asalimpo:


dyu hav to get sarky un necessarily or ur tongue is itching with insults?
Who told you they were under d law? Give ur facts .

What does "Jesus era" mean?
Or ar u implying that all not in the NT were under d law?

Nothing cud b farther from d truth.
State your facts,if you can.

If ur not som1 who can reason logically and debate intelligently, just slide by.(most of u christian posters here are in these category.)

Otherwise, make ur case.

What amuses me most about u is that, all ur comments & people's counter comments to urs, are a reflection of ur daftness & outright ignorance of the Bible. Jesus' era is the New testament era,which we(christians)his followers are basing our faith in God, on. Mathew 1:21: And he she shall bring forth a son and thou shall call his name JESUS: For he shall SAVE his people from their sins.Hebrews 7:19: For the LAW made nothing perfect,but the bringing in of a BETTER HOPE(JESUS)did;by the which we draw nigh unto God.verse 23: By so much was Jesus made a SURETY of a better testament.Verse 27: Who needeth NOT daily,as those high preists(of old) to offer up sacrifices,first for his own sins,and then for the people's:for HE did ONCE,when HE OFFERED up HIMSELF. Hebrews 8:7; For if that FIRST covenant(old testament)had been FAULTLESS,then should no PLACE have been sought for the SECOND(New Testament).Hebrews 9:1;Then verily the FIRST COVENANT had also ordinances of divine service and a WORLDLY sanctuary. EPhesians 2:8-9 For by GRACE are ye saved through FAITH; and that not of yourselves:it is the gift of God,9:Not of WORKS,lest any man should boast. Abraham was under the law,thus lived in the era of the old testament.Jesus Christ was born in the lineage of JUDA who had no bussiness with priesthood (Hebrews7:14.) It was only the Levites who were empowered to collect tithes (food,animals etc)from their brethren (Hebrews 7:5). So from the above scriptures,Jesus had nothing to do with collection of tithes becos he was'nt a Levite,and he never enforced it in the Bible. Paying of tithes with a hidden or obvious hope of amassing bountifully is covertousness which God Seriously detests,& becos God is no author of confusion,he only honours His own words and not what greedy 'SHEPHERDS twist and brainwash their flock with for selfish reasons.Ur works can't save u,only FAITH in God through Jesus, can(EPhE 2:8-9). LAST BULLET: if the One we follow(JESUS CHRIST) did'nt enforce TITHE paying,why should we pay it? That's a question for you to answer cos u're arguing like u're in the middle of a dreamland & unnecessrily displaying high level of ignorance & petty anger over an issue that's within common sense.Go & read ur Bible & stop fooling urself!!

Hehehe! Even in your financial difficulties, You still have money for court case! Kai!!! There's nothing frustration wouldn't cause. But the truth be told, the church no try shaa!

Kasala dan wear trouser

d3lko2i:
Can the man also return the spiritual, social and other services and benefits he got both from the Church and from God for the 15 years?

Can he pay or find a way to compensate God, the pastor and other members who voluntarily sang, cleaned the chairs he sat on, played musical instruments, visited or called him when he couldn't make it to church due to illness or any other reason, counseled him when he had issues, taught his children virtues, values and morals, and many other services and benefits for 15 years?


Was he forced to attend the church? Was he forced to make those 'donations'? Was he forced to give the freewill offerings? Was he forced to pay his tithes?

When you give to Orphanages and other non-profit organisations can you go back to demand for your donations from Charity?

The 'man' is not serious, immature and probably just acting out of frustration!

But the same church that taught him all these virtues and morals abandoned him!

D man is faithless! if he is into financial problem, den he shud pray ad look up to God not d church. He has no rite to demand for wt he has given to God. Dt tithe is nt
even enough for d air he breathes. Who gave him d air he breathes? He shud go on his knee ad pray for God's forgiveness.

enkay4love:
What amuses me most about u is that, all ur comments & people's counter comments to urs, are a reflection of ur daftness & outright ignorance of the Bible. Jesus' era is the New testament era,which we(christians)his followers are basing our faith in God, on. Mathew 1:21: And he she shall bring forth a son and thou shall call his name JESUS: For he shall SAVE his people from their sins.Hebrews 7:19: For the LAW made nothing perfect,but the bringing in of a BETTER HOPE(JESUS)did;by the which we draw nigh unto God.verse 23: By so much was Jesus made a SURETY of a better testament.Verse 27: Who needeth NOT daily,as those high preists(of old) to offer up sacrifices,first for his own sins,and then for the people's:for HE did ONCE,when HE OFFERED up HIMSELF. Hebrews 8:7; For if that FIRST covenant(old testament)had been FAULTLESS,then should no PLACE have been sought for the SECOND(New Testament).Hebrews 9:1;Then verily the FIRST COVENANT had also ordinances of divine service and a WORLDLY sanctuary. EPhesians 2:8-9 For by GRACE are ye saved through FAITH; and that not of yourselves:it is the gift of God,9:Not of WORKS,lest any man should boast. Abraham was under the law,thus lived in the era of the old testament.Jesus Christ was born in the lineage of JUDA who had no bussiness with priesthood (Hebrews7:14.) It was only the Levites who were empowered to collect tithes (food,animals etc)from their brethren (Hebrews 7:5). So from the above scriptures,Jesus had nothing to do with collection of tithes becos he was'nt a Levite,and he never enforced it in the Bible. Paying of tithes with a hidden or obvious hope of amassing bountifully is covertousness which God Seriously detests,& becos God is no author of confusion,he only honours His own words and not what greedy 'SHEPHERDS twist and brainwash their flock with for selfish reasons.Ur works can't save u,only FAITH in God through Jesus, can(EPhE 2:8-9). LAST BULLET: if the One we follow(JESUS CHRIST) did'nt enforce TITHE paying,why should we pay it? That's a question for you to answer cos u're arguing like u're in the middle of a dreamland & unnecessrily displaying high level of ignorance & petty anger over an issue that's within common sense.Go & read ur Bible & stop fooling urself!!

you this pepper seller!
See wat you scribbled.
Drivel sandwiched btwn insults.

For your information,the solution isnt reading d bible but rightly dividg d word of truth.

Even if u want to, you cant make a decent argumnt on matters like this. Neither can catty minds like you digest a detailled argument.
You'll just sweep them aside with a dismissing wave as worthless.

You argue on tithes yet you dont know when the law was issued?
You know nothing about the present day ministry of Jesus.
You know nothing of d greater more stringent demands of the New covenant which would negate all arguments to a reduction of tax burden on christians to God's work.
You hav no foundation.
Yet in your uncouthness you issue cheap insults like an authority.


"Wisdom is too high for a fool"
go get an education and learn to be civil. Disagreeing on a point of view doesnt mean spewg insults.
Now begone!

asalimpo:

you this pepper seller!
See wat you scribbled.
Drivel sandwiched btwn insults.

For your information,the solution isnt reading d bible but rightly dividg d word of truth.

Even if u want to, you cant make a decent argumnt on matters like this. Neither can catty minds like you digest a detailled argument.
You'll just sweep them aside with a dismissing wave as worthless.

You argue on tithes yet you dont know when the law was issued?
You know nothing about the present day ministry of Jesus.
You know nothing of d greater more stringent demands of the New covenant which would negate all arguments to a reduction of tax burden on christians to God's work.
You hav no foundation.
Yet in your uncouthness you issue cheap insults like an authority.


"Wisdom is too high for a fool"
go get an education and learn to be civil. Disagreeing on a point of view doesnt mean spewg insults.
Now begone!

ur a big fooooool for resorting to insults when I hav'nt even started spitting them on u.Ur arguments are as illogical and CHEAP as ur debased mind. I thot I was even correcting a normal misguided human species,little did I know I was engaging a collosal psychiatric case.The next time u quote me,I'll come bundle u to a psychiatric home,Idiot!

I say: its a great idea, lets stand together, I have never heard it done before, the cost of tithing could be used for a great cause.
One can't fight this alone without prayer-are we "not" the body of Christ.
Did Jesus "not" say we come up against the principalities and against the darkness of this world.
Is this "not" the argument we none tithers would agree on.
A high court may open a door for God's children to "believe" the truth.
Ephesians 6:13- Therefore taken the hole armour of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, put on the breastplate of righteousness, having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace, taking the shield of faith, take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; praying always with all prayer and supplication in the spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints, and for me that utterance may be given to me, that I may open my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of the Gospel.
This man is "not" standing alone, He had found the truth.
The truth will set you free.
John 10:10-The thief does "not" come except to steal and to kill and destroy.
Satan will always use his children,
who "stole" monies with the tithing messages,
"killing" the minds of the innocent,
destroying God's children-twisting Bible verses-causing arguments within the body of Christ, men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that Godliness is a means of Gain.{Money}

The body of Christ with all prayer can only stand for victory.

d3lko2i:
Can the man also return the spiritual, social and other services and benefits he got both from the Church and from God for the 15 years?

Can he pay or find a way to compensate God, the pastor and other members who voluntarily sang, cleaned the chairs he sat on, played musical instruments, visited or called him when he couldn't make it to church due to illness or any other reason, counseled him when he had issues, taught his children virtues, values and morals, and many other services and benefits for 15 years?


Was he forced to attend the church? Was he forced to make those 'donations'? Was he forced to give the freewill offerings? Was he forced to pay his tithes?

When you give to Orphanages and other non-profit organisations can you go back to demand for your donations from Charity?

The 'man' is not serious, immature and probably just acting out of frustration!

Has a ghanian preached to you before please f fear God Na why

brocab:
I say: its a great idea, lets stand together, I have never heard it done before, the cost of tithing could be used for a great cause.
One can't fight this alone without prayer-are we "not" the body of Christ.
Did Jesus "not" say we come up against the principalities and against the darkness of this world.
Is this "not" the argument we none tithers would agree on.
A high court may open a door for God's children to "believe" the truth.
Ephesians 6:13- Therefore taken the hole armour of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, put on the breastplate of righteousness, having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace, taking the shield of faith, take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; praying always with all prayer and supplication in the spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints, and for me that utterance may be given to me, that I may open my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of the Gospel.
This man is "not" standing alone, He had found the truth.
The truth will set you free.
John 10:10-The thief does "not" come except to steal and to kill and destroy.
Satan will always use his children,
who "stole" monies with the tithing messages,
"killing" the minds of the innocent,
destroying God's children-twisting Bible verses-causing arguments within the body of Christ, men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that Godliness is a means of Gain.{Money}

The body of Christ with all prayer can only stand for victory.

Your point being?

If it is better to give than to recieve, how come the Naija pastor-preneurs do not give free education, subsidised healthcare, help with accommodation etc... to their flock.

A court hearing, could stop a revolution, men of corrupt minds destitute of the truth who suppose that Godliness is the means of Gain.
A court hearing, could open up the truth about Christ.
Millions Saved.
A court hearing, could change Men and Women who are proud knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words.

gbodimowo:




Your point being?

enkay4love:
ur a big fooooool for resorting to insults when I hav'nt even started spitting them on u.Ur arguments are as illogical and CHEAP as ur debased mind. I thot I was even correcting a normal misguided human species,little did I know I was engaging a collosal psychiatric case.The next time u quote me,I'll come bundle u to a psychiatric home,Idiot!

You ask a fellow pertinent questions about hollow points he raised.
He starts name calling and diverting the issue with needless points that have no basis.

Like I said, the Bible knowledge he claims to possess does not go beyond Noah and the ark.

please pay the lonely soul no attention and go about discussing with saner folk.
someone who claims that Abraham was before Christ and that there would be no Christianity without Abraham (who has refused to answer what the essence of John 1:1-4 in that light thereby preaching heresy) should not be involved in discussions that normal human beings participate in.

Up Living Faith Church.

2 Corinthians 9:7
Proverbs 3:9
Luke 11:42
Malachi 3:8-10
Genesis 14:20
Matthew 6:1-4
Luke 18:12
1 Corinthians 16:1-2
Deuteronomy 14:22-29
Hebrews 7:1-9
Luke 14:12-14
Deuteronomy 26:12
Leviticus 27:30-34
Numbers 18:20-24
Proverbs 19:1-29
Numbers 18:26-28
Leviticus 27:30
Acts 4:32-35
Numbers 18:21
Hebrews 7:1-28
1 Corinthians 16:2
Psalm 91:1-16
Psalm 24:1
Leviticus 27:32
John 3:1-16:33
Isaiah 1:1-31
Galatians 3:10-11
Luke 12:33
Psalm 50:7
Revelation 13:15-18
Psalm 118:19-29
John 3:16
Malachi 1:1-4:6

enkay4love:
ur a big fooooool for resorting to insults when I hav'nt even started spitting them on u.Ur arguments are as illogical and CHEAP as ur debased mind. I thot I was even correcting a normal misguided human species,little did I know I was engaging a collosal psychiatric case.The next time u quote me,I'll come bundle u to a psychiatric home,Idiot!

Haaba! U don't need to call anyone names because he shares a different view. We as Christians are to tolerate other people's views without spewing abuses,pls control ur temper. thanks

SeanBeezy:
But the same church that taught him all these virtues and morals abandoned him!

If it's true, then it's unfortunate!

But there are (at least) two sides to every story, and we haven't heard the side of the church

StarBoard:

You ask a fellow pertinent questions about hollow points he raised.
He starts name calling and diverting the issue with needless points that have no basis.

Like I said, the Bible knowledge he claims to possess does not go beyond Noah and the ark.

please pay the lonely soul no attention and go about discussing with saner folk.
someone who claims that Abraham was before Christ and that there would be no Christianity without Abraham (who has refused to answer what the essence of John 1:1-4 in that light thereby preaching heresy) should not be involved in discussions that normal human beings participate in.

Thank u so much 4 ur logical input.I can't even dignify his lowly rude self with any further corrective arguments.

Cheny:

Haaba! U don't need to call anyone names because he shares a different view. We as Christians are to tolerate other people's views without spewing abuses,pls control ur temper. thanks

And what gave u the audacity to jump into such nasty conclusion about me?why don't u read his earlier comments on me to realise who's actually spewing the abuses in the first place. From my comment u just reacted to with ur biased reasoning,does'nt it tell u i was reacting to the quoted comment.Its not by force to make a counter-input,if u must,read the lines carefully so u don't end up like a busy body.

What if u failed to pay for a particular month?dey ll trace u to ur home........wonderful..

StarBoard:

RCCG practices it.
They give you an envelooe where you record your payment per month. your name and your tithe number is on top of the envelope.When you want to give the tithe youask the usher for your envelope before service quoting your number and they will find it for you. You will then give your tithe in a separate box during the service.
Apparently it is for record purposes.

Trust me that is how it's done in my parish.

enkay4love:
And what gave u the audacity to jump into such nasty conclusion about me?why don't u read his earlier comments on me to realise who's actually spewing the abuses in the first place. From my comment u just reacted to with ur biased reasoning,does'nt it tell u i was reacting to the quoted comment.Its not by force to make a counter-input,if u must,read the lines carefully so u don't end up like a busy body.

Please read my 2nd comment on this topic on page6 and what I said about u and on this issue.I read every single comment right from the 1st page, I saw his comments and insults even the heated debate with the other guy and I don't share his views but I was just saying we should not respond with abuses even when provoked. Please take it easy,it's an online forum.

asalimpo:


tithe is not and will never b a fraud. First, you as an earthly citizen part with as much as 50% of your gross income to various categories of tithes and levies.
And you dont call d governmnt a fraud.
Yet a paltry 10% is gettg you guyz rabid!
If you're going by d argumnt tht tithe is OT and as such done away with,note Jesus didnt come to abolish d law but fulfill it.
E.g, the OT had laws like kill not, dont bear false witness, no graven images etc
in the NT it is fulfilled as a Love commandment.
In the OT, a man can ogle a woman and walk scot free ,in the NT its more stringent, dont even entertain d thought in ur heart.
In the OT, an eye for an eye ,in the NT, turn d other cheek!
The NT fulfillment of the OT laws are simply higher in demands. None of the OT laws just dissappeared they were replaced by higher standards.
Animal sacrifice was replaced by the ont-time sacrifice of God's Son.
Now, following that trend of logc , if tithe were 10% in OT, how much wud it b in NT? It wud simply be far higher. So all u arguing shud pay 50%

If Christ has fulfilled the law why keep it? You have not answered the question i asked you earlier; why do you pick areas of the law that has to do with finances(Tithes, firstfruits etc) and leave the rest. we need to repent from this hypocrisy and teach the right doctrines. Dont worry, God is raising an army that will chase out money changers from the church and restore the glory of the church. Some of the preachers we have today are really making the love of many to wax cold. Their god is indeed their belly. There is nothing wrong with giving to the course of the gospel but the brethren MUST not be manipulated to do so, they should not be threatened to do so! Its sad that most of these preachers now compete with each other on who appears on national TV stations more (using ur tithes n offerings) while there are many reomte areas in the core North that the gospel is yet to get to, many people are deep neck into idolatry without Christ yet they are here in the cities competing for space and the available warehouses for church services. When giving is not for evangelism and charity count me out

Cheny:

Please read my first comment on this thread and what I said about u and on this issue.I read every single comment right from the 1st page, I saw his comments and insults even the heated debate with the other guy and I don't share his views but I was just saying we should not respond with abuses even when provoked. Please take it easy,it's an online forum.

Ern...no thanks.Has'nt he realised this is an online forum b4 he commenced his baseless & rude arguments? Ur advice to my comment is biased & unnecessary,cos if u actually perused through all the comments from the start to finish,u'll realise where my reactive comment was coming from.So becos am a christian I should swallow his abuses just like that? Is he not a christian too ,who's busy spitting insults on any member here, with an opposing view to his? Pls,direct ur advice to him cos he desperately needs it.Thanks!

JUBILEE2000:


If Christ has fulfilled the law why keep it? You have not answered the question i asked you earlier; why do you pick areas of the law that has to do with finances(Tithes, firstfruits etc) and leave the rest. we need to repent from this hypocrisy and teach the right doctrines. Dont worry, God is raising an army that will chase out money changers from the church and restore the glory of the church. Some of the preachers we have today are really making the love of many to wax cold. Their god is indeed their belly. There is nothing wrong with giving to the course of the gospel but the brethren MUST not be manipulated to do so, they should not be threatened to do so! Its sad that most of these preachers now compete with each other on who appears on national TV stations more (using ur tithes n offerings) while there are many reomte areas in the core North that the gospel is yet to get to, many people are deep neck into idolatry without Christ yet they are here in the cities competing for space and the available warehouses for church services. When giving is not for evangelism and charity count me out

Even with all these sane & Bible-based facts u've raised,he'll still be arguing senselessly like a fool.

StarBoard:

RCCG practices it.
They give you an envelooe where you record your payment per month. your name and your tithe number is on top of the envelope.When you want to give the tithe youask the usher for your envelope before service quoting your number and they will find it for you. You will then give your tithe in a separate box during the service.
Apparently it is for record purposes.

Trust me that is how it's done in my parish.

My heart bleeds at the bolded above..May God not allow the gates of MAMMON prevail aginst his church.

martineverest:
What if u failed to pay for a particular month?dey ll trace u to ur home........wonderful..

The church has your details. Phone number and house address. Visitation group comes to ascertain your address once a year.

JUBILEE2000:


My heart bleeds at the bolded above..May God not allow the gates of MAMMON prevail aginst his church.

Sad but true.
I stopped attending RCCG when they started broadcasting people's names on their projector screen in line with tithe records.
They did so to someone I know simply because they wanted to clarify the figure on the cheque in the said envelope for a particular month simply because it differed from what she usually gave.

But when this same lady had earlier undergone a surgery no one asked any questions or showed sympathy. Just collecting tithe from people without taking any concerted effort to know the givers.

Win or lose...he should take the pastor to court and expose him. Why can't the church help one of its own that has come pleading for assistance? If the Bible is being quoted to collect tithes then the very Bible must also be quoted for the use of the tithes. Wasn't one of the uses to help the poor and downtrodden? The fraudster/pastor should be taken to court for embezzlement.

enkay4love:
Thank u so much 4 ur logical input.I can't even dignify his lowly rude self with any further corrective arguments.

Read through the thread and see how people are reacting to him.
My people say that if people are pointing at you and covering their noses while you are on your way to the market, you need to step into the bush and examine if the smell is coming from your trousers.

Have a great day.

JUBILEE2000:


If Christ has fulfilled the law why keep it? You have not answered the question i asked you earlier; why do you pick areas of the law that has to do with finances(Tithes, firstfruits etc) and leave the rest. we need to repent from this hypocrisy and teach the right doctrines. Dont worry, God is raising an army that will chase out money changers from the church and restore the glory of the church. Some of the preachers we have today are really making the love of many to wax cold. Their god is indeed their belly. There is nothing wrong with giving to the course of the gospel but the brethren MUST not be manipulated to do so, they should not be threatened to do so! Its sad that most of these preachers now compete with each other on who appears on national TV stations more (using ur tithes n offerings) while there are many reomte areas in the core North that the gospel is yet to get to, many people are deep neck into idolatry without Christ yet they are here in the cities competing for space and the available warehouses for church services. When giving is not for evangelism and charity count me out

But the fellow tells us that without Abraham there would be no Christ.
He implies that Abraham existed before Jesus even though John 1:1-4 tells us Christ existed before every other thing.

Why bother argue with a heretic?

Abeg run go collect ur money my guy...d pastor dey wicked o...cant even help d man in times of trouble...whats d essence of attending d church self...

StarBoard:

Sad but true.
I stopped attending RCCG when they started broadcasting people's names on their projector screen in line with tithe records.
They did so to someone I know simply because they wanted to clarify the figure on the cheque in the said envelope for a particular month simply because it differed from what she usually gave.

But when this same lady had earlier undergone a surgery no one asked any questions or showed sympathy. Just collecting tithe from people without taking any concerted effort to know the givers.

What matters to the d 21st century church most (ie Money ),mattered little to the early church.Rmber Paul's warning that wolves have crept into the church.