5minsmadness:

No surprise in this answer. Some people will never change.

Boohooooo!

Stillfire:


Boohooooo!

Awww, don't cry. Here, have a handkerchief.

SirShymex:

Lol, must those items be part of marriage rites? Why can't I just buy them for her folks separately as a gift, with no strings attached? Don't you know once you put a price on something, whoever pays that price, will both consciously/subconsciously always have a sense of ownership/entitlement?

Err, based on what I know dowry (bride price) was practised in every culture during the medieval times basically cos women back then were mostly raised to be housewives. And it's basically a form of appreciation. However, it was gradually phased out when women became more empowered. Also, we're in a consciousness where being a full housewife is no longer fashionable - and women are raised from a young age to be independent. Thus making marriage more of a partnership, based on skill set, albeit the man is still naturally the head of the family. Basically cos of what the average man offers mentally, in regards to decision making, temperament, and control - alpha male. So, don't you think putting a price on a woman's head, in this age, is somewhat degrading/disrespectful?

Anyway, in as much as I've no problem with marriage as an institution - I've always been indifferent about marriage, and it has never been my priority. Even right now, it's not even on my wish list. And perhaps, I might add it in a couple of years' time, after globetrotting. But I doubt I'll ever pay it cos I don't think I'll marry any chic I don't have the same outlook to life with. Ditto cultures/family I don't agree with. Connection is my priority in every relationship - then what I want my kids to be raised around. ;

The general belief that a man marries in not out, come what may she is expected to endure everything. I don't think it is degrading or disrespectful or meant to treat women as commodities, it is a token of appreciation for taking away a whole human being. It also signifies consent of the bride's family to release their daughter to another family.

What sense of ownership, over items that may not be up to £500? . it is just symbolic, it should not be exploitative.

In Yoruba culture, it is usually between the men. It is a way of letting the groom's family know that the men in the family are capable of making his life a living hell if need be. The more men from the bride's family present at the introductory stage the more respect for the bride and her family. Moreover, we have what we call a proper marriage. It is a thing of a pride for a woman to say I was wedded properly and for the man to boast the he took his wife in properly, which is distinguishable from baby mamas and forcefully taken wives.

I think you are over thinking the concept of bride price and marriage. We expect so much from the institution and yet we are not ready to give it our best and endure. Furthermore, your thoughts may be influenced by those around you but the truth is that each marriage is different and unique and must be addressed as such. Share the same aspirations with your choice partner, do your best, prepare for the worst and listen less to what others think (from my Grandfather)

Justfollowit:



The general belief that a man marries in not out, come what may she is expected to endure everything. I don't think it is degrading or disrespectful or meant to treat women as commodities, it is a token of appreciation for taking away a whole human being. It also signifies consent of the bride's family to release their daughter to another family.

What sense of ownership, over items that may not be up to £500? . it is just symbolic, it should not be exploitative.

In Yoruba culture, it is usually between the men. It is a way of letting the groom's family know that the men in the family are capable of making his life a living hell if need be. The more men from the bride's family present at the introductory stage the more respect for the bride and her family. Moreover, we have what we call a proper marriage. It is a thing of a pride for a woman to say I was wedded properly and for the man to boast the he took his wife in properly, which is distinguishable from baby mamas and forcefully taken wives.

I think you are over thinking the concept of bride price and marriage. We expect so much from the institution and yet we are not ready to give it our best and endure. Furthermore, your thoughts may be influenced by those around you but the truth is that each marriage is different and unique and must be addressed as such. Share the same aspirations with your choice partner, do your best, prepare for the worst and listen less to what others think (from my Grandfather)

@ 1st bolded, why do you consider a woman getting married as being taken away and why is the grooms parents not appreciated?

@ 2nd bolded, I understand exactly what you mean by proper marriage and how it is a thing of pride. This is the reason why even women who do not support the idea of bride price still somehow end up having their bride price paid if it is part of their culture because without it, she is not considered married. However, what I would like to see in the future is a way where someone can be considered properly married without any bride price being paid.

babygirlfl:


@ 1st bolded, why do you consider a woman getting married as being taken away and why is the grooms parents not appreciated?

@ 2nd bolded, I understand exactly what you mean by proper marriage and how it is a thing of pride. This is the reason why even women who do not support the idea of bride price still somehow end up having their bride price paid if it is part of their culture because without it, she is not considered married. However, what I would like to see in the future is a way where someone can be considered properly married without any bride price being paid.

Because She becomes her husband's not the other way round. At this point you were right at the first instance where you mentioned the way the family is structured. Newly wedded couples live separately from their parents and the family home and expenses are borne by the two.

You will still be considered properly married though with or without it. It is a symbolic marriage rite but not important. Times have changed but I am all for it, my bride price must be paid even if it is just N1 and I have got younger brothers who are already telling me what they will ask for. . and it is not such a big deal to be discarded.

Funny money paid to a groom's family is called dowry and money to a bride's family is bride price...

If the 'token' collected cannot replace the daughter or pay her worth, why collect it in the first place...

Ladies the best way for your family to retain their respect especially in areas where bride price is high like my side and those elders don't listen to excuse is for your family to pay for the traditional marriage ceremony.

There's no way the bride price list will get to half of what your family will spend on the ceremony. At least the grooms family will also know that your family doesn't lack anything.
That's what we did.

Seeing the way some of those elders can be so mean and evil about bride price issues, you will pity your parents. Some don't even know your name but will be the loudest in demanding their 'rights' for coming to take their 'daughter'.
If you're not careful, they will ruin your day and reduce you to tears on your happy day.
Sanction and/or ostracize your parents even. Mean ppl I tell you.

I believe when that generation of oldies start dying off, stuff like that will become greatly modified But I sincerely wish it will go extinct.
We can have traditional weddings(which I love btw) without paying anyone elder or not for a daughter they didn't even raise.

Justfollowit:


Because She becomes her husband's not the other way round. At this point you were right at the first instance where you mentioned the way the family is structured. Newly wedded couples live separately from their parents and the family home and expenses are borne by the two.

You will still be considered properly married though with or without it. It is a symbolic marriage rite but not important. Times have changed but I am all for it, my bride price must be paid even if it is just N1 and I have got younger brothers who are already telling me what they will ask for. . and it is not such a big deal to be discarded.

Ok Thanks. I think we both see it differently. I see two people coming together in marriage not a wife becoming the husband's.

I think in some cultures, you are considered married only after payment of the dowry and is the most important part of the marriage rites.

Justfollowit:

The general belief that a man marries in not out, come what may she is expected to endure everything. I don't think it is degrading or disrespectful or meant to treat women as commodities, it is a token of appreciation for taking away a whole human being. It also signifies consent of the bride's family to release their daughter to another family.

What sense of ownership, over items that may not be up to £500? . it is just symbolic, it should not be exploitative.

In Yoruba culture, it is usually between the men. It is a way of letting the groom's family know that the men in the family are capable of making his life a living hell if need be. The more men from the bride's family present at the introductory stage the more respect for the bride and her family. Moreover, we have what we call a proper marriage. It is a thing of a pride for a woman to say I was wedded properly and for the man to boast the he took his wife in properly, which is distinguishable from baby mamas and forcefully taken wives.

I think you are over thinking the concept of bride price and marriage. We expect so much from the institution and yet we are not ready to give it our best and endure. Furthermore, your thoughts may be influenced by those around you but the truth is that each marriage is different and unique and must be addressed as such. Share the same aspirations with your choice partner, do your best, prepare for the worst and listen less to what others think (from my Grandfather)

1). Even if you it's marrying in, that doesn't negate the fact that women these days don't necessarily marry the groom's family. They marry the guy, maintain cordiality with their spouse's family (the decent ones - some destroy the relationship between their husbands and their parents), and stick with their own family. The only mere appendage that signifies "marrying out" is the change of surname. So, basically, what appreciation do they need from something that's more or less a two-way street?

2). Ownership comes with anything that's got a price on it. Once you pay for something, it becomes yours. Yes, I know Yorubas don't pay much, and I doubt it's even up to £500. Though I've seen some utter ridiculous lists on this forum that cracked me up.I dunno if it's symbolic, but I just don't agree on putting a price on something that's priceless, especially when it's based on something that our progression has moved away from. Full housewives aren't fashionable anymore. And most guys wouldn't even want one cos today's world is about shared responsibilities.

3). Can you please expatiate further on how "proper" marriage would help keep the union intact forever compared to a simple marriage? I've got a cousin who got married about three years' ago, and it was even more than proper. Overkill in my opinion cos I know I went to three events and I was part of everything, including the Church one, and it was also on Ben TV. However, over Xmas, I discovered that they have been having problems for time - and it got to a crescendo during the yuletide with: MILs disrespecting each other while sticking up for their kids; wife talking smacking to aunts; uncles having a go at everyone etc.. That shiit got me troubled, and I was just sitting there confused cos I've been around the both of them since age 14 (The wife is my friend). Then you look at those who only did just simple court wedding, and are very happy together. Evidently, you have to question if the ends justify the means. That's basically why I'm not really into all these "symbolic" extras cos most time - they're just a figment of imagination - and nothing to do with reality

4). Lastly, it's not like I'm trying to change your mind. I'm just trying to get someone to proper explain the whole concept to me. Folks in black diaspora don't pay bride price when they get marriage. Does that also mean all their marriages aren't proper?

Dowry is also bride price. And in Islam for example, bride price is basically dowry (mahr).

This is the dictionary for reference:

- : a gift of money or property by a man to or for his bride.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dowry

Justfollowit:


Because She becomes her husband's not the other way round. At this point you were right at the first instance where you mentioned the way the family is structured. Newly wedded couples live separately from their parents and the family home and expenses are borne by the two.

You will still be considered properly married though with or without it. It is a symbolic marriage rite but not important. Times have changed but I am all for it, my bride price must be paid even if it is just N1 and I have got younger brothers who are already telling me what they will ask for. . and it is not such a big deal to be discarded.

Darn! You if you gat it like buffie the body - imma pay £1 billi as bride price.

Nonso23:


Why do you eat rice with a certain set of cutlery especially during public outings??

Since the main aim is to get the food into the stomach and the bare hands are very convenient and 'handy' why bother with the forks, spoons, and knives

Apples and Akara

Your analogy would be wonderful if we said scrap traditional wedding ceremony afteral, the important thing is parent's consent whether white, traditional, black or blue wedding, no problem.

Bare hands is not convenient and very unhygienic besides, itis nnot presentable. Try again later...

Some Yorubas do not collect BP because they will tell you plainly that they are NOT selling their daughter

SirShymex:
Dowry is also bride price. And in Islam for example, bride price is basically dowry (mahr).

This is the dictionary for reference:

- : a gift of money or property by a man to or for his bride.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dowry

Thanks

I thought it was the male version because of Indians

What is the difference between BP and dowry?

cococandy:
Ladies the best way for your family to retain their respect especially in areas where bride price is high like my side and those elders don't listen to excuse is for your family to pay for the traditional marriage ceremony.

There's no way the bride price list will get to half of what your family will spend on the ceremony. At least the grooms family will also know that your family doesn't lack anything.
That's what we did.

Seeing the way some of those elders can be so mean and evil about bride price issues, you will pity your parents. Some don't even know your name but will be the loudest in demanding their 'rights' for coming to take their 'daughter'.
If you're not careful, they will ruin your day and reduce you to tears on your happy day.
Sanction and/or ostracize your parents even. Mean ppl I tell you.

I believe when that generation of oldies start dying off, stuff like that will become greatly modified But I sincerely wish it will go extinct.
We can have traditional weddings(which I love btw) without paying anyone elder or not for a daughter they didn't even raise.

It's worse when after hefty BP, the husband's side foot All the wedding bills.

Watched one crazy nollywood film where they had crazy BP. One man started treating his wife like shit after. Afteral, he bought her

bukatyne:


Thanks

I thought it was the male version because of Indians

What is the difference between BP and dowry?

I think dowry covers both sides, while bride price is basically just for the bride.

It's just like saying "homosexual" and "lesbian." Homosexual covers both sexes, while lesbian is basically for females.

SirShymex:


I think dowry covers both sides, while bride price is basically just for the bride.

It's just like saying "homosexual" and "lesbian." Homosexual covers both sexes, while lesbian is basically for females.

Thanks

Learnt something

Nonso23:


The analogy is very valid.
You were questioning the logic behind paying the bride price since no human life has a price tag to it.
I was in return questioning the logic behind using spoons when the hands are more convenient, faster and 'handy'.
The answer would be: the rationale behind the two is non-existent. They are simply one of the colors to our existence as a people.

Hands can be easily washed and are way faster and more comfortable for eating foods (from experience here )
How about meats Cutlery vs 'the versatile 5 phalenges'

Those Yorubas might not take nada from you but as a groom you dare not show up empty handed at their doorsteps to ask their daughter's hand in marriage.
That is one commendable modification.

The groom's family is given a list of stuffs like oil, rice etc depending on the parents which he brings that day.

The bride's family is responsible for feeding through out the day and her family also shares a token to the groom's family like bag of salt, cartons of biscuits and sweets, fruits etc. Depending on them also

Nobody is bought and sold.

SirShymex:

Sorry, I have been really busy. I will reply you soonest.

Justfollowit:


Sorry, I have been really busy. I will reply you soonest.

Alright, love.

Take ya time - I'm still about.

aisha2:


1. Why must the parents of the girl ask for payment to raising their daughter and the boys parents don't? Dont they both get to enjoy the marriage? If he pays and highly for getting a wife like an item is that a bedrock for equality?

Its just like showing courtesy by " doffing of the hat" its was done to show respect to the women for their ability to bear children.

2. If its a payment for appretiation why haggle over it like you are pricing some cow
After pricing the goods and the payment is agreed on just like a cow the good in the case bride is asked to walk round and so people can appreciate what they bought.

This is something you have to look at from a case to case basis, as cultures differ. The reason why some cultures ask for more bride price is to make sure the husband doesn't pay it in full, in case the husband abuses the wife, they can always take her back anytime since he never finished off marrying her. While some ask more simply because of greed.

3. Apart from being cultural what purpose does a bride price really serve in todays world when we women say we want to be treated equally?

being treated equally also requires creating a balance. As an African i can still uphold some of my cultural values and still embrace other western influenced values, to adapt to changes in our society.

Equal treatment before the law does not necessarily mean that if you murder my child i should treat you the same way and go ahead to murder your child. If someone treats you unjustly you let the law bring justice, you do not put justice in your own hands. Equal treatment does not always necessarily mean do me i do you, but doing things in a manner that creates a balance between persons.

Because a man supports equality, it does not mean that he should go to work in a skirt and heels because he believes he is equal to a woman. Everything comes with a limit in order to avoid absurdity.

If from the beginning his parents don't ask for payment for him and ours do, are we going into marriage on the same equal wave length?

A married woman who believes she should be treated equally with a man, will still let her child take her husband's surname instead of hers. Its does not necessarily equate to unequal treatment, its simply creating a balance and it avoids chaos and absurdity. Giving her children her husband's surname will not stop the children from being hers too.

Imagine if every married woman had to battle out in court as to whose surname her children had to take, it would create a lot of chaos (although it would make lawyers richer ) The practice does not negatively affect the husband, wife or the children, so we might as well stick to it.

But if you look as something like employment. A woman can be negatively affected if she is not allowed to work (because of her gender) in a particular field even though she has the qualifications or skill to work in that field.

You also need to take into the negative effects of a particular practice and the need for change, to determine is something constitute as unequal treatment and there is therefore need for a change or if something is simply placed to create balance and avoid unnecessary problems.

5. Does inlaw relationship end in a day? Is it not a life time? If we say its appreciation shouldn't it be voluntary?

It has become voluntary in most African communities where both families will have to discuss and agree on whether to follow the custom or abandon it.

If the families cannot reach an agreement the couple can always elope and leave everyone else to their wahala

Should we demand payment upfront and fix a price?

In some cultures its not paid upfront, its paid over the duration of the marriage. It will simply depend on what both families have agreed upon.

Should appreciation for raising our own kids necessarily be in cash and goods? Is a simple thank you and a promise to treat your daughter well not enough?

it could be enough, but it also requires abandoning tradition and culture in a way, which distinguishes a certain group of people from others.

6. Whose responsibility is it to raise our own kids? Isn't it ours as parents? Why do we then ask someone else to refund us

i guess it does go beyond showing appreciation for raising up your own female children, it also goes back to the child bearing issue, when children are born in a marriage they become part of their father's family. The husband's gift to his wife's family is the bride price and the wife's gift to her husband's family is children.

Im assuming thats the main reason why a husband will always demands for his bride price back after returning his wife because she failed to give him children during their marriage.

[quote author=SirShymex post=29374973]

1). Even if you it's marrying in, that doesn't negate the fact that women these days don't necessarily marry the groom's family. They marry the guy, maintain cordiality with their spouse's family (the decent ones - some destroy the relationship between their husbands and their parents), and stick with their own family. The only mere appendage that signifies "marrying out" is the change of surname. So, basically, what appreciation do they need from something that's more or less a two-way street?

True to that but not in most cases. By these days you are referring to diasporan marriages but that does not hold for a place like Nigeria where your husband's family members live close-by unless there is some internal conflict the wife automatically becomes a member of the husband's family, family in its larger context not just with a change in the last name, the husband's family comes first before yours.

Who cares about the husband's family in a marriage. It is all about the woman.

2). Ownership comes with anything that's got a price on it. Once you pay for something, it becomes yours. Yes, I know Yorubas don't pay much, and I doubt it's even up to £500. Though I've seen some utter ridiculous lists on this forum that cracked me up.I dunno if it's symbolic, but I just don't agree on putting a price on something that's priceless, especially when it's based on something that our progression has moved away from. Full housewives aren't fashionable anymore. And most guys wouldn't even want one cos today's world is about shared responsibilities.

It is ownership in a way (Hate to admit that you are right ), in Yoruba for example, its translation denotes ownership. Bride price is owo ori in Yoruba, Owo ori meaning money for a head / bride price and the husband is usually refers to as olowo ori mi ( the owner of my bride price). yet, if you consider the first point, a woman family is her father's and when she is given away she becomes her husband's within the marriage context. Despite the denotation, it had little influence on how a man treated this wife or her attitude towards him, it never stopped a woman from leaving and the husband could ask for a refund. However the gradual changes to the traditional family structure will obliterate bride price in future.

Maybe in the diaspora but in an average family in Nigeria-The women work full-time yet they are also full-time housewives, they clean, cook, wash, bathe the kids, ensure their assignments are done, as for the men they work, wash the cars if they are wealthy enough and made sure the kids stay on track, help out once in a while. All other responsibilities like gardening, fixing stuffs are left to the professionals. The relief comes when the kids are old enough to carry out some chores or the family is sufficiently rich to afford washing machine, blender, oven, 24-hrs water and electricity supply, maid and private tutors.

3). Can you please expatiate further on how "proper" marriage would help keep the union intact forever compared to a simple marriage? I've got a cousin who got married about three years' ago, and it was even more than proper. Overkill in my opinion cos I know I went to three events and I was part of everything, including the Church one, and it was also on Ben TV. However, over Xmas, I discovered that they have been having problems for time - and it got to a crescendo during the yuletide with: MILs disrespecting each other while sticking up for their kids; wife talking smacking to aunts; uncles having a go at everyone etc.. That shiit got me troubled, and I was just sitting there confused cos I've been around the both of them since age 14 (The wife is my friend). Then you look at those who only did just simple court wedding, and are very happy together. Evidently, you have to question if the ends justify the means. That's basically why I'm not really into all these "symbolic" extras cos most time - they're just a figment of imagination - and nothing to do with reality

Proper marriage means marriage done by adhering to important marriage rites including the funfair and bride price. The time, money and energy dedicated to it would be normally different from those ho got married because of some other factors like pregnancy outside wedlock, they are considered rushed because of the disgrace. hence, you cannot compare a lady who waited and the one who was rushed, their status is very different, even in the husband's family it will be a point of reference when there is discord and the value of bride price will be different and in most cases for those who did not wait, it may not be paid. The situation has changed, the society is more liberal towards pregnant brides and babymamas .

As for the owanbe, if the bride price is disregarded to make up for the change in family structure you cannot escape the importance of having a big wedding. most black families are still family oriented with lots of uncles and aunties you wouldn't want to make enemies of. The disagreements though rare are inconsequential where family is concerned, wedding ceremony is about you and your extended family, it will be an act of selfishness to exclude the family. Lol at the three events, you have the the introduction, white wedding/church wedding, engagement ceremony with the traditional wedding, in my opinion white wedding should be scraped, what is the significance of having two weddings of different cultures, I ain't white I will rather have my 'traditional' wedding in the church if I were a Christian. And both the introduction and engagement will be combined.

4). Lastly, it's not like I'm trying to change your mind. I'm just trying to get someone to proper explain the whole concept to me. Folks in black diaspora don't pay bride price when they get marriage. Does that also mean all their marriages aren't proper?

I know you are not tying to change my mind but you have succeeded in waning my excitation

The family structure and the idea of shared responsibilities in the diaspora and among the rich is different, I personally wouldn't generalise.

Justfollowit:
.

Before I start off: I'll just say me being averse on paying a price attached to a next person probably subconsciously stems from my vast knowledge of slavery; its dark history; and how I t has perpetually destroyed a race of people. Coupled with the fact that the "symbolic" thing folks attach to the appendage culture, looks more like a sham/scam - and a thing of the mind, since what happens during marriage itself, has moved on from the traditional way. Just so you know: I like African culture a lot, however, I also like dealing with reality. Especially when it comes to aspects of culture that are more or less, on the peripheral, and not the nucleus. So, basically, that's the perspective I'm looking at it from

Anyway, I'll reply by numbering each of your quotes:

1). I honestly doubt that's the way it's in Nigeria, based on the rhetoric I read on here. However, if that's how things are still being done in Nigeria (which I doubt), they might as well keep the culture in Nigeria, since it's different out here. Wives operate differently out here. And more reason why I don't think I owe anyone a penny.

2). If it's ownership, how come these women don't act it? You have got women who kick their husbands out of the house all the time. Women who give their husbands curfews. Women who neither cook nor do house chores etc.. Yet men still have to pay for an "ownership" that isn't even there - that's a big scam right there. If you can't obey the authority, and play the role the bride price is meant to be for - don't take the money then.

3). Proper marriage is a thing of the mind, IMO. The most important thing is staying with the woman, treating her like a queen, and making sure she's happy at all times. And that makes the means and all the "proper marriage" stuff basically pointless.

4). Lol, I'm not "waning your excitation." Err, if I can claim ownership of you, then I won't mind paying the bride price since that's what you want. But if I can't get what I'm paying for, what's the point? Just thinking out loud here.

This is a pretty sensitive issue for me because in my culture we give the man family a dowry as it symbolizes my property in the marriage. The more we give, the more affluent we are supposed to be. However, if my man ever chooses to pop the question(he better lol), will his family accept our payment? Especially since I noticed that African men tend to be quite _egotistical ... But the thought isn't too disrespect the family of the husband, but they may take receiving ny things as an insult like they can't take care of me... Hmmmm but if I want my marriage to be legitimate in my family eyes, it must be given.

vivalableue:
This is a pretty sensitive issue for me because in my culture we give the man family a dowry as it symbolizes my property in the marriage. The more we give, the more affluent we are supposed to be. However, if my man ever chooses to pop the question(he better lol), will his family accept our payment? Especially since I noticed that African men tend to be quite _egotistical ... But the thought isn't too disrespect the family of the husband, but they may take receiving ny things as an insult like they can't take care of me... Hmmmm but if I want my marriage to be legitimate in my family eyes, it must be given.

African men may be egocentric but that does not corode the fact that they are understanding n appreciate other cultures. it doesn't spell hell to d fact that there are other tribes in d world n they are enlightened enuf to appreciate diverse marital norms.


After all, d cannery that lives d homested to fraternize with d eagle, have no fear of high altitude flight

Ehmm, sorry to ask, buh what exactly do u guys give? Money ? Wrapper Boxes? Gold ?
N if you guys pay d dowry to his parents, how does it symbolise your property in d marriage since itz his family that end up squandering oops, using it?

HARDDON:


African men may be egocentric but that does not corode the fact that they are understanding n appreciate other cultures. it doesn't spell hell to d fact that there are other tribes in d world n they are enlightened enuf to appreciate diverse marital norms.


After all, d cannery that lives d homested to fraternize with d eagle, have no fear of high altitude flight

Ehmm, sorry to ask, buh what exactly do u guys give? Money ? Wrapper Boxes? Gold ?
N if you guys pay d dowry to his parents, how does it symbolise your property in d marriage since itz his family that end up squandering oops, using it?

Lol don't worry, it's his humongous pride that made me fall in love with him in the first place... I just can't imagine him with a bruised ego lol...

Ummm well let's just say that if you want to marry up, like from caste or class, you put on a show of display. Jewellery, property(cars, etc), money, saris like heavy ones, are all the things you'd find in a typical rich bride's dowry. Mine may not be as elaborate, but definitely my car, business, money is to be mine on the case of my husband death, I still have property to support me. My children should be provided for by their (his) family, but my property remains my own. Of course he can will things over to me and the practice is quite antiquated IMO.

But at least something of worth value that can accrue is to be given. Almost to say, "this is the lifestyle we gave our daughter, in fact we can give her this much stuff since we can afford to." And to assure that the next family won't squander it since the family receiving sold keep it in trust, they are so rich they don't need to touch her property..

SirShymex

1). I honestly doubt that's the way it's in Nigeria, based on the rhetoric I read on here. However, if that's how things are still being done in Nigeria (which I doubt), they might as well keep the culture in Nigeria, since it's different out here. Wives operate differently out here. And more reason why I don't think I owe anyone a penny.

It is actually in most homes but it depends on the socio-economic status of the woman and her family. That is why we have women who cannot leave their marital homes because their fathers forbid it. I have witnessed several accounts of family dispute arbitration, where clearly the husband was in the wrong, but somehow the bride's family will find a way of apportioning the larger part of the blame to the woman- because she has to stay in her husband's house come what may. Or father-in-laws that cannot visit their daughters marital homes unnecessarily or stay there for long unless if necessary because she has already been given out.

Of course, you do not owe anyone a penny. It is in your discretion but do not be surprise if your fiancee's family decides not to release their daughter

2). If it's ownership, how come these women don't act it? You have got women who kick their husbands out of the house all the time. Women who give their husbands curfews. Women who neither cook nor do house chores etc.. Yet men still have to pay for an "ownership" that isn't even there - that's a big scam right there. If you can't obey the authority, and play the role the bride price is meant to be for - don't take the money then.

You can always ask for a refund and return their daughters

3). Proper marriage is a thing of the mind, IMO. The most important thing is staying with the woman, treating her like a queen, and making sure she's happy at all times. And that makes the means and all the "proper marriage" stuff basically pointless.

It is culture

4). Lol, I'm not "waning your excitation." Err, if I can claim ownership of you, then I won't mind paying the bride price since that's what you want. But if I can't get what I'm paying for, what's the point? Just thinking out loud here.

Nope, not me. You will be giving a token in exchange for my family's consent

SirShymex

The practice is going to die out, it is amatter of time. I got this online.

Marriage is a family affair- between the two families of both the boy and the girl. There are about six stages involved in the marriage ceremony. These are time for searching, Ifa consultation, releasing the voice, (isihun) engagement, idana, and the wedding proper. Time for searching involve the period when both the groom-to-be search for potential wife. There are usually common meeting points for the two of them. These places include evening market square, along the farm, or where they both fetch water. After the boy is satisfied the he has seen a beautiful girl, he informs his father. His father will then inform the eldest member of the family. When they are sure that there is no blood relationship between the two, they then meet with the family of the bride-to-be. The two families then select a go-between (Alarena).It is the duty of the Alarena to perform a background check on the family of the bride-to-be. This is to avoid marrying someone with some serious physical or mental disorder such as lunacy, epilepsy, leprosy, or extreme albinism. The Alarena will also watch the conduct of the girl over time. When she is satisfied with the conduct of the girl, the family of the boy now consults the ifa oracle .The aim is to know what the future portends for the two people involved. If the consultation yields a positive result, then they move to the next stage, if not then they discontinue with the marriage. The releasing of the voice (Isihun) is when the girl gives her consent in the marriage. The date is now set for the Itoro (engagement).On the appointed day, a few elders from the boy’s family gets to the girl’s house as early as five am in the morning unannounced. This is to formally solicit for the parent of the girl’s consent in marriage. The girl’s parent will then told the delegates that they are not the only one involve in given out the girl. This is because marriage involves every member of the extended family and no one must be left uninformed. Before the delegation leaves, a date is set for Idana .On the appointed day, the two families meet in bride-to-be’s residence. This is when the dowry (owo ori), and other items that have significance in the life of the family to be are presented to the girl’s family. Some of the items include choice kola-nuts, some alligator pepper, bitter-kola certain number of yam tubers, palm oil, salt, fine wrapper of good quality, and other things. In most cases, the dowry is returned to the parents of the boy with the assertion that they do not sell their daughter. After much eating and drinking, the two families set a date for the actual wedding. On the wedding day, there are so many festivities in both the parents’ houses. The two families separately bring together and friends and well-wishers. There is so much to eat and drink on this day. The two families display the various uniforms (aso-ebi) which they have sown. Both the bride and the groom’s families flaunt their affluence with the type of people in attendance, the type of musician(s) invited, and duration of the parties. In the night, the bride goes before the male elders of the family to obtain blessing. The eldest of them starts the prayer asking the ancestors to protect her. He also admonishes her to be of good conduct in her new abode. All other male and later female members take their turn to pray for her and advise her. After these prayers, she then turns to her mother for prayer and blessing in form of bride’s song of departure (ekun iyawo).The bride is then taken to the groom’s house by some men, accompany by some of the wife’s friends and a younger cousin, niece or nephew who is known as omo iyawo. After all formalities, at the entrance of the house, the bride is admitted into the household and finally handed over to the eldest wife in the family for mentoring.


Another argument could be because she holds the power to either make or destroy a home, therefore the bride price is to caution her excesses.

Some women are just the greatest hurdle to gender equality. I read what some women write and marvel. It's so sad.

Justfollowit:

It is actually in most homes but it depends on the socio-economic status of the woman and her family. That is why we have women who cannot leave their marital homes because their fathers forbid it. I have witnessed several accounts of family dispute arbitration, where clearly the husband was in the wrong, but somehow the bride's family will find a way of apportioning the larger part of the blame to the woman- because she has to stay in her husband's house come what may. Or father-in-laws that cannot visit their daughters marital homes unnecessarily or stay there for long unless if necessary because she has already been given out.

Of course, you do not owe anyone a penny. It is in your discretion but do not be surprise if your fiancee's family decides not to release their daughter

You can always ask for a refund and return their daughters

It is culture

Nope, not me. You will be giving a token in exchange for my family's consent

Interesting...but these women have grown wings these days, and their parents need to start giving them out free-of-charge like other women. Also, would the refund be paid with the right interests? If so, for a belligerent woman, that would be a great investment cos I definitely won't mind paying quadruple the amount. As long as I know that once she goes berserk, I can always cash in.

Personally, I just think the whole thing is about women wanting to eat their cake and have it, at the same time.