shdemidemi:
Thank God bro

I certainly will not ignore your posts if addressed to to me with a conscious intent to do so.
I didn't see them, I read your post even when it isn't addressed to me and they are often worth a read,
if you don't mind you can post them again.

As for Adam, I think the right word is 'disobedience' and not lack of faith.
I don't think that is really worth arguing about.

We cool, nothing spoilt.
I blew my horn on your post here
(i.e. https://www.nairaland.com/2076644/christian-justify-still-guilty-charged/6#29662791)

C'mom now Shdemidemi, who said "lack of faith", certainly wasnt me, not my choice of words
The difference between "lose faith" and "lack of faith" is unambiguous

What are your many definitions and/or meaning of faith?
- Make it a honest and exhaustive one
Is apostasy not departing from the faith? Yes or No
Did Adam, in "disobeying constituted authority", not depart from the faith, faith in the word of God then?
If Adam didnt lose faith, who lost faith in Eden then?
Did any party lose faith in Eden at all?
I anticipated you might play the semantic-with-the-meaning-of-faith move

Bidam,
This is one post with the MOST verses quoted on NL. You are a diligent man in the things of God. May He reward you mightily.

Now,I have no problem with all that is said here namely the author (not Paul) is warning against apostasy, the question is, can this apostasy land a former believer in hell?

I won't fight your conviction my broda, we have had enough of that. For vooks, I read loss of salvation/eternity for apostasy and two arguments are employed by the author to buttress his point;
1. The IMPOSSIBILITY of restoring such an apostate
2. The CONSEQUENCES of apostasy namely hellfire

Bidam:
Ok vooks, back to the discuss concerning the heb verse you harangue shdemidemi with. I think it was a warning against apostasy, the hebrew audience were thinking of abandoning their faith in Jesus and lapsing back into Judaism...fastfoward to modern day and you will notice folks who are tired of church becoming atheist.

This excerpt from an article i am reading now might provoke some thoughts and contribute to the discuss.



The lesson is simple: If the believing Hebrews who had received gospel blessings and privileges fell away to Judaism, their practical recovery from judgment was impossible due to the seriousness and timing of their crime.

The salvation of 6:9 is practical salvation from judgment (Compare Ac 2:40).
This solution fits the overall message of Christ and the apostles to the Jews.
This solution fits the overall context of Paul's persuasion against apostasy.
This solution fits the immediate context of Paul's rebuke for slothfulness.
This solution places a most excellent and severe warning land exhortation here.
This solution fits Paul's fear of their departing from God (Heb 3:12) and fall (Heb 4:11).
This solution fits Hebrews' wording (Heb 2:1-3; 4:1,11; 10:26-31,38-39; 12:15-17,25-29).
This solution satisfies the urgency and finality of "nigh unto cursing" (Heb 6:.

The Hebrews were under far greater gospel duty than the Gentiles at this time.

When the Jews rejected Jesus Christ, Paul left them (Acts 18:6; 13:46; 28:28).
But he was sure of renewing Gentile apostates again to repentance (Gal 4:19).
The blinding of elect Jews is a great mystery of the gospel (Romans 11:25-28).

The presence or lack of growth and fruit shows God's position to the ground (Heb 6:7-.

Ground and men are similar - fruit evidences God's blessing and thorns His curse.
Ground that brings forth thorns is rejected, nigh unto cursing, and to be burned.
God rejects those that reject Him (II Kgs 17:20; Jer 7:29; Hos 4:6; Heb 12:17).
God curses (swares against) His enemies (Ge 4:11-22; Deut 11:26-28; Heb 3:11,18).
God will burn plants without fruit (Mat 3:10; 7:19; Jn 15:6; Heb 10:27; 12:29).
Paul had similarly, though not identically, warned the Gentiles (I Cor 16:22).
God burned up the Hebrew nation for rejecting Christ (Malachi 4:1; Matt 22:7)
God will burn up the Gentiles that do not obey Christ's gospel (II Thess 1:7-10).

Hail shdemidemi,King of semantics and word play, he of the speaking-in-tongues vs speaking-in-an-unknown-tongue BS

I keep on saying that Google can't increase your IQ and am always accused of insulting people

BabaGnoni:


We cool, nothing spoilt.
I blew my horn on your post here
(i.e. https://www.nairaland.com/2076644/christian-justify-still-guilty-charged/6#29662791)

C'mom now Shdemidemi, who said "lack of faith", certainly wasnt me, not my choice of words
The difference between "lose faith" and "lack of faith" is unambiguous

What are your many definitions and/or meaning of faith?
- Make it a honest and exhaustive one
Is apostasy not departing from the faith? Yes or No
Did Adam, in "disobeying constituted authority", not depart from the faith, faith in the word of God then?
If Adam didnt lose faith, who lost faith in Eden then?
Did any party lose faith in Eden at all?
I anticipated you might play the semantic-with-the-meaning-of-faith move

Garbage stinks and no amount of palongo or azonto hops from one irrelevance to the other can change that. Your best solution is to play dumb

shdemidemi:


Don't shove your nauseating attributes to God, rather deal with it with His Word. Get objective, make your point without expecting it to be a rule I must accept or share. Beyond that, make scripture the judge of what is garbage and what isn't..

BabaGnoni:

What are your many definitions and/or meaning of faith?
- Make it a honest and exhaustive one

Primarily,[size=20pt] Faith is ones conviction based upon what he/she hears[/size].

In Christianity, it is used of faith in God, Jesus or things spiritual.

Aside this definition, faith is used in different context in the bible, I will use different quotes to demonstrate the different uses of the word 'FAITH'.

TRUST

1 cor 2:5
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Faith as used in the above quote can be translated 'TRUST'.

TRUST WORTHINESS
Gal 5

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Faith as used here is 'trust worthiness' or 'FIDELITY' which is different from the context of the first.

CONTENTS OF BELIEF
GAL 1
23 But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.


There is more but I will stop there to go the most popular and conventional use.

SIZE/DEGREE/WEIGHT (You can fit in any standard unit to measure) OF TRUST
MATT 6
30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

Only Jesus used this form of rebuke in the entire scripture. I go further, this kind of 'faith' is different even in the Greek word used to the 'faith' used in every other part of scripture.

It is OLIGOPISTIS and not PISTIS like the rest of FAITH we see all over scripture.

BabaGnoni:


Is apostasy not departing from the faith? Yes or No

A BIG ONE-

One issue of apostasy was not registered or addressed within all of the epistles that form the framework and blueprint of the Christian tenets. People rebelled but were never condemned to be heading to hell in any of the churches- from Corinth to Collossae.

I will not assume that a believer can die after being raised by Christ from the dead.

BabaGnoni:

Did Adam, in "disobeying constituted authority", not depart from the faith, faith in the word of God then?
If Adam didnt lose faith, who lost faith in Eden then?
Did any party lose faith in Eden at all?
I anticipated you might play the semantic-with-the-meaning-of-faith move

I can disobey you without losing faith in you. More like calling your bluff. Adam had fellowship with God, only God knows how long for, He knew who is creator is, they chat- the bible says God walked to Adam. There was no doubt in his mind about God's capacity or capability, he was only deceived to disobey the instructions God gave.

Nobody lost faith in God, they all disobeyed their maker including Mr serpent/satan. They all knew who God is and what He represented, what was oblivious to Adam and Eve was the ramification of their disobedience.

italo:
I warned you about that guy.

[size=5pt]When you show him where Jesus said believers are going to hell, he says that was before Jesus died so those believers were not justified.

When you show him that Abraham was justified thousands of years before Jesus died, he switches and says those working miracles in Jesus' name were not believers.

When you show him where the book of Hebrews, Romans, Corinthians show Christians can go to hell (after Jesus died), he says the books were written to Jews.[/size]

What amazes me is how BabaGnone pretends he doesn't see the dubious excuses
just because they are defending the same position.

You're arguing with a man who believes there are two gospels and two Jesuses.

My advice is you ignore that one and discuss with the rest.

Arguing with him is like shouting back at an alarm system gone off.

You should either ignore it or put it off.

shdemidemi, has the same right as anyone in having opinions
and airing or stating them without fear of personal remarks that aim to weaken or emasculate

I respect that right, I respect his strength in his beliefs and so dont hold it against him

I pick my battles wisely, it isnt a case of pretending not seeing dubious excuses
I don't need to be flying off the handle at every other writing shdemidemi posts
Save your energy, especially when shdemidemi already has his hands full with vooks
"Choose your battles wisely..." There, thats some no charge good advice!
Another thing is, patience is a virtue, bide your time.

Now, italo, you have to show exactly for all to see and explain to all how BabaGnoni and shdemidemi "are defending the same position"

shdemidemi:
A BIG ONE-

One issue of apostasy was not registered or addressed within all of the epistles that form the framework and blueprint of the Christian tenets. People rebelled but were never condemned to be heading to hell in any of the churches- from Corinth to Collossae.

I will not assume that a Christian can die after being raised by Christ from the dead

Interesting...
Please expatiate on the two bolds above
- also would like to have examples and scripture you are linking them with

BabaGnoni:

Interesting...
Please expatiate on the two bolds above
- also would like to have examples and scripture you are linking them with

Paul explained what it means to be baptised- complete immersion in Rom 6

Romans 6 King James Version (KJV)

6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.


I don't believe any believer can be put back to death after this spiritual baptism.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When I say 'rebelled', not against the faith but against what is accepted within the gathering of believers.
1 cor 5
1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,

5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus

Paul used similar language against fellow believers and workers who went against the gospel
1 TIM 1:20
Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.

vooks:
Hail shdemidemi,King of semantics and word play, he of the speaking-in-tongues vs speaking-in-an-unknown-tongue BS

I keep on saying that Google can't increase your IQ and am always accused of insulting people

Dust your bible my friend and stop boring us with your arguments.

Present what you believe, it isn't enough to just be a critic.

shdemidemi:
I can disobey you without losing faith in you. More like calling your bluff.

Adam had fellowship with God, only God knows how long for, He knew who is creator is, they chat- the bible says God walked to Adam.
There was no doubt in his mind about God's capacity or capability, he was only deceived to disobey the instructions God gave.

Nobody lost faith in God, they all disobeyed their maker including Mr serpent/satan.
They all knew who God is and what He represented, what was oblivious to Adam and Eve was the ramification of their disobedience.

Interesting again...
You seemed to have stepped right in it shdemidemi
- wipe the bolds muck off your shoes

Until the recent past, I used wonder a lot why Adam took the fruit and ate, I had some many guesses
and then I stumbled upon this other one but hey that's for another day

Anyway Adam didnt and wasnt "calling God's bluff" (i.e. Adam understood death, as a result of, as you said, he chatted with God)

Regarding "he was only deceived to disobey the instructions God gave".
The bible doesnt support this or say so, rather the bible says, Adam was not deceived (i.e. 1 Timothy 2:14)

Regarding also "Nobody lost faith in God".
The bible doesnt support this or say so either rather the bible suggests Eve lost faith and says women will be saved if they continue in faith (i.e. 1 Timothy 2:15)

BabaGnoni:

Interesting again...
You seemed to have stepped right in it shdemidemi
Until the recent past, I used wonder a lot why Adam took the fruit and ate, I had some many guesses
and then I stumbled upon this other one but hey that's for another day

Anyway Adam didnt and wasnt[/b] "calling God's bluff" (i.e. Adam understood death, as a result of, as you said, he chatted with God)

Regarding "he was only deceived to disobey the instructions God gave[/b]" [b]The bible doesnt support this or say so, rather the bible says, Adam was not deceived (i.e. 1 Timothy 2:14)

Regarding also "Nobody lost faith in God". [b]The bible doesnt support this or say so either rather the bible suggests [b]Eve lost faith [/b]and says women will be saved if they continue in faith (i.e. 1 Timothy 2:15)

Ok, we can push this as far as you want . Eve and Adam are one as far as God is concerned, thus why they both suffered the consequence of Eve's action. Remember she was made out of man and not created from dust like Adam.

We have a myriad of passages that put the blame directly on Adam without mentioning Eve. Paul divided these two only when it came to position of authority within the church. Asides this Adam and Eve remain inseparable like the church and Jesus are inseparable.

Eve never lost faith in God, the bible never said that, she disobeyed God's instruction. I can have faith but disobey due to the weakness of my flesh, can't I?.

vooks:

Bidam,
This is one post with the MOST verses quoted on NL. You are a diligent man in the things of God. May He reward you mightily.

Now,I have no problem with all that is said here namely the author (not Paul) is warning against apostasy, the question is, can this apostasy land a former believer in hell?

I won't fight your conviction my broda, we have had enough of that. For vooks, I read loss of salvation/eternity for apostasy and two arguments are employed by the author to buttress his point;
1. The IMPOSSIBILITY of restoring such an apostate
2. The CONSEQUENCES of apostasy namely hellfire

Yeah, apostasy is willful rejection of Christ and that is why this debate is hotly debated by theologians because the concept of God's sovereign and amazing grace in new testament scripture far outweighs the few scripture on a christian rebellion.

shdemidemi:
Yes... The faithful book says I should reckon myself as saved and I believe it with every fibre of my being.


Only God knows. I can only share the gospel that leads to salvation.



WORKS- This isn't a doctrine of GRACE which is a free gift of salvation to all (male,female,old, young, good, bad) that believe. It is actually that of works, whereby you are judged by what you do.

You will not find a statement like this in the epistles of Paul, who happens to be the minister appointed to the church(primarily Gentile).

here it comes, the theory of two gospels! One for paul and another for others.

Ubenedictus:
here it comes, the theory of two gospels! One for paul and another for others.

Are you going to address issues or impose what we must believe?

shdemidemi:


This thing seem so simple yet so hard to comprehend or accept.

New International Version
And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

New Living Translation
And since it is through God's kindness, then it is not by their good works. For in that case, God's grace would not be what it really is--free and undeserved.

English Standard Version
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

New American Standard Bible
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

King James Bible
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.


Can't you see these two Apostles were coming from two different view points? One from Judaism/legalism/law/tradition and then Christ and one purely Christ and nothing else?

Can't we just move from one level to a higher ground?
Hebrews 6
1 Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death,[a] and of faith in God,

So you are saying Paul's writing is inspired by the Spirit why James writing is not inspired by the Spirit?
Are you satisfied Paul is a Christian while James (one of Jesus disciple) is in Judaism?
Can you ear yourself?

Well... the two views are in perfect agreement.
Those verse you quoted from different versions are in perfect harmony with what James said.

Let me bring it out:
We are saved by grace through works.
And Yes, grace with work is not grace
Perfect harmony...

There is a difference between works of flesh and works of faith.

Hiswordxray:

So you are saying Paul's writing is inspired by the Spirit why James writing is not inspired by the Spirit?
Are you satisfied Paul is a Christian while James (one of Jesus disciple) is in Judaism?
Can you ear yourself?

I never said one is inspired and the other isn't, it would have been better if you asked me what I meant before making your own summations.

Hiswordxray:

Well... the two views are in perfect agreement.
Those verse you quoted from different versions are in perfect harmony with what James said.

Let me bring it out:
We are saved by grace through works.
And Yes, grace with work is not grace
Perfect harmony...

There is a difference between works of flesh and works of faith.

Stop it! They are not in harmony, you can bend it as you want but GRACE + nothing for salvation is different from GRACE+ Works for salvation.

The best way I will interpret it if I were to be on your side is that James was not talking about salvation in this chapter, he only need people to put in the work because they have been saved.

shdemidemi:


A BIG ONE-

One issue of apostasy was not registered or addressed within all of the epistles that form the framework and blueprint of the Christian tenets. People rebelled but were never condemned to be heading to hell in any of the churches- from Corinth to Collossae.

I will not assume that a believer can die after being raised by Christ from the dead.

I think you need to help us interpret these verses:
"If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death." (1John 5:16-17).

shdemidemi:
Ok, we can push this as far as you want .
Eve and Adam are one as far as God is concerned, thus why they both suffered the consequence of Eve's action
Remember she was made out of man and not created from dust like Adam.

Of course, sure, they are one
It was a delight having me read the above
The red bold highlight is what I said I stumbled upon and is unfortunately for another day

The teasers however are the what ifs.
What would be the implication, if Adam had stopped short eating the fruit?
What was Adam's motive for not stopping short of taking the fruit off Eve and going along with her offer that he eat the fruit?
Was Adam being preemptive in taking and eating the fruit?
Was Adam being selfless and killing two birds with one stone?

Except you want to attempt any or all of the above conundrums, I suppose this is not the day to "push this as far as we want"

shdemidemi:
We have a myriad of passages that put the blame directly on Adam without mentioning Eve.
Paul divided these two only when it came to position of authority within the church.
Asides this Adam and Eve remain inseparable like the church and Jesus are inseparable.

Eve never lost faith in God, the bible never said that, she disobeyed God's instruction.
I can have faith but disobey due to the weakness of my flesh

How do you reconcile "Eve never lost faith..." with 1 Timothy 2:14-15 then?

If "Eve never lost faith in God" what was 1 Timothy 2:15 implying then where it says "women will be saved if they continue in faith"

¹⁴And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
¹⁵But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.
- 1 Timothy 2:14-15 New American Standard Bible

I have faith in my SatNav 9 out of 10 times, the one odd time, is where I lose my faith in it, there I disobey its instruction
and take another route than the one the SatNav voice gives because I know of a quicker or faster alternativer

It hadnt come to weakness of flesh yet when Adam & Eve lost faith in the word of God and the subsequent disobedience
Many things make people lose faith and disobey
I gave one in my SatNav illustration, during Eve's experience, she gave three...

shdemidemi:


I never said one is inspired and the other isn't, it would have been better if you asked me what I meant before making your own summations.



Stop it! They are not in harmony, you can bend it as you want but GRACE + nothing for salvation is different from GRACE+ Works for salvation.

The best way I will interpret it if I were to be on your side is that James was not talking about salvation in this chapter, he only need people to put in the work because they have been saved.

Aren't we justified so that we can be saved?
Or can we be saved without being justified?
Now James said "You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

Just accept that you don't know so that we can teach you.
Like I said before there is a difference between works of the flesh and works of faith.

Hiswordxray:


I think you need to help us interpret these verses:
"If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death." (1John 5:16-17).

What is a sin unto death today?

It is unbelief! That is the sin against the Holy Spirit because you ignore the offer of Grace, Mercy, justification from God.

Use a simpler version, it might help-

16 If you see a fellow believer[d] sinning in a way that does not lead to death, you should pray, and God will give that person life. But there is a sin that leads to death, and I am not saying you should pray for those who commit it. 17 All wicked actions are sin, but not every sin leads to death.

18 [size=22pt]We know that God’s children do not make a practice of sinning, for God’s Son holds them securely, and the evil one cannot touch them[/size]. 19 We know that we are children of God and that the world around us is under the control of the evil one.

Tell me what you think now.

Eternal security is an invention of Calvin and is a central tenet Calvinism and the various creeds emanating from it. Guys are busy defending dead men and their systems and they won't let facts confuse them

When you think about it,there is a continuum of beliefs from Eternal Insecurity where NOBODY is sure of their eternity to Eternal Security where your eternity is so sealed and NOTHING you do can undo that.

There is a wealth of scriptures against both position. I believe in Conditional Security. You are assured of your eternity as long as you remain in faith. You depart from faith and you are damned.

Bidam:
Yeah, apostasy is willful rejection of Christ and that is why this debate is hotly debated by theologians because the concept of God's sovereign and amazing grace in new testament scripture far outweighs the few scripture on a christian rebellion.

BabaGnoni:


The teasers however are the what ifs.
What would be the implication, if Adam had stopped short eating the fruit?
What was Adam's motive for not stopping short of taking the fruit off Eve and going along with her offer that he eat the fruit?
Was Adam being preemptive in taking and eating the fruit?
Was Adam being selfless and killing two birds with one stone?

Except you want to attempt any or all of the above conundrums, I suppose this is not the day to "push this as far as we want"


How do you reconcile "Eve never lost faith..." with 1 Timothy 2:14-15 then?

If "Eve never lost faith in God" what was 1 Timothy 2:15 implying then where it says "women will be saved if they continue in faith"

¹⁴And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
¹⁵But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.
- 1 Timothy 2:14-15 New American Standard Bible

I have faith in my SatNav 9 out of 10 times, the one odd time, is where I lose my faith in it, there I disobey its instruction
and take another route than the one the SatNav voice gives because I know of a quicker or faster alternativer

It hadnt come to weakness of flesh yet when Adam & Eve lost faith in the word of God and the subsequent disobedience
Many things make people lose faith and disobey
I gave one in my SatNav illustration, during Eve's experience, she gave three...

Baba G, Can I disobey without losing faith?
1 Tim 2
15 But women will be saved through childbearing,[c] assuming they continue to live in faith, love, holiness, and modesty.

This is an example of where you don't play the flip side card. Well, faith here does not mean trust, it means 'trust-worthiness'/fidelity.

Hiswordxray:

Aren't we justified so that we can be saved?
Or can we be saved without being justified?
Now James said "You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

Just accept that you don't know so that we can teach you.
Like I said before there is a difference between works of the flesh and works of faith.

You are not following this convo closely enough my friend- What you have said there, is it the same as this-
Romans
4 Abraham was, humanly speaking, the founder of our Jewish nation. What did he discover about being made right with God? 2 If his good deeds had made him acceptable to God, he would have had something to boast about. But that was not God’s way. 3 For the Scriptures tell us, “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.”[a]

4 When people work, their wages are not a gift, but something they have earned. 5 But people are counted as righteous, not because of their work, but because of their faith in God who forgives sinners.

vooks:
Eternal security is an invention of Calvin and is a central tenet Calvinism and the various creeds emanating from it. Guys are busy defending dead men and their systems and they won't let facts confuse them

When you think about it,there is a continuum of beliefs from Eternal Insecurity where NOBODY is sure of their eternity to Eternal Security where your eternity is so sealed and NOTHING you do can undo that.

There is a wealth of scriptures against both position. I believe in Conditional Security. You are assured of your eternity as long as you remain in faith. You depart from faith and you are damned.

You are watching too much youtube critics... pick your bible- forget calvin or what he stands for- open the bible to see if what he said is supported by scripture or not.

I think that is a better way to go about it, you sure think otherwise.

vooks:
Eternal security is an invention of Calvin and is a central tenet Calvinism and the various creeds emanating from it. Guys are busy defending dead men and their systems and they won't let facts confuse them

When you think about it,there is a continuum from Eternal Insecurity where NOBODY is sure of their eternity to Eternal Security where your eternity is so sealed and NOTHING you do can undo that.

There is a wealth of scriptures against both position. I believe in Conditional Security. You are assured of your eternity as long as you remain in faith. You depart from faith and you are damned.

I do not believe the doctrine of eternal security is the invention of calvin. The same calvin quoted the pauline epistles to butress his arguments as do Jacobus Arminius who also teaches that you can lose eternal life by sinning after your freewill decision that got salvation started. OSAS is used truthfully if it is applied to the will of God in election, the death of Christ in justification, or the cleansing of the Spirit in regeneration. We can glory in this manmade phrase by applying it to the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ,the faithfulness and power of God and the meritorious value and perpetual intercession of Jesus Christ.

paxonel:
ahahahaahaaa, bros


how many times did christian mentioned in the bible?
name does not matter, what matter is that, there is Christianity now.

Jesus founded Christianity for men, not for himself, christians are men.
all the parables of Jesus where geared at Christianity, anytime Jesus mentioned the kingdom of God in his parables, just know that he was talking about the Christianity he was going to establish.

Christianity is the church, Jesus says i will build my church.

the tag Christianity started at Antioch, But in the real sense, the religion has started long before Antioch at crucifixion.

like i said, the name Christian doesn't matter, what matter is, we had a religion long before antioch,
name is only adopted for identification
before Antioch the apostles were called apostles or disciples, they were 12 of them, the other believers where known as disciples.

the name christians, was gotten because of their good works, But they were justified by grace at crucifixion not by works.
so, if we are to adopt the name christians, we should have this at the back of our mind

^^^
Bro all those were rhetorics and make believes
please now, responsibly answer the 1-10

Afterall when you do give your answers, we should be able to know how many times did christian mentioned in the bible,
be able to see as you've alleged, if "Jesus really did found Christianity", if "Christianity is the church", if "Jesus says i will build my church",
if this is all about a religion, if "we had a RELIGION long before antioch", if the apostles and others in NT used the name christian among themselves, for greeting themselves or for addressing each other at all.

And I say also unto thee,
That thou art Peter, a small rock and upon the large rock I will build my congregation {Gr. ekklesia – called out ones},
and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against her.
- Matt 16:18 Jubilee Bible 2000

paxonel dont be shy, dont develop cold feet, do the needful please.

@Bidam

I so hate you this morning , sometimes you just get me confused. Is it like there is a multi ownership of your moniker or what?

You don talk true today, I respect it but hmm, the way you take a U-turn sometimes.

shdemidemi:


What is a sin unto death today?

It is unbelief! That is the sin against the Holy Spirit because you ignore the offer of Grace, Mercy, justification from God.

Use a simpler version, it might help-

16 If you see a fellow believer[d] sinning in a way that does not lead to death, you should pray, and God will give that person life. But there is a sin that leads to death, and I am not saying you should pray for those who commit it. 17 All wicked actions are sin, but not every sin leads to death.

18 [size=22pt]We know that God’s children do not make a practice of sinning, for God’s Son holds them securely, and the evil one cannot touch them[/size]. 19 We know that we are children of God and that the world around us is under the control of the evil one.

Tell me what you think now.

Yes I think the Sin the lead to death is unbelief and John is saying believers can commit this sin.

shdemidemi:
Baba G, Can I disobey without losing faith?
1 Tim 2
15 But women will be saved through childbearing,[c] assuming they continue to live in faith, love, holiness, and modesty.

This is an example of where you don't play the flip side card. Well, faith here does not mean trust, it means 'trust-worthiness'/fidelity.

ROTBL at the bold above
We doing semantics again are we. Hmm? The below quote/copyright:
- "faith here does not mean trust, it means 'trust-worthiness'/fidelity" - © shdemidemi
- someone must have stopped or discontinued earlier on in the "faith here does not mean trust, it means 'trust-worthiness'/fidelity"
to prompt the heads up in 1 Tim 2: 15

So you discovered your voice? I had 'prophesied' that playing dumb is the only way you would get off

Once you are ready with Google, start a thread on your garbage and watch it dismantled in seconds

shdemidemi:


You are watching too much youtube critics... pick your bible- forget calvin or what he stands for- open the bible to see if what he said is supported by scripture or not.

I think that is a better way to go about it, you sure think otherwise.