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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / WHY Religion Is Clueless (10354 Views)
Religion Is Very Important And I'm Not Atheist - Mark Zuckerberg, Fbk Founder / Why Religion Is Clueless ( Section 2) (2) (3) (4)
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Re: WHY Religion Is Clueless by MizJanet(f): 10:07pm On May 31, 2015 |
ayoku777:All your rants and super imaginations are not needed. Revelation is said to be full of symbols.(revelation 1:1) So Let BIBLE EXPLAIN ITSELF. soul under the altar " for the soul of every sort of flesh is in its BLOOD" - LEV 17:14 . And this blood poured under the altar represent the SOUL OF THE SACRIFICIAL ANIMALS (lev 4:7) That clearly indicate that God view the death of his servants as a sacrifice. Body of flesh Really? What about this " it is sown a physical body, it is raised SPIRITUAL Body, if there is a physical body there is also a spirital one" 1cor 15:44 Spiritual body Is a gift at ressurection NOT somtin already possessed.
" David is asleep in death" Act 13:36 , who is david in that verse? Ordinary flesh ![]() @ bold , That verse in revelation is highly symbolic includin the white, red, pale, crook horsemens, and the event in sixth seal where stars fall on planet earth. Is that not a parable , take it literal, if soul of abraham go to heaven , then christ is not the only way to heaven. The jews are right . |
Re: WHY Religion Is Clueless by Naital(m): 12:17am On Jun 01, 2015 |
ayoku777: Lol. Just pretend I didn't make any comment. I'd rather not engage myself in a fruitless quest. MizJanet is enough challenge for you. Don't try me. ![]() |
Re: WHY Religion Is Clueless by johnw74: 12:48am On Jun 01, 2015 |
MizJanet: Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. |
Re: WHY Religion Is Clueless by johnw74: 12:59am On Jun 01, 2015 |
MizJanet: Babylon in Revelation is a real city. Not the old Babylon, that's why it's called MYSTERY BABYLON. God doesn't have His Angel call His people to come out of a symbolic city, a city that doesn't exist. Rev_17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH Rev_18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. |
Re: WHY Religion Is Clueless by johnw74: 1:23am On Jun 01, 2015 |
Naital: Ha ha, If you are anything like MizPoo then you have nothing but a bad mouth, she say's s-h-i-t all over the place which the forum software changes to poo. She is not a believer yet she uses the bible to try and ridicule believers, if it was allowed I would say she is a slowpoke. < forum software changed it ![]() |
Re: WHY Religion Is Clueless by ayoku777(m): 4:27am On Jun 01, 2015 |
MizJanet: You know; this your symbolism versus literal argument thing is getting old. Whatever you can't explain you call it symbolic not literal. That is how you try to wiggle your way out of every doctrinal dead end you put yourself. Did the bible say our blood is our soul? Is it our blood that goes to sheol after death? Psalm 16v10 -For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell (sheol) : neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Our blood does not go to sheol; our soul does. Our soul is a living, animate, conscious part of our existence; just like our spirit. And it doesn't sleep after death. It departs with our spirit to either heaven or hades after death. Those are literal souls under a literal heavenly alter. It doesn't symbolize blood. MizJanet: A spiritual body is still a BODY with flesh and bones, quickened with the life of the Spirit. The type Jesus had when He rose from the dead. It is an immortal body, but it still has flesh and bones. Jesus did not resurrect as a spirit, He resurrected with a spiritual body; an immortal physical body with flesh and bones. Infact that His "spiritual" body still had the pierced holes of the nails and the spear. Luke 24v39 -Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. At resurrection, we resurrect like Christ, with a spiritual body -an immortal body with flesh and bones. A spiritual body is still a physical body with flesh and bones. And yes it is our bodies that sleep. While our souls and spirits goes to hades or heaven and it stays alive after death. Matthew 27v52 -And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, The bodies of the saints sleep, while their souls and spirits departs and stays alive as with the rich man and Lazarus. Their souls were not asleep in hades, was it? It was their bodies asleep in the grave. MizJanet: Here we go again with "it is symbolic" rant. That something happened spiritually doesn't mean it is not literal. The horsemen are literal spiritual horsemen. Not everything in Revelation is symbolic, just spiritual but no less literal. Are the angels, the 24 elders and the lamb in Revelation symbolic too? Or literal spiritual beings? Then this story is clearly not a parable and it is not symbolic. It is a story about people who truly lived once and died and what happened in sheol after they died. Abraham and Lazarus were not in heaven. They were still in sheol here but not in the torment side. No one was righteous enough for heaven until Jesus came. Everyone went to sheol after death, but those who pleased God did not go to the torment side of sheol. It was after Christ came that believers now go to be with the Lord after they die according to Paul. But this story is not a parable, it is a true case scenario of what takes place in sheol. And it shows and proves very clearly that souls don't sleep after death. They stay alive and conscious and animate in sheol or heaven. And even if I were to give your claim a benefit of the doubt, as farfetched as it is; and say the rich man and lazarus was a parable. What then is a parable? A parable is the use of physical realities or practical facts of life to explain kingdom spiritual truths. A parable is more than symbolism; it is using practical life realities to explain kingdom truths. I love this definition of a parable: A parable is using practical truths to explain kingdom truth. A parable may not always be a historical fact, but it is always a practical fact. A parable may not always be a true-life story but it is always a true-to-life story. Parables are never unrealistic, they always contain facts of life. That means, souls going to hades and staying alive and conscious after death, like Lazarus and the rich man and Abraham is a practical reality of life. Just like sowing and reaping is a practical reality in the parable of the sower. Or you want to say because the parable of the sower is not a true life story, therefore sowing and reaping is not a fact of life? Even if parables are not true life stories, the scenario they depict are facts of life and practical realities. Meaning souls going to hades is a fact. No matter how you want to swing the argument (parable or not). The story of the rich man and Lazarus shows and proves that human souls and spirits stay alive, animate and conscious after death, in hades or heaven. Shalom! |
Re: WHY Religion Is Clueless by MizJanet(f): 7:23am On Jun 01, 2015 |
johnw74: ^^ Abraham and Isaac made heaven without jesus ? Yes or no 2 Likes |
Re: WHY Religion Is Clueless by Naital(m): 8:20am On Jun 01, 2015 |
johnw74: I don't insult pple. ... & I never said I'm like her. johnw74: See who's got a bad mouth. 1 Like |
Re: WHY Religion Is Clueless by Naital(m): 8:39am On Jun 01, 2015 |
ayoku777: Lol. Religious pple will never cease to amuse me. "Spiritual body"....hmmm spiritual physical body. ![]() |
Re: WHY Religion Is Clueless by johnydon22(m): 8:55am On Jun 01, 2015 |
Naital: I don't think he really knows the meaning of body...!!! |
Re: WHY Religion Is Clueless by ayoku777(m): 8:59am On Jun 01, 2015 |
Naital: That's the best expression I could come up with to explain the point I wanted to make. But you can help me. How would you define the resurrection body of Christ? An immortal body of flesh and bones quickened with the life of the Spirit, not with blood. Physical body? Or spiritual body? Or spiritual physical body? ![]() |
Re: WHY Religion Is Clueless by Naital(m): 9:18am On Jun 01, 2015 |
ayoku777: I wish I could help you explain the inexplicable. .... but you see, this is what happens when you try to make sense of what does not make sense. ![]() 2 Likes |
Re: WHY Religion Is Clueless by MizJanet(f): 9:39am On Jun 01, 2015 |
ayoku777 I love that psalm 16:10 that you quote , soul in sheol , hope u are aware that sheol is a place of inactivity , " for there is no work Nor planning , nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol, where you are going" Ecclesistes 9:10 " For in death, there is no mention of you; in sheol, who will praise you ?" psalm 6:5 " For sheol cannot glorify you, death cannot praise you , those going down into the pit cannot hope for your faithfulness" isa 38:18 " what profit is there in my death, in my going down to the pit? Will THE DUST Praise you? Will it tell of your faithfulness " Psalm 30:9 |
Re: WHY Religion Is Clueless by MizJanet(f): 9:41am On Jun 01, 2015 |
[color=purple] " he was put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit" 1pet 3:18 Jesus " became a life-giving spirit" 1cor 15:45 You are now sayin the truth, hope you know or do i have to teach you again that a spiritual body is also called an heavenly body ? Ur bible said Angels are spirit beings, thus they have an heavenly/spiritual body , so they have flesh and bones ? #coughs#
Wow , see the bold , QUESTION: Is Jesus a spirit or fleshly being ? If spirit , then that should tell you both the human body and CLOTHES he put on are done like angels did in the past .
Stop sharing heresy, The bible you quote said spirit body is not physical body( 1cor 15:44), Jesus himself said spirit dont have flesh and bones . Thats for humans, goats and other earthly beings
Okay, i get your problem I) what is soul ? Ii) what is the spirit in earthly creatures (man and animals)? |
Re: WHY Religion Is Clueless by MizJanet(f): 9:50am On Jun 01, 2015 |
So death which is not a person , can ride a horse , or is death a person created by God? ![]() Hades has legs and was folowin the person created by God named death , ![]() ...
not symbolic, wow Jesus look like a lamb . INTERESTING
BIBLE Contradiction: righteous lazarus was a beggar but bible said a righteous man will not beg (psalm 37:25) ![]()
BIBLE CONTRADICTION: " there is no knowledge in sheol" ecc 9:10, but both abraham and the ricman could recall previous knowledge. INTERESTING ![]() ![]() So is abraham still in sheol ? |
Re: WHY Religion Is Clueless by ayoku777(m): 10:23am On Jun 01, 2015 |
Naital: So any thing that can't be articulated must be because it doesn't make sense? The things of God have a greater depth of reality than the human language can fully articulated or even have a word for in the dictionary. That's why when Paul took a trip to paradise the third heaven; he said he heard "unspeakable words". 2Cor 12v4 -How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. The mind of God is heavier than what any human tongue can fully articulate. The human language or even dictionaries don't have enough words yet to fully make sense of all the thoughts conveyed in the scriptures. That's why the scriptures are understood not just by being studious with it, but by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Job 32v8 -But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding. Shalom |
Re: WHY Religion Is Clueless by MizJanet(f): 10:35am On Jun 01, 2015 |
ayoku777: " For we are really not writing you about anything except WHAT YOU CAN READ AND UNDERSTAND " 2 Corinthians 1:13 |
Re: WHY Religion Is Clueless by ayoku777(m): 10:43am On Jun 01, 2015 |
MizJanet: Paul was writing to believers. People who already have the Holy Spirit and can receive inspiration from Him when they seek Him. But about unbelievers; Paul said this: 1Cor 2v14 -But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. An unbeliever cannot receive spiritual inspiration; he can only be studious with the letter. Shalom |
Re: WHY Religion Is Clueless by MizJanet(f): 10:59am On Jun 01, 2015 |
ayoku777: You are just setting traps for yourself Who is an unbeliver ? A muslim, a jew or millions of hypocrites shoutin christinaity, who carry bible up and down but secretely visits sexuality sites , fornicate and masturbate like a natural man ? Or those pastors we heard on daily basis perpetuatin fraud and adultery ? Or those of you that call others " slowpoke" like your hypocrite brother up there ? Hypocrisy at its peak 1 Like |
Re: WHY Religion Is Clueless by ayoku777(m): 11:13am On Jun 01, 2015 |
MizJanet: An unbeliever is anyone who has not put his faith and hope of salvation in Christ's death and resurrection. And anyone who believes and confesses that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God; and that He died for our sins and rose for our justification is a believer. Romans 10v9 -That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Now, a believer in Christ who still visits porn sites, fornicates and masturbates is not an unbeliever; he is a carnal believer, or a baby in Christ. 1Cor 3v1-3 -And I brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? A believer in Christ that still sins is not an unbeliever. He is a carnal christian. A babe in Christ. He is still in Christ. You don't become an unbeliever until you denounce or depart from your faith in Christ. A christian should bring forth good works, but good works is not what makes you a christian. Shalom |
Re: WHY Religion Is Clueless by MizJanet(f): 12:09pm On Jun 01, 2015 |
ayoku777: So no wonder religion continue to cause problem in the society : the code is once you belive , you can sin as you like , aftrall you are still a babe in christ ehn ![]() If carnal christians are belivers ,why would dey be thrown out of the church ? 1cor 5:11-13 Why whould others be WARNED not to associate with them ? 1cor 5:11-13 2 Likes |
Re: WHY Religion Is Clueless by johnw74: 1:03pm On Jun 01, 2015 |
Naital: That's what you like to think and say, but that line to me was humorous. |
Re: WHY Religion Is Clueless by johnw74: 1:18pm On Jun 01, 2015 |
MizJanet: No It was known even before the creation who is to be saved. Search for the scriptures. If you want to. Jesus Christ-the Word worked in the lives of the Old Testament Saints just as He does the New Testament believers. 1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, |
Re: WHY Religion Is Clueless by ayoku777(m): 2:36pm On Jun 01, 2015 |
MizJanet: True; the gospel of grace and righteousness through faith, albeit sound; has been abused by many believers. But there is no where in scripture that carnality or remaining a babe in Christ is encouraged. Carnality grieves the Holy Spirit and no believer should enjoy grieving the Holy Spirit. But one major reason for this problem is the lack of leaders with the heart of a disciple. We have lots of pastors and speakers in the church, but there is a scarcity of leaders who are true disciples. But that is set to change I believe. But that is not a topic for this thread. MizJanet: Yeah those kind of actions from the brethren is passive rebuke. It doesn't mean the person is no more a believer. It is actually another form of rebuke for the obstinate brethren to help him reconsider his carnality. When counsel, exhortation, and rebuke by word of mouth doesn't work; the church can try passive rebuke. We give him space, while we continue to interceed for him. But we should also not over-do it, lest the enemy takes advantage of the distance and situation. Paul himself later advised the same. 2Cor 2v6,8,11 -Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many. Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him. Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices. Wisdom is needed, with intercession; when dealing with a rebellious carnal brethren. Even so, passive rebuke doesn't mean he has become an unbeliever. Passive rebuke is equally for the purpose of repentance and restoration. Shalom. 1 Like |
Re: WHY Religion Is Clueless by johnydon22(m): 2:45pm On Jun 01, 2015 |
johnw74: so god already knew the people who will have to go to hell, millions of years before creating them? 1 Like |
Re: WHY Religion Is Clueless by MizJanet(f): 4:40pm On Jun 01, 2015 |
johnw74: Wetin dis one dey talk ? Let me help u rearrange the question: Abraham and isaac make heaven without Jesus dyin for their sin ? Yes or no 1 Like |
Re: WHY Religion Is Clueless by Nobody: 4:47pm On Jun 01, 2015 |
i feel your 'madness' state of mind MizJanet: |
Re: WHY Religion Is Clueless by MizJanet(f): 4:53pm On Jun 01, 2015 |
ayoku777: Call them carnal christian, call them babe in christ , those hypocrites are everywhere . The bible God didnt accept them as his belivers . " they publicly declare to know God, but they disown him by their works, because they are detestable and not even approved for good work of any sort > Titus 1:16 |
Re: WHY Religion Is Clueless by ayoku777(m): 5:13pm On Jun 01, 2015 |
MizJanet: You don't establish doctrine with individual scriptures. It is the combination of scriptures that reveal the whole counsel of God. If you read the bible as a whole, you will see that God doesn't give up on His people when they sin or stumble. Like Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon etc. Everyone of us is born again as a babe in Christ. No one is perfect at salvation. We stumble and fall like every baby until we learn how to walk with God. It is as we fellowship with the Holy Spirit in the place of the word that we grow in grace and in the knowledge of Christ. The renewing of the mind and the reformation of the soul is not an instant work. It is a gradual process. A christian who sins is not necessary a hypocrite. He is a baby christian who is still learning to know Christ and appreciate being like him. Stumbling is a normal part of learning to walk. If an earthly parent does not give up on their children when they stumble, even many times; how much more will Jesus not give up on His own people. We don't love and have patience with our children more than God. The church will get there. Christ is coming for a glorious church; and He will meet a glorious church. The Holy Spirit will not fail. |
Re: WHY Religion Is Clueless by MizJanet(f): 5:22pm On Jun 01, 2015 |
1 Like
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Re: WHY Religion Is Clueless by MizJanet(f): 5:40pm On Jun 01, 2015 |
ayoku777: ![]() " the soul that sins , SHALL DIE " And close your eyes again to another verse that said : " the living dog is better than a dead lion, the livin know that they will die but as for the dead, they KNOW NOTHING at all " Ecclesistes 9:4,5 And close your eyes at isaiah 26:14, contrastin the dead with the living " they are DEAD, they shall NOT LIVE , impotent in death , They will not rise up" . ...............................o.......................... Contradiction galore ![]() 1 Like |
Re: WHY Religion Is Clueless by Nobody: 5:40pm On Jun 01, 2015 |
if you tell a mad man that he is mad , is that a sin? MizJanet:though the mad man might not agree that he is mad |
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