johnydon22:

ok sir i will do just that, Just for the sake of not derailing this thread i will not reply all your above yarn
Can you now just stick to the thread and dont bring in your superstitious implausible brouhaha into it?

(i.e: Your comprehension is quite shallow, If not you wouldnt think i believe in horus.
Horus and Jesus fables are just same implausible myths, i choose to live in reality... and oh lest i forget. "when you die, you are bleeping dead and nothing more)

If you want you can open another thread on it so we can discuss it more, but please lets not derail this one

Ya, the guy is quite slow, he actually needs to go back and start from 'Obi is a Boy' . people like him is what many Nigerians are made of.

You tell him: "Jesus story is like the Horus fairy tale"

And this is what his brain interpreted: "I believe in Horus"

And you think you can go anywhere discussing with this kind of person? Am not surprised he is a Christian.

danjumakolo:


Since dude doesn't believe in god.

I see no reason why dude will post this shiit on NL.

There better atheistic sites and blogs u can post your write up.

Lol ..Nairaland is now a Christian site

You guys never cease to amaze me.

tevinsolt:

you are the one that doesn't get it. you claim there's no God and at the same time assert, morality is objective based on empathy.....most who think the same way you do at least admit if there's no God morality is subjective thus, no good or evil.

And i dont see why you would want to affiliate empathy which i pointed out as the source of human morality to a deity, thats a very big fallacy.

I have mentioned it times without number, our empathy stems from our intellect.

I dont see why you cannot view empathy independent of any deity or gods.

By contrasting our feelings to others.

You wouldn't steal cus you know it would hurt the victim.

Honestly i feel no more need to be repeating this stuffs again... am done sir

frank317:


Ya, the guy is quite slow, he actually needs to go back and start from 'Obi is a Boy' . people like him is what many Nigerians are made of.

You tell him: "Jesus story is not like the Horus fairy tale"

And this is what his brain interpreted: "I believe in Horus"

And you think you can go anywhere discussing with this kind of person? Am not surprised he is a Christian.

Seriously frank the thing just tire me eeehn...

Image123:


You see your life? Even you confess that your Muslim friend is not perfect. Nobody is perfect by himself, all have sinned and come/fall short of God's glory. As nice as your friend is, he is not good enough. BTW, believing in my God is not what makes anyone good enough.
Jam 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Yes, my Muslim friend is not perfect... How is that an issue? Are we talking of perfection? And we talking about degree of goodness? What the hell do you mean by: he is 'not good enough'? OK you now acccept he is good but not good enough?

BTW since you believe in Yahweh... Are you now perfect? If not... Why ask if another is perfect even when its not what the Op is talking about?

Upon all your noise and believe in God you are still neither good nor perfect.

dalaman:


That's what I have been saying all along. Society is what determines morality. Morality is a function and construction of human societies. According to the bible God told the Israeli to exterminate all the people whose land he gave them either for worshipping other Gods or for attacking his chosen people and sometimes just because they have inhibited the land he promised his chosen people. Many Christians try their very best to spin it around and claim it was a good action when it clearly wrong. They fail to see the bad in their own God's actions and deeds but are quick to point out that og their rival Muslim God. The winners always tell write history and try to justify their evil deeds on way or the other. America lied to the world and invade Iraq in 2003, many still belive that their invasion was justified because the history is being written by them.

I still do not what these guys are still arguing about honestly

frank317:


Lol ..Nairaland is now a Christian site

You guys never cease to amaze me.

You don see am naa frank... follow me ask the guy o

frank317:


Lol ..Nairaland is now a Christian site

You guys never cease to amaze me.

I ain't a xtian...but when u post a write up.Don't a dress it to the general readers...Your post demanded our opinion...It's would have been.better if u.had asked the opinion of free thinkers,atheists,agnoists alike

johnydon22:


Humans kill their babies too...Exactly thats what it is you just landed where i was heading all this while, All we have is highly evolved instinct or as i call it intellect and that is why we have above other animals... and that is why we know it is wrong to kill another human cus we wouldnt want another to kill us... You are just comparing human intellect and society to other animals just look around you..

lol you see now you're admitting that doing good because of fear of consequence is not selfish, and good you added humans kill their babies too (sad tho). just because you say it is wrong doesn't mean it is, why is it right to not kill and why is it wrong to kill. Ted bundy enjoyed killing (he is human) how would you incorporate something like this into your worldview where a person projects no sign of emotion or empathy.

danjumakolo:


I ain't a xtian...but when u post a write up.Don't a dress it to the general readers...Your post demanded our opinion...It's would have been.better if u.had asked the opinion of free thinkers,atheists,agnoists alike

First of all I am not the one whilo started the thread. Stop making ur assumptions ur reality...

Second this post was made in religious section. If you don't know, religious section is not for only Christians or Muslims. If where anyone one who has questions relation to God and religion comes. He didn't post it in political section.

Even many Christians here are free to ask the same question in their Church.... Would you drive such a person if you are the pastor of the church?

danjumakolo:


I ain't a xtian...but when u post a write up.Don't a dress it to the general readers...Your post demanded our opinion...It's would have been.better if u.had asked the opinion of free thinkers,atheists,agnoists alike

First of all I am not the one who started the thread. Stop making ur assumptions ur reality...

Second this post was made in religion section. If you don't know, religious section is not for only Christians or Muslims. It is where anyone one who has questions relating to God and religion comes. He didn't post it in political section. And its really not ur business what he believes in. Your own is to answer or ignore it.

Even many Christians here are free to ask the same question in their Church.... Would you drive such a person if you are the pastor of the church?

dalaman:


That's what I have been saying all along. Society is what determines morality. Morality is a function and construction of human societies. According to the bible God told the Israeli to exterminate all the people whose land he gave them either for worshipping other Gods or for attacking his chosen people and sometimes just because they have inhibited the land he promised his chosen people. Many Christians try their very best to spin it around and claim it was a good action when it clearly wrong. They fail to see the bad in their own God's actions and deeds but are quick to point out that og their rival Muslim God. The winners always tell write history and try to justify their evil deeds on way or the other. America lied to the world and invade Iraq in 2003, many still belive that their invasion was justified because the history is being written by them.

how can you in the same paragraph claim morality is subjective and then still say an action is wrong. If believe eating rice is wrong and but you don't, none of us is neither right nor wrong. you can't a line crooked unless you have some idea of a straight line

johnydon22:


And i dont see why you would want to affiliate empathy which i pointed out as the source of human morality to a deity, thats a very big fallacy.

I have mentioned it times without number, our empathy stems from our intellect.

I dont see why you cannot view empathy independent of any deity or gods.

By contrasting our feelings to others.

You wouldn't steal cus you know it would hurt the victim.

Honestly i feel no more need to be repeating this stuffs again... am done sir

No I wouldn't steal If I knew I would hurt the victim, meaning I might have been stolen from in the past to know it isn't beneficial. but If i did anyways what is wrong with not showing empathy?

tevinsolt:


how can you in the same paragraph claim morality is subjective and then still say an action is wrong. If believe eating rice is wrong and but you don't, none of us is neither right nor wrong. you can't a line crooked unless you have some idea of a straight line

Why are we having problems in the world today if all of us agree on the same moral principles? Morality is subjective. Gay union is wrong in Nigeria but not wrong in most part of European Union for example. In America I can stand my ground and kill you if I feel threatened by your actions. In Nigeria it's even wrong for me as a civilian to own a gun. Women are not allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia while women are allowed to marry more than one man among some tribes living in the Amazon. Who told you that morality isn't subjective? Where is your evidence for that?

dalaman:


Why are we having problems in the world today if all of us agree on the same moral principles? Morality is subjective. Gay union is wrong in Nigeria but not wrong in most part of European Union for example. In America I can stand my ground and kill you if I feel threatened by your actions. In Nigeria it's even wrong for me as a civilian to own a gun. Women are not allowed to drive in Saudi Arabi while women are allowed to marry more tham one man in among some tribes living in the Amazon. Who told you that morality isn't subjective? Where is your evidence for that?

to save us the back and forth, if morality is subjective, there's no right and wrong, it is just what it is. Everyone believes their morality is the truth.

frank317:


First of all I am not the one who started the thread. Stop making ur assumptions ur reality...

Second this post was made in religion section. If you don't know, religious section is not for only Christians or Muslims. It is where anyone one who has questions relating to God and religion comes. He didn't post it in political section. And its really not ur business what he believes in. Your own is to answer or ignore it.

Even many Christians here are free to ask the same question in their Church.... Would you drive such a person if you are the pastor of the church?

Sorry I taught u started the thread.

Religious section is for Muslims and xtians.Why should th op send this thrash to religious section when he knows he does not believe in god.

I think dude is only being a troll

tevinsolt:


to save us the back and forth, if morality is subjective, there's no right and wrong, it is just what it is. Everyone believes their morality is the truth.

There is right and wrong according to how people define it. Muslims believe that the Sharia system of morality is the best system of morality because the system came from God himself. Majority of the people living in the world disagree. Christians believe that the moral principles written inside the bible is the best. Alot of people disagree as well. What does it mean to be good with God. You haven't demonstrated that to me. Morality is a human creation it has nothing to do with God. Gods are used only as an enforcing mechanism when human create their different moral codes of conduct. In advance societies government is the enforcing mechanism.

dalaman:


Goodness is determined by which God? Allah, Brahma, Yahweh, Rah Amun? Which God exactly because we know that goodness and morality as a whole has been shown to have evolved over time among the human race. Conquered races take up the culture of their masters. You are yet to show how God alone has determined what goodness is why it is true. Many moral injunctionss and principles written inside the bible are considered to be bad in many societies including christian societies. There are no moral absolutes in this world. Societies through various leaders (political and religious )determine what is right or wrong. No God has ever been shown to give any law to any society rather people make laws for themselves and use their various ideas amd concept of God and government as an enforcing mechanism. Goodness is a creation of men it has nothing to do with God Since there are many different Gods each with different concept of goodness.

Goodness is determined by the Living God, find Him. So to you, goodness and morality evolves? Well to my God, it is the same to a large extent. The contents of the Bible remain unchanged and unrevised.
Psa 119:89 Forever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.

Anything that is truly goodness has already been determined by God and is seen in the Bible or alluded to. Also, the fellowship of God's Spirit tally with and reinforce to the individual worshipper, the fact that God has set the world in our hearts and determined what is good and best for us. What moral injunctionss and principles written inside the bible are considered to be bad in many societies including christian societies. Kindly mention three? There are moral absolutes in God. Only folks who do not know God will say that there are no moral absolutes. So that tomorrow, if the society evolves to nudity for instance, they are okay with it. What you are saying is what i have being telling johnydon22 so that he can tell us his own version of morality instead of vaguely implying that everybody has the same standard of what good is. So in some places in Nigeria and Egypt, some leaders are bringing some humans to think that it is good to blow up themselves and kill people because they belong to another religion. Imagine if all religions and irreligions are that way, thinking/feeling it good to kill people that are not on their side. That is chaos, not morality. This is why it is important to have one standard, an higher umpire and moral law giver.
i believe and the Israelites believe that God gave them laws. You do not have all the knowledge and facts as to just say otherwise. i cannot take your word by faith, i'd rather take the words of the Bible by faith instead. So, if you have anything significant to say, you say it with facts and evidence. We are the believers, not you.

frank317:


Yes, my Muslim friend is not perfect... How is that an issue? Are we talking of perfection? And we talking about degree of goodness? What the hell do you mean by: he is 'not good enough'? OK you now acccept he is good but not good enough?

BTW since you believe in Yahweh... Are you now perfect? If not... Why ask if another is perfect even when its not what the Op is talking about?

Upon all your noise and believe in God you are still neither good nor perfect.

Hehehehe, your muslim friend is not perfect, that is the main issue. Doing good is not rocket science. i have said that doing good is not what makes us good. The expectation is perfection.
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Phi 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

i am perfect. Of course i expect that as we share differing definitions for "good", we will also share differing definitions for "perfect". It goes without saying that only God can make one perfect. Nobody is good except God. God made man good but he fell long time ago. Today, God makes man perfect. Your good deeds are simply not good enough. Of course, i am not saying that one should not do good works. In fact, God's work in us empowers us to do good works. i say it in all humility that not only does God make me perfect, unbelievers do not surpass me in good deeds, neither am i good for nothing.

tevinsolt:


No I wouldn't steal If I knew I would hurt the victim, meaning I might have been stolen from in the past to know it isn't beneficial. but If i did anyways what is wrong with not showing empathy?

The wrong in it is because it affects the other negatively...
The victim is hurting and that is what is wrong with it.

Let me tell you a short story about THE HUMAN QUEST FOR GOOD:
Human have knowledge of good and evil.

Human have the desire to do good.

Human didn't know that he/she lacks the ability to always do good, so human try to do good.

Human realize that in the attempt of doing good there is more failure than success. Probably because human is not good but only have the knowledge of good.

The foolish ones are satisfied with the little good they are able to do, they ignore the fact that their failures is more than their success and they focus only on their little success and boast of it.

Wise humans try to find out the reason why their failure are far more than their success.

In their search they discovered that it is not in human nature to always do good and in fact there is a fine mixture of evil and selfishness in every good they do.

The wise later discovered that the only way to always do good is changing the human nature. But the question is how?

Wise human find Christ and discovered that Christ is the life that will enable human to always do good.

At the end wise human believe and receive the life of God which is Christ. And learn to life by this life or nature.

THE END

danjumakolo:


Sorry I taught u started the thread.

Religious section is for Muslims and xtians.Why should th op send this thrash to religious section when he knows he does not believe in god.
N
I think dude is only being a troll

Its called freedom of speech. The last time I checked there was no law stating the such questions shouldn't be asked in religion section of Nairaland.

Besides the question was opened to both Christians and other beliefs... Should he have posted it in political section instead?

If he actually does not believe in God (even though he never said so), religious section is the right place for him to express his disbelief.

tevinsolt:

lol you see now you're admitting that doing good because of fear of consequence is not selfish, and good you added humans kill their babies too (sad tho). just because you say it is wrong doesn't mean it is, why is it right to not kill and why is it wrong to kill. Ted bundy enjoyed killing (he is human) how would you incorporate something like this into your worldview where a person projects no sign of emotion or empathy.

omfg... whats wrong with these guys comprehension tho :[...

Biko eeehn bros i am done with you ... thank you....

You see addressing this moniker again is still giving answers that i have already given and i am tired of it.

Image123:


Hehehehe, your muslim friend is not perfect, that is the main issue. Doing good is not rocket science. i have said that doing good is not what makes us good. The expectation is perfection.
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Phi 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

i am perfect. Of course i expect that as we share differing definitions for "good", we will also share differing definitions for "perfect". It goes without saying that only God can make one perfect. Nobody is good except God. God made man good but he fell long time ago. Today, God makes man perfect. Your good deeds are simply not good enough. Of course, i am not saying that one should not do good works. In fact, God's work in us empowers us to do good works. i say it in all humility that not only does God make me perfect, unbelievers do not surpass me in good deeds, neither am i good for nothing.

You are perfect? See your mouth like perfect.

Your God has been making man perfect since 2000years ago, I am yet to see one perfect person. As usual, he goes into another failed venture just like he did with the angel, Adams and eve, destruction of earth with water and killing of his son.

I am not going into any definition of terms with you. If you don't know what it means to be good or what perfection is, then you shouldnt be here in the first place.

And yes my friend might not be perfect, but he is good. I am yet to even see a Christian as Good as he is, so go tell your own God to try harder.

johnydon22:


And i dont see why you would want to affiliate empathy which i pointed out as the source of human morality to a deity, thats a very big fallacy.

I have mentioned it times without number, our empathy stems from our intellect.

I dont see why you cannot view empathy independent of any deity or gods.

By contrasting our feelings to others.

You wouldn't steal cus you know it would hurt the victim.

Honestly i feel no more need to be repeating this stuffs again... am done sir

Empathy does not stem from intellect. They are two different things though both function in the mind. Empathy can be very fickle and changing, unlike intellect. Someone with great intellect has great intellect simple. But empathy is different. Two intellectuals may share different and divergent empathies. One person can even have different empathy depending on time and circumstance. Intellect is not that fickle. There are brilliant criminals, and intellectual despots, your empathy is not determined by how intellectual you are. Emotion and love and empathy anybody can have and display. they are not necessarily a result of careful thought or intelligence. You do not see stealing as a good thing, some people see it as fun, or as a job or even as a way of life. Maybe you do not like abortion, some people have no problem with it, in fact they have reasonable arguments for it. Maybe you do not like or feel good about boko haram or isis. There are people who see absolutely nothing wrong with it. There are people who preach it and think it is the moral thing to do. Everybody is not like you, not everybody shares your worldview as much as you might want it so. That is why it is pertinent to have ONE moral law giver, which we preach to be God.

Hiswordxray:
Let me tell you a short story about THE HUMAN QUEST FOR GOOD:
Human have knowledge of good and evil.

Human have the desire to do good.

Human didn't know that he/she lacks the ability to always do good, so human try to do good.

Human realize that in the attempt of doing good there is more failure than success. Probably because human is not good but only have the knowledge of good.

The foolish ones are satisfied with the little good they are able to do, they ignore the fact that their failures is more than their success and they focus only on their little success and boast of it.

Wise humans try to find out the reason why their failure are far more than their success.

In their search they discovered that it is not in human nature to always do good and in fact there is a fine mixture of evil and selfishness in every good they do.

The wise later discovered that the only way to always do good is changing the human nature. But the question is how?

Wise human find Christ and discovered that Christ is the life that will enable human to always do good.

At the end wise human believe and receive the life of God which is Christ. And learn to life by this life or nature.

THE END

Interesting story with no morale.

Can you just tell me what good ya all that claim to have find Christ do that is different from the good that Muslims or atheist do.

danjumakolo:


Sorry I taught u started the thread.

Religious section is for Muslims and xtians.Why should th op send this thrash to religious section when he knows he does not believe in god.

I think dude is only being a troll

So if I can't post dis in d religion section, where would u ve suggest I post it!! It seems u ve notin else to Contribute here. Go and Sleep Ogbeni!!

frank317:


You are perfect? See your mouth like perfect.

Your God has been making man perfect since 2000years ago, I am yet to see one perfect person. As usual, he goes into another failed venture just like he did with the angel, Adams and eve, destruction of earth with water and killing of his son.

I am not going into any definition of terms with you. If you don't know what it means to be good or what perfection is, then you shouldnt be here in the first place.

And yes my friend might not be perfect, but he is good. I am yet to even see a Christian as Good as he is, so go tell your own God to try harder.

You are an ignorant man and you just confirmed it by your post. Like i said, i do not expect us to share the same definition of "perfect". Your assumptions/allegations about God are wrong and a figment of faulty imagination. Your friend is not good, neither are you. i may not deny that he has done some good deeds however.

frank317:

religious section is the right place for him to express his disbelief.

Or rather religion section is the right place to pour out his vexation for God, to express his anger towards God and to deal with the Christians who are constantly torturing him with the truth.

Let me propose a simpler way:
Why not tell us what God did that make you angry?

frank317:



Its called freedom of speech. The last time I checked there was no law stating the such questions shouldn't be asked in religion section of Nairaland.

Besides the question was opened to both Christians and other beliefs... Should he have posted it in political section instead?

If he actually does not believe in God (even though he never said so), religious section is the right place for him to express his disbelief.

Abeg help me tell am!! God Bless you for This your reply to the Dumb guy!!

frank317:


Interesting story with no morale.

Can you just tell me what good ya all that claim to have find Christ do that is different from the good that Muslims or atheist do.

Pure good that doesn't not desire popularity or fame.
A good that is helping the world in a way the world doesn't recognize nor reward those who does them. But Instead the world foolishly rewards those who brings destruction to the world with their foolishness.

i for one is tired of all this going in circles....