MikeCZAR:
SA forces used MRLs in Bangui!

Here it shows you didn't read Helmond(former SADF citizen force officer)'s book.

agaugust:


Sure, a 3 barrel gatling gun from T-129 is enough to make you drop your coffee and run like SANDF, it's more deadly than 1,000 Seleka rifles.

Less powerful round? How?

102 mm Vs 139 mm, both will k.ill

So how is 102 mm less powerful? Can you survive it?

Nigerian AK-47 is 7.62 mm calibre

South African R-4 rifle is 5.56 mm calibre

You have just admitted that AK-47 rifle has a more powerful bullet than R-4 rifle. Thank you
.

agaugust:


Post the MRLS source here for us to verify dude, and stop acting like you have Down's Syndrome, born m0ron !
.

patches689:


Nigerian ASW helicopter with no crew?

How will it sink a submarine if it is stuck in its hangar?

xwolverine:


Col Eben himself on Beegeagles' blog

patches689:


lol, he is still trying to dig himself out of the hole he dug.

Face it mate, you thought all barrels fired at the same time - thats why you added up all of the calibers at the same time!!

Agustus you are a shameless troll. You no longer have a shred of credibility.

patches689:


The point, that you fail so abysmally to see is as follows:

1. Your military - when left to its own devices - was unable to stem the semi-conventional assault by Boko Haram, who were (largely) lightly armed at the time. The only heavy weapons (read: Armor/Artillery) they have has been captured from your army.
2. Your military - despite a $1 billion bail-out was unable to re-capture said lost territory
3. Your military was then forced to purchase the services of foreign mercenaries (Nationality of mercenaries is irrelevant at this point in time)
4. These mercenaries then provided training that your military was unable to provide for itself
4a. These mercenaries then provided technical support that your military was unable to provide for itself
4a. These men provided leadership that your miilitary was unable to provide for yourself.
5. It was only with the assistance of these mercenaries and pressure from the more effective Cameroonian and Chadian militarys that you were able to acheive any gains against boko-haram at all.

The conclusion is clear, your military is unable to provide the training/skills/support/leadership that your "boots" (grunts) need to win battles in semi-conventional warfare against untrained, lightly armed opponents.

REALITY CHECK: In Mali & after 3 months,36 Chadian troops killed,73 injured; AGAINST BH, 71 Chadian troops killed,416 injured in 3 months

agaugust:


We have crew, Lynx ASW is in reserve. Not needed now. No threat except piracy.

We save our best assets for the time of need. Nigeria does not use missile frigate to chase pirates like Southies do and wreck the Valour engines, you had to replaced a whole brand new engine within 3 years of purchase ! Nation of headless wasters, prodigals. Sensible countries use OPV for anti-piracy ops.

NN has Lynx ASW helos in reserve, same way SAN has 3 frigates and 2 submarines in reserve
.

xwolverine:


1. The issue of negligence affects even the world powers, this is caused by the limitations of us as humans. Reason why the US didn't envisage the menace of the ISI at the beginning when they pretended to be fighting against Assad in Syria.

2. Really ? I can't believe we are having this discussion when evidence shows that the weaponry purchased with the $2 Billion started coming in late January 2015. Looking at the timeline of the liberation of towns by the Nigerian Army, this coincides with the arrival of these weapons. A military budget according to you would immediately result in victory because you get the hardwares the same day. Talk of warped logic.

3. The US military is not incompetent when they had their asses whooped big time in Vietnam and presently in Yemen. There is a whole lot of difference in PMC instructors and Merceneries, and the STTEP falls in the former's category not the latter. 100 men would face an enemy in occupying a place the size of Belgium, is what fantasies are made of . It remains a fantasy because they were instructors not mercs. So you guys can stop having an e.rrection because of this.

4. American Government's use of PMC is tactical but wrong for Nigeria to use the same approach. These men are professionals employed to do a job, which requires a quick turn around time which they were duly paid for. The Cuban Mechanics currently helping SANDF makes the whole Mechanics in the SA military incompetent according to your inference.

5. Unlike Cameroon and Chad who constantly beg for military aid, Nigeria buys all of its military hardware with hard earned cash. Despite the refusal of the US to sell vital equipments, we were able through resilience and doggedness to turn the tides.




Not gloating or boasting, compare the casualties in the Nigerian Army with the Niger Army in recent weeks to show who really is a lightweight. The Niger and Cameroonian armies are loosing more personels than Nigeria which is heavily involved in fighting the militants in Sambisa Forest.

xwolverine:


Not gloating or boasting, compare the casualties in the Nigerian Army with the Niger Army in recent weeks to show who really is a lightweight. The Niger and Cameroonian armies are loosing more personels than Nigeria which is heavily involved in fighting the militants in Sambisa Forest.

patches689:


1. ISL Abrams can be defeated with the Mokopa or rendered combat ineffective with the Ingwe ZT3. Helo guns are not inteded for use against MBT's, and since our F2 autocannon fires a bigger round - it will be more effective than the gun found on the T-129

2. BVR missiles have allmost nothing to do with helicopters.

Allow me to highlight point 2:

- You say that T-129 radar allows BVR engagement. Let us consider the armament of the T-129:
-- AGM-114 Hellfire, max range: 8km (NOT BVR)
-- BGM-71 TOW (NOT RADAR GUIDED), max range: 4,2km (NOT BVR)
-- Hydra 70 (NOT RADAR GUIDED), max range: 8km (NOT BVR)
-- Spike (NOT RADAR GUIDED), max range: 25km (NOT BVR)
-- Mirzak-U, max range: 8km (NOT BVR)

So congratulations, you have shown only that you have no idea what you are talking about

"...in this age of BVR missiles...".

patches689:


Those figures show only one thing:

Niger and Cameroon are involved in actual combat. You are not.

patches689:


1. Irrelevant

2. Your military was caught ill prepared. That is utter negligence of the highest order. Hence why we purchase what we do. Do we need frigates right now? NO! But who knows what we will need tomorrow

3. Veitnam was a military victory for the US. US has only had limited footprint in Yemen. blah blah blah - see what executive ouctomes did with "100" men

4. US government use of PMC's is defensive only. And not for training and combat support THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE

5. Read your own sentance and see the hypocracy

saengine:


As suspected. You are unable to answer. Fake fake fake. When you pull the trigger on a gatling gun do the bullets come out the barrel following the same trajectory? (i.e in a line) yes or no?

Again...what is the orientation of those 3 rounds when leaving the barrel of a gatling gun? In a line or side by side?

patches689:


Face it mate, you thought all 3 barrels fired at the same time

patches689:


How do they train if it is in reserve?

Valour class are able to perform both AP duties as well as regular multi-national exercises. Your Augusta are maritime helicopters - they can be used for AP as well.

Valour Class engine got replaced? So what? we bought them to use them, and use them we have!!

You have no excuses, just like you have no ASW helicopter.

Pathetic navy, cant even keep your maritime helicopters operational!!

xwolverine:


Really?

So the number of dead soldiers equates to being actually involved in combat.

Damn... and I thought I was "arguing with a military enthusiast"...how wrong was I

xwolverine:



Talking about twisting words to suit your agenda, I said and I quote

Can you now tell me where I mentioned that the T-129 carries BVR missiles.

The argument was on the comparison of the guns on the 2 helicopters, an area where the T-129's gatling gun trumps the Rooivalk.

xwolverine:



Really?

So the number of dead soldiers equates to being actually involved in combat.

Damn... and I thought I was "arguing with a military enthusiast"...how wrong was I

xwolverine:



You're one funny guy.

Defensive only? when i quoted an article about their use in training and Block ops.

Wow...I'm amazed at your double speak

agaugust:
[size=13pt]


[s]
Watch my next video, it answers your question but also shows you have a low calibre brain that needs total upgrade to function on Nairaland



Gatling gun fires about 50 bullets per second.....confirmed !

One trigger pull will release 3 bullets in so short a time, split seconds so fast you cannot measure the time with a normal clock, it is as fast as if all 3 bullets came out together, the time difference is split seconds and infinitesimal, the time between the 3 bullets release is so short it's almost simultaneous....confirmed by video expert analysis of Gatling gun mechanism posted below.

Yes, T-129 has more firepower than Rooivalk.

All South Africans are foooools, your entire nation fails science on a daily basis [/size]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLEGE7k9FD4[/s]
.

agaugust:



When a T-29 gun fires a round, it sends out 3 shells of 102 mm each,

patches689:


So its the total caliber of bullets fired?

Is that what you are saying?

patches689:


You are saying that all helicopters with a single-barrel gun are incompetent designs?

You do realize the worlds best attack helo has a single barrel gun?

xwolverine:


Your Air force cannot maintain 26 Gripens after more than 9 years.
Your Navy cannot even connect an ordinary battery on your Subs, talk about incompetence.

patches689:


Quoted an opinion peice

Everyone has an opinion. My 9 year old neice has an opinion - it doesnt make it valid

xwolverine:










Whats the importance of bullets when the Rooivalk can only fire 300 rounds before taking 10 minutes to cool off?

-----

On the issue of guns, take for instance the Apache Longbow's M230 30mm lightweight automatic cannon is effective, but limited.

It fires 30mm linkless ammunition at a rate of 625 shots per minute. However, the gun duty cycle to prevent overheating is as follows: six 50-round bursts with 5 seconds between bursts followed by a 10-minute cooling period. For bursts limited settings other than 50, the duty cycle can be generalized as no more than 300 rounds fired within 60 seconds before allowing the gun to cool for ten minutes, after which the cycle may be repeated.

In short, an Apache can only fire 300 rounds before having to take a ten minute break to allow the gun to cool, and this assumes the gun never jams or malfunctions. Time on station is limited by fuel, and pilots attempting to avoid enemy anti-aircraft fire shouldn't circle aimlessly for 10 minutes after each brief gun engagement.
-------







No, I'm saying the single-barrel gun helicopters are not as effective as the Gatling toting modern helicopters

Now the modus operandi has changed, thats why I cited the ISI using Abrams, Guns on helicopters are not the primary weapons of choice anymore, and even if they are needed, the 300 rounds per minute limit on the M40 makes it less effective than a Gatling firing 3x of that in the same time.




In essence
T-129: Fires the whole rounds on board in approximately 1 minute, moves out and performs other duties.

Rooivalk: Fires the first set of 300 rounds, needs to loiter and circle aimlessly for 10 minutes before firing the remaining rounds.


The Primary purpose of guns on the helicopter is for suppression fire on snipers, and other hostiles while the helicopters acquire targets. If the mission requires more gunfights, the T-129 has the capability of mounting 4 more 12.7 mm (0.50 in) machine gun pod on its sides.

In each scenerio, it trumps the Rooivalk

xwolverine:


An opinion piece based on a narrative by one of the main actors?

How would your 9 year old niece view your integrity when you double speak at all times?

xwolverine:


Your Navy cannot even connect an ordinary battery on your Subs, talk about incompetence.

xwolverine:










Whats the importance of bullets when the Rooivalk can only fire 300 rounds before taking 10 minutes to cool off?

-----

On the issue of guns, take for instance the Apache Longbow's M230 30mm lightweight automatic cannon is effective, but limited.

It fires 30mm linkless ammunition at a rate of 625 shots per minute. However, the gun duty cycle to prevent overheating is as follows: six 50-round bursts with 5 seconds between bursts followed by a 10-minute cooling period. For bursts limited settings other than 50, the duty cycle can be generalized as no more than 300 rounds fired within 60 seconds before allowing the gun to cool for ten minutes, after which the cycle may be repeated.

In short, an Apache can only fire 300 rounds before having to take a ten minute break to allow the gun to cool, and this assumes the gun never jams or malfunctions. Time on station is limited by fuel, and pilots attempting to avoid enemy anti-aircraft fire shouldn't circle aimlessly for 10 minutes after each brief gun engagement.
-------







No, I'm saying the single-barrel gun helicopters are not as effective as the Gatling toting modern helicopters

Now the modus operandi has changed, thats why I cited the ISI using Abrams, Guns on helicopters are not the primary weapons of choice anymore, and even if they are needed, the 300 rounds per minute limit on the M40 makes it less effective than a Gatling firing 3x of that in the same time.




In essence
T-129: Fires the whole rounds on board in approximately 1 minute, moves out and performs other duties.

Rooivalk: Fires the first set of 300 rounds, needs to loiter and circle aimlessly for 10 minutes before firing the remaining rounds.


The Primary purpose of guns on the helicopter is for suppression fire on snipers, and other hostiles while the helicopters acquire targets. If the mission requires more gunfights, the T-129 has the capability of mounting 4 more 12.7 mm (0.50 in) machine gun pod on its sides.

In each scenerio, it trumps the Rooivalk

patches689:


And you have disproven my theory how?

Consider a comparison between the occupations of Veitnam and Iraq

Henry120:


Patches689 you've had your a$s handed to you!!!!

patches689:


1. The source is not talking about the F2 autocannon. So it is irrelevant
2. Guns have never been the main means of engaging MBTs - you are the clown whom thought that a 20mm autocannon can take out an MBT not me
3. Again, your argument is based on flawed logic - your source does not apply to the F2 gun.

You have yet to prove how it trumps the Rooivalk in any way

xwolverine:



1. the F2 auto-cannon is similar to the M230 - Fact
So the limitation remains relevant

2. You based your argument on the Rooivalk's gun, not me. I only schooled you on the F2 and other autocannon's limitations.

3. Irrelevant rebuttal.

Rooivalk - Old radar system with limited range.
T-129 - 128 Target acruisition simultaneously and ability to prioritise targets.

Rooivalk - 1990s tech, no longer in production.
T-129 - 2009 tech, currently in production.