Hiswordxray:

Yes I think the Sin the lead to death is unbelief and John is saying believers can commit this sin.

But 'unbelief' is different from one who had once believed, isn't it?

shdemidemi:


You are not following this convo closely enough my friend- What you have said there, is it the same as this-
Romans
4 Abraham was, humanly speaking, the founder of our Jewish nation. What did he discover about being made right with God? 2 If his good deeds had made him acceptable to God, he would have had something to boast about. But that was not God’s way. 3 For the Scriptures tell us, “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.”[a]

4 When people work, their wages are not a gift, but something they have earned. 5 But people are counted as righteous, not because of their work, but because of their faith in God who forgives sinners.

Yes...
Not by work but by faith and faith without work is death - Reconcile Rom 4:4-5 and James 2:26.
Or do you think they can not be in harmony.

BabaGnoni:

[
We doing semantics again are we. Hmm? The below quote/copyright:
- "faith here does not mean trust, it means 'trust-worthiness'/fidelity" - © shdemidemi
- someone must have stopped or discontinued earlier on in the "faith here does not mean trust, it means 'trust-worthiness'/fidelity"
to prompt the heads up in 1 Tim 2: 15

No semantics bro...

It's quite clear if you use other translations.

Calvin INVENTED Unconditional eternal security security my broda.

Am least interested in the phrase as much a what they represent namely the lie that Christians can get away with EVERYTHING. God is basically helpless against his own creation, He will drag them to heaven against their will if that is what it takes

Bidam:
I do
not believe the doctrine of eternal security is the invention of calvin. The same calvin quoted the pauline epistles to butress his arguments as do Jacobus Arminius who also teaches that you can lose eternal life by sinning after your freewill decision that got salvation started. OSAS is used truthfully if it is applied to the will of God in election, the death of Christ in justification, or the cleansing of the Spirit in regeneration. We can glory in this manmade phrase by applying it to the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ,the faithfulness and power of God and the meritorious value and perpetual intercession of Jesus Christ.

shdemidemi:
@Bidam

I so hate you this morning , sometimes you just get me confused.
Is it like there is a multi ownership of your moniker or what?

You don talk true today, I respect it but hmm, the way you take a U-turn sometimes.

We learn everyday from the word of God, from each when rubbing minds together and with the helping of the Spirit of Truth
GEJ would been more confused than you seeing Baba Iyabo yesterday turn up at his niece's wedding

Hiswordxray:

Yes...
Not by work but by faith and faith without work is death - Reconcile Rom 4:4-5 and James 2:26.
Or do you think they can not be in harmony.

They are not, this gospel of Faith without Works was what made Paul public enemy number 1. Nobody physically suffered as much as this man for the faith, he caused problems every time he goes around the Jews.

James gospel permitted Works- these works were not just that of being charitable, it included other Jewish traditions. Paul's gospel expunged all of those additions to say only Faith in the gospel leads to justification and salvation.

shdemidemi:


But 'unbelief' is different from one who had once believed, isn't it?

John is saying a believer can also commit the sin of unbelief.
Paul seem to agree with him when he warned believers not to commit the sin of unbelief (Heb 4:11) like Israelites commit (Heb 3:19).
Or do you think you are wiser than both of them.

Hiswordxray:

John is saying a believer can also commit the sin of unbelief.
Paul seem to agree with him when he warned believers not to commit the sin of unbelief (Heb 4:11) like Israelites commit (Heb 3:19).
Or do you think you are wiser than both of them.

No No No!

16 If you see a fellow believer[d] sinning in a way that does not lead to death, you should pray, and God will give that person life.(He stopped speaking about a believer at this point)

But there is a sin that leads to death, and I am not saying you should pray for those(these are not believers, a believer can't commit the sin of unbelief) who commit it. 17 All wicked actions are sin, but not every sin leads to death.

He went on to the next verse to speak about believers

18 We know that God’s children do not make a practice of sinning, for God’s Son holds them securely, and the evil one cannot touch them.


Hebrews were not believers, they were neither here nor there.

shdemidemi:


They are not, this gospel of Faith without Works was what made Paul public enemy number 1. Nobody physically suffered as much as this man for the faith, he caused problems every time he goes around the Jews.

James gospel permitted Works- these works were not just that of being charitable, it included other Jewish traditions. Paul's gospel expunged all of those additions to say only Faith in the gospel leads to justification and salvation.

So you are saying there are two gospels: the gospel of faith and the gospel of works.
Paul preach the gospel of faith.
While James preach the gospel of works.

So which gospel take you to heaven?

shdemidemi:
@Bidam

I so hate you this morning , sometimes you just get me confused. Is it like there is a multi ownership of your moniker or what?

You don talk true today, I respect it but hmm, the way you take a U-turn sometimes.

Oga i still don't get you o..Just stating my views on justification though.

shdemidemi:


No No No!

16 If you see a fellow believer[d] sinning in a way that does not lead to death, you should pray, and God will give that person life.(He stopped speaking about a believer at this point)

But there is a sin that leads to death, and I am not saying you should pray for those(these are not believers, a believer can't commit the sin of unbelief) who commit it. 17 All wicked actions are sin, but not every sin leads to death.

He went on to the next verse to speak about believers

18 We know that God’s children do not make a practice of sinning, for God’s Son holds them securely, and the evil one cannot touch them.


Hebrews were not believers, they were neither here nor there.

What did Jesus mean in these verses:
"5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned." (John 15:6-6)

Hiswordxray:

So you are saying there are two gospels: the gospel of faith and the gospel of works.
Paul preach the gospel of faith.
While James preach the gospel of works.

So which gospel take you to heaven?

The bible records two or three occasions where Paul and the other disciples took their messages to their separate audience. Paul says 'I was sent to the Gentiles', he calls himself the Apostle appointed to the Gentiles. James and Peter wrote their letters primarily to the scattered Jews, they both agreed at the conference held in Jerusalem to stay with the Jews while Paul go to the Gentiles.

Gal 2
2 I went there because God revealed to me that I should go. While I was there I met privately with those considered to be leaders of the church and shared with them [size=24pt]the message[/size] (if you are a stickler for language, you will understand 'the message' won't be used if it is exactly the same as the other message)I had been preaching to the Gentiles.

9 In fact, James, Peter,[c] and John, who were known as pillars of the church, recognized the gift God had given me, and they accepted Barnabas and me as their co-workers. [size=24pt]They encouraged us to keep preaching to the Gentiles, while they continued their work with the Jews.[/size]

vooks:
Calvin INVENTED Unconditional eternal security security my broda.

Am least interested in the phrase as much a what they represent namely the lie that Christians can get away with EVERYTHING. God is basically helpless against his own creation, He will drag them to heaven against their will if that is what it takes

Anyway whichever way you see it i believe God's love is UNCONDITIONAL the only condition attached is rewards for good works which is fruit bearing.

Bidam:
Oga i still don't get you o..Just stating my views on justification though.

Ok o.. your views carry weight than all I have been saying for a whole day

The love is UNCONDITIONAL but that is not a blank check unless you are into universalism where everybody is saved in the end and they live happily ever after

Am sure you don't consider your faith in Christ as a condition,do you?

Continuing in faith as a condition for your salvation is as conditional as having faith in the first place. Is any of these WORKS?

Bidam:
Anyway whichever way you see it i believe God's love is UNCONDITIONAL the only condition attached is rewards for good works which is fruit bearing.

shdemidemi:


The bible records two or three occasions where Paul and the other disciples took their messages to their separate audience. Paul says 'I was sent to the Gentiles', he calls himself the Apostle appointed to the Gentiles. James and Peter wrote their letters primarily to the scattered Jews, they both agreed at the conference held in Jerusalem to stay with the Jews while Paul go to the Gentiles.

Gal 2
2 I went there because God revealed to me that I should go. While I was there I met privately with those considered to be leaders of the church and shared with them [size=24pt]the message[/size] (if you are a stickler for language, you will understand 'the message' won't be used if it is exactly the same as the other message)I had been preaching to the Gentiles.

9 In fact, James, Peter,[c] and John, who were known as pillars of the church, recognized the gift God had given me, and they accepted Barnabas and me as their co-workers. [size=24pt]They encouraged us to keep preaching to the Gentiles, while they continued their work with the Jews.[/size]

OK I see, there are two ways to heaven.
1) By by grace through faith in Christ Jesus.
2) By works through works in Christ Jesus.

Wow! You know the Bible too well

Hiswordxray:

What did Jesus mean in these verses:
"5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned." (John 15:6-6)

This was a message to the nation of Israel, it is similar to what you will find in Rom 10 where Paul said they(Israel) have been cut off and replaced by a wild olive tree(Gentiles).

He said something similar in a parable in Mark 15(I think) where he talked about a tree that has refuse to bear fruit. He said the ax was set at the root, but the gardener pleaded that the tree be kept for three more years to see if it will be any better.

All of Jesus' parables were directed at the Jews, He was restricted from talking directly about the church(FAITH ALONE) because He had to die first. We can learn from those parables but they were not speaking directly to the church.

shdemidemi:


Ok o.. your views carry weight than all I have been saying for a whole day

Thanks bro..we are learning.

Hiswordxray:

OK I see, there are two ways to heaven.
1) By by grace through faith in Christ Jesus.
2) By works through works in Christ Jesus.

Wow! You know the Bible too well

Know bible ke, please o!!!

There is only one way to heaven as we speak and that is through Christ plus noting. Paul tried all he could to teach the believing Jews this gospel even in his epistles.
[size=22pt]Romans
10 Dear brothers and sisters,[a] the longing of my heart and my prayer to God is for the people of Israel to be saved. 2 I know what enthusiasm they have for God, but it is misdirected zeal. 3 For they don’t understand God’s way of making people right with himself. Refusing to accept God’s way, they cling to their own way of getting right with God by trying to keep the law. 4 For Christ has already accomplished the purpose for which the law was given.[b] As a result, all who believe in him are made right with God.[/size]

vooks:
The love is UNCONDITIONAL but that is not a blank check unless you are into universalism where everybody is saved in the end and they live happily ever after

Am sure you don't consider your faith in Christ as a condition,do you?

Continuing in faith as a condition for your salvation is as conditional as having faith in the first place. Is any of these WORKS?

Eternal life is an unconditional gift.Salvation is without good works, but unto good works.Paul prayed for the Colossians to walk worthy of God in good works, not just faith (Col 1:10).

Spewing garbage since the 60s
If John is talking about Israel, and Jesus is the Vine, what is Israel?

Secondly, the imagery of Romans is totally different from that of John. Their similarity ends with the vine.

shdemidemi:


This was a message to the nation of Israel, it is similar to what you will find in Rom 10 where Paul said they(Israel) have been cut off and replaced by a wild olive tree(Gentiles).

He said something similar in a parable in Mark 15(I think) where he talked about a tree that has refuse to bear fruit. He said the ax was set at the root, but the gardener pleaded that the tree be kept for three more years to see if it will be any better.

All of Jesus' parables were directed at the Jews, He was restricted from talking directly about the church(FAITH ALONE) because He had to die first. We can learn from those parables but they were not speaking directly to the church.

vooks:

Spewing garbage since the 60s
If John is talking about Israel, and Jesus is the Vine, what is Israel?

Secondly, the imagery of Romans is totally different from that of John. Their similarity ends with the vine.

Mr lazy critic

Israel is the branch that is to be cut off.

The onus is on you to show us the difference if there are.

Bidam my broda,
Eternal life is UNCONDITIONAL but do you need faith to access eternal life?

Bidam:
Eternal life is an unconditional gift.Salvation is without good works, but unto good works.Paul prayed for the Colossians to walk worthy of God in good works, not just faith (Col 1:10).

shdemidemi:


Know bible ke, please o!!!

There is only one way to heaven as we speak and that is through Christ plus noting. Paul tried all he could to teach the believing Jews this gospel even in his epistles.
[size=22pt]Romans
10 Dear brothers and sisters,[a] the longing of my heart and my prayer to God is for the people of Israel to be saved. 2 I know what enthusiasm they have for God, but it is misdirected zeal. 3 For they don’t understand God’s way of making people right with himself. Refusing to accept God’s way, they cling to their own way of getting right with God by trying to keep the law. 4 For Christ has already accomplished the purpose for which the law was given.[b] As a result, all who believe in him are made right with God.[/size]

So James and Peter preach the wrong gospel and Paul agree with them and allowed them preach the wrong gospel to Israelites he loves so much.

When will you see your foolishness?

vooks:
Bidam my broda,
Eternal life is UNCONDITIONAL but do you need faith to access eternal life?

Yes.God saved you through faith as an act of kindness. You had nothing to do with it. Being saved is a gift from God.Ephesians 2:8

Hiswordxray:

So James and Peter preach the wrong gospel and Paul agree with them and allowed them preach the wrong gospel to Israelites he loves so much.

When will you see your foolishness?

Don't use insult bro, we can use scripture.

James and Peter preached what they knew, what they had been taught but Paul had an encounter with Christ after all of that, where Jesus taught him what he needs him to aver.
Acts 26
12 “One day I was on such a mission to Damascus, armed with the authority and commission of the leading priests. 13 About noon, Your Majesty, as I was on the road, a light from heaven brighter than the sun shone down on me and my companions. 14 We all fell down, and I heard a voice saying to me in Aramaic,[d] ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me? It is useless for you to fight against my will.[e]’

15 “‘Who are you, lord?’ I asked.

“And the Lord replied, ‘I am Jesus, the one you are persecuting. 16 Now get to your feet! For I have appeared to you to appoint you as my servant and witness. Tell people that you have seen me, and tell them what [size=26pt]I will show you in the future[/size]. 17 And I will rescue you from both your own people and the Gentiles. Yes, [size=26pt]I am sending you to the Gentiles [/size]

shdemidemi:
Baba G, Can I disobey without losing faith?
1 Tim 2
15 But women will be saved through childbearing,[c] assuming they continue to live in faith, love, holiness, and modesty.

This is an example of where you don't play the flip side card. Well, faith here does not mean trust, it means 'trust-worthiness'/fidelity.

BabaGnoni:


ROTBL at the bold above

I feel good, after just having my breakfast, much better now
- the honey in the meal's kicked in

I wasnt comfortable with myself seeing you dug your heels in this rabbit hole

OK, yes, you can disobey without losing faith
BUT when one departs from faith, one loses faith.
That is what Adam did, he departed from the faith and disobeyed God.
Adam departed from the word of God hence he lost faith in God. He lost faith in the word of God

As I narrated in my SatNav illustration, though I was given a correct instruction, I lost faith in it by departing from my faith in it
and went ahead to disobey it's good and valid instruction because I envisaged or knew a better alternative or option

BabaGnoni:



I feel good, after just having my breakfast, much better now
- the honey in the meal's kicked in

Good for you bro.. I will be needing s'thing to gobble real soon.

BabaGnoni:

I wasnt comfortable with myself seeing you dug your heels in this rabbit hole

Hope you didn't choke though, I need to keep reading from you o..please

BabaGnoni:

OK, yes, you can disobey without losing faith

We don win jokes

BabaGnoni:

BUT when one departs from faith, one loses faith.
That is what Adam did, he departed from the faith and disobeyed God.
Adam departed from the word of God hence he lost faith in God. He lost faith in the word of God

As I narrated in my SatNav illustration, though I was given a correct instruction, I lost faith in it by departing from my faith in
and went ahead to disobey it's good and valid instruction because I envisaged a better option

Adam did not depart from faith bro, he disobeyed and he got the ramification of his action.

Disobedience today is when you don't accept Christ or believe His gospel. Once you obey you get a new spirit that can never die.

1. John is addressing those who are ALREADY in Christ and the exhortation is on them to REMAIN.

2. verse 6 and 7 makes it clear he is talking about individuals

3. Not ALL Jews received Christ so the exhortation is irrelevant for them

John 15:6-7
King James Version (KJV)
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

Look at at another very similar exhortation to verse 7

John 8:31 King James Version (KJV)

31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

So the abiding teaching is for those who BELIEVED in Jesus. Look up the Greek construction of 8:31 and 15:7 if your brains can handle that.

So it is your job to show us that such clear and personal messages are National. Start your azonto dances

shdemidemi:


Mr lazy critic

Israel is the branch that is to be cut off.

The onus is on you to show us the difference if there are.

vooks:

1. John is addressing those who are ALREADY in Christ and the exhortation is on them to REMAIN.

2. verse 6 and 7 makes it clear he is talking about individuals

John 15:6-7
King James Version (KJV)
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

Look at at another very similar exhortation to verse 7

John 8:31 King James Version (KJV)

31 [size=26pt]Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him[/size], If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

So the abiding teaching is [size=20pt]for those who BELIEVED[/size] in Jesus. Look up the Greek construction of 8:31 and 15:7 if your brains can handle that.

So it is your job to show us that such clear and personal messages are National. Start your azonto dances

Better!

Did you see the part where it says Jesus was speaking to Jews?

Do you realise Jesus instructed the disciples from taking the message of the kingdom to Gentiles at this point?

shdemidemi:


This was a message to the nation of Israel, it is similar to what you will find in Rom 10 where Paul said they(Israel) have been cut off and replaced by a wild olive tree(Gentiles).

He said something similar in a parable in Mark 15(I think) where he talked about a tree that has refuse to bear fruit. He said the ax was set at the root, but the gardener pleaded that the tree be kept for three more years to see if it will be any better.

All of Jesus' parables were directed at the Jews, He was restricted from talking directly about the church(FAITH ALONE) because He had to die first. We can learn from those parables but they were not speaking directly to the church.

"7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will b ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you."(John 15:7)
"53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is food indeed, h and My blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me." (John 6:53-57)
Those Who abide in Jesus are the Church.

Do all Israelites abide in Jesus?
Or is it only the Church that abide in Jesus?

Since the wife is one with het husband did Jesus have two bride? 1). the Church 2).Israelites.

shdemidemi:
Good for you bro.. I will be needing s'thing to gobble real soon.

I wanted solid but settled for a quickie cereal with honey and boiled egg

shdemidemi:
Hope you didn't choke though, I need to keep reading from you o..please

Ewọ! God forbid!

shdemidemi:
We don win jokes

Pop Champagne

shdemidemi:
Adam did not depart from faith bro, he disobeyed and he got the ramification of his action.

Disobedience today is when you don't accept Christ or believe His gospel.
Once you obey you get a new spirit that can never die

Interesting...
so what is the faith Adam did not depart from then bro?
What exactly is/was this faith?. Hmm?
Also apart from God earlier guaranteeing so, Adam eating the fruit or Adam disobeying God, why did Adam die?