It means NOBODY and NOTHING can separate you from God except yourself. God won't save you and keep you saved against your will.

Go back to Eden. NOTHING or NOBODY could separate Adam from God and disrupt the fellowship he had with God......not even the serpent. So the devil provoked Adam (Eve) to rebellion which essentially means Eve walked away from God.

This is repeated in Satan tempting the Second Adam. He tried to induce rebellion which would have meant Jesus rebelling against His Father. He failed

5solas:

What did He mean here:
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
John 10.

vooks:
It means NOBODY and NOTHING can separate you from God except yourself. God won't save you and keep you saved against your will.

Go back to Eden. NOTHING or NOBODY could separate Adam from God and disrupt the fellowship he had with God......not even the serpent. So the devil provoked Adam (Eve) to rebellion which essentially means Eve walked away from God.

This is repeated in Satan tempting the Second Adam. He tried to induce rebellion which would have meant Jesus rebelling against His Father. He failed

The condition for Adam's failure is disobedience to the laid down rules which says you must not 'eat', else ......

The condition for our failure is 'you must believe the gospel', else.....

Two different and distinct conditions that shouldn't be conflated.

The bible never said you can un-save yourself, especially not that verse you responded to. Don't force your spurious ideas on the Holy Scripture.

You are so overfed with Dispensationalism garbage and Scoffield junk, am not sure where to start with you.

You may as well argue that you can't send yourself to hell only that God never Elected you

Take comprehension classes and re-read my post

Thanks

shdemidemi:


The condition for Adam's failure is disobedience to the laid down rules which says you must not 'eat', else ......

The condition for our failure is 'you must believe the gospel', else.....

Two different and distinct conditions that shouldn't be conflated.

The bible never said you can in-save yourself, especially not that verse you responded to. Don't force your spurious ideas on the Holy Scripture.

shdemidemi:




Bidam!!!

Well, people like Frosbel, MostHigh, Jesusislord and their likes will flip this statement round to mean -do you mean we can start living in sin since you say we are sealed in Christ and heaven bound.

I wonder who sincerely come to God with an idea of disobeying or perpetually flouting the rules of who He decides to surrender his life to.

Read and meditate on Romans 2:7-15 and let me know what you think.

shdemidemi:




Bidam!!!

vooks:
It means NOBODY and NOTHING can separate you from God except yourself. God won't save you and keep you saved against your will.

Go back to Eden. NOTHING or NOBODY could separate Adam from God and disrupt the fellowship he had with God......not even the serpent. So the devil provoked Adam (Eve) to rebellion which essentially means Eve walked away from God.

This is repeated in Satan tempting the Second Adam. He tried to induce rebellion which would have meant Jesus rebelling against His Father. He failed

''My sheep'' concept stands against you. Not all people are His sheep! It is the character of His sheep to hear and follow Him. In that verse , He is giving them assurance that they will not be condemned and no one can do that. What is He saying to the purpose if they themselves can do that!
That is what would have needed addressing!
It is the Spirit that quickeneth! The flesh profiteth nothing! No man can come to Christ without being drawn by the Father!
''... no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. Matt. 11:27.

frosbel:


Read and meditate on Romans 2:7-15 and let me know what you think.

I am still waiting for an answer to the question I asked yesterday.. Did you miss it?

I asked if you are a sinner?

vooks:
You are so overfed with Dispensationalism garbage and Scoffield junk, am not sure where to start with you.

You may as well argue that you can't send yourself to hell only that God never Elected you

Take comprehension classes and re-read my post

Thanks

you need the class more than most on this forum. Learn to focus and deal with issues objectively and stop blackballing scriptural ideas simply because you think the probable source does not appeal to you.

Not sure what you are saying but isn't it obvious he would never talk of losing those who are not already his?

There are good reasons he asked them to ABIDE/CONTINUE in Him and went as far as explaining the consequences of not remaining him him.

Why do Christians look for license to sin without paying for it?

5solas:

''My sheep'' concept stands against you. Not all people are His sheep! It is the character of His sheep to hear and follow Him. In that verse , He is giving them assurance that they will not be condemned and no one can do that. What is He saying to the purpose if they themselves can do that!
That is what would have needed addressing!
It is the Spirit that quickeneth! The flesh profiteth nothing! No man can come to Christ without being drawn by the Father!
''... no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. Matt. 11:27.

How long are these comprehension classes taking you? By now you ought to have repented and apologised for posting with your hooves firmly in your mouth

PS:when are we demolishing the dispensationalism garbage?

shdemidemi:


you need the class more than most on this forum. Learn to focus and deal with issues objectively and stop blackballing scriptural ideas simply because you think the probable source does not appeal to you.

Goshen360:


You still don't understand this gospel. ..in the finished works of Christ, do you?...... . If I give you scriptures, can you refute the Apostolic teachings of the finished works of Christ?

oh dear, i understand the gospel of the finished work of christ, your understanding of that work applied to us is what i do not accept.

shdemidemi:




Bidam!!!

Well, people like Frosbel, MostHigh, Jesusislord and their likes will flip this statement round to mean -do you mean we can start living in sin since you say we are sealed in Christ and heaven bound.

I wonder who sincerely come to God with an idea of disobeying or perpetually flouting the rules of who He decides to surrender his life to.

And what rules are you talking about regarding disobedience and flouting?

You cannot bring yaself to say his laws.

Lawlessness is death.

shdemidemi:


I am still waiting for an answer to the question I asked yesterday.. Did you miss it?

I asked if you are a sinner?

No .

frosbel:


No .

Who is the liar, you or God?

1 John 1:8
If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth.

10 If we claim we have not sinned, we are calling God a liar and showing that his word has no place in our hearts.

Goshen360:
@ italo, so you are a sickler because you fall sick? I can't stop laughing over here.... . I know this kind of subject is bigger than some people and they will struggle to handle it....

The subject is truly bigger than people like you who laugh in ignorace because you do not know that the noun "sickler" is not from a verb "sick." It is from the word "sickle" as in "sickle cell."

A person who sins is a sinner. Come up with another ignorant defence.

Olodo.

shdemidemi:


Who is the liar, you or God?

1 John 1:8
If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth.

10 If we claim we have not sinned, we are calling God a liar and showing that his word has no place in our hearts.

Good, so I got you there, we are all sinners

Now, reconcile that to ;

1 John 3:8

frosbel:


Good, so I got you there, we are all sinners

Now, reconcile that to ;

1 John 3:8

Why reconcile when you have not explained how you are without sin going by this clear quote....

Who is the liar Frosbel, just say it?

shdemidemi:


Why reconcile when you have not explained how you are without sin..

Who is the liar Frosbel, just say it?

Do you agree that if we are all sinners in the present tense that means that we are all OF THE DEVIL according to 1 John 3:8 ?

1 John 3:8
8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.

frosbel:


Do you agree that if we are all sinners in the present tense that means that we are all OF THE DEVIL according to 1 John 3:8 ?

1 John 3:8
8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.

Absolutely! Even Jesus made it clear himself that we are evil hence why we couldn't save ourselves. None is good save Frosbel, may be.

Luke 11:13

If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

shdemidemi:

Absolutely! Even Jesus made it clear himself that we are evil hence why we couldn't save ourselves. None is good save Frosbel, may be.
Luke 11:13
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Hmm, so believers are sinners and hence evil and therefore 'of the devil' , but hold on, they are also of Christ.

Mate, your theology is upside down and seriously warped.

frosbel:


Hmm, so believers are sinners and hence evil and therefore 'of the devil' , but hold on, they are also of Christ.

Mate, your theology is upside down and seriously warped.

Noooo! Don't be like that, I didn't write it. I pasted what Jesus said about man, do you think he got it wrong? He called us evil.

Frosbel, are you good or are you a sinner?

shdemidemi:


The condition for Adam's failure is disobedience to the laid down rules which says you must not 'eat', else ......

The condition for our failure is 'you must believe the gospel', else.....

Two different and distinct conditions that shouldn't be conflated.

The bible never said you can un-save yourself, especially not that verse you responded to. Don't force your spurious ideas on the Holy Scripture.

It very clear that you Bible is different from ours so Please don't force you Bible on us.
You Jesus is different from ours.
Your Peter, James and Paul is different from ours
Even your "God" is so weak and dumb.
And your Bible is inspired by both God and Satan

We don't what that kind of a Bible so please don't impose it on us.

I'll limit myself to a few passages since much has already been quoted.

Romans 5:15-17
But the gift is not like the trespass.
For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! Nor can the
gift of God be compared with the
result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!


Romans 3:21–27

21 But now, apart from the law, God’s righteousness has been revealed — attested by the Law and the Prophets 22—that is, God’s righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ, to all who believe, since there is no distinction. 23 For all have sinned and fall short of
the glory of God. 24 They are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Him as a propitiation through faith in His blood, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His restraint God passed over the sins previously committed. 26 God presented
Him to demonstrate His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be righteous and declare righteous the one who has faith in Jesus.

Ok
The word justification is used three times in the Romans. The word group is defined in the following manner: dike (root word of the group, meaning right or just), dikaios (meaning righteously or justly), dikaiosune (meaning righteousness or justice), dikaiosis (meaning “the
act of pronouncing righteous” or acquittal), dikaioma (meaning an
ordinance, a sentence of acquittal or condemnation, a righteous deed), dikaio (meaning “to show to be righteous” or “to declare
righteous”), and dikastase (meaning “to judge” or “a judge”). It appears that the word group, when taken as a whole, can convey both a sense of righteousness and justice.

Now justification in the passages above implies that we are decleared righteous, or rather, since God will not declear righteous that which isn't, justification is that God made us righteous!

The 1st point there is that it is given as grace! It is the free, undeserving help and favour that God gives us.
2nd it is recieved by faith!
3rd, this help has been merited for us by Jesus Christ.

When God "made us righteous" or rather "decleared us righteous" somethings happened. Scriptures says.
"We are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in christ Jesus who God put forward as and expiation (atoning sacrifice for sin) by his blood"
the sacrifice that justifys us is a expiatory sacrifice, justification thus involves the remission(eph 1:7) of sin.
2nd, the imparting of God own righteousness to us, this is why it is called a rebirth!, there is a new creation (2 cor 5 :17, gal 6:15), a translation to life from death, from darkness to light. (col 1 :13).

In the christian sense justification is God's work on us that frees us from sins and impart the righteousness of God to us recieved through faith in Christ Jesus.

In another sense it is the transfering from the the state in which we were born as children of adam to a state of "fellowship", of grace, of adoption as the children of God.
Christ is now our righteousness, we now partake in his nature(1 cor 1 :30, 2pt 1: 4), friends with God and temple of his spirit.

^^^ isn't this what we have been saying all along? I thought I would read some man made addendum to complete God's free gift of salvation from you.

Ubenedictus:
I'll limit myself to a few passages since much has already been quoted.

Romans 5:15-17
But the gift is not like the trespass.
For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! Nor can the
gift of God be compared with the
result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!


Romans 3:21–27

21 But now, apart from the law, God’s righteousness has been revealed — attested by the Law and the Prophets 22—that is, God’s righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ, to all who believe, since there is no distinction. 23 For all have sinned and fall short of
the glory of God. 24 They are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Him as a propitiation through faith in His blood, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His restraint God passed over the sins previously committed. 26 God presented
Him to demonstrate His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be righteous and declare righteous the one who has faith in Jesus.

Ok
The word justification is used three times in the Romans. The word group is defined in the following manner: dike (root word of the group, meaning right or just), dikaios (meaning righteously or justly), dikaiosune (meaning righteousness or justice), dikaiosis (meaning “the
act of pronouncing righteous” or acquittal), dikaioma (meaning an
ordinance, a sentence of acquittal or condemnation, a righteous deed), dikaio (meaning “to show to be righteous” or “to declare
righteous”), and dikastase (meaning “to judge” or “a judge”). It appears that the word group, when taken as a whole, can convey both a sense of righteousness and justice.

Now justification in the passages above implies that we are decleared righteous, or rather, since God will not declear righteous that which isn't, justification is that God made us righteous!

The 1st point there is that it is given as grace! It is the free, undeserving help and favour that God gives us.
2nd it is recieved by faith!
3rd, this help has been merited for us by Jesus Christ.

When God "made us righteous" or rather "decleared us righteous" somethings happened. Scriptures says.
"We are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in christ Jesus who God put forward as and expiation (atoning sacrifice for sin) by his blood"
the sacrifice that justifys us is a expiatory sacrifice, justification thus involves the remission(eph 1:7) of sin.
2nd, the imparting of God own righteousness to us, this is why it is called a rebirth!, there is a new creation (2 cor 5 :17, gal 6:15), a translation to life from death, from darkness to light. (col 1 :13).

In the christian sense justification is God's work on us that frees us from sins and impart the righteousness of God to us recieved through faith in Christ Jesus.

In another sense it is the transfering from the the state in which we were born as children of adam to a state of "fellowship", of grace, of adoption as the children of God.
Christ is now our righteousness, we now partake in his nature(1 cor 1 :30, 2pt 1: 4), friends with God and temple of his spirit.

i'll even push it futher!

Scriptures also associates justification with baptism, when peter was asked what do we do to be saved, scriptures record.

Act 2:38 "repent and be baptised all of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin and ye shall receive the gift of the holy spirit"
in 1 cor 6: 11 st paul says "you are washed, you are sanctified, you are justified in the name of Jesus christ and the spirit of our God.

Act 22:16, paul have a even deeper teaching in Rm 6:3-11, he shows that baptism associates us with Christ death, we die in him and we are raised to new life. That i believe is the way justification is effected.

*smiles*

shdemidemi:
^^^ isn't this what we have been saying all along? I thought I would read some man made addendum to complete God's free gift of salvation from you.

Absolutely on point!

shdemidemi:
^^^ isn't this what we have been saying all along? I thought I would read some man made addendum to complete God's free gift of salvation from you.

not exactly i'm sure the next post which it seems you haven't seen will show you the first point where we differ.

shdemidemi:


You are the one doing the grouping, I have never said I am a Calvinist. I might not agree to all of his views you never know.

Can't wait to hear your views as well, I understand the part where you say it can be overwhelming arriving late to a thread as this one.

you don't need to agree with all his views, taking up his stuff on salvation suffices to make u a calvinist

Ubenedictus:


you don't need to agree with all his views, taking up his stuff on salvation suffices to make u a calvinist

John Calvin himself might not agree with him that I am Calvinist because my decision to rightly divide God's word or OSAS was not influenced by him. I don't agree with some other ideologies that is associated with the man. That we agree on one aspect of theology does not make us the same.

Ubenedictus:
not exactly i'm sure the next post which it seems you haven't seen will show you the first point where we differ.

I'm waiting.

shdemidemi:


John Calvin himself might not agree with him that I am Calvinist because my decision to rightly divide God's word or OSAS was not influenced by him. I don't agree with some other ideologies that is associated with the man. That we agree on one aspect of theology does not make us the same.

you don't need to agree with all his ideologies, the OSAS theology alone qualifies you to be a calvinist.

shdemidemi:


I'm waiting.

i have written it already, it follows my first post on justification.