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Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by Joagbaje(m): 11:02am On Apr 13, 2015 |
WinsomeX: You're not discussing , you're insulting. The day you're ready for civilic discussion as christian we shall discuss . 2 Timothy 2:23-25 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 3 Likes |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by Joagbaje(m): 11:18am On Apr 13, 2015 |
vooks: so the question is why would you call another person false , why not you ? What make you feel that your belief is to be accepted above the other. Let's humble ourselves . The word of God is not to be preached in strife and insult . So that if you're proven wrong ,there's atmosphere of acceptance and not political arrogance 2 Timothy 2:24-25 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; So if Oyaks propagates falsehoods, we are supposed to JUDGE it. It would be very unthinking judging doctrines minus their purveyors. Recently, some four terrorists stormed a university and butchered 147 kids. According to Joagbaje, judge the doctrine, those were very innocent boys, in fact calling them terrorists is insulting. They are not even murderers, but murder of the 147 they did That's still your own personal wrong judgment of me. Deal with facts and not persons . Let's look at how scriptures treat false teachers\prophet The question to you still is : by what standard do you label another false teacher. Because his belief is different from yours? Or you don't like him? We ought to judge by the word. And not carnal political and emotional standard. The day you people will be ready for pure christian talk without personal attack , we shall begin talk .because the bible says to ignore certain people . Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 1 Like |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by WinsomeX: 5:00pm On Apr 13, 2015 |
Joagbaje: There is nothing I would say here that you will not consider an insult. So you can forego the "civilic" discussion. And... em, look up that scriptures in 2Timothy 2:23-25 well enough. It might have a lesson for you actually. That's the appropriate place to remove the log in your eyes so as to see well... The thread will proceed. Thank you for your input thus far. Peace. 1 Like |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by sammied(m): 7:14pm On Apr 13, 2015 |
WinsomeX: So you now take the definition of a man's book to judge your brothers in Christ? What happened to getting answers from the Bible itself? If you so much believe in a man's book to the extent of using it to pass judgement on a body of believers... Are you not the number one cult member? With all your submissions on the John McArthur conference.. Since then I have been praying for you. All I hear in your thread are just pure hatred for Christians who don't believe the same things as you. May God help you, because instead of edifying God's people, you bring far more confusions. Even Peter didn't understand a lot of Pauls writings.. Yet he didn't for a bitter critics club on him. Are you truly a Christian? Are you truly a part of the body of Christ? If yes..... Then focus in edification of the body not pointing fingers..... Cos wen you point one finger... More points back at you. If you were in the corinthians church in the Bible days... You will definitely call them a cult.... But Paul didn't... He only rebuked them on wot they were doing wrong but yet he praised what they were doing right. A lot of things were wrong with that church but yet Paul called them Holy brethren. There's so much to say to you, but for lack of time I stop here. Remain blessed! 2 Likes |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by Joagbaje(m): 7:21pm On Apr 13, 2015 |
sammied: more witnesses to truth . Thanks bro. Hope he takes . heed bye all. 3 Likes |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by sammied(m): 7:55pm On Apr 13, 2015 |
WinsomeX: Habaa... What confirmation? If truly confirmation, then it's a positive one. A lot of times, those who claim to know much actually knows nothing... Let me ask you: Who should be/is the central focus of the gospel according to the scripture? My brother, throughout the Bible it's MAN... now before you scream let me ask you some questions. In the creation of the earth in Genesis.. Who was the central focus of the earth? Man or God? Who did devil tempted and ultimately made to sin.... man or God? In the old church who was the central focus.... Israel or God? Who needed redemption from sin, who was going to hell without redemption? Who needed the gospel? Man or God? Who did Jesus died n suffered for? See I can ask more of this questions.... But let me stop. It's outright lie of the devil.. N totally unbiblical to say Man is not the focus of the gospel. If you disagree..... Please kindly provide five scriptures that says God is the focus of the gospel and I will kindly provide you with 10, 15 n even more from Genesis to revelation that says Man is the focus n reason for the gospel. If man is not the focus of the gospel then there's no gospel in the first place. Gospel for God, Angels? Now before you go hard on me.... Am not playing down the love, sacrifice and provisions of My father.... GOD almighty... his supremacy cannot be debated... He made the gospel to save man possible, without him no salvation or gospel for man. In fact he's the one who made man the focus of the gospel, for its man who needed the gospel n not him. In conclusion, God made the gospel possible to save man... Only him deserve all the Glory..... 3 Likes |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by WinsomeX: 8:47pm On Apr 13, 2015 |
Sammied, please look up the core of things Ive discussed so far and point out whatever you think is incompatible with scriptures or reasons. I made the summary for those who may wish to take up issues with me. That way it can be done orderly. We can take them one after the other. That way, I can answer the queries you raised in the above posts. WinsomeX: |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by WinsomeX: 8:56pm On Apr 13, 2015 |
sammied: So you answer your own question yourself. I really hope we can have a fruitful discuss here. Cheers. |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by vooks: 5:13am On Apr 14, 2015 |
You judge doctrine and their purveyors by scriptures. For instance, somebody claiming that Jesus had 14 disciples. You can easily disprove that from the scriptures and demonstrate the falsehood. Once again, false doctrines are never cast in hell, their proponents are. mbaemeka once flaps gum here that Jesus can't take him home UNLESS he consents. This means his immortality is in his hands;he can always refuse to consent and live forever. That is a falsehood. If non-consenting Christians live forever, shouldn't we have had many believers hundreds of years old who have refused to consent? Joagbaje: 1 Like |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by vooks: 5:16am On Apr 14, 2015 |
How do you edify believers who subscribe to falsehoods? You should be worried about the veracity of Winsomex claims not preoccupying yourself with psychoanalysis sammied: |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by vooks: 5:20am On Apr 14, 2015 |
When Winsomex says MAN, he means a PERSONALITY called Oyakhilome. It is rather obvious that the gospel from Genesis to Revelation is all about restoring MAN bck to God. Man in this sense means HUMANITY. So please drop equivocation sammied: |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by sammied(m): 7:11am On Apr 14, 2015 |
vooks: Believers who subscribe to "falsehood" whatever your falsehood means are still Believers. I do not know whether all the things Winsomex is saying about CE is true as I am not familiar with that body of Believers. My point remains....there's nothing happening in any true Christian body today that didn't happen in the corinthian church. Fornication, adultery, fighting, abuse and even worshipping man.. (remember the case of Appollos)? Hope u understand what I mean by 'worshipping man'? Yet with all this, what was Paul attitude? Criticism or rebuke? Did condemned them and label them false Believers and a cult? I careless about all the things Winsomex normally write about. I have been following him for a while. Am yet to read anything edifying, comforting, corrective or even rebuke from him. Most times it is all about criticizing different body of Believers. To HIM, HE HAS THE BEST DOCTRINE, BEST KNOWLEDGE, BEST PRACTICES, BEST BIBLE UNDERSTANDING, His INSIGHT IS BLAMELESS.... etc... that's all. That a body of Believers are doing something wrong does not make them a cult. Rebuke them for the wrong. BUT ALSO LOOK OUT FOR WHAT THEY ARE DOING RIGHT AND PRAISE THEM ACCORDINGLY. Where did he get his idea of a cult to pass judgement? The Bible? Or from a Man's book? To answer your question : you can edify Believers who subscribe to falsehood by doing exactly what Paul did with the corinthian church. Rebuke, correct, pray for their restoration and also look out for what they are doing right and encourage it. Remember how Our Lord Jesus dealt with the seven Churches in Revelation? Even those he went as far as saying that he would spit them out of his mouth.... Yet he didn't still label them. That's how to edify believers who are walking in error. I guess that's enough example. Be careful of labelling God's people. Remain blessed. 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by sammied(m): 8:40am On Apr 14, 2015 |
vooks: Laughable, so you mean that Winsomex says CE makes Oyakhilome the central focus of the gospel? No I don't think so Bro. But If that's what he meant... Then that's absolutely devilish for them to do that. But I responded based on his post I quoted. So you can refer again to it. Thank you! |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by Candour(m): 8:52am On Apr 14, 2015 |
I saw the exchange between MuttleyLaff and Gombs and i wonder how difficult it is to just admit when mistakes or slips are made. A pistol is a weapon, a dagger is a weapon, a spear is a weapon, a sword is a weapon. The cross is actually a location, Mount Calvary is a location also. The cross is a location inside another location. Christ was killed on the cross. The cross didn't kill him. he was killed with spears in his sides, crown of thorns piercing the veins in his head, the beatings he received before being hung on the cross, The dehydration he suffered on the cross, the nails driven into his hands and feet on the cross. to cut a long story short, MuttleyLaff is very correct. The cross is a crime scene where many wicked things were done to an innocent man so my fiend Gombs and i can be forgiven even of the truths we refuse to admit I didn't pick through most of the posts as i would have loved to do because of time but i'll find time to do so i can contribute better some other time. Also, quit this your detective nonsense bro because you suck at it . you were the same person that said SirJohn was Lobeez, vooks was shdemidemi. now Goshen has metamorphosed into MuttleyLaff. Unless you really want to suspend reality, you'll admit that Goshen360 writing has NOTHING similar to MuttleyLaff IN ANY WAY. Also, Winsomex never denied being DrummaBoy because he never even attempted to disguise his writing or presentation style.....his only response was ''if you ask me, na who i go ask'' which was a way of saying ''e no concern you''. If you have any reference to where he denied, pls let me know and i'll withdraw this statement. But Gombs, can you in all honesty claim you're free of the alternate moniker business? Also, encourage Pastor Jo to pay up na......500k can't be so much of a big deal to him...or is it? |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by vooks: 10:07am On Apr 14, 2015 |
False doctrines are not new, we were warned of this by Paul right in Acts before he penned any epistle. You may opt to ignore them and pray about them or to just speak out about them. What's the whole idea of being charged to prove all things, test spirits? One of the reasons there is so much rot in Christianity is because believers have abdicated their duty to contend for their faith. Truth is sacrificed at the altar of 'unity'. If fellow believers can't point out falsehoods, who should? Angels or monkeys? Now, nobody disputes that believers remain believers despite subscribing false doctrines, what Winsomex is saying is holding on to these is dangerous and may have eternal consequences. Let's stretch your logic; a believer, a pastor who sleeps around with the entire choir and other pastors' wives is still a believer, right? A believer, pedophile is still a believer, right? A believer, a closet homosexual is still a believer, right? And a believing serial killer is no psychopath, just that he trips every so often right? you are stalling this by engaging in semantics. Next is Winsomex' attitude and approach. While it is good to observe him, regaling us with your psychological analysis of his NL persona helps little in this thread. Stick to the subject and refute him where you can sammied: 2 Likes |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by WinsomeX: 12:54pm On Apr 14, 2015 |
A DEFENSE OF @SAMMIED ACCUSATION I woke up early this morning with a guilt feeling. I had gone to sleep with Sammied rebuke of this thread in mind. "Am I wrong?", I said to myself. "Should I change the name of the thread to 'I Suspect Christ Embassy is a Cult'?" My bible reading for my devotional this morning was Genesis 7 and 8. The Story of how God saved a few and destroyed the majority. My mind went to Jesus' words: narrow is the path to life; broad is the way to destruction. And, many are called but few are chosen. And, because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold but he that endures to the end shall be saved. And, as the days of Noah so shall the coming of the Son of Man shall be. I came to the conclusion that it will not subtract from God if a majority are heading to hell and a few are saved. It will be in keeping with his character. It is also his character to warn. And this thread may just as well be a warning. My first encounter with Christ Embassy folks was in the late 90s in my undergraduate days at a University in Northern Nigeria. I was not a Christian and as a backslider in heart, I detested everything Christian so I never went to CE fellowships. But my room mates, who were also not Christian, used to go. My friends went there bc ladies would welcome them to fellowship with a hug. And my mischievous roommates went to fellowship just to get the hug. They were never converted in all the time they went there. One young, tall and lanky chap was the "Pastor" then. He was also a student. By the time I left school, I received reports that this guy had impregnated no less than 8 girls. I cannot vouch for the veracity of the report but I suspect it was true. I had become a Christian by the time I left school but I never, and still do not, considered CE as a serious church. My younger brother also started to attend the fellowship but I discouraged him until he left them. I met a CE chap during my NYSC. When I told him his church was not a serious church, he stopped speaking to me. My next encounter with CE people will be on nl. First, it was the subject of tithes. CE people are core tithers and it is either you tithe or burn. Then came the question of Word of Faith. We never agreed on this. Until vooks put up the book on cults and my fears and suspicion were confirmed: CE was a cult! That's how this thread was birth. I have enumerated my reasons. I have stated my points. Those who accuse me can simply just refute my position or keep quiet. I hear something like: does the bible say CE is a cult? Such a question is like: does the bible ask you to bath in the morning? Answer: does the bible encourage hygiene? The answer is yes. So: Does bible teach that there will be false prophets and doctrines in these times? Did Jesus warn against deception? Did his apostles warn against deception? Did Jesus or his apostles clearly label individuals as false prophets and false apostles? Does scripture teach of damnable heresies? Does the bible teach that many will be deceived? Does scripture teach that we should beware of false doctrines? If the answer to all these is yes, then there is a place for a thread like this. CE members may feel insulted being called a cult but we have no apologies for it. A leading bible scholar has left us a document on how to detect cults. He is long dead now. If we do not discern these cults and they creep into our homes and take over the minds of our children and nation, we would be the ones to be blamed. Until then, this thread will continue to expose the cult element in CE and I hope soon enough CE people can come here to offer a proper defence against these allegations. 1 Like |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by sammied(m): 1:20pm On Apr 14, 2015 |
vooks: I guess you ignored my answers to your initial question... Well... With above questions that you ask... We all know the answer. But that's not my case here. My response to Winsomex and to you is that: because there's a believing serial killer among a body of believers... Does that make every one of them serial killers? Because a believer impregnated 8 girls among a body of believers is that enough reason to label everyone of them fornicators or adulterers? I am not a CE member. It's the same issues Winsomex and the John McArthur groups have with other groups. Because of cases of wrongs, some incorrect beliefs, they go ahead to name and label those groups with unpleasant terms. A man even impregnated his step mother in the corinthians church, did Paul label them based on that? Please go through my previous response and you will know that I said, wrongs, abuses, unbiblical doctrine should be rebuked and call out among believers. But then those single acts are not enough reasons to label that body of believers Cults. If you do that, then the Corinth church should be called a cult. Don't you think so? About sticking to the subject, 90% of what I have said is about the subject.... If otherwise, please kindly point out. Lastly, what I said about Winsomex are my personal opinion about him. I have never met him, but from gleaning from his writings ...thats all it is without apologies. He's free to have his personal opinion about me too.. the same with you. That's why God made us different from each other. That doesn't make those opinions absolutely right. Remain blessed. |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by Kenny4lyfe(m): 1:29pm On Apr 14, 2015 |
@Sammied I should bring this to your notice (you must've been familiar with it since you've been following WinsomeX's post for quite a while but I'll share it anyway); WinsomeX, vooks and co. derives pleasure in going round in circles. They like to twist and turn issues to suit their own opinion (not that their opinion matter though), they ignore truths even if it stares right into their faces (they even circumvent it most times), which is exactly what they're doing with your submission thus far. Just thought I should give you a heads up bro. God bless you! 2 Likes |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by vooks: 1:53pm On Apr 14, 2015 |
sammied, Nobody is labeling everyone. What may have escaped you is that a particular sect's doctrines and practice are controlled by one man or centrally by a very small group. If the doctrines are cultic; unbiblical, overly controlling, that is not to mean that every member of the congregation is cultic. I don't know how else one can approach false doctrines and manipulation sammied: |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by sammied(m): 2:27pm On Apr 14, 2015 |
vooks: What more can I say? I guess nothing more. Thank you |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by sammied(m): 2:34pm On Apr 14, 2015 |
Kenny4lyfe: I guess so... Cos it's seems nothing one says ever makes meaning to them except their own opinions. Thank you Bro. 3 Likes |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by WinsomeX: 4:31pm On Apr 14, 2015 |
sammied: Opinion are like noses. Evebody has got one, including you. Your duty is to show that the opinions expressed on this thread are not biblical. 2 Likes |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by WinsomeX: 4:43pm On Apr 14, 2015 |
Kenny4lyfe: www.nairaland.com/2254770/man-pastor-chris-oyakhilome |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by WinsomeX: 5:44pm On Apr 14, 2015 |
EXAMINING OYAKHILOME I just saw this on front page. Follow me to examine it closely as I try to prove my central thesis here that CE is a cult. kenny4life: The truth is that the Nigerian tabloid had been reporting a lot more scandal of Pastor Chris and a publication like this will go a long way in redeeming his image. kenny4life: "Apostolic wonder"... Quite some title don't you think? kenny4life: Now that's what I have been looking for which I had not seen anywhere else. Every cult requires the founder/prophet/god to have some supernatural encounter. This encounter is what elevates them to the level of the superhuman and that separates them from ordinary members. It could be an angekic encounter, a mystwrius happening when the chap was in the wimv, some dream, a voice that spoke to him, etc. The bible is never enough. Faith is never enough. There must be some ENCOUNTER... Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. kenny4life: OK. Following... kenny4life: Who are these "neighbours in the faith"? Fellows Pentecostals or Fellow WoFaither? There is only one way to prove the god-man nature, to equate yourself with the bible apostles, and that is to claim to speak in tongues more than anyone else. Following... kenny4life: Well, it is your word. I wish I could believe it. Though it could be true, considering the billion these people reap people of. kenny4life: Like he is Apostle John or Praying Hide. Myth. Can we see some pictures please? kenny4life: I will not dispute this. Its quite possible. kenny4life: Hero worship at best. Man worship. The making of god Oyakhilome. What we used to know in those days was that the holiest men were those most keenly aware of their own depravity. It is the other way round now. Well if you insist, I will say the only other person that rivals him at this level is T B Joshua. kenny4life: OK. kenny4life: Impressive. How does it add to the gospel? kenny4life: Can you offer a link to this teaching please? kenny4life: Impressive. kenny4life: I quite agree. One aspect of CE is the really beautiful music they make. Though what does it take to make music? Be really smart and talented. Ask R. Kelly, Rihanna or Beyonce. kenny4life: Well, is this really a spiritual thing? To have rich folks in church. kenny4life: Same way Oyo State is the pacesetter state in Nigeria? Common. Let's cut down on this self glorification. Nothing spiritual about it. kenny4life: Yes. Like rivalling Jesus' teaching ministry. gods in the making... kenny4life: Very tempting offer. I'm not moved. Gospel preaching is not salesmanship. kenny4life: Congratulation. How is this spiritual in anyway? kenny4life: Now this got my attention. Please provide school and year of attendance, pls. No honorary degrees from loveworld schools o! kenny4life: Impressive. Congrats. kenny4life: O yea. Like many rich and worldly CEOs. I'm yet to see what is really spiritual about this. Compare all this self glorification to another apostle of scripture: 1 Corinthians 4:4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God. 4:6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another. 4:7 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it? 4:8 Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God ye did reign, that we also might reign with you. 4:9 For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men. 4:10 We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised. 4:11 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace; 4:12 And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it: 4:13 Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day... 1 Like |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by seedgreen(m): 6:15pm On Apr 14, 2015 |
WinsomeX:I pity u boy 2 Likes |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by vooks: 6:53pm On Apr 14, 2015 |
Respond methodically to points raised by Winsomex. Thank you sammied: |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by ABDULADINO(m): 7:16pm On Apr 14, 2015 |
I guess majority of major pentecoastal churches in nigeria should be labelled a cult if we are to follow the OP definition of a cult. They hero worship their leaders and most of what the Op listed are practised by some of these churches not only in CE. Though i dont subscribe to a one man show. I believe ministry should not be based on the gifts of a single man. True ministry entails many people working together to accomplish one goal- fufilling the ministry of Christ. Sons are arising, i believe the 21st century church is breaking away from the old order of creating stars like Moses and functioning as a body not as individuals. But in doing so we need to be careful of execessive criticism and mudslinging at christians who differ in views and doctrines. The Holy Spirit is never an author of confusion. We know who the cults are, those who deny the deity of Christ...Scriptures are clear on who the anti-christ is. My two kobo contribution. 1 Like |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by WinsomeX: 7:22pm On Apr 14, 2015 |
^^^ Welcome Bidam. |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by Kenny4lyfe(m): 7:54pm On Apr 14, 2015 |
sammied: You're welcome bro! |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by sammied(m): 7:54pm On Apr 14, 2015 |
vooks: Methodically? Can u define or explain that? If my points is not Methodically enough.... Lol.... I don't know again oooo... It's well... |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by MuttleyLaff: 7:55pm On Apr 14, 2015 |
Re: The Christ Embassy Church Is A Cult by ABDULADINO(m): 8:04pm On Apr 14, 2015 |
MuttleyLaff:Babagnoni..your writes up are unmistakable. |
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