DProDG:


Idridmusty97 ^^^

Lol .

God is a spirit. That does not have a beginning neither will it have an ending. It exist on its own.

Has it ever occurred to people who wants to make everyone believe in the God concept (especially as it relates to Islam and Christianity) that everything and anything that speaks about God is found in the Bible or Koran which in itself was written by man/men?

Suppose God exists, isn't it better that "he" will reveal himself by himself in ways that is undisputable? I'm not talking about abstract things like air we breathe, nature or designs.

Modern knowledge can be known through books. Scientists and historians wrote books or passed on their knowledge through other concrete means like pictures, hieroglyphics or oral traditions. But we only know about God through the writings of men who at no time saw God or even pretended to have seen him. We are supposed to believe God exists based on the conjectures (and philosophy) of some very long dead individuals who were trying to find a meaning to life without the aid of modern science.

The closest we read about anyone seeing God is Moses in the Bible. Even then, he didn't see him. We are supposed to belief God is a spirit, nobody can see him.

Yet, we are supposed to believe God exists. That he made all the heavens and the earth. God is so wise that he created Satan to destroy most if not all of what he had created. What's the point? I created you and also created Satan to doom you if you don't believe I created you? That doesn't sound like intelligence to me. Sounds like what a toddler will do to a sand Castle he built by himself.


Let me ask the OP question again: Who created God?


My answer? Man.

Idrismusty97:
This is like the 10th person who have said this or something similar in this thread. Now you see why we say religion limits ones reasoning capability? These are the same people who claim there gods gave then "freewill". It isn't as if theists are dumb, but any theist who dares think outside the box risk sinning against the Almighty omnipotent who pop out from nowhere.

my people perish.. NOT because of anyTHING but because of LACK OF KNOWLEDGE.. #ADOYII.. every GOD'S thing doesn't make sense to the world.. It is only the GOD addicted that see sense in it..

idiotic question ever!

atheists at it again.

mmsen:


All gods have the same origins - the imagination of man.

Come up with facts and figures, other wise just blow whistle instead of uttering philosophical mumbo jumbos.

Am i the only one that noticed the stupi.dity behind the question. The question doesn't even make sense. not intelligent at all.

Where was God coming from?

Who created God?

Are these supposed to be reasonable questions?

Not here to argue but to remind u ppl dt God gave u functional Brain n u are misusing it....If a witch/wizard TREAT UR FUCKUP u go know dt Dearis God ooo.....
my take!

OBlaize:



Come up with facts and figures, other wise just blow whistle instead of uttering philosophical mumbo jumbos.

Atheists are very unintelligent people with no common sense. They are trying hard to make us think otherwise.

Volksfuhrer:


You are very funny...I tried not to laugh at this, but I just could not. In fact, I'm still laughing as I type this.

I don't know why people waste time on proving things that do not fall within the boundaries of logic. No statement of fact or logical system can either prove or refute the existence of God.

Many great philosophers from Anselm to Immanuel Kant tried and failed. The existence of God is solely a matter of faith, nothing more!

lolzzz when you cannot even prove it... Prove it first

Who Created God?

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said that some people would ask this very question: "A day will certainly come when some people will sit with their legs crossed and ask: 'If God created everything, who created God?'" (Al-Bukhari)
At best, the question is based on perceived "cause and effect" relationships. Everything can be thought of as an effect and attributed to a prior cause that, in turn, is attributed to a prior cause, and so on.

However, we must remember that cause is only a hypothesis, for it has no objective existence. All that objectively exists is a particular sequence of circumstances that is often (but not always) repeated. If such a hypothesis is applied to existence, we cannot find a creator of the first cause, because each creator must have had a prior creator. The end result is a never-ending chain of creators.

The Creator must be Self-Subsistent and One, without like or equal. If any created being "causes" anything, that capacity "to cause" was created within that being, for only the Creator is Self-Existent and Self-Subsistent.

Only the Creator truly creates and determines possible causes and effects for His creation. Therefore, we speak of God as the Sustainer, who holds and gives life to all of His Creation.

All causes begin in Him, and all effects end in Him. In truth, created things are "0"s that will never add up to anything, unless God bestows real value or existence by placing a positive "1" before the "0".

In the sphere of existence, what we call causes and effects have no direct or independent influence. We may have to use such words to understand how a part of creation is made intelligible to us and available for our use.
But even this confirms our dependence upon God and our answerability before Him. God does not need causes and effects to create; rather, we need them to understand what He has created.

The futile notion of a never-ending chain of creators was one of the arguments used by Muslim theologians to explain the necessity of believing in God.
To be continue......

mmsen:
'God' was created after mankind, by mankind.

So who creatd mankind ?

oluamid:
Has it ever occurred to people who wants to make everyone believe in the God concept (especially as it relates to Islam and Christianity) that everything and anything that speaks about God is found in the Bible or Koran which in itself was written by man/men?

Suppose God exists, isn't it better that "he" will reveal himself by himself in ways that is undisputable? I'm not talking about abstract things like air we breathe, nature or designs.

Modern knowledge can be known through books. Scientists and historians wrote books or passed on their knowledge through other concrete means like pictures, hieroglyphics or oral traditions. But we only know about God through the writings of men who at no time saw God or even pretended to have seen him. We are supposed to believe God exists based on the conjectures (and philosophy) of some very long dead individuals who were trying to find a meaning to life without the aid of modern science.

The closest we read about anyone seeing God is Moses in the Bible. Even then, he didn't see him. We are supposed to belief God is a spirit, nobody can see him.

Yet, we are supposed to believe God exists. That he made all the heavens and the earth. God is so wise that he created Satan to destroy most if not all of what he had created. What's the point? I created you and also created Satan to doom you if you don't believe I created you? That doesn't sound like intelligence to me. Sounds like what a toddler will do to a sand Castle he built by himself.


Let me ask the OP question again: Who created God?


My answer? Man.

crap. Who believes this rubbish?

if he just had one, then he wouldn't be called GOD.

An2elect2:

crap. Who believes this rubbish?

why don't you refute it using argument and not trolling... let me see you try

hustla:


You have failed to answer the simple question

WHO CREATED GOD


Just give a simple answer, dont come and start typing super story
If na Jona, talk am, if na Buhari, talk am. Argue with facts and ideas... not all this gibberish talk

I am not an atheist oo, Just saying my own

BUT YOU QUOTED "GOD IS AN UNCREATED CREATOR" IN MY POST. THIS FACT MAKES THE QUESTION ON GROUND ILLOGICAL! or am i too high?

johnydon22:


why don't you refute it using argument and not trolling... let me see you try

You don't need facts man, what you need is to get your common sense back, even if it means fighting for it! common now

KingEbukasBlog:


God created life out of nothing through the spoken word . matter existed in its "spiritual form" , but made physical by His Word .Read up Mormon cosmology for further studies , be smart enough and sieve the part you need to understand what I mean though .

Ok since we are now asking questions ... what existed before the big bang that led to its cause ?Oh wait ... Offcourse emotions( to love , to care , to be sad , happy ) , memory (evolution knows you need to remember past deeds), skill , DNA, the skeletal system , the nervous system( the brain ) , male , female the,.. the man has a joystick ,the woman has the vj (because evolution knew the man has a joystick , so it gave a hole to the woman as the vj for sex , same for other animals too ...woow ) ,the sperm , the egg , the baby forms in a womb !!! mosquito , trees , fruits (cos evolution knows you'll eat , right? ) , vegetables (cos evolution knows you need to be healthy ) , legs (cos it knows you need to get your butt up and walk !!!) , evolution gave you a mouth through which you'll eat the fruits that was part of the process and off course to communicate with other evolved beings which turned out to be humans , nose (oh , cos it knows you'd smell and breath) and it randomly chose oxygen ... I get it , trust me ... its all evolution ... some mistake ...I get it bro ... I get it

You don't know shit about EVOLUTION.

Why Can't We See God?

God is absolutely other than His creation, for the Creator cannot have the same kind of being as His creation. Although this is self-evident, some people still ask why we cannot see God directly.
Direct vision is very limited. Consider the following: A tooth contains innumerable bacteria. No bacteria is aware of the tooth in which it lives, for that would mean that it has removed itself from the tooth and used some artificial means (e.g., telescopes and microscopes) to obtain an approximate idea of the tooth's surroundings and its relationship to the human body. Even if this were possible, such awareness would not mean understanding.

Our senses are in a similar situation. We know a great deal about our environment, but all of our knowledge is just a minute fragment of the whole. However, our knowledge is conditioned by understanding. We need to have a general idea about what we see in order to understand it. For example, how could we make sense of a tree without some prior idea, no matter how vague, of it? Given such limitations, how can we know or see the Creator of everything?

As created and finite beings, our potential and capacity are limited. Our Creator, on the other hand, is Infinite. We live and die within His creation, strive for understanding and virtue, and seek our salvation by His Mercy.

Prophet Muhammad said: "Compared with the Seat of Honor, the whole universe is as small as a ring thrown upon a desert. Similarly, compared with the Throne, the Seat of Honor is as small as a ring thrown upon the desert." (Tafsir At-Tabari 3:77)

These statements show just how far His Infinitude exceeds our power of apprehending it. If we cannot conceive of the reality of the Seat of Honor and the Throne, how can we even begin to conceive of Him?

In the Quran we read what means,

{Vision comprehends Him not, but He comprehends all vision} (Al-An`am 6:103)

After the Prophet's ascent to the heavens, his Companions asked him if he had seen God. Abu Dharr (a Companion of the Prophet) reported that, on one occasion, he answered: "What I saw was the Light. How could I see Him?" (Muslim)

On another occasion he answered: "I saw a Light." (Muslim) These statements clarify the well-known saying: "The light is the limit or veil of God." (Muslim)

This light, which He created, stands between us and God. We can only see by within that light, which makes limited sight possible, and also shields or veils us from God. Just as we see only a part of it, we also see only a part of what veils Him.

Consider the matter from another angle. Ibrahim Haqqi, a Muslim thinker, says,

In all of creation, there is nothing like, equal, or contrary to God. God is above all form. Indeed, He is immune to and free of form." We can distinguish different things only because they have a like, an equal, or a contrary thing. For example, we know "long" by comparing it to "short." In the absence of such means of comparison, as in the case of God, we have no way to compare or distinguish. This is the meaning of "God is above all form.

Those who ask to see God directly seek to think of or know His Being directly. Just as we cannot see Him, we cannot think of or know His Being, for He is beyond all form, quality, quantity, and human conception or reasoning.

In the words of Muslim theologians: "Whatever conception of God we form in our minds, He is other than it." And the Sufis say: "God is beyond all our conceptions, and we are surrounded by thousands of veils."

Men and women of wisdom have said that God exists but cannot be comprehended by human reason or perceived by human senses. The only way to acquire knowledge of Him is through the Prophets, whom He appointed as bearers of His Revelation. Given this, we must accept the guidance of Revelation if we want to know about Him.

Consider the following analogy. Imagine that you are in a closed room. When someone knocks on the door, you might be able to form some vague impressions about who is knocking.

However, you can only guess at his or her attributes. All that you know for certain is that someone is knocking. You can open the door and ask the person knocking to make himself or herself known to you. In this way, you can acquire more accurate knowledge of his or her true attributes.

This analogy helps us approach the question of how to seek God. Look at creation. Its sheer immensity, unity of form, beauty and harmony, usefulness and demands upon our labor and understanding make us aware of the Creator's existence.

When we see a wide range of diverse fabrics produced from a single material, we know that someone has produced it, for we understand that it could not have produced itself. Similarly, we can deduce from what we can see of this creation that someone — the Creator — has made it.

But this is where the similarity ends. While we can find those who made the fabric and persuade them to make themselves known to us, we cannot do so with the Creator.

This would be like the pieces of fabric demanding that their producers reveal themselves. Clearly, such a thing is impossible. Without assistance from the Creator, all we can do is speculate about who is knocking.

What opens this door for us is revelation. Through God's revelation to the Prophets and their teaching, we can respond to creation as signs manifesting the Creator's existence and attributes.

Through the prophets, we learn to contemplate and call upon His attributes. A true understanding of them requires that we follow the way of the Prophets: inner experience and contemplation, which can be achieved only by our sincere and total observance of the divine decrees, objective study, and profound meditation.

If our inner faculties are not developed, we cannot grasp the meaning of creation and so cannot contemplate the divine attributes manifested within creation.

Even then, it is not possible for just anyone to comprehend the Divine Essence. That is why it is said: "His Names are known, His Attributes are comprehended, and His Essence exists."

In the words of one of the Companions, Abu Bakr: "To comprehend His Essence means to confess that His Essence cannot be comprehended."

The duty of believers is to remain committed to their covenant with God, and to beseech Him as follows:

O You alone who are worshipped. We cannot attain to true knowledge of You, yet we believe that You are nearer to us than our jugular veins. We feel Your existence and nearness in the depths of our hearts through the universe, which You created and opened to us like a book, and through the wonderful harmony of form between all parts of Your creation.

We come to perceive that we are integrated into the whole realm of Your theophanies, and thus our souls are rested and consoled, and our hearts find serenity.

An2elect2:


You don't need facts man, what you need is to get your common sense back, even if it means fighting for it! common now

You see? You are just here to troll... you don't need facts what you need is common sense that makes you believe Donkeys can talk.. now thats really common..

No thank you i'd rather have uncommon sense... now run along if you don't have any argument to present...

it is a sin to start imagine who created God,there are something's beyond our imagination,

KingEbukasBlog:


LOL Its hilarious to see how people believe nothing can create something so insanely complex as life, the cosmos, CONSCIOUSNESS, A CARDIOVASCULAR SYSTEM, DNA OH WAIT TO A POINT WHERE EVERYTHING IN LIFE AND THE UNIVERSE IS EVEN SYMMETRICAL?! You expect me to believe nothing created that? LOL I don't have enough faith to think millions of accidents just took place at the right time. Of course there is a Creator.

Anything you can't explain means your sky daddy created ( is responsible for ) it , utter rubbish.

An2elect2:


Atheists are very unintelligent people with no common sense. They are trying hard to make us think otherwise.

Refusing to think otherwise even makes you less intelligent. It shows how religion has deeply concocted and restricted people's reasoning capacity. Quite severe is the fact that you have no clue about the origination of your so called God, yet you waste time, energy and resources to uphold him.
To me, that's the height of unintelligent reasoning.

DProDG:


Your silly questions clearly show you lack basic understanding of the big bang and evolution. I usually avoid using simple grammar when discussing science related topics(for obvious reason) but since you do not want "hard grammar", okay...

The joystick(penis) changed(evolved) along with the vj(vagina), in every animal(specie). That is the reason they go together. One relies on the other(they are interdependent).

The big bang & evolution did not "know" anything. Animals(life) changed(evolved) to fit into their surroundings. Animals that live in ice grew fur, those in water, gills etc. In short, animals(and plants) did not have what they needed provided for them by the big bang(or God) but evolved structures to survive according to their surrounding(environment). The known requirements(criteria) for life has changed several times. We(scientists) all thought that life could not exist up-up(troposphere), 100feet under ice, 1000s of meters in the oceans etc. Here's an analogy to help you understand what I mean. The pothole in the ground left after a rain was not designed* for the water, but yet it fits perfectly OR the crack in the ground was not designed* for a flower but yet it grows out of it and survives perfectly.

"God exists outside space and time" is only an assertion and remains that until there is empirical evidence that supports it. You're free to believe whatever you want but leave it at that, faith. Bringing it into science usually ends up futile.

wow,dats a nice piece of gibberish u gat up there man,I mean ur basic life is rooted deep in science and its lies,y'al keep screaming evolution,the big bang theory,bleh bleh bleh in draculas voice,we have tons of theories postulated by humans,the nebular hypothesis,the big bang theory and lots more,but scientist later adopted d big bang theory cuz twas d most sensible of all,then d question arose about life,cuz there was no way on mother earth that any living creature wud av survived d big bang,there was no explanation for that save evolution? I mean do u atheists think atall? When I was 4-6yrs I was outside wit ma dad at night looking up I tried counting d stars but they obviously filled d entire horizon,so I asked dad dis same question d op is asking,if adam and eve was d first human on earth and GOD created them,"WHO CREATED GOD" he was shocked,then he told me "I have no answer to that and u'v gat to stop asking that kinda question cuz some spiritual things are hidden to man"his answer didn't curb ma curiosity cuz I never was a religious fanatic right from ma childhood,all dose sunday school teachings were like mere stories to me and nfn more,but growing up and acquiring basic knowledge I realized all d theories postulated by science didn't add up in a sensible manner,they were all guess works,and from men,humans aint 100percent efficient definitely dia will be flaws,right there I stood a ground"THERE IS A SUPREME BEING OUT THERE" eventhough I might nt end up serving him d way I should cuz I don't dig religion,so y'al atheist shud. Make ur decision and arguement personal nt cuz science,evolution,paleontology says d earth was formed by a cluster of gases,who made d gases?who gave life?who gave the breath in u?do u know ur final destination when u close ur eyes in death?why do we even die?who made the oceans,who made d lands?evolution?big bang theory?ur pops? Nah ion think so!

DProDG:


Your silly questions clearly show you lack basic understanding of the big bang and evolution. I usually avoid using simple grammar when discussing science related topics(for obvious reason) but since you do not want "hard grammar", okay...

The joystick(penis) changed(evolved) along with the vj(vagina), in every animal(specie). That is the reason they go together. One relies on the other(they are interdependent).

The big bang & evolution did not "know" anything. Animals(life) changed(evolved) to fit into their surroundings. Animals that live in ice grew fur, those in water, gills etc. In short, animals(and plants) did not have what they needed provided for them by the big bang(or God) but evolved structures to survive according to their surrounding(environment). The known requirements(criteria) for life has changed several times. We(scientists) all thought that life could not exist up-up(troposphere), 100feet under ice, 1000s of meters in the oceans etc. Here's an analogy to help you understand what I mean. The pothole in the ground left after a rain was not designed* for the water, but yet it fits perfectly OR the crack in the ground was not designed* for a flower but yet it grows out of it and survives perfectly.

"God exists outside space and time" is only an assertion and remains that until there is empirical evidence that supports it. You're free to believe whatever you want but leave it at that, faith. Bringing it into science usually ends up futile.

wow,dats a nice piece of gibberish u gat up there man,I mean ur basic life is rooted deep in science and its lies,y'al keep screaming evolution,the big bang theory,bleh bleh bleh in draculas voice,we have tons of theories postulated by humans,the nebular hypothesis,the big bang theory and lots more,but scientist later adopted d big bang theory cuz twas d most sensible of all,then d question arose about life,cuz there was no way on mother earth that any living creature wud av survived d big bang,there was no explanation for that save evolution? I mean do u atheists think atall? When I was 4-6yrs I was outside wit ma dad at night looking up I tried counting d stars but they obviously filled d entire horizon,so I asked dad dis same question d op is asking,if adam and eve was d first human on earth and GOD created them,"WHO CREATED GOD" he was shocked,then he told me "I have no answer to that and u'v gat to stop asking that kinda question cuz some spiritual things are hidden to man"his answer didn't curb ma curiosity cuz I never was a religious fanatic right from ma childhood,all dose sunday school teachings were like mere stories to me and nfn more,but growing up and acquiring basic knowledge I realized all d theories postulated by science didn't add up in a sensible manner,they were all guess works,and from men,humans aint 100percent efficient definitely dia will be flaws,right there I stood a ground"THERE IS A SUPREME BEING OUT THERE" eventhough I might nt end up serving him d way I should cuz I don't dig religion,so y'al atheist shud. Make ur decision and arguement personal nt cuz science,evolution,paleontology says d earth was formed by a cluster of gases,who made d gases?who gave life?who gave the breath in u?do u know ur final destination when u close ur eyes in death?why do we even die?who made the oceans,who made d lands?who made good?who made evil?evolution?big bang theory? Nah ion think so!

cycluse:
it is a sin to start imagine who created God,there are something's beyond our imagination,

and this is your fear and why you refuse to think for yourself?

KingEbukasBlog:


God exist outside space and time ...

So what created god and what is its origin ?

mmsen:


All gods have the same origins - the imagination of man.

You may be right

l just would like to know your views on the origin of man

How do you suppose man came into being on this planet?

Thanks

TopsyKrete:
I was in the midst of some students some time ago, engaged in some data update, when some of those student noticed i had some slice bread and moi-moi at my side.

They requested i give them the bread but one suggested i throw out a question, and that who ever gets the answer will have the bread.

I thought to myself, "hey, that's not a bad idea.

The next thing that came out of my mouth as a question was:

"Where was God coming from before HE started creation"?


They all gave up on my afternoon meal.

But seriously, where was God coming from?

Was HE lonely or did HE just acquire the power of the ALMIGHTY from a just concleuded war?

I need the house to help me out on this.

Thanks.

You are assuming that "from" which is "space" and "start" which is "time" are actually real and not just a figment of your imagination.
Consider that if time and space are actually things you observed as human experience, or 3-Dimensional experience only, then God the creator is very likely to lack such limitations.

Meaning that the biblical answer that God has neither a beginning nor an end would be absolutely correct.

Why do I bring these up: Ample scientific evidence suggest that time is not what we really think it is. Infact some argue that it seems everything has happened or exist in some form of spirit state waiting for us to experience them (talk of calling things that are not as if they are - quantum physics). Further our sequence of experiencing events gets all muddled up depending on where we are in the Universe. Meaning that even though you think you are older than your brother, Someone observing half way across the Universe might think your brother is quite older than you, and will likely see him age before you. So time is not hard wired but rather a virtual experience that we do not fully understand

If time is relative to space, and space is relative to time, then there is something quite virtual about them. If we already know scientifically of the likely hood that there could be as many ad 9-dimensions, and we only observe 3, it means what ever we are observing is a subset of something much bigger and complex.

So I will say God probably has some property that will relate to his sourcing, which would be able to satisfy our questions, but it will definitely not be time or space, and we are very likely to lack the senses or reality to grasp such a property. So it boils down to such biblical answer as -

"God has neither beginning nor end," - cause only we do, similar to how our computers "boot up" or have "stack memory", and we simply are not limited by such things, but some others

"God is timeless" - cause he is not limited by speed or space

"Call things that are not as if they are" - cause some physical states are only determinate at the point of your observation

"Jesus will call up all the dead" - cause to the creator, this is probably similar to a two seconds experiment
So look beyond your realities and you will see ,not answers, but clues to the answers to your question

We studied two poems by Thomas Hardy last semester, God forgotten and Nature Questioning. The latter is what i'm still meditating on now.

lolaxavier:


Refusing to think otherwise even makes you less intelligent. It shows how religion has deeply concocted and restricted people's reasoning capacity. Quite severe is the fact that you have no clue about the origination of your so called God, yet you waste time, energy and resources to uphold him.
To me, that's the height of unintelligent reasoning.

If God had an origin, He wouldn't be God!