hopelink1:
if you tell a mad man that he is mad , is that a sin?though the mad man might not agree that he is mad

You are a man, am a lady ; who does the expression "mad MAN" fits ?

English

MizJanet:


You are a man, am a lady ; who does the expression "mad MAN" fits ?

johnydon22:


so god already knew the people who will have to go to hell, millions of years before creating them?

There is nothing in these verses about those to go to hell.
It looks to me from scriptures that names can be written into and erased from the book of life,
so it must have something to do with the individual, whether he wants to be saved or not.

Some though are apparently chosen to be saved:

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

MizJanet:



Wetin dis one dey talk ?

Let me help u rearrange the question: Abraham and isaac make heaven without Jesus dyin for their sin ? Yes or no

You are not interisted in Truth and you don't understand Truth

MizJanet:

Wetin dis one dey talk ?

And I don't play games with God's way, as with you it's all a game, I may continue to show up some of your unscriptual nonsense though.

MizJanet:


You are just setting traps for yourself

Who is an unbeliver ? A muslim, a jew or millions of hypocrites shoutin christinaity, who carry bible up and down but secretely visits sexuality sites , fornicate and masturbate like a natural man ? Or those pastors we heard on daily basis perpetuatin fraud and adultery ? Or those of you that call others " slowpoke" like your hypocrite brother up there ? Hypocrisy at its peak

Truth isn't hypocrisy, but I'm not surprised you don't know yourself.

johnw74:

There is nothing in these verses about those to go to hell.
It looks to me from scriptures that names can be written into and erased from the book of life,
so it must have something to do with the individual, whether he wants to be saved or not.

Some though are apparently chosen to be saved:

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

You know i didn't ask for this long boring quotes, my question was simple i dont know where the long post came from...

@bolded, So you mean god doesn't quite know who will go and who will not before creating them

why do you people have a knack for contradicting yourselves? Here is your post that i quoted.

johnw74:

It was known even before the creation who is to be saved. Search for the
scriptures. If you want to.

Now you change your stance and assert the opposite...

Which one is it: Does he know the people that will be saved millions of years before creating them or not

MizJanet:

, so you knew this yet you hold on to rev 6:9 in a book already said to be presented in symbols and close your eyes to Ezekiel 18:4 And 20 that said


" the soul that sins , SHALL DIE "


And close your eyes again to another verse that said :

" the living dog is better than a dead lion, the livin know that they will die but as for the dead, they KNOW NOTHING at all " Ecclesistes 9:4,5

And close your eyes at isaiah 26:14, contrastin the dead with the living

" they are DEAD, they shall NOT LIVE , impotent in death , They will not rise up" .


...............................o..........................
Contradiction galore

No one is saying there are no symbols in scriptures. The scripture is full of symbolic texts, just as it is full of literal texts.

Scriptures are interpreted in 4 basic styles.

1. Literal texts
2. Symbolic texts
3. Contextual texts
4. Prophetic texts

These are the four hermeneutics of scriptures (styles of interpreting scriptural texts)

So while there are indeed symbolic texts in scripture; what I'm saying is that not all texts are symbolic. And one of such texts is the story of "The rich man and Lazarus".

The story is not symbolic. It is either a true life story or a true-to-life story. A historical fact of life or practical fact of life -but a fact of life nonetheless.

Meaning that, parable or not; the story clearly proves that souls depart to hades or heaven after death, and they remain animate and conscious there.

You desperately wanted to play the "symbolic" card with this story, so you can claim that souls talking and being conscious after death as in the story is symbolic not literal. But it is not symbolic, it is a factual description by Christ of what happens in hades after death.

Death is not the cessation of existence. If souls cease to exist after death, how was the witch of Endor able to conjur up the spirit of Samuel the prophet after he had died? (1Samuel 28v15)

And if souls know nothing after death, how was Samuel able to know that Saul and his son would die the next day? (1Samuel 28v19)

It means the verses you quoted of the dead knowing nothing should be interpreted contextually; in the context of the human body. It is the human body that decays and returns to dust; and knows nothing anymore after death. The human souls stays active, animate and conscious in hades or heaven after death.

Stop giving every text symbolic interpretation.

Shalom

... Where is CAPTIVATOR ? Pls come to this thread .

Let me just observe

johnydon22:


You know i didn't ask for this long boring quotes, my question was simple i dont know where the long post came from...

Wow such a long post, I wouldn't be surprised if you never asked me anything again.

So you mean

No I don't

why do you people have a knack for contradicting yourselves? Here is your post that i quoted.

Now you change your stance

surely you mistaken

and assert the opposite...

no i didn't do that

Which one is it: Does he know the people that will be saved millions of years before creating them or not

There is nothing He does not know

be sure to ask me anything more you want to know,
you come back now you hear.

johnw74:

There is nothing He does not know

So he already knows the people that will go to hell before creating them right?

ayoku777:


No one is saying there are no symbols in scriptures. The scripture is full of symbolic texts, just as it is full of literal texts.

Scriptures are interpreted in 4 basic styles.

1. Literal texts
2. Symbolic texts
3. Contextual texts
4. Prophetic texts

These are the four hermeneutics of scriptures (styles of interpreting scriptural texts)

So while there are indeed symbolic texts in scripture; what I'm saying is that not all texts are symbolic. And one of such texts is the story of "The rich man and Lazarus".

The story is not symbolic. It is either a true life story or a true-to-life story. A historical fact of life or practical fact of life -but a fact of life nonetheless.

Meaning that, parable or not; the story clearly proves that souls depart to hades or heaven after death, and they remain animate and conscious there.

You desperately wanted to play the "symbolic" card with this story, so you can claim that souls talking and being conscious after death as in the story is symbolic not literal. But it is not symbolic, it is a factual description by Christ of what happens in hades after death.

Ayoku777 let me destroy your cries on this parable once and for all time .

1) did Jesus say its the richman and lazarus soul that went there or you infer it yourself

THE BOMB:

You said body dont go to hades , how come the richman has eyes and tongue ? Do soul has tongue , or you want to tell me that if i dig his grave , his tongue wont be there.

Religious cluelessness

Death is not the cessation of existence. If souls cease to exist after death, how was the witch of Endor able to conjur up the spirit of Samuel the prophet after he had died? (1Samuel 28v15)

And if souls know nothing after death, how was Samuel able to know that Saul and his son would die the next day? (1Samuel 28v19)

Everyone knows it forgery, even people do it nowadays . Or your god operate thru witches too ? So all this herbalists are godsent ?

It means the verses you quoted of the dead knowing nothing should be interpreted contextually; in the context of the human body.

Lie , so the first statement "living know that they will die" living is just human body ?

It is the human body that decays and returns to dust ; and knows nothing anymore after death. The human souls stays active, animate and conscious in hades or heaven after death.

Stop giving every text symbolic interpretation.

Shalom

" you are dust and to dust you shall return" , who is the YOU ?

CANTICLES:


... Where is CAPTIVATOR ? Pls come to this thread .


Let me just observe

Lets hear from you too, seems all the godless are here

johnydon22:


So he already knows the people that will go to hell before creating them right?

pity you can't ask Him, right?

ayoku777:


No one is saying there are no symbols in scriptures. The scripture is full of symbolic texts, just as it is full of literal texts.

Scriptures are interpreted in 4 basic styles.

1. Literal texts
2. Symbolic texts
3. Contextual texts
4. Prophetic texts

These are the four hermeneutics of scriptures (styles of interpreting scriptural texts)

So while there are indeed symbolic texts in scripture; what I'm saying is that not all texts are symbolic. And one of such texts is the story of "The rich man and Lazarus".

The story is not symbolic. It is either a true life story or a true-to-life story. A historical fact of life or practical fact of life -but a fact of life nonetheless.

Meaning that, parable or not; the story clearly proves that souls depart to hades or heaven after death, and they remain animate and conscious there.


You desperately wanted to play the "symbolic" card with this story, so you can claim that souls talking and being conscious after death as in the story is symbolic not literal. But it is not symbolic, it is a factual description by Christ of what happens in hades after death.

Death is not the cessation of existence.

If death is not the cessation of existence , it means humans will continue to exist , an automatic everlasting life, WHY WOULD JESUS CLAIM TO GIVE MAKIND EVERLASTING LIFE THRU HIS DEATH IF ITS SOMETHING ALREADY A PART OF US ? Joh 3:16

If souls cease to exist after death, how was the witch of Endor able to conjur up the spirit of Samuel the prophet after he had died? (1Samuel 28v15)

And if souls know nothing after death, how was Samuel able to know that Saul and his son would die the next day? (1Samuel 28v19)

I wonder where you and your witch controlled samuel got his messages from , scripture says the TRUE GOD IS NOT SPEAKIN TO SAUL ANYMORE.

FALSE PREDICTION:

If he is sent from God, Why would he say philistines will kill saul , whereas saul commits suicide ?

It means the verses you quoted of the dead knowing nothing should be interpreted contextually; in the context of the human body. It is the human body that decays and returns to dust; and knows nothing anymore after death. The human souls stays active, animate and conscious in hades or heaven after death.

Nobody exist before his birth, and death is a CURSE that return all the living to non existence .
" to dust you shall RETURN" Gen 3:19

johnw74:


pity you can't ask Him, right?

Hahahahahaha is that a dodging method? . . .. . . You have been speaking for him here why dont you finish up since he needs u to speak for him..


He knows people who will go to hell before creating them right? Please answer..

johnw74:


Lets hear from you too, seems all the godless are here

Arent you also here ? The op might be an atheist or agnostic , that doesnt mean everyone participating on the thread are athiests.

Meanwhile , she made a very good point from her observation @ matt 10:28

johnydon22:


Hahahahahaha is that a dodging method? . . .. . . You have been speaking for him here why dont you finish up since he needs u to speak for him..


He knows people who will go to hell before creating them right? Please answer..

No I'm not going to tell you,
don't like blasphemers.

johnw74:


No I'm not going to tell you,
don't like blasphemers.

Hahahahaha another method of accepting you don't know?

You have being here quoting bible verses, Just one question and you are on your heels.

What you call blasphemy, i call skepticism .. So just say you dont know or just answer..

He knows people who will go to hell before creating them Yes or No??

johnydon22:


Hahahahaha another method of accepting you don't know?

You have being here quoting bible verses, Just one question and you are on your heels.

What you call blasphemy, i call skepticism .. So just say you dont know or just answer..

He knows people who will go to hell before creating them Yes or No??

Ok, you dont know or just answer..

MizJanet:
let me destroy your cries on this parable once and for all time .

1) did Jesus say its the richman and lazarus soul that went there or you infer it yourself

THE BOMB:

You said body dont go to hades , how come the richman has eyes and tongue ? Do soul has tongue , or you want to tell me that if i dig his grave , his tongue wont be there.

Religious cluelessness

Please show me a scripture that says only bodies have those parts; or that souls and spirits don't have hands and eyes and tongues like our bodies.

Is God not a spirit? Does God not have eyes and hands, and mouth? Are angels not spirits? Do angels not have eyes, hands, mouth etc?

Please show me a scripture that portends that only our bodies have those parts and not our spirits and souls. Then you would have made sense. For now I've not seen any bomb.

It is the souls of the rich man and Lazarus that was in sheol.

MizJanet:
Everyone knows it forgery, even people do it nowadays . Or your god operate thru witches too ? So all this herbalists are godsent ?

Listen or read; before Jesus Christ came and took the keys of death and hell; the devil had the power of death and power over sheol.

Rev 1v18 -I am He that liveth, and was dead; and, behold am alive for evermore, Amen: and have they keys of hades and of death.

Hebrews 2v14 -...that through death He (Jesus) might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

The devil had the powers of death and over sheol; and even though he could not raise the dead; he could conjur up the spirits of the dead.

Obviously now he does not have the power of death anymore; that's why the verse said "had the power of death". Jesus now has the keys of death and hell.

So clearly, any medium saying now that he can conjur up the spirit of dead loved ones is actually conjuring evil or familiar spirits pretending to be those dead loved ones.

But it was truly possible before, when the devil still had the power of death and power over sheol.

So that was indeed the spirit of Samuel the prophet. And the scriptures equally confirmed it was Samuel when it said;

And Samuel said to Saul, (1Samuel 28v15)

It didn't say, "and the spirit said to Saul". If the scripture had said "and the spirit said"; then we can have an argument over whether it meant the spirit of Samuel or a familiar spirit pretending to be Samuel.

But the scripture was graciously specific enough to say "and SAMUEL said".

This removes all ambiguities and arguments to the fact that that was the spirit of Samuel the prophet.

Proving that souls stay alive, conscious and animate after death. It is the body that decays and returns to dusts and knows nothing anymore after death NOT THE SOUL.

MizJanet:
Lie , so the first statement "living know that they will die" living is just human body?

The living is alive in body, soul and spirit. When they die, the body decays and turns to dust while the soul and spirit descends to hades or ascends to heaven.

MizJanet:

" you are dust and to dust you shall return" , who is the YOU ?

Jesus Christ also died and was buried. Yet when He was "dead and buried" He was busy preaching to the spirits in prison in sheol.

1Peter 3v18-19 -... being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the spirit:

By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

So while Jesus was dead He was busy preaching. How can a dead man be preaching? Which part was dead? Which part was alive preaching?

This further establishes that the spirit stays alive, animate and conscious even after the body is dead and buried. Like the spirit of Samuel and like the soul of the rich man and Lazarus in hades.

Shalom

johnw74:


You are not interisted in Truth and you don't understand Truth



And I don't play games with God's way, as with you it's all a game, I may continue to show up some of your unscriptual nonsense though.

Oooops , another style of saying i dont know

johnw74:


Ok, you dont know or just answer..

Hahahahahahaha I like this guy, your dodging style is epic...

You just made my day, it was one hell of a good laugh...


Sorry abeg, if i had known i wouldn't have decided to place you under some questions, at least it would have averted this embarrassing show..lolzz.

Accept my apology, didnt mean to make you embarrass yourself like this

CAPTIVATOR:
If death is not the cessation of existence , it means humans will continue to exist , an automatic everlasting life, WHY WOULD JESUS CLAIM TO GIVE MAKIND EVERLASTING LIFE THRU HIS DEATH IF ITS SOMETHING ALREADY A PART OF US ? Joh 3:16

Go to John 17v3 to see the definition of eternal life.

John 17v3 -And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Eternal life is not merely living forever; demons will live forever in the lake of fire.

According to Jesus, eternal life is the knowledge of the Father and the Son. The knowledge that makes us one in them. Like when Adam "knew" his wife, Eve.

This life was never automatically a part of us, we receive it only after receiving Christ through faith.

1John 5v10 -And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

This life is only in Jesus, and only those in Jesus have it. It is the life of the true knowledge of the Father and the Son, that makes us one in them. Eternal is not just living forever.

CAPTIVATOR:
I wonder where you and your witch controlled samuel got his messages from , scripture says the TRUE GOD IS NOT SPEAKIN TO SAUL ANYMORE.

It wasn't God speaking to Saul, it was Samuel speaking to Saul. A medium conjured up the spirit of Samuel with the power of the devil.

Read the answer I explained to MzJanet on how so.

CAPTIVATOR:
FALSE PREDICTION:

If he is sent from God, Why would he say philistines will kill saul , whereas saul commits suicide ?

There was no false prediction. According to the scriptures; it was the philistines that killed Saul.

2Samuel 21v12 -And David went and took the bones of Saul and the bones of Jonathan his son from the men of Jabesh-gilead, which had stolen them from the street of Beth-shan, where the Philistines hand hanged them, when the Philistines had slained Saul in Gilboa:

So whether Saul fell on his own sword or not, according to the bible it was the philistines that killed Saul.

So according to the bible, what Samuel told Saul happened. There was no false prediction.

CAPTIVATOR:
Nobody exist before his birth, and death is a CURSE that return all the living to non existence .
" to dust you shall RETURN" Gen 3:19

Did the Spirit of Jesus also cease to exist, during the three days He was dead and buried? Or it was alive and active?

That would answer your question on whether the soul and spirits of the dead cease to exist once the body is dead and buried.

Shalom

MizJanet:


Oooops , another style of saying i dont know

johnydon22:


Hahahahahahaha I like this guy, your dodging style is epic...

You just made my day, it was one hell of a good laugh...

Hahaha it was a good laugh, thank you

Sorry abeg, if i had known i wouldn't have decided to place you under some questions, at least it would have averted this embarrassing show..lolzz.

Accept my apology, didnt mean to make you embarrass yourself like this

No that's quite alright Hahahaha

couldn't be honest if their lives depended on it

it does by the way

ayoku777
Please show me a scripture that says only bodies
have those parts; or that souls and spirits don't have
hands and eyes and tongues like our bodies.
Is God not a spirit? Does God not have eyes and
hands, and mouth? Are angels not spirits? Do angels
not have eyes, hands, mouth etc?
Please show me a scripture that portends that only
our bodies have those parts and not our spirits and
souls. Then you would have made sense. For now
I've not seen any bomb.
It is the souls of the rich man and Lazarus that was in
sheol.

, you now use God as example , despite disallowin it before . hypocrisy

Anyway , the spirit in man and animals IS NOT GOD , AND NEVER LOOK LIKE GOD

" man and the beast have same spirit" ecclesiates 3:19 , so whats that spirit in man and ANimals ?

Pls shorten your long epistles

Listen or read; before Jesus Christ came and took the
keys of death and hell; the devil had the power of
Death and power over sheol.
Rev 1v18 -I am He that liveth, and was dead; and,
Behold am alive for evermore, Amen:
and have they
keys of hades and of death.
Hebrews 2v14 -...that through death He (Jesus) might
destroy him [b]that had the power of death, that is, the
devil;
The devil had the powers of death and over sheol;
and even though he could not raise the dead; he could
Conjur up the spirits of the dead.
Obviously now he does not have the power of death
anymore; that's why the verse said "
had the power of
Death". Jesus now has the keys of death and hell.
So clearly, any medium saying now that he can conjur
up the spirit of dead loved ones is actually conjuring
evil or familiar spirits pretending to be those dead
loved ones.
But it was truly possible before, when the devil still
had the power of death and power over sheol.
So that was indeed the spirit of Samuel the prophet.
And the scriptures equally confirmed it was Samuel
when it said;
And Samuel said to Saul, (1Samuel 28v15)
It didn't say, "and the spirit said to Saul". If the
scripture had said "and the spirit said"; then we can
have an argument over whether it meant the spirit of
Samuel or a familiar spirit pretending to be Samuel.
But the scripture was graciously specific enough to
say
"and SAMUEL said".
This removes all ambiguities and arguments to the
fact that that was the spirit of Samuel the prophet.
Proving that souls stay alive, conscious and animate
after death. It is the body that decays and returns to
dusts and knows nothing anymore after death NOT
THE SOUL.

He has been faking it, and will continue to fake it ,
Nowhere did bible say devil has power over sheol ,

Please and please , that samuel is fake , dont you read the 1st statement preceeding that verse for clarity
.


" now samuel himself has died" 1samuel 28:3

A dead man knows nothings , thats why a livin dog will always be better than a dead lion. Eclesistes 9:4,5 says bible

ayoku777

Jesus Christ also died and was buried. Yet when He
was
"dead and buried" He was busy preaching to the
spirits in prison in sheol.

1Peter 3v18-19 -... being put to death in the flesh, but
quickened by the spirit:
By which also He went and preached unto the spirits
in prison;

So while Jesus was dead He was busy preaching.
How can a dead man be preaching? Which part was
dead? Which part was alive preaching?
This further establishes that the spirit stays alive,
Animate and conscious even after the body is dead
and buried.

Do you still have to be taught greek again?

The greek word rendered "quickened" in that verse means " TO MAKE ALIVE" , " TO MAKE THE DEAD COME ALIVE"

So Jesus was put to DEATH as flesh, and was make ALIVE as a spirit ! He was in the grave for three days and three nights until he was made alive (matt 12:40)



It was after he has been made alive As a spirit that he went to preach to disobedient spirits of the days of that man called noah , those disobedient angels (spirits) - as seen in 2pet 2:4

the more i chat with them , the more i realize how confuse, clueless and brainwashed they are : Jesus DIE for their sin , whereas Jesus didnt die he was busy preaching all the three days . The real Jesus NEVA die he was busy preaching; JESUS HIMSELF NEVER DIE . Only his Flesh Die

MizJanet:
the more i chat with them , the more i realize how confuse, clueless and brainwashed they are : Jesus DIE for their sin , whereas Jesus didnt die he was busy preaching all the three days . The real Jesus NEVA die ; he was preaching ONLY IS FLESH DIE , JESUS HIMSELF NEVER DIE .

seriously , are we in comedy class?

MizJanet:


, you now use God as example , despite disallowin it before . hypocrisy

Anyway , the spirit in man and animals IS NOT GOD , AND NEVER LOOK LIKE GOD

" man and the beast have same spirit" ecclesiates 3:19 , so whats that spirit in man and ANimals ?

HAHAHAHA OMG!!!

Please don't let me embarass myself with laughter where I am in public.

So animals too are made in the image of God just like man?

And animals and man look alike in spirit, the way we "look alike" in body?

Wait! Seriously now; jokes apart *straight face*

Before I waste my time any further.

Are you a believer in Christ's death and resurrection? And do you hold the bible in authority as the word of God?

Because, I'm on NL to edify with the word and be edified by the word. Not to waste my time with gainsayers.

The only reason I've indulged your twist and turnings and gainsaying of the scriptures this far; is because I thought you are a born again christian who believes the bible is the word of God, but just doesn't agree with the mainstream christian doctrine of eternal lake of fire and immortality of the human soul.

Is that the issue here? Or you don't even believe at all that the bible is the word of God?

Because I've learnt from experience that you can't use the bible to establish doctrine and validate truth to someone who doesn't even believe it is the word of God.

One will just continue adding comment upon comment, and pages upon pages to a thread without arriving at any conclusion.

So, are you a believer in Christ's death and resurrection; and in the bible as the word of God?

Because that's what will let me know if this discussion is actually going somewhere, or I'm just wasting my time helping you get your thread to page four or to 200 comments.

Shalom

ayoku777:


HAHAHAHA OMG!!!

Please don't let me embarass myself with laughter where I am in public.

So animals too are made in the image of God just like man?

And [size=26]animals and man look alike in spirit [/size] , the way we "look alike" in body?

Wait! Seriously now; jokes apart *straight face*

Before I waste my time any further.

Are you a believer in Christ's death and resurrection? And do you hold the bible in authority as the word of God?

Because, I'm on NL to edify with the word and be edified by the word. Not to waste my time with gainsayers.

@bold , clearly written in ecclesistes 3:19 ' man and beast have the same spirit [rua'ch]' .