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Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by Nobody: 11:29am On Apr 07, 2015 |
I attended their service as a first timer,after the introduction, we were led to another hall there a brother asked us if we culd speak in tongues,for those who said no,they were led to another brother. This brother quoted somewhere in the bible nd said he would teach us how to speak in tongues,he said speaking in tongues won't let anyone know what u saying He also said he would continually teach us how to speak in tongues. He wanted to place his hand on my head,I refused and walked out. In as much as I am not a bible scholar, I know this is false teaching( the little knowledge I know is when speaking in tongues there must b an interpreter its a message not a language 2) You dont teach people the holy spirit does. And this issue of cell leader is confusing. The brother also said we cannot approach the pastor directly. 2 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by WinsomeX: 11:57am On Apr 07, 2015 |
^^^ Wise move. 1 Like |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by Topgainer: 4:27pm On Apr 07, 2015 |
Loves world is a sect no true Christian will be comfortable with. I am speaking from experience, usually when you are there you conscience keeps telling you that something is not right here. One may choose to suppress that and continue with the it doesn't matter teachings, others pray they never repeat a visit to those centers It is either Pastor Chris is right with his teachings/lifestyle and Jesus Christ is wrong or that Jesus is wrong and Chris Oyakhilome is right. This is because there are wide differences between what Jesus teaches and what Pastor Chris does I am hoping that Pastor Chris will one day repent and retrace his steps starting from his ties with Snr. Prophet TB Joshua fonzie2u: 2 Likes |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by WinsomeX: 4:38pm On Apr 07, 2015 |
A few answers for Damo: damosky12: When I embarked on this mission, I was very prepared for this sort of talk. Since what I am doing here can very well be termed throwing stones, I came with a well shielded house. Your observation is noted. damosky12: Again the thread is not meant for debate. Debates may be unavoidable but my primary purpose is to PROVE a thesis: CHRIST EMBASSY IS A CULT. Debate is secondary. Correction my dear friend, CEC is not a church of God, it is a cult. If CEC is a church of God then Mormonism, Jehovah Witnessing, Christian Science, Synagogue, Cele, K&S, etc, are churches of God. Fortunately they are not and so also is the CE. There is no doubt a lot written on this thread is my opinion. Opinion grounded in the holy bible and corroborated by leading authorities in cult studies like Dr Walter Martin. damosky12: I stand by those words. I am told of a lot of folks who browse the internet to find information on their churches, etc. A google search on CE cults will throw up this thread and God knows what such info will do for a heart searching for gospel truth. And, yes, the day will come when those who have opposed us will find out we were right after all. These threads will be available to help them on the path of restoration. damosky12: Are Christ Embassy church people lost? The bible never say we should criticize, you say? Consider this: [b]Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 1 Corinthians 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 2 Corinthians 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Galatians 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.[/b] And a lot more scriptures like that. What do you think the scriptures above mean? There is a place of intercession and their is a place for apologetics. Indeed it is the one who intercedes the most, like Elijah, that faces the king and his false prophets declaring that there shall be no rain except by his word. These things are not done in the flesh, my friend. This is not the ranting of a jobless man. I am sent. damosky12: The Lord knows those who are his. One last point: 2 Corinthians 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; That's apologetics. The field of Christian preaching that demands that you point out what is true from what is false. It requires stating what is a false doctrine and what is true; who is a false prophet and who is true, so that the gospel might be preserved. It is defending the gospel against errors. It is one aspect of Christianity today that is very unpopular and since much of what is preached today is a popular gospel, few people do these things. Because men like Walter Martin took the pain to write Kingdom of the Cults, many of us cannot be deceived by popular cults today. Because I have posted this thread, one person will read it and be saved from the cult of Oyakhilome. Young people proceeding to the Universities will flee Loveworld fellowships and so on. I believe you understand me. 2 Likes |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by omegamhe(m): 2:09am On Apr 08, 2015 |
Only God knows who really serves Him... But it's true we "are gods; children of The Most High..."- Psalm 82:6. Maybe that is where CEC members got the idea from. Jesus quote this same point to his accusers when they rejected his words that he is "the son of God". Maybe that is what Jesus came to do on earth; to make the children of God know there true origin. I am not speaking for or against the CEC. I am only being objective. A wise man (James Allen) once told me that... When we argue over/about Christ, we lose Him. Christ is Love and we are the embodiments of Love. We are all saviors of the human race and every creature the race dominates. WinsomeX: |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by vooks: 6:27am On Apr 08, 2015 |
Winsomex, Jargons, mantras,semantics,word-play..... LIQUID LOVE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmMvia3rCQE https://www.facebook.com/CEcapetown/posts/1516103915269705 Gombs, What is LIQUID LOVE? 1 Like |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by MsFaith: 9:31am On Apr 08, 2015 |
Is this same set of people that will open mouth and say Catholic Church is a cult. Let God be the judge abeg |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by WinsomeX: 11:03am On Apr 08, 2015 |
MsFaith: Hello Ms. We are not discussing Catholics on this thread. Catholicism is another issue entirely. |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by WinsomeX: 4:45pm On Apr 08, 2015 |
DISSECTING A CHRIS OYAKHILOME TEACHING The following are the essential doctrines of the CEC: 1. Faith in faith. 2. Confessing to Possessing. 3. The Sin of Suffering 4. Wealth (The Wheel of Fortune). 5. Health and Healing. While the true gospel of Jesus Christ revolve around themes like: Salvation, Redemption, Eternal Life, Holiness and Righteousness, Love of God, the eternal glory of the Godhead - the Trinity. Christ Embassy churches claim to believe these things but if they mention them at all, it will be in passing. Let us consider a typical message of Pastor Chris as proof of this point. I have intentionally provided one that Gombs provided us on this thread. In the teaching to be perused below, the careful reader will notice that the above themes of a true gospel are conspicuously absent in the essay. Pastor Chris: As we would soon see, we would discover that the Luke 10 passage that was quoted above has nothing to do with the health of the body. Jesus was speaking of the powers he has given us his disciples as we preach the gospel. Our confidence should be in the fact that the One in us is greater than any external force against us. But trust the false gospel Chris preaches, every scripture is bent to lend credence to Word of Faith. So we proceed to learn tips on how to keep our body healthy. Pastor Chris: One other point must be spelt out about WoF. It is not only a man centred gospel, it is also a Do-It-Yourself gospel. It is a gospel that doesn't depend on God; it has no place for a sovereign God in its teaching. You must learn to get results and if there is no result, it is your fault. Here we begin to see the first item of WoF, confessing to possessing. "You are the one to keep your body in health", he roars. While indeed every human being has a duty to watch over his diet and way of life, exercise and live free of anxiety, WoF does not leave room for any other possibility. If it goes well or bad with you, it is your fault. Pastor Chris: What did Jesus say in Luke 10 that means "you are not ordinary". Then he couples it all with the Magna Carta of WoF: Mark 11:24 - the confessing to possessing scriptures. As much as this scriptures is quoted by WoF adherents to say what it never means, we are yet to find any occasion in the bible where Jesus or his disciples where "telling their bodies what to do". What Chris and others do not know is that these positive confession teachings find root more in New Age religions and eastern cults than the NT. These was what Christian Science consist of and many have even alleged that these doctrines are modern day gnostic heresies. Pastor Chris: Here we find ourselves in the practical aspect of the WoF class. These are the nonsense they teach sick folks for two weeks in the healing school before their prophet/god Oyakhilome appears to "heal" them. What people do not know is that these things find no root in the bible. They are Mind Science teachings that are prevalent among modern day cults that have no link with Christianity. Experience has shown that in some rare cases, if the sick individual applies himself long enough to the given healing techniques, they do experience healing. This doesn't mean that God had any hand in it, it only tells of the supreme powers that lie in the human body make up. How genuine optimism can yield positive results even in very bad health cases. Virtually all Mind Scientists that practice these healing techniques are not Christians. WoF is spiritualizing Mind Science and calling it the gospel. These are the reason WoF has cultic influences. And the CEC, which imbibes these teachings, is a full blown cult today. Pastor Chris: After teaching pure Mind Science and cultism, Chris returns to a biblical truth of "Christ living in you". He then makes the connection: use this Christ within you to dominate health situation. So in one hand, confess to possess health and then use the indwelling Christ within you to perfect the health. You begin to wonder the occasions where Paul spoke of his own infirmity or the infirmity of his assistants, was it that they were ignorant of these healing techniques? These teachings are foreign to scriptures. I will end this discuss with quotes from scriptures and I will request readers to find just one of the five aforementioned doctrines of WoF in them. Pastor Chris: Well, there is the confession. I wish you all the luck in the practice session. I leave you with some central gospel words from Jesus, Paul and Peter. I will request my readers to locate a single Word of Faith theme in them. You are also free to supply yours. Just show me: faith in faith; confession to possession; health and wealth in them. If not, you must agree that Chris Oyakhilome peaches a false gospel, he leads a cult and he deceiving millions to eternal damnation in hell. Jesus: Paul:- Doctrinal Statement. Paul:- Practical Statement. Note what Paul will rather have us practice godliness. Not some tips towards being healthy. Peter: Note the themes of salvation, redemption, eternal life, holiness and righteousness in these scriptures. Themes absent from Chris whole day teaching. Where is Word of Faith in all of the above? Were is confession to possession; faith in faith; health and wealth? A careful reader of the NT cannot but conclude that the teachings of Chris Oyakhilome are not biblical. They are a juxtaposing of partial biblical truth with cult sciences. The result is a cult. 1 Like |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by MsFaith: 7:54pm On Apr 08, 2015 |
[quote author=WinsomeX post=32477471] Hello Ms. We are not discussing Catholics on this thread. Catholicism is another issue entirely.[/quote Na so nah. Another issue of cultism |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by Joagbaje(m): 1:27am On Apr 09, 2015 |
fonzie2u: That's bible very scriptural ....read reference below. Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. . . . This brother quoted somewhere in the bible nd said he would teach us how to speak in tongues. . . TRASH !!!! . No one teaches such things in ce . Speaking in tongues can't be taught . What we can say is rather to teach you on how to RECIEVE the holyspirit . Not how to speak in tongues. Christ embassy is a sound bible teaching ministry . And satan won't stop ,manipulating propangada . To gullible ears . . .He wanted to place his hand on my head,I refused and walked out. Even though an ignorant dude is hailing you here but You missed out on what would have helped you because laying on of hands is one of the ways you RECIEVE the holyghost . Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. In as much as I am not a bible scholar, I know this is false teaching( the little knowledge I know is when speaking in tongues there must b an interpreter its a message not a language You're wrong , speaking in tongue (message) is different from praying in tongues . Message in tongues is for people , praying in tongues is to God, and God doesn't need an interpreter ! 5 Likes |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by omegamhe(m): 2:41am On Apr 09, 2015 |
I am saddened that it still goes on and on. "My church is better than yours" and then in response to that we hear "It's a lie, my church is better than yours". Isn't this the beginning of the end? To be honest I have my reservations when we concern ourselves with Christianity. Mahatma Ghandi once said and I quote "I like your Christ but I dislike your christians". Wasn't there a Judas Iscariot among the twelve? Stop wasting valuable time debating who is perfect and who isn't because there is none. "our righteousness are but like filthy rags in the presence of God. Train your mind to see the best in everyone around us. I was once a member of CEC and many of the issues you have post on this thread are true but they exist both in the religious and secular level. I enjoin everyone here (for or against) to do just one thing... Have Faith in God. That is the reason we are here on earth. Because by so doing we shall fulfill our purpose on earth. Your believe shall set you free. Dream of God 1 Like |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by omegamhe(m): 2:50am On Apr 09, 2015 |
1st Corin 14 |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by WinsomeX: 6:08am On Apr 09, 2015 |
Joagbaje: Joagbaje,- In your rush to put that person in his place, you missed the point he was trying to make. His point was not the validity of tongues, his point was the falsehood behind the CE. He mentioned tongues as an example. You will notice that I have also not enumerated tongues as a reason why CE is a cult. But even at that, you yourself agree that the method of teaching people how to speak with tongues is wrong. And you must agree that this practice is very common in your church; it will be wrong of you to fain ignorance of it here. Lastly, the distinction BTW speaking and praying in tongues is not true. The bible talks of only one type of tongues, a language that can be understood. This tongues you practice where you just speak or pray with no understanding of what you are saying has no foundation in scriptures. The man you quoted is right after all, despite not being that knowledgeable in scriptures. That said. I hope you can find time to respond to the real issues raised on the thread. The things that make your church s cult. |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by vooks: 6:14am On Apr 09, 2015 |
Joagbaje, Much as you owe SirJohn 500K, I have to agree with you; praying for somebody to receive baptism of the Holy Spirit is not cultish and if it is, then the apostles/disciples were cultish. Much as I have serious reservations against CEC, I don't think cheap gossip helps its critics Joagbaje: 2 Likes |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by nuwell(m): 9:33am On Apr 09, 2015 |
Gombs: This is a typically sad, but excellent response! It is totally representative of all the misconstrued mindsets and teaching of Scripture that comprise and corroborate this Word of Faith movement. God help us! 3 Likes |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by WinsomeX: 11:05am On Apr 09, 2015 |
THE PSYCHOLOGICAL STRUCTURE OF CULTISM A Comparison BTW Christian Science and Christ Embassy: Note the bold Christian Science is an ingenious mixture of first-century Gnostic theology, eighteenth century Hegelian philosophy, and nineteenth century idealism woven into a redefined framework of Christian theology with an emphasis upon the healing of the body by the highly questionable practice of denying its objective material reality. In Christian Science there is a complete separation between the objective world of physical reality (matter) and the spiritual world of supernatural existence (mind). Mrs. Eddy taught that "man as God’s idea is already saved with an everlasting salvation." 12 Hence, it is unnecessary for Christian Scientists to think of themselves as sinners in need of a salvation they believe is already theirs by virtue of the fact that "man is already saved" because he is a reflection of the divine mind. However, in Christian Science there are disturbing psychological aberrations. Mrs. Eddy demanded of her followers that they abstain from any critical contact with the non spiritual elements of the illusory material world. She forbade the reading of "obnoxious literature," lest Christian Scientists become convinced that the physical body and its diseases, suffering, and inevitable death were real. There is in Christian Science a subconscious repression, a conscious putting out of one’s mind certain things which are disconcerting to the entire configuration of psychological patterns of conditioning. Christian Scientists are conditioned to believe in the non-existence of the material world even though their senses testify to its objective reality. They continually affirm that matter has no true existence, and thus, in a very real sense, entertain a type of religious schizophrenia. One side of their personality testifies to the reality of the material world and its inexorable decay, while the conditioning process of Christian Science theology hammers relentlessly to suppress this testimony and affirm that the only true reality is spiritual or mental. In Margaret Mitchell’s classic novel Gone With the Wind, Scarlet O’Hara, the heroine, when confronted with the harsh realities of life in the wake of the Civil War, repeatedly states, "I’ll think about that tomorrow," as if not thinking about it today would eliminate the reality of its claim at that moment. When working with sensory data, Christian Scientists totally disassociate their religious convictions, for, if they did not, they would not continue to feed, clothe, or house their bodies. But in still another sense, they attempt to master the all-too-obvious frailties of the body by the application of a religion which denies the material reality of that body. A psychologist of the behaviourist school in one sense does the same thing. In the office he may talk about "conditioning" and may associate everything, including his home, with mechanistic psychology; however, at home he still loves his wife and children, and doesn’t respond in that same manner. This is one of the chief reasons why Christian Scientists sometimes appear to be almost immune to the conviction of personal guilt as a result of sin. Guilt implies the threat of judgement and a standard which is the basis of that judgement; hence the reality of the concept of sin, which is transgression of the law of God. [b]Christian Scientists desperately want only a "good" world, a pleasant place full of happiness, life, love, and security. This they can have only if they deny the empirical evidence of the opposites of those concepts. In effect, they affirm the reality of "good" at the expense of the antithesis of "good," as if by denying the existence of evil one had annihilated evil! There can be no doubt that there is "selective perception" in the mind of the Christian Scientist, which enables him to select those things which are of a metaphysical nature, disassociate them from the sense perception of the physical world, and still maintain his idealistic philosophy and Gnostic theology. This he accomplishes by repressing or suppressing any evidence to the contrary. By following Mrs. Eddy’s advice and avoiding what she would call "obnoxious literature," i.e., evidence that controverts the idealism of Christian Science philosophy, Christian Scientists avoid facing the damaging data of physical reality. It is in effect an act of unconscious suppression, utilised in order to escape the data. Concluding our thoughts in this area we might say that in the kingdom of the cults we are actually seeing a mosaic of abnormal conditioned behaviour patterns that express themselves in a theological framework, utilising Christian terms perverted by redefinition and represented as "new insight," when in truth they are only old errors with new faces. The defence mechanisms on a psychological level are apparent when one considers the background and vocabulary of the cult systems. There exists, beyond a shadow of a doubt, an abnormal behaviour syndrome operating in the mentality of most cultists, which causes the cultist (in the case of Christian Scientists) to build his theological system upon a preconditioned and artificially induced criterion of evaluation, i.e., the divine mission and inspiration of Mary Baker Eddy. In the case of other cultists, the names Joseph Smith, "Pastor" Russell, Brigham Young, or any other cult authority figure could be supplied and the conditioned reflex would be virtually the same.[/b] There are many more observations that could be made, but space will not permit. It is my hope that in observing and analysing the facets of cult behaviour patterns already discussed, the reader may obtain a deeper insight and appreciation of the psychological structure of cultism as it continues to influence a growing segment of professing Christendom, which is ill-prepared for the subtleties and dangers of such psychological and theological deviations. |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by WinsomeX: 11:10am On Apr 09, 2015 |
You could replace Christian Science with Christ Embassy and Mary Eddy Baker with Chris Oyakhilome and the above passage will still not loose its significance. Note that Christian Science are considered cults in main stream Christianity. There focus in religion was healing. They are prevalent mostly in the USA. The cult dates back to the 19 century. The above passage is taken from Chapter 3 of Dr Martin's book. 1 Like |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by Joagbaje(m): 11:16am On Apr 09, 2015 |
vooks: I don't owe sir john . 3 Likes |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by WinsomeX: 11:29am On Apr 09, 2015 |
Joagbaje: This is derailment but I will permit it for the time being. Joagbaje, when you say you do not owe SirJohn money, are you saying you have paid the money you promised to give him if he could prove your healing claims wrong; or... You are adding lying to the list of CE misdeeds? 1 Like |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by Joagbaje(m): 11:30am On Apr 09, 2015 |
WinsomeX: I pray that you realize one day how wrong your assumption about CEC. Is. Our method of teaching is biblical. Teach people about the necessity of receiving the holyghost and laying hands on them . What more? Lastly, the distinction BTW speaking and praying in tongues is not true. The bible talks of only one type of tongues, a language that can be understood. This tongues you practice where you just speak or pray with no understanding of what you are saying has no foundation in scriptures. The man you quoted is right after all, despite not being that knowledgeable in scriptures. The bible talks about tongues of men and tongues of angels, tongues of men are earthly language ,tongues of angels are not. You may call it gibberish if you like. Speaking an earthly language by the spirit is for people as prophecy , not as prayer on to God. But praying in the spirit unto God is not earthly language . Groaning in the spirit may come under this category . It is gibberish to the ear but it's mystery to God. Romans 8:26-27 -- Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. 1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. So there's earthly tongue and unknown tongue. 5 Likes |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by Joagbaje(m): 11:37am On Apr 09, 2015 |
WinsomeX: He's not just honest that's all. I've explained my stand . Evidence shows There wasn't any manipulation . And he should have been patient to proper conclusion of investigation . Instead being so much in a hurry to make himself hero as usual. I was the one spending money to carry out his investigation. Yet he's not straight forward . We've gone this way before. That even reminds me he's owing me 500k for that other one 5 Likes |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by SirJohn(m): 11:52am On Apr 09, 2015 |
So you're not ashamed to still show your face here right? You are the one who is dishonest, you never denied any of the facts I put out there. Your claim was debunked and that was what the challenge was all about. Whether or not you intentionally manipulated the whole thing is left between you and your god. There are a million questions still begging for answers in this jeffgate and I know you can't answer them. You already admitted that you made a mistake and that this was Satan's attack on your ministry. If you don't mind, please tell the world how I am dishonest. You should rather be hiding your face in shame for being so unintelligent to be fooled by the person of Jeff, that is if actually you were not in on the whole thing. Please post the link to where I owe you and I will pay up Joagbaje: 1 Like |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by vooks: 12:15pm On Apr 09, 2015 |
You dared him to disprove your healing claims which he did and then you pleaded ignorance. Please pay up and then come back and defend CEC Joagbaje: |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by WinsomeX: 12:16pm On Apr 09, 2015 |
Joagbaje: The prayer is mutual. But I have a resounding "Amen!!!" to say to yours though. Hope you will respond the same to mine. Joagbaje: What is more is that what you are doing has no basis in the bible. No one taught anyone how yo be born again or how to speak in tongues in the bible. God's servant preached his word and the Holy Spirit worked on men supernaturally. Taking people to a corner and asking them to repeat gibberish after you is nonsensical. Joagbaje: 1 Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. When Paul said "though I speak with tongues of angels" he was using a hyperbole. An exaggeration to drum in a point. He was not teaching a doctrine that angels have a specific language they speak with. The same goes with expression of faith that move mountains and so on. Scripture is replete with angelic encounters. There is no occasion where it was said they spoke with a tongue unknown to man. There is no such thing as heavenly or earthly languages. Scriptures teaches of languages, which KJV old English translates as tongues. Language is language; tongue is tongue. Joagbaje: The same explanation goes with the so called groaning in the Spirit. Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. Groaning in the Spirit is prayers. This scriptures doesn't say it is uttering unintelligible words. It is a deeper depth of prayers, no doubt. Joagbaje: This is the only scripture in the whole bible that suggest that speaking in tongues might imply that when you speak in tongues, only God understands. The problem with this verse though is that no other scripture teaches such a concept; except you force them to do so. The second point is that Paul clearly shows here that the induvidual is "speaking" not "praying". So because we cannot find any other example where people were saying unintelligible words to God in scripture, we must conclude that this scripture is not teaching a doctrine of unintelligible speaking to God as prayers. Acts 2 and 1 Cor 14 spoke of people SPEAKING in tongues. There is no evidence that the two events records different tongues: one an earthly one and the other a heavenly one. If they understood the tongues in Acts 2, Paul expected us to know that the tongues of 1 Cor 14 was understandable too. Joagbaje: No sir. Tongues are languages. There is no heavenly or earthly tongues. If what you speak is unintelligible to you or others, you speak gibberish. So as not to derail this thread, this will be my last response to tongue issues. You may open a new thread for it if you wish to debate it further. |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by WinsomeX: 12:21pm On Apr 09, 2015 |
Joagbaje: If the investigations were not concluded, are they concluded now, almost six months after? Because what is clear is that Jeff still has HIV and you said you healed him. You said anyone who could disprove the healing will get N500,000. sir John did and you came to this forum to say you made a mistake in believing Jeff. So pay up now. How could the man be owing you again? 1 Like |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by vooks: 12:26pm On Apr 09, 2015 |
Winsomex, Joagbaje, A human unknown tongue would sound gibberish so there is no need to strain scriptures distinguishing between 'known tongues of men' and 'unknown tongues of Angels'. Note tongues of angels was used HYPOTHETICALLY just as offering your body to be burnt. Not that I doubt existence of these. Besides, the reason there exists a gift of interpretation is obvious; seldom will the tongue be understood by both the one exercising the gift or others near him 1 Like |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by AlfaSelltzer: 12:42pm On Apr 09, 2015 |
Well, the thread is ruined. Derailed because some big babies here had to cry because Joagbaje is here, and probably giving them a hard time. Look at WinsomeX's last post, like he wasn't the fellow urging others not to derail, but had to take an 'exception' because it's jo. You couldn’t resist, no? Double standards? Vooks, you should get a medal for derailment. Can you, WinsomeX prove Satan is the custodian of CE? I can take you on that. 2 Likes |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by Joagbaje(m): 12:56pm On Apr 09, 2015 |
[quote author=SirJohn post=32516156]So you're not ashamed to still show your face here right?[/quote ] Ashamed of what? These nothing to hide . You are the one who is dishonest, What's my dishonesty pls ? You already admitted that you made a mistake I didn't make a mistake . Among numerous testimonies of great miracles . A guy I never knew came testifies he too was healed of HIV . I editors brought out a video of "while he was being prayed for , I saw slight difference in the appearance but I assumed it was due to his sickness . But just to be sure . I asked for his numbers asked him what he was wearing while being prayed for . And also sent a link to him to watch the video and he confirmed he watched the video and he was the person being prayed for . What more evidence do I need . The horse has spoken. That's enough for me. But because I wanted to post this online ,I asked for his medical report and he said he didn't collect it. And I said " pls go and collect them ,because I want to post your testimony online . He said he would get it in the week. And I assume he did that. I posted my chat with him . So if there was a mistake . It's from the guy who said he was the one in the video without watching the video. and that this was Satan's attack on your ministry Satan can set any one up. Especially if you cast out demons a lot , which I do . So satanic set up happens a lot. But a honest man has nothing to fear. Everything Jeff said in the testimony suits what transpired between me and the other guy Perfectly . . If you don't mind, please tell the world how I am dishonest. You're more concerned about rubbishing joagbaje than finding out truth, you've been eager to go online to do your rubbish as usual . And I told you "be patient" The bottom of the Jeff matter is as important to me as well . Because if Jeff didn't get healed ,I can't phantom how on earth someone will climb the altar of God to testify a lie. What would be his gain? I'm curious to know . I'm willing to spend any amount , chatter a car get him hotel rooms and give him money for his trips if there need be to get to the bottom . But you kept pressing to go online . And also rubbishing me before the guy . You don't know how far I'm willing to go. It's not about clearing my name it's about . Asking Jeff his motives if it's true he didn't get healed. And I was cooperative with you. We even got the first medical paper from the hospital without Jeff knowledge . And planned to carry Jeff to do fresh medical test. You didn't spend a dime . But I lost interest in the matter after I saw the SMS you sent to Jeff that I wanted to use his testimony for glory or something like that. That's the one I saw only God knows what other things you did . Why getting in the way of an investigation , why launching attack at my person. Is it about the 500k? Do you know how much I'm willing to spend on the matter? I thought I was opened enough for you. Only to see the rubbish you're posting on Nairaland . Which is what you're after not the truth . Please post the link to where I owe you and I will pay up You claimed God doesn't heal again . And if anyone can present a miracle to you will travel to that place ,investigate ,talk with relatives and Neighbours and you will give 500k and Apologise in newspapers . I shared testimonies of people I prayed and got healed . You said you wanted more serious ones. I told you about a guy with leg ulcer or cancer for two years of treatment in the hospital without cure and when I prayed for him the leg healed up in one week . I mentioned also a lady with blindness who git healed almost instantly I prayed for her. You said you preferred that one. I took me effort to locate someone who gave me her number . Because it happened around 2007 or so . I called her and asked her again about her testimony . She confirmed she is still healed . And I told her I want to share her testimony online and some people may call her ,she should be free to cooperate . She only said I should not bring her to face crown . And I said it's only phone call. I sent you the number and I was shocked you went on Nairaland claiming she was not blind. That's a big fat lie . I called the lady and she said you lied because she told you the whole testimony . You didn't travel there to as promised to find out , I posted her brother"s number ,who led her by hand to be prayed for . But you're more eager to rubbish as usual . The lady is still seeing perfectly today . 2weeks blindness healed within 15 minutes . 3 Likes |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by vooks: 12:57pm On Apr 09, 2015 |
Hello negro AlfaSelltzer: 1 Like |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by Joagbaje(m): 1:14pm On Apr 09, 2015 |
WinsomeX: We never said we teach people how to speak in tongues . That can not be taught . You teach people about necessity of receiving the Holy Spirit . But You teach people way of salvation , and how to be saved . Acts 18:26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly. Taking people to a corner and asking them to repeat gibberish after you is nonsensical. I agree. We don't teach such . It's the spirit that gives utterance . We teach the necessity of the INFILLING, how to RECIEVE the INFILLING which is by faith just as you RECIEVE salvation by faith and we lay hands . 3 Likes |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by Kenny4lyfe(m): 1:29pm On Apr 09, 2015 |
@WinsomeX I still maintain my stand that you're getting things the wrong way about this thread. Until the needful is done, you'll keep going round circles and will end up unable to proof anything; thus plunging this thread into suffering the same fate as the WOF thread. My opinion though! Take it or leave it. |
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