coogar:


elampiro, you are a bush man!
you keep disgracing the respectable united fans with your poor english comprehension. what brought us here is rooney's poor first touch - not the number of touches he gets per game. first touch = his command of the ball when he receives a pass.

I guess the over head kick against Man City was from a second touch. Goals against Necastle from across, goal against Liverpool in the preseason were from seond toches. My guy, it is harder to score from first time shot than to make a pass. My pont.

In our last game, if he had a poor touch to Mata's pass, he woudn't have been able to send Di Maria free. Rooney has great first touches like ayone else.

coogar:


head, leg, chest, knee, bütt can all qualify as touches. rooney's poor first touch has nothing to do with number of touches he makes per game. don't colour the argument with your poor use of english language.

Number of touches in a game has a direct correlation with the number of poor touches and unsuccessful touches. The more you are invoved, the more you make mistakes. If RVP drops to midfield, his number of poor and unsuccessful touches will increase.

coogar:


we had to literally tutor you yesterday when you were confusing shot on target with first touch. first touch is not the same as number of touches so your stats have no bearing with the argument. only a fool would argue that rooney has a better control of the ball than berbatov, RVP or mata.

You need education. You told this house that number of saves a goalkeeper makes in a match is dependent on the number of attempts the opposition have on him. Same way, if Rooney stays idle in a match like RVP does, you woudnt notice any error, or the errors will be minimal.




Now back to Berbatov
2011/2012
Macheda unseccesful touches was every 14.7 mins.
Welbeck unseccesful touches was every 32 mins. Dispossessed every 30 mins.
Nani unseccesful touches was every 39 mins. Dispossessed every 33 mins.
Hernadez unseccesful touches was every 41 mins. Dispossessed every 49 mins.
Cleverley unseccesful touches was every 43 mins. Dispossessed every 145 mins.
JS parkunseccesful touches was every 48 mins. Dispossessed every 51 mins.
Berbatov unseccesful touches was every 51.3 mins. Dispossessed every 36.6 mins.
Rooney unseccesful touches was every 55.7 mins. Dispossessed every 38.9 mins.



Note: Rooney made a pass every 1.7 mins (avaerage of 53 passes per match) while Berba made a pass every 2.2 minutes( 41 passes per match). Hernadez was making 24 passes per match.

The way they hyped Berbatov, one would think he never had unsuccessful touch all his life.

When he succeeded in doing one magic in 10 matches, that would end up as the life time highlight for soccer 'kids'.

elampiro just dey argue with himself i swear...he has missed d whole point of discussion


In other news,Luke Shaw expected to be fit to face Southampton

Odunharry:
elampiro just dey argue with himself i swear...he has missed d whole point of discussion

that's what you get when you are arguing with an illiterate. we are discussing first touch that controls a ball & makes the ball stick to the feet and this dork thinks we are talking about shot on target.

i dunno if he's trolling or he has reached the zenith of his little intelligence. what has the control of a ball gotta do with the number of touches a player makes?

that berbatov gif that had him killing a ball is an example of first touch. if he then decides to dribble after that touch and he gets dispossessed, does that have anything to do with the first touch that controlled the ball?


when they likened him to a toothless illiterate, he gets angry & yet he keeps disgracing himself in public. how can anyone argue in the 21st century that first touch = number of touches a player make?

some mothers do have them......

In other news,Luke Shaw expected to be fit to face Southampton

he'd better be fit!

Odunharry:
elampiro just dey argue with himself i swear...he has missed d whole point of discussion


In other news,Luke Shaw expected to be fit to face Southampton

Be guided:



02 October 2013

Touches

A sum of all events where a player touches the ball, so excludes things like Aerial challenge lost or Challenge lost



Touch/Unsuccessful touch

When the ball bounces off a player and there is no intentional pass, we award a touch. Where there is a mis-control we award an Unsuccessful touch.













Rooney has control than Berbatov: fact:

"Winston Reid has refused to sign a new contract with us" ...Sam Alladayce




Should we swoop in for d deal? at least he will provide temporary options until summer... n according to big Sam ,he might have signed a pre contract with "another club" ,as we know, arsenal r also interested

coogar:


that's what you get when you are arguing with an illiterate. we are discussing first touch that controls a ball & makes the ball stick to the feet and this dork thinks we are talking about shot on target.

i dunno if he's trolling or he has reached the zenith of his little intelligence. what has the control of a ball gotta do with the number of touches a player makes?

that berbatov gif that had him killing a ball is an example of first touch. if he then decides to dribble after that touch and he gets dispossessed, does that have anything to do with the first touch that controlled the ball?


when they likened him to a toothless illiterate, he gets angry & yet he keeps disgracing himself in public. how can anyone argue in the 21st century that first touch = number of touches a player make?

some mothers do have them......



he'd better be fit!

' Where there is a mis-control we award an Unsuccessful touch.' - OPTA


And Berbatov have more miscontrols per minutes payed than Rooney.
Same with Falcao and RVP. They have more miscontrols than Rooney in every parameter.


Stats are facts. Remember. Yori yori.



OdunHarry, just agree you didn't e0xpect this outcome.

elampiro:


Be guided:



02 October 2013

Touches

A sum of all events where a player touches the ball, so excludes things like Aerial challenge lost or Challenge lost



Touch/Unsuccessful touch

When the ball bounces off a player and there is no intentional pass, we award a touch. Where there is a mis-control we award an Unsuccessful touch.













Rooney has control than Berbatov: fact:

i gifff up....*faint*

Odunharry:

i gifff up....*faint*

You have no option. We are talking undeniable facts from stat.

Opta states clearly what a touch is. it excludes ball contests.

It states what an unsuccessful touch is= miscontrol.

The worst of all is the irony that Rooney who touches the ball most has less micontrols per minutes as against Berbatov, RVP and Falcao.

Mata and Di Maria are slighly above Rooney. But Valencia is Oga of good control.

elampiro:

' Where there is a mis-control we award an Unsuccessful touch.' - OPTA

so is that miscontrol the first touch? illiteracy is a disease. van persie would have been awarded an unsuccessful touch when he failed to score against lloris......but his first touch before he miscontrolled the ball with the 3rd touch was 100% perfect.

so elampawa - is the first touch the same as the miscontrol?

illiteracy is a disease.

And Berbatov have more miscontrols per minutes payed than Rooney. Same with Falcao and RVP. They have more miscontrols than Rooney in every parameter.
Stats are facts. Remember. Yori yori.

on which planet is berbatov more erroneous than rooney in ball control? rooney plays deep, runs into areas where he can get away with his atrocious first touch - berba/RVP/falcao play in areas where they are more heavily marked. rooney has more passes closer to de gea than any of our striker - how would he miscontrol in that area of the pitch when there's no marker breathing down his neck.

this is the 12th time you have been exposed - you don't have the IQ to draw conclusions from data and statistics.

elampiro:



You have no option. We are talking undeniable facts from stat.

Opta states clearly what a touch is. it excludes ball contests.

It states what an unsuccessful touch is= miscontrol.

The worst of all is the irony that Rooney who touches the ball most has less micontrols per minutes as against Berbatov, RVP and Falcao.

Mata and Di Maria are slighly above Rooney. But Valencia is Oga of good control.

Oga first touch is different to the subsequent touches.

1st touch is the initial control when a player gets the ball, the other touches you're talking about are related to dribbles

Berbatov can trap a 50 yard cross field ball dead 10 out of 10 times, but may also subsequently give the ball away 10 out 10 times with his second touch.

2 different things bro

Nihilist:


Oga first touch is different to the subsequent touches.

1st touch is the initial control when a player gets the ball, the other touches you're talking about are related to dribbles

Berbatov can trap a 50 yard cross field ball dead 10 out of 10 times, but may also subsequently give the ball away 10 out 10 times with his second touch.

2 different things bro

The argument is about possession lost. That was the genesis. They said Rooney losses possession any how.

The unsuccessful touch is the best to measure our argument. I includes first touch and other touches.


This is a flawless victory for me. Coogar needs education.




Everything you guys are saying is theory. I.have seen. Berbatov miss many first touches in Minute United.

Nihilist:


Oga first touch is different to the subsequent touches.

1st touch is the initial control when a player gets the ball, the other touches you're talking about are related to dribbles

Berbatov can trap a 50 yard cross field ball dead 10 out of 10 times, but may also subsequently give the ball away 10 out 10 times with his second touch.

2 different things bro

i cannot believe elampawa doesn't know the diffeeeence between the first touch & the subsequent touches.



this is a classic example of what we are talking about. van persie's first touch here was 100% but he got dispossessed cos of the subsequent touches he made after the excellent first touch.

how's this difficult to understand?
when rooney was put through in the same game with a similar pass, his first control had the ball behind him & forced rooney to face our goal. that's a poor first touch!

elampiro:

The argument is about possession lost. That was the genesis. They said Rooney losses possession any how.
The unsuccessful touch is the best to measure our argument. I includes first touch and other touches.
This is a flawless victory for me. Coogar needs education.

flawless victory?

a pundit that has no common sense to differentiate between the first touch that controls the ball and subsequent touches is claiming victory? if you have any shame, you will log out.

coogar:


flawless victory?

a pundit that has no common sense to differentiate between the first touch that controls the ball and subsequent touches is claiming victory? if you have any shame, you will log out.

It's a flawless victory. You told us Rooney gets dispossessed more than anyone in the world. I brought stats to defea you.

You said Rooney has no first touch, I brought unsuccessful touches to defeat. You are here sending gif and theory.

10/11 season.

berbatov - top striker
rooney - number 10.

berbatov got dispossessed 45 times
rooney got dispossessed 56 times

elampiro's conclusion - berba loses possession more than rooney??

elampiro:

It's a flawless victory. You told us Rooney gets dispossessed more than anyone in the world. I brought stats to defea you.
You said Rooney has no first touch, I brought unsuccessful touches to defeat. You are here sending gif and theory.

you know your own don finish when nihilist(your attorney) opposed you publicly in this debate. there's nothing more to say than you have cooked your goose.

Nihilist:


Oga first touch is different to the subsequent touches.

1st touch is the initial control when a player gets the ball, the other touches you're talking about are related to dribbles

Berbatov can trap a 50 yard cross field ball dead 10 out of 10 times, but may also subsequently give the ball away 10 out 10 times with his second touch.

2 different things bro

Opta's Event Definitions
02 October 2013

Touches

A sum of all events where a player touches the ball, so excludes things like Aerial challenge lost or Challenge lost



Touch/Unsuccessful touch

When the ball bounces off a player and there is no intentional pass, we award a touch. Where there is a mis-control we award an Unsuccessful touch.


.......





Do the above definition exclude first touches?

coogar:
10/11 season.

berbatov - top striker
rooney - number 10.

berbatov got dispossessed 45 times
rooney got dispossessed 56 times

elampiro's conclusion - berba loses possession more than rooney??



you know your own don finish when nihilist(your attorney) opposes you publicly in this debate. there's nothing more to say than you have cooked your goose.

Toroise

I gave you two seasons. You manage to bring one.


Rooney won again.



Nihiist is on his own defending his earlier comments

elampiro:

Toroise
I gave you two seasons. You manage to bring one. Rooney won again.

so how come you didn't include the one rooney was found wanting even from a deep position in your analysis?

i will be back with more stats....

Nihiist is on his own defending his earlier comments

so you need nihilist to tell you that first touch is a completely different stat from dispossession stats?

shame on you, elampawa!

elampiro:


Opta's Event Definitions
02 October 2013

Touches

A sum of all events where a player touches the ball, so excludes things like Aerial challenge lost or Challenge lost



Touch/Unsuccessful touch

When the ball bounces off a player and there is no intentional pass, we award a touch. Where there is a mis-control we award an Unsuccessful touch.


.......





Do the above definition exclude first touches?

Your definition is inadequate in this case because it fails to recognise that First Touch is a unique skill on its own.

Short pass and Long pass are both passes but they are defined separately.

First touch is a touch yes, but it's also an individual skill.

11/12 season(passing stats)
berbatov - 83.5%
rooney - 80.7%

10/11
berbatov - 80.3%
rooney - 76.9%

09/10
berbatov - 77.9%
rooney - 73.6%

whether rooney plays deep or plays as the arrowhead, he consistently gave the ball away far more than berbatov.

elampawa, ask yourself - what was rooney doing with the ball?

Nihilist:

Your definition is inadequate in this case because it fails to recognise that First Touch is a unique skill on its own.
Short pass and Long pass are both passes but they are defined separately.
First touch is a touch yes, but it's also an individual skill.

first touch is a subset of touches. someone like fellaini can excellently control a missile with his chest(first touch) but he would then miscue his pass(2nd or 3rd touch).

as far as elampawa is concerned - that first touch means nothing cos the 2nd/3rd touch gave the ball away. how can one argue so blindly?

coogar:


so how come you didn't include the one rooney was found wanting even from a deep position in your analysis?

i will be back with more stats....




so you need nihilist to tell you that first touch is a completely different stat from dispossession stats?

shame on you, elampawa!

Unsuccessful touches is not the same as dispossessed.

I will also bring more stats tomorrow. I want to rest for now.

coogar:
11/12 season(passing stats)
berbatov - 83.5%
rooney - 80.7%

10/11
berbatov - 80.3%
rooney - 76.9%

09/10
berbatov - 77.9%
rooney - 73.6%

whether rooney plays deep or plays as the arrowhead, he consistently gave the ball away far more than berbatov.

elampawa, ask yourself - what was rooney doing with the ball?

Safe passes. Yeye pases.

Bebrbaov was hiding from the ball in heat zone. That's why he had less number of passes than Rooney. Yet he was having poor control of the ball.

elampiro:


Bebrbaov was hiding from the ball in heat zone. That's why he had less number of passes than Rooney. Yet he was having poor control of the ball.

yeah right!
berbatov hid from the ball & won the golden boot without a single penalty. rooney never hid from the ball and he has failed to win the golden boot for 11 seasons.

tell us another lie.

Nihilist:


Berbatov can trap a 50 yard cross field ball dead 10 out of 10 times, but may also subsequently give the ball away 10 out 10 times with his second touch.

The closest the home side came to a real chance was from Pajtim Kasami's early through-ball to Berbatov.

The Bulgaria striker looked well-placed to control and sneak through for a one-on-one with Spurs goalkeeper Lloris.

But his first touch let him down at the crucial moment, and the half-chance evaporated on the icy autumn air.

Andre Villas Boas believes his Tottenham side are back to winning ways after the 2-1 win over Fulham.

.http://www1.skysports.com/football/live/match/287425/report

........


Marseille offered little evidence of how they won the French title last season. It eventually came at the start of the second period, when Lucho Gonzalez seized on Dimitar Berbatov's failure to control deep inside the United half and whipped over a curling cross for Brandao, whose firm header was directed straight at Edwin Van der Sar.
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/latestsport/178307/United-held-in-Marseille





How come this? There are many countless out there.



See you tomorrow.

coogar:


yeah right!
berbatov hid from the ball & won the golden boot without a single penalty. rooney never hid from the ball and he has failed to win the golden boot for 11 seasons.

tell us another lie.

How many UCL goals did Berba score for us in 4 years?

Ball control:
Rooney >>> Berbatov, Falcao and RVP. - OPTA

I will be back much later.

elampiro:

How many UCL goals did Berba score for us in 4 years?

how many did he play?
fergie's tactics in europe is to use a lone striker - absorb pressure for long periods and counter attack with pace.

berbatov ain't suited to such pre-historic football. square peg in a round hole for the kinda football we play in europe. in the premier league, in his 3rd season, berbatov achieved what rooney hasn't been able to cop in his entire career.

elampiro:
Ball control:
Rooney >>> Berbatov, Falcao and RVP. - OPTA
I will be back much later.

rooney is the worst striker we have had in the last 11 years as far as controlling the ball is concerned. even welbeck, chicharito & wilson have a better first touch than rooney.

coogar:


how many did he play?
fergie's tactics in europe is to use a lone striker - absorb pressure for long periods and counter attack with pace.

berbatov ain't suited to such pre-historic football. square peg in a round hole for the kinda football we play in europe. in the premier league, in his 3rd season, berbatov achieved what rooney hasn't been able to cop in his entire career.

Did Berba win EPL player of the season?
Did he win UCL trophy?
Has he played UCL final?
Has he won golden boot in world club cup?
Has he won golden ball in world club bal?
Has he was UCL highest Assist of the season?

Rooney is king.

coogar:


rooney is the worst striker we have had in the last 11 years as far as controlling the ball is concerned. even welbeck, chicharito & wilson have a better first touch than rooney.

From your dream and imagination.

OPTA has spoken. Rooney is above all of them in ball control. Only Mata and Di Maria are better.

elampiro:

From your dream and imagination.

OPTA has spoken. Rooney is above all of them in ball control. Only Mata and Di Maria are better.

opta said rooney has the worst possession stats - berbatov consistently destroyed him.

Did Berba win EPL player of the season?
Did he win UCL trophy?
Has he played UCL final?
Has he won golden boot in world club cup?
Has he won golden ball in world club bal?
Has he was UCL highest Assist of the season?

•berbatov was the best striker in the premier league in his debut season in england

•berbatov won the golden boot in england(excluding cheap penalties to boost his stats)

•berbatov has scored more international goals than rooney in spite of his retirement few seasons ago.

•rooney had no hand in our european glory. anderson, nani, contributed more as substitutes than wayne rooney.

•lastly, berbatov looks better than rooney - rooney looks like shrek.....the cross between a gibbon and a congolese pig.

elampiro:


From your dream and imagination.

OPTA has spoken. Rooney is above all of them in ball control. Only Mata and Di Maria are better.

everywhere on the planet, rooney's first touch is a global cause for concern.

and more.....

www.nairaland.com/attachments/2002323_image_jpeg9f360c5ab7736510df54c882e9dbf188

still more....

www.nairaland.com/attachments/2002324_image_jpeg9f360c5ab7736510df54c882e9dbf188

and......

www.nairaland.com/attachments/2002322_image_jpeg9f360c5ab7736510df54c882e9dbf188

yet more.....

www.nairaland.com/attachments/2002325_image_jpeg9f360c5ab7736510df54c882e9dbf188

even united fans agree his first touch is poor.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/2002329_image_jpeg9f360c5ab7736510df54c882e9dbf188

No need for this long talk, coogar, bring a gif of our game against tottenham, where rooney wasted that sublime pass

That's a very clear example