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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Family / Gender Stereotypes Part I (11627 Views)
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Re: Gender Stereotypes Part I by Nobody: 5:29pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
1 Like |
Re: Gender Stereotypes Part I by Nobody: 5:41pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
Nonso23: What? Didn't you quote this part of the test yourself? Nonso23: Now you're saying they didn't test what you quoted that they tested? The goal of the study was to test the difference in emotional intelligence between the males and females. They did this using the MSCEIT assessment tool. There are several broad components/branches of the MSCEIT including 'emotional managing'. So now, because you have seen the true meaning of the study, you want to exclude the parts that are not favorable to you and twist the intention of the study. Parts by the way which you yourself had previously quoted and used wrongly to try to prove your point. Nonso23: Your second statement is completely made up out of thin air. Emotional managing as applicable to the MSCEIT is exactly what I defined. You are the one making up random definitions that have nothing to do with the specifics of the study. 1 Like |
Re: Gender Stereotypes Part I by Nobody: 5:51pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
1 Like |
Re: Gender Stereotypes Part I by Nobody: 6:04pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
Nonso23: There's no need for long story. Here you go. Here are excerpts followed by a link describing the MSCEIT test in great detail and the meaning of each aspect of it. MSCEIT Scores The study you quoted said women were better in the branch of managing emotions after controlling for age. That branch is described above. You're welcome. 1 Like |
Re: Gender Stereotypes Part I by Nobody: 6:09pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
Nonso23: 100% false. Both men and women were subjected to the exact same conditions. Both men and women were given the same test to score how they would 'manage emotions'. Women scored better in that aspect. Simple. 1 Like |
Re: Gender Stereotypes Part I by Nobody: 6:20pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
Re: Gender Stereotypes Part I by Nobody: 6:24pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
1 Like |
Re: Gender Stereotypes Part I by Nobody: 6:24pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
carefreewannabe: What's wrong with a research paper done based on 19th century beliefs based on psychology and scientific/biological findings, on the differences between how men and women process their emotions? Karl Marx was 19th century as well, but a lot of the ideologies were built on his philosophy and Social Science. Sir Isaac Newton's 17th century law of motion is still the most important law in Physics. Einstein's plagiarised 19th century E = mc2 is still foundation of quantum theory. Michael Faraday's 18th century law of electromagnetism is still relevent. So, I honestly don't get you. Anyway, the only reason why I referenced the research paper is because the writer wrote extensively about the beliefs of many writers from the 19th century to the 21st century. And she did talk about both masculine and feminine emotions, and the disparities between the outward control mechanism of the sexes. Showing that: while men are passionate, women are emotional. I'll quote these excerpts: - Female/feminine reasoning capacities were described as intuitive, practical, concerned with specifics, and thus well suited to domesticity and nurturance. Male/masculine reason, in contrast, was more likely to be described in terms of a capacity for objectivity and abstraction, thus better suiting men for broader projects in which either creative thought or impartiality was needed. Rationality and intelligence were thus attributes of both sexes, but separate capacities did not mean equal capacities: The more valued cognitive capabilities were a male prerogative. For example, women were considered essentially unfit for scientific work, but observational science (astronomy and especially botany) were regarded as physically and intellectually within their grasp (Meadows, 2004). - Similarly, the masculine version of emotion stands in contrast to the feminine. In its feminine form, emotion was portrayed as a somewhat unstable sensitivity of feelings toward oneself and others. Masculine emotion, in contrast, was described as a passionate force evident in the drive to achieve, to create, and to dominate.4 Male/masculine reason was believed to be powered by a distinctively masculine Furthermore, If you look at the analysis critically, without being jaundiced in your view - you will see that there's actually no bias in their beliefs. They had more to do with finding a way both sexes can complement each other, based on the divergent ways in which they channel their emotions. Once you start over-analysing things using the need to be like men (something most feminists can't shake off), you'll always miss the message and the bigger picture. This isn't about superiority - men and women are just biologically different in a lot of areas. And we need to start appreciating these unique differences, so as to enable us focus more on how to complement each other. The duality of life - the yin and the yang. That's how we can enjoy our existence on this planet. 1 Like |
Re: Gender Stereotypes Part I by Nobody: 6:31pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
I did allude to estrogen in my first post...I'll shed more light on that now. Estrogen and Women's Emotions It's clear that estrogen is closely linked with women's emotional well-being. Depression and anxiety affect women in their estrogen-producing years more often than men or postmenopausal women. Estrogen is also linked to mood disruptions that occur only in women -- premenstrual syndrome, premenstrual dysphoric disorder, and postpartum depression. Exactly how estrogen affects emotion is much less straightforward. Is it too much estrogen? Not enough? It turns out estrogen's emotional effects are nearly as mysterious as moods themselves. Hormones and the Brain That's not to say estrogen isn't a major player in regulating moods. Estrogen acts everywhere in the body, including the parts of the brain that control emotion. Some of estrogen's effects include: - Increasing serotonin, and the number of serotonin receptors in the brain - Modifying the production and the effects of endorphins, the "feel-good" chemicals in the brain - Protecting nerves from damage, and possibly stimulating nerve growth What these effects mean in an individual woman is impossible to predict. Estrogen's actions are too complex for researchers to understand fully. As an example, despite estrogen's apparently positive effects on the brain, many women's moods improve after menopause, when estrogen levels are very low. Some experts believe that some women are more vulnerable to the menstrual cycle's normal changes in estrogen. They suggest it's the roller coaster of hormones during the reproductive years that create mood disturbances. http://www.webmd.com/women/guide/estrogen-and-womens-emotions |
Re: Gender Stereotypes Part I by Nobody: 6:34pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
Nonso23: Exactly my point. Both men and women were asked to respond to the same stimuli and they both did for the purpose of your study. Which is a far cry from your earlier claim that the study shows that the men were simply less likely to respond to the emotional stimuli so that's why women did better. Your claim has no bearing on the study in question. Nonso23: @ bolded, not according to this study. In this study, both men and women were stimulated by the emotions equally. There was no difference in the perception branches of the MSCEIT. 1 Like |
Re: Gender Stereotypes Part I by Nobody: 6:42pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
Oh lawd, spambot just locked me up! I'm locked up, they won't let me out! Anyway, this is another science article: Emotional Wiring Different in Men and Women http://www.livescience.com/4085-emotional-wiring-men-women.html |
Re: Gender Stereotypes Part I by Nobody: 6:58pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
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Re: Gender Stereotypes Part I by Nobody: 7:13pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
Nonso23: I'm sorry, how can 'men and women both scored equally in perception branch of the MSCEIT' possibly in other words mean 'women responded and scored higher on the MSCEIT…..'? *We are arguing about whether this specific study you posted supports the claims you were making from the start of the thread.* 1 Like |
Re: Gender Stereotypes Part I by Nobody: 7:28pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
Re: Gender Stereotypes Part I by Nobody: 7:51pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
Nonso23: First of all, that was not the final conclusion. Second, that's not what you said. You said my statement that men and women performed the same on the perception aspect meant that women responded and scored higher "in other words". How is this possible? You claim is that women are more emotional therefore don't reason logically. But this study you posted blows that assertion out of the water. 1 Like |
Re: Gender Stereotypes Part I by Nobody: 8:00pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
Re: Gender Stereotypes Part I by Nobody: 8:08pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
Nonso23: An error? Ok lol. The study, including your 'final conclusion' (never mind that there are least 1000 more words before the paper finally ends), states that women are more emotionally intelligent than men. Not quite the same as 'women are more emotional than men' plus or minus all other inferences you tacked on. This study does not support your claim in any way, shape or form. But nice try though. 1 Like |
Re: Gender Stereotypes Part I by Nobody: 8:17pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
Re: Gender Stereotypes Part I by Nobody: 8:45pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
Nonso23: By the question, you are trying to infer that emotional intelligence is the exact same thing as the female stereotypes being discussed in this thread? In that case, why exactly do you have a problem with my first post which highlighted the study findings that women are more emotionally intelligent than men especially in the aspect of emotional managing? Here's said post. ileobatojo: Like I said, nice try. 1 Like |
Re: Gender Stereotypes Part I by Nobody: 10:20pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
Nonso23: @bold It means that men and women are more similar that was previously assumed but women score better at emotional managing. The results that you so proudly quote show that men have more difficulties managing their emotions. Now how does this put them at an advantage in decision making? |
Re: Gender Stereotypes Part I by Nobody: 11:06pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
crackhaus: I was referring to the other source when I asked you this question. I have not even seen this one. I have a response to the research you rely on but I first need the link, please. |
Re: Gender Stereotypes Part I by Nobody: 11:10pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
Er, in terms of intelligence and smart required for the classroom, which has more to do with ability to assimilate knowledge and Regurgitation - I'd say you can't really say one se.x is superior to the other. Though guys might perform better marginally. However, when it comes to the application of this knowledge to real life situations and decision-making, that is where guys become the logical ones, while females struggle most times. Hence females also always struggle with courses that involve practicalising whatever theory they are taught. Females are good with garbage-in, garbage-out - while guys process information better. 2 Likes |
Re: Gender Stereotypes Part I by Nobody: 11:46pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
crackhaus: I have found the article. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hope-relationships/201402/brain-differences-between-genders The author of the article is a psychologist and not a neurologist and he does not merely summarize the observations and findings in the field of neurology but interprets them, which should be looked at critically because: "Complex organ Prof Heidi Johansen-Berg, a UK expert in neuroscienceat the University of Oxford, said the brain was too complex an organ to be able to make broad generalisations. "We know that there is no such thing as 'hard wiring' when it comes to brain connections. Connections can change throughout life, in response to experience and learning. "Often, sophisticated mathematical approaches are used to analyse and describe these brain networks. These methods can be useful to identify differences between groups, but it is often challenging to interpret those differences in biological terms." Dr Michael Bloomfield, Clinical Research Fellow at the Medical Research Council Clinical Sciences Centre in London, said: "It has been known for some time that there are differences between the sexes when it comes to how our bodies work and the brain is no exception. However, he said care must be taken in drawing conclusions from the study, as the precise relationships between how our brains are wired and our performance on particular tasks needed further investigation. "We cannot say yet that one is causing the other." (...) "We think that there can also be differences in certain chemicals in the brain called neurotransmitters, for example, and so we need more research to fully understand how all these different aspects of brain structure and function work together to answer fundamental questions like "how do we think?". "One thing that remains unknown is what is driving these differences between the sexes. An obvious possibility is that that male hormones like testosterone and female hormones like oestrogren have different affects on the brain. "A more subtle possibility is that bringing a child up in a particular gender could affect how our brains are wired." http://www.bbc.com/news/health-25198063 As you can see, many experts of neurology would not interpret any observable brain differences in the way Gregory L. Jantz did but he is not a brain expert anyway and so aren't we. We must be very careful how we interpret research because history has shown that it can lead to discrimination and is thus dangerous. "In 1854, German anatomist Emil Huschke reported that the brain’s frontal lobe, which he called the “brain of intelligence,” is larger in men than in women. (Scientists of this era made comparable proclamations about race, claiming, for instance, that the frontal lobe is smaller in “Negros” than in Caucasians.) Today’s neuroscientists are doing something similar: using new technologies to unwittingly perpetuate stereotypes that are just as unfounded and just as damaging." http://www.popsci.com/article/science/stop-looking-“hardwired”-differences-male-and-female-brains Food for thought. |
Re: Gender Stereotypes Part I by Nobody: 12:11am On Nov 02, 2014 |
ileobatojo: I have said it right from the beginning, he wasn't familiar with the source. He quoted a source that contradicts the widely held stereotypes and therefore contradicted himself. Sorry Nonso. 1 Like |
Re: Gender Stereotypes Part I by Nobody: 12:15am On Nov 02, 2014 |
carefreewannabe: Exactly. 1 Like |
Re: Gender Stereotypes Part I by Nobody: 12:17am On Nov 02, 2014 |
ileobatojo: Thanks for your contributions. |
Re: Gender Stereotypes Part I by Shirley07: 1:17am On Nov 02, 2014 |
crackhaus:I still don't see any reasonable thing in that article you put up. I agree that female are more verbally inclined but the part I highlighted is one stup!d analogy with no biological basis. The reason why some organs in the body are more vascularized than their counterparts is due to the amount of work they undertake. For example, during excercise, liver gets more blood flow because it's needed for more sugar to be broken down to produce more energy. Hence, a female brain is supplied with more blood because it's a multi-tasking brain. On the hormones, serotonin is a feel-good hormone that helps in calming one's mood while the major work of oestrogen is for the growth of female secondary sex 'xters such as, brea$t growth, hip enlargement, womb devt, more rounded physique e.t.c. There's a reason oestrogen is administered to men who want a sex change. But let me ask you, do these transgender change the way they feel after the sex change? Although, scientists have tried to find a link between oestrogen and mood change but they haven't find any tangible basis for it. As you can see, no point in that article make sense. As a matter of fact, females has small size of brain but has more convoluted surface area which in turns increases the capacity of their retentive memory. Hence, females tends not to forget things easily. With this, we can also say forgiveness doesn't come easy with females because the memory is deeply retained within them and this contradicts the major society belief, which is 'a woman tends to forgive her husband infidelity while a man don't'. This brings us back to us being a product of our society, i.e a female have always been taught to mask her emotion despite her pains whereas the men can bring down brimstone on their wives. The truth is a female is capable of masking her emotions and this tell us that females are quite logical. Lets not also forget the feel-good hormone (serotonin), found only in females, which helps to calm one's mood. By the way, the author of that article is a dunce. |
Re: Gender Stereotypes Part I by Nobody: 9:09am On Nov 02, 2014 |
2 Likes |
Re: Gender Stereotypes Part I by Nobody: 9:19am On Nov 02, 2014 |
Re: Gender Stereotypes Part I by Nobody: 9:23am On Nov 02, 2014 |
Nonso23: And who told you that men have higher IQs? And who claims that women apply EI more frequently? And who says that EI switches off IQ? |
Re: Gender Stereotypes Part I by Nobody: 9:28am On Nov 02, 2014 |
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