ayoku777:


What has the event being in the future got to do with the fact that those are literal souls under a literal heavenly alter? The question is do souls of the dead go to heaven? And that scripture shows clearly that they do. Period!

And you also think souls need to be crammed under God's alter? Obviously you're imagining that God's alter and temple is the size of the alter of Solomon's temple.

The bible says Heaven is His throne and the earth is His footstool. With a God like that, the alter of His temple can take the world. Expand your imagination. Souls don't need to be crammed under the alter of God, it is big enough to take all of them, with room for many more. You're the one lacking imagination here.

And "bodily" doesn't need to be mentioned in that verse for you to know that the resurrection is a bodily resurrection. Every resurrection is a resurrection in body.

And it is bodies that sleep. When scripture talks about sleeping in death, it is the body.

Souls depart to be with Christ in heaven as that verse in Revelation makes clear.

Souls don't sleep after death. The souls of Abraham, Lazarus and the rich man were not asleep. They were alive, conscious and animate even after death. Just like the souls of these believers under the alter of God.

Shalom.

ayoku777:


How about you show me your research findings and we can begin from there.

Its very easy to tell others to go do research without you disproving what was said with scriptures and bible passages.

MizJanet:
;

Religion is indeed clueless , check the front page topic : if Christ is the only way to heaven, what about this people ?

MizJanet:


... I cant stop laughin at how you religious folks just uote things without checkin the context

Babylon exist in revelation ,its mere symbolic ,

Naital:


Lol. Just pretend I didn't make any comment.

I'd rather not engage myself in a fruitless quest.

MizJanet is enough challenge for you. Don't try me.

MizJanet:

All your rants and super imaginations are not needed. Revelation is said to be full of symbols.(revelation 1:1) So Let BIBLE EXPLAIN ITSELF.
soul under the altar
" for the soul of every sort of flesh is in its BLOOD" - LEV 17:14 . And this blood poured under the altar represent the SOUL OF THE SACRIFICIAL ANIMALS (lev 4:7)

That clearly indicate that God view the death of his servants as a sacrifice.

MizJanet:
Body of flesh
Really? What about this " it is sown a physical body, it is raised SPIRITUAL Body, if there is a physical body there is also a spirital one" 1cor 15:44

Spiritual body Is a gift at ressurection NOT somtin already possessed.

" David is asleep in death" Act 13:36 , who is david in that verse? Ordinary flesh

MizJanet:
@ bold , That verse in revelation is highly symbolic includin the white, red, pale, crook horsemens, and the event in sixth seal where stars fall on planet earth.

Is that not a parable , take it literal, if soul of abraham go to heaven , then christ is not the only way to heaven. The jews are right .

A parable is using practical truths to explain kingdom truth. A parable may not always be a historical fact, but it is always a practical fact. A parable may not always be a true-life story but it is always a true-to-life story. Parables are never unrealistic, they always contain facts of life.

johnw74:


Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

johnw74:


Ha ha, If you are anything like MizPoo then you have nothing but a bad mouth,
she say's s-h-i-t all over the place which the forum software changes to poo.

johnw74:

if it was allowed I would say she is a slowpoke.

ayoku777:


Jesus did not resurrect as a spirit, He resurrected with a spiritual body; an immortal physical body with flesh and bones. Infact that His "spiritual" body still had the pierced holes of the nails and the spear.

Naital:


Lol. Religious pple will never cease to amuse me. "Spiritual body"....hmmm spiritual physical body.

Naital:


Lol. Religious pple will never cease to amuse me. "Spiritual body"....hmmm spiritual physical body.

ayoku777:


That's the best expression I could come up with to explain the point I wanted to make.

But you can help me. How would you define the resurrection body of Christ? An immortal body of flesh and bones quickened with the life of the Spirit, not with blood.

Physical body? Or spiritual body? Or spiritual physical body?

ayoku777

You know; this your symbolism versus literal
argument thing is getting old.
Whatever you can't explain you call it symbolic not
literal. That is how you try to wiggle your way out of
every doctrinal dead end you put yourself.
Did the bible say our blood is our soul? Is it our
blood that goes to sheol after death?
Psalm 16v10 -For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell
(sheol) : neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see
Corruption.
Our blood does not go to sheol; our soul does. Our
soul is a living, animate, conscious part of our
existence; just like our spirit. And it doesn't sleep after
death. It departs with our spirit to either heaven or
hades after death.
Those are literal souls under a literal heavenly alter. It
doesn't symbolize blood.

A spiritual body is still a BODY with flesh and bones,
quickened with the life of the Spirit. The type Jesus
had when He rose from the dead. It is an immortal
Body, but it still has flesh and bones.
Jesus did not resurrect as a spirit ,

He resurrected with
a spiritual body;

an immortal physical body with flesh
and bones.

Infact that His "spiritual" body still had the
pierced holes of the nails and the spear.
Luke 24v39 -Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I
myself: handle me, and see;
For a spirit hath not flesh
and bones , as ye see me have.

At resurrection, we resurrect like Christ, with a
spiritual body -an immortal body with flesh and bones.
A spiritual body is still a physical body with flesh and
bones.

And yes it is our bodies that sleep. While our souls
and spirits goes to hades or heaven and it stays alive
after death.
Matthew 27v52 -And the graves were opened; and
Many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
The bodies of the saints sleep, while their souls and
Spirits departs and stays alive as with the rich man
and Lazarus. Their souls were not asleep in hades,
was it? It was their bodies asleep in the grave.

ayoku777

Here we go again with "it is symbolic" rant. That
something happened spiritually doesn't mean it is not
literal. The horsemen are literal spiritual horsemen.
Not everything in Revelation is symbolic, just spiritual
but no less literal.

Are
the lamb in Revelation symbolic too? Or literal
spiritual beings?

Then this story is clearly not a parable and it is not
symbolic. It is a story about people who truly lived
once and died and what happened in sheol after they
died.

Abraham and Lazarus were not in heaven. They were
still in sheol here but not in the torment side.
No one was righteous enough for heaven until Jesus
came. Everyone went to sheol after death, but those
who pleased God did not go to the torment side of
Sheol. It was after Christ came that believers now go
To be with the Lord after they die according to Paul.
But this story is not a parable, it is a true case
scenario of what takes place in sheol. And it shows
and proves very clearly that souls don't sleep after
death. They stay alive and conscious and animate in
Sheol or heaven.
And even if I were to give your claim a benefit of the
doubt, as farfetched as it is; and say the rich man and
Lazarus was a parable

Naital:


I wish I could help you explain the inexplicable. .... but you see, this is what happens when you try to make sense of what does not make sense.

ayoku777:


So any thing that can't be articulated must be because it doesn't make sense?

The things of God have a greater depth of reality than the human language can fully articulated or even have a word for in the dictionary.

That's why when Paul took a trip to paradise the third heaven; he said he heard "unspeakable words".

2Cor 12v4 -How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

The mind of God is heavier than what any human tongue can fully articulate. The human language or even dictionaries don't have enough words yet to fully make sense of all the thoughts conveyed in the scriptures.

That's why the scriptures are understood not just by being studious with it, but by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.


Shalom

MizJanet:


" For we are really not writing you about anything except WHAT YOU CAN READ AND UNDERSTAND " 2 Corinthians 1:13

ayoku777:


Paul was writing to believers. People who already have the Holy Spirit and can receive inspiration from Him when they seek Him.

But about unbelievers; Paul said this:

1Cor 2v14 -But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

An unbeliever cannot receive spiritual inspiration; he can only be studious with the letter.

Shalom

MizJanet:

You are just setting traps for yourself

Who is an unbelive ? A muslim, a jew or millions of hypocrites shoutin christinaity, who carry bible up and down but secretely visits sexuality sites , fornicate and masturbate like a natural man ?

ayoku777:


An unbeliever is anyone who has not put his faith and hope of salvation in Christ's death and resurrection.


Now, a believer in Christ who still visits porn sites, fornicates and masturbates is not an unbeliever; he is a carnal believer , or a baby in Christ.

1Cor 3v1-3 -And I brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

A believer in Christ that still sins is not an unbeliever. He is a carnal christian.

Naital:


I don't insult pple. ... & I never said I'm like her.



See who's got a bad mouth.

MizJanet:

^^
Abraham and Isaac made heaven without Jesus ? Yes or no

MizJanet:
So no wonder religion continue to cause problem in the society : the code is once you belive , you can sin as you like , aftrall you are still a babe in christ ehn .

MizJanet:
If carnal christians are belivers ,why would dey be thrown out of the church ? 1cor 5:11-13

Why whould others be WARNED not to associate with them ? 1cor 5:11-13

johnw74:


No

It was known even before the creation who is to be saved. Search for the scriptures. If you want to.
Jesus Christ-the Word worked in the lives of the Old Testament Saints just as He does the New Testament believers.

1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

johnw74:


No

It was known even before the creation who is to be saved. Search for the scriptures. If you want to.
Jesus Christ-the Word worked in the lives of the Old Testament Saints just as He does the New Testament believers.

1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

MizJanet:
Strollin along some of the threads , I saw someone quote this bible verse . Pls lets use our brain here .
______________

" fear him who can destroy both soul and BODY in hell' matt 10:28 .

The question that arise is : do BODY go to hell ? , BODY go to where ? Hell or grave . I thought body is placed in the grave or religion is clueless ?

ayoku777:


True; the gospel of grace and righteousness through faith, albeit sound; has been abused by many believers.

But there is no where in scripture that carnality or remaining a babe in Christ is encouraged. Carnality grieves the Holy Spirit and no believer should enjoy grieving the Holy Spirit.

But one major reason for this problem is the lack of leaders with the heart of a disciple. We have lots of pastors and speakers in the church


Yeah those kind of actions from the brethren is passive rebuke. It doesn't mean the person is no more a believer.

MizJanet:


Call them carnal christian, call them babe in christ , those hypocrites are everywhere . The bible God didnt accept them as his belivers .


" they publicly declare to know God, but they disown him by their works, because they are detestable and not even approved for good work of any sort > Titus 1:16

hopelink1:
i feel your 'madness' state of mind

ayoku777:


You don't establish doctrine with individual scriptures. It is the combination of scriptures that reveal the whole counsel of God.

MizJanet:


You have just displayed the fruit of religion