This claim is made by perhaps virtually every theist that wants to offer apologetics to the question of where "god" is.

My issue with this is that,besides the fact that the doctrines involved makes no such claim(or atleast claims "god" coming from "the clouds" ).

There is virtually no way to even state whether space and time has an outside,because it(space and time) encompasses all of existence..It would be the same as claiming space has an edge.
So if space-time encompasses all of existence(as far as we can tell),then what does the theist mean by claiming "god" lies outside existence as though it were known that existence contains an "outside"..

If you would like to offer your views to this,please do.

I wonder if they reason before coming to conclusions about the features of their God. Sooner do they know that they are admitting that their God is non-existent, since He's outside existence.

davien:
This claim is made by perhaps virtually every theist that wants to offer apologetics to the question of where "god" is.

My issue with this is that,besides the fact that the doctrines involved makes no such claim(or atleast claims "god" coming from "the clouds" ).

There is virtually no way to even state whether space and time has an outside,because it(space and time) encompasses all of existence..It would be the same as claiming space has an edge.
So if space-time encompasses all of existence(as far as we can tell),then what does the theist mean by claiming "god" lies outside existence as though it were known that existence contains an "outside"..

If you would like to offer your views to this,please do.

The solar system as well as the whole galaxies can NEVER be covered by man, NEITHER its knowledge nor size. Then you cannot expect man to fathom how large it is. God is the creator of everything. Any attempt to try and measure how big God is is total madness!

Eberex:


The solar system as well as the whole galaxies can NEVER be covered by man, NEITHER its knowledge nor size. Then you cannot expect man to fathom how large it is. God is the creator of everything. Any attempt to try and measure how big God is is total madness!

please search before making broad statements...
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_System
http://www.noao.edu/education/peppercorn/pcmain.html
And if you can assert without evidence who/what made everything then I could say as well that a space-chimp made everything.

Eberex:


The solar system as well as the whole galaxies can NEVER be covered by man, NEITHER its knowledge nor size. Then you cannot expect man to fathom how large it is. God is the creator of everything. Any attempt to try and measure how big God is is total madness!

Theists are displaying total madness?

davien:
please search before making broad statements...
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_System
http://www.noao.edu/education/peppercorn/pcmain.html
And if you can assert without evidence who/what made everything then I could say as well that a space-chimp made everything.

I dont need any link to back up my saying that trying to understand God is far way beyond human intelligence

Eberex:


I dont need any link to back up my saying that trying to understand God is far way beyond human intelligence

That is because you use faith and I don't......and that is why you are more susceptible to false information.

Are we speaking about an omnipresent god here?

undercat:
Are we speaking about an omnipresent god here?

That is in itself another contradiction...so one can't say where the "god" specifically is,it could be in my poo,my bag,my nostrils etc

lolzz am here let me book space first and wait for them to anwer the question first!!!

davien:
That is in itself another contradiction...so one can't say where the "god" specifically is,it could be in my poo,my bag,my nostrils etc

Lol. My pocket sef

All is energy all is vibration It lies on your understanding of the mechansim of vibration as it relates to time. Time is the distances b/w two event but if the vibration of a thing is so high that it can vibrate for say trillions of trillions per semi-second then for such a being or thing time virtually cease for such a thing God is in such infinit vibration again God is not as it is presented by religion

Jameselias:
All is energy all is vibration It lies on your understanding of the mechansim of vibration as it relates to time. Time is the distances b/w two event but if the vibration of a thing is so high that it can vibrate for say trillions of trillions per semi-second then for such a being or thing time virtually cease for such a thing God is in such infinit vibration again God is not as it is presented by religion

.................and to add to that, God has no attribute to time.

Eberex:


.................and to add to that, God has no attribute to time.

And you know this how?

Jameselias:
All is energy all is vibration It lies on your understanding of the mechansim of vibration as it relates to time. Time is the distances b/w two event but if the vibration of a thing is so high that it can vibrate for say trillions of trillions per semi-second then for such a being or thing time virtually cease for such a thing God is in such infinit vibration again God is not as it is presented by religion

Still in the scope time .... Did you just call ur god a thing??

davien:
And you know this how?

Answer this question: Do you believe God exist

There is something about creation i've come into conclusion because i find it absolutely convincing.

Where we exist today or in short, the whole universe, is the creation and what comprises other realms of existence. Meaning, there is no such thing as 'that place where the universe exists in'!!!

Therefore, other realms of existence(existence of the absence of time and space) can be explored without leaving(if leaving is possible) the universe.

Exploring these realms does not requre the activities of the brain, neither can these realms be proved because they are beyond the limited power of the intellect.

I think GOD can reside in all realms, including that of space and time without breaking any natural law of creation.

My point here is, to understand the reality of God's existence, one has to put away the assertion that creation does not include realms other than space and time.

Jameselias:
All is energy all is vibration It lies on your understanding of the mechansim of vibration as it relates to time. Time is the distances b/w two event but if the vibration of a thing is so high that it can vibrate for say trillions of trillions per semi-second then for such a being or thing time virtually cease for such a thing God is in such infinit vibration again God is not as it is presented by religion

Good reasoning, but you fail logic. How can those words in bold be possible? Trillions of trillions of vibrations per semi-second?

BrightEye:
There is something about creation i've come into conclusion because i find it absolutely convincing.

Where we exist today or in short, the whole universe, is the creation and what comprises other realms of existence. Meaning, there is no such thing as 'that place where the universe exists in'!!!

Therefore, other realms of existence(existence of the absence of time and space) can be explored without leaving(if leaving is possible) the universe.

Exploring these realms does not requre the activities of the brain, neither can these realms be proved because they are beyond the limited power of the intellect.

I think GOD can reside in all realms, including that of space and time without breaking any natural law of creation.

My point here is, to understand the reality of God's existence, one has to put away the assertion that creation does not include realms other than space and time.

Imagination shouldn't be asserted except it's proven to be true.

davien:
This claim is made by perhaps virtually every theist that wants to offer apologetics to the question of where "god" is.

My issue with this is that,besides the fact that the doctrines involved makes no such claim(or atleast claims "god" coming from "the clouds" ).

There is virtually no way to even state whether space and time has an outside,because it(space and time) encompasses all of existence..It would be the same as claiming space has an edge.
So if space-time encompasses all of existence(as far as we can tell),then what does the theist mean by claiming "god" lies outside existence as though it were known that existence contains an "outside"..

If you would like to offer your views to this,please do.

God created time and was acting before time began:

In the beginning, God created the
heavens and the earth ( Genesis 1:1)

No, we speak of God's secret
wisdom, a wisdom that has been
hidden and that God destined for
our glory before time began. (1 Corinthians 2:7)

This grace was given us in Christ
Jesus before the beginning of
time (2 Timothy 1:9)

The hope of eternal life, which
God... promised before the
beginning of time (Titus 1:2))
To the only God our Savior,

ow does God acting before time began
get around the problem of God's
creation? There are two possible
interpretations of these verses. One is
that God exists outside of time. Since we
live in a universe of cause and effect, we
naturally assume that this is the only way
in which any kind of existence can
function. However, the premise is false.
Without the dimension of time, there is
no cause and effect, and all things that
could exist in such a realm would have
no need of being caused, but would have
always existed. Therefore, God has no
need of being created, but, in fact,
created the time dimension of our
universe specifically for a reason - so that
cause and effect would exist for us.
However, since God created time, cause
and effect would never apply to His
existence. http://www.rationalchristianity.net/uncaused_cause.html

Pr0ton:


Imagination shouldn't be asserted except it's proven to be true.

Something found to be convincing could no longer be an imagination, but maybe reality out of other realms, which couldn't be proven in the world of space and time.

Eberex:


.................and to add to that, God has no attribute to time.

God is a spirit(john 4:20) a spirit do not need matter to exist,a spirit does not bound by our understanding of time,science cannot explained the nature of God.

And what are the other realms?

Time is just an illusion created by matter and motion. If there would be no motion there would be no time.
Motion brings the idea of "space" There "must" be space for something to move in....

We, humans, conceive "space" and "time" as gigantic, infinite.....
But this is only a naive impression enslaved to our minimal dimensions.... If any....
Think of the universe as a spot in the center of the center of the center of the center of a an infinitely small point in the middle of the Nothingness!
Now imagine: How long would it take to traverse this center of centers from one side to the other? How far we would have to move?

God is "timeless" because THERE IS NO TIME!
The only REAL time is PRESENT!
If someone wants to find God he must watch the Present. The present is Eternity. It never started; it goes nowhere, it is always HERE.... Feel it!

If you want to try a different exercise then: Think of Time, Space and Matter-Motion within God.
Think of God as Absolute. Including ALL....

God can exist anywhere 'you' put him/her/it outside the space time continuum, yet don't be surprised, that those 'places' are beyond 'your' imagination, as 'you', me' and all of us 'mortals' are not capable to picture those. We already struggle to imagine a 4 dimensional space + time as its 5th, so there is not much of a point to 'imagine' any further ...

malvisguy212:
God created time and was acting before time began:

In the beginning, God created the
heavens and the earth ( Genesis 1:1)

No, we speak of God's secret
wisdom, a wisdom that has been
hidden and that God destined for
our glory before time began. (1 Corinthians 2:7)

This grace was given us in Christ
Jesus before the beginning of
time (2 Timothy 1:9)

The hope of eternal life, which
God... promised before the
beginning of time (Titus 1:2))
To the only God our Savior,

ow does God acting before time began
get around the problem of God's
creation? There are two possible
interpretations of these verses. One is
that God exists outside of time. Since we
live in a universe of cause and effect, we
naturally assume that this is the only way
in which any kind of existence can
function. However, the premise is false.
Without the dimension of time, there is
no cause and effect, and all things that
could exist in such a realm would have
no need of being caused, but would have
always existed. Therefore, God has no
need of being created, but, in fact,
created the time dimension of our
universe specifically for a reason - so that
cause and effect would exist for us.
However, since God created time, cause
and effect would never apply to His
existence. http://www.rationalchristianity.net/uncaused_cause.html

from from post, it seems your god exists in another timeline-there the time works differently from our time. That would mean your god is still bound by the space-time continuum of that timeline.
This would lead to an infinite regression of timelines and their creators

Eberex:
Time is just an illusion created by matter and motion. If there would be no motion there would be no time.
Motion brings the idea of "space" There "must" be space for something to move in....

We, humans, conceive "space" and "time" as gigantic, infinite.....
But this is only a naive impression enslaved to our minimal dimensions.... If any....
Think of the universe as a spot in the center of the center of the center of the center of a an infinitely small point in the middle of the Nothingness!
Now imagine: How long would it take to traverse this center of centers from one side to the other? How far we would have to move?

God is "timeless" because THERE IS NO TIME!
The only REAL time is PRESENT!
If someone wants to find God he must watch the Present. The present is Eternity. It never started; it goes nowhere, it is always HERE.... Feel it!

If you want to try a different exercise then: Think of Time, Space and Matter-Motion within God.
Think of God as Absolute. Including ALL....

Assumptions, yeah keep assuming, continue assuming, oh dont stop more assumptions... Hurray!!! my assumptions are true so believe!!!

johnydon22:

Assumptions, yeah keep assuming, continue assuming, oh dont stop more assumptions... Hurray!!! my assumptions are true so believe!!!

lol

Eberex:
God can exist anywhere 'you' put him/her/it outside the space time continuum, yet don't be surprised, that those 'places' are beyond 'your' imagination, as 'you', me' and all of us 'mortals' are not capable to picture those. We already struggle to imagine a 4 dimensional space + time as its 5th, so there is not much of a point to 'imagine' any further ...

lolz

Eberex:
God can exist anywhere 'you' put him/her/it outside the space time continuum, yet don't be surprised, that those 'places' are beyond 'your' imagination, as 'you', me' and all of us 'mortals' are not capable to picture those. We already struggle to imagine a 4 dimensional space + time as its 5th, so there is not much of a point to 'imagine' any further ...

just like you are imagining a super being who you like to assume exists outside the dimension of time and space!!!

johnydon22:

just like you are imagining a super being who you like to assume exists outside the dimension of time and space!!!

You can believe what so ever you want to. You can even believe he doesn't exist, who gives a poo. Just don't infect us with your unbelief

Eberex:


.................and to add to that, God has no attribute to time.

johnydon22:
Still in the scope time .... Did you just call ur god a thing??

[quote author=Eberex post=30050253] did't u see i said it is not as religion posites it to be if u think it is not a thing what is it male or female