quite convincg..

plaetton:


Lol.
I cannot help laughing at #4.
His real description of what Jesus looks like?
Unbelievable! This one really blows me up.

And I spent all this time thinking I was debating with a mental midget ?
I feel do embarrassed for myself.

The multi billion dollar question is: does religion make people really really silly , or are really really silly attracted and attached to religion?

I feel embarrassed for you too. it is time some sections of society are ignored or silently put down

qstar:



I mean, comm'on man! We have boko haram, ISIS, Al qaeda, et al grotesquely severing people, sending them to unwanted and tumultuous deaths, we have Cancer, HIV/AIDS, Malaria killing people in their millions, abject poverty ravaging Africa and the under-developed countries. It is reported that an average of 3,000,000 people die yearly from hunger and poverty related issues.

All your deity could do, was to pose for a selfie and reveal it to a Jewish prodigy in an extra-terrestrial chit-chat? Isn't Jonathan and our African presidents better?

Please, whenever you embark on your own chit-chat with the omni-omni daddy, do tell him to sit up, haba!
It seems he's clueless, let him start with Peace! Yes, peace. Let him stop all the wars and insurgencies we hear every now and then, atleast.

You still don't get it!

How can you be blaming God for the evils of mankind?

Have you ever tried to check some of the genesis of these problems? Ever heard of the NWO? Which planet are you living on?
Maybe you can check this thread: https://www.nairaland.com/1955870/open-eyes-war

So, God created man to do all that is evil? He made them invent the Atomic Bomb that destroyed Nagasaki & Hiroshima? Why do we always look for excuses perpetrated by the evil of mankind and blame it on God? Why are we so proud and always try to deflect blame and responsibility?

Ok OP you win. Please come and take your prize. But before u do that, can u pls tell me the God that gave Dr.eben alexander the experience. is it allah, vishnu, mithra, zeus, krishna or yahweh. You guys are so funny. Do u know how many religious people experience out of body experiences. I can post links of islamic NDEs, jewish NDEs, even so called pagan NDEs. the problem with religion as usual has always been the fact that your claims cant seem to agree on one God. Ok, we accept that there is a human spirit that was functional even when he had no brain activity and am sure many people from thousands other religions can claim that. So which one should we believe? do the islamic heaven and christian heaven exist side by side? what of other pagans?

Has it occured to you that his perception of life even when there was no brain activity is as a result of we humans having limited machines and technology to notice some minute brain activity that may have been causing his NDE. And please connect in a logical way how his NDE proves that a big mighty deity exists somewhere.