agaugust:


Lies Lies Lies....all those projects are grounded or moving at snail speed
.

Snail speed?

1. A-Darter: Ordered

Conclusion. Paid for and Denel will be delivering the missiles.

2. Badger IFV: Productionm

Conclusion: In production for the army next year of late this year deliveries will commencem

3. Skyshield: Production.

Conclusion: Deliveries will end in 2017.

4. Heavy torpedo: Budgeted for.

Conclusion: Expect a contract very soon to a certain Germany company.

5. BVRAAM(Marlin): Development.

Conclusion: Brazil willing to join the development. Expect a contract when deliveries of the A-Darter commence in Brazil.

6. OPV: In tender.

Conclusion: The process for the companies to submit their proposals will soon be closed.



The only snail speed we are witnessing is the momentum of the mission against BH, since mercinaries left you with fat pockets.

Patchesagain:


So when I said the French Frigates from the same eara have the same system, it was garbage?

No, its a fact

So when I said the French Nuclear Aircraft carrier has the same system, it was garabage?

No, its a fact

So when I said that the Suadi's brand new Frigate operates the same system, it was grabage?

No, it was a fact

And again, the class of a vessel is determined by the navies who operate it... just like Argentina calls their MEKO a destroyer (and you call aradu a frigate), just like Japan calls their carrier a "destroyer", just like Russia calls their carrier a "cruiser", and just like ROKN calls their cruiser a "destroyer".

Long story. You were just doing copy and paste on internet.

You know nothing about sea warfare. Please Sharaaaap !

agaugust:


Long story. You were just doing copy and paste on internet.

You know nothing about sea warfare. Please Sharaaaap !

All facts

Facts you did not know

facts to which you have no response

MikeCZAR:


Snail speed?

1. A-Darter: Ordered

Conclusion. Paid for and Denel will be delivering the missiles.

2. Badger IFV: Productionm

Conclusion: In production for the army next year of late this year deliveries will commencem

3. Skyshield: Production.

Conclusion: Deliveries will end in 2017.

4. Heavy torpedo: Budgeted for.

Conclusion: Expect a contract very soon to a certain Germany company.

5. BVRAAM(Marlin): Development.

Conclusion: Brazil willing to join the development. Expect a contract when deliveries of the A-Darter commence in Brazil.

6. OPV: In tender.

Conclusion: The process for the companies to submit their proposals will soon be closed.



The only snail speed we are witnessing is the momentum of the mission against BH, since mercinaries left you with fat pockets.

1. A-Darter was ordered by Brazil NOT SANDF....same way Mokopa was ordered by Algeria NOT SANDF

Conclusion : No proof of payment to DENEL, so no sales no purchases confirmed

2. Badger IFV, only 5 units out of 234 planned, only 5 units produced in 15 years

Conclusion : No money to build more

3. Skyshield under construction till 2017.

Conclusion : snail slow speed, may be on till 2020

4. Heavy Torpedo, only on paper Budget

Conclusion: no product name, no supplier name, no deal, no money

5. BVRAAM merlin missile.

Conclusion : Project with no date for completion. Brazil NOT signed to be involved. Missile NON-EXISTENT.

6. OPV In tender

Conclusion : Project Biro exists only on paper for almost 18 years, and will always be at paper stage. NO MONEY !

SAAF procurement dreams are a bunch of jokes !
.

Henry120:


And Angola is a democracy with jose?

How long has he been in power?

Dude!! Having one president for a long time has nothing to do with communism, come back when you know the definition of communism.

lezz:
stop that "we" nonsense . you're a half Zulu breed at best.

Oh really? When did we meet?

agaugust:


Dude, learn to leave an argument when you are corrected, trying to argue makes your comments worse.

There is no Umkhonto 60 km range missile on any warship anywhere, it's the 12 km I have told you.

Then nobody has gun with 120 km range on a ship.

Just leave the matter and stop this nonsense. No offence.

With Vulcano rounds the Oto Melara has a max range of 120km with guided projectiles.

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNIT_5-64_LW.htm

The Umkhoto R can easily be converted from Umkhonto IR standard.

Ohh and learn to leave an argument when your corrected.

agaugust:


1. A-Darter was ordered by Brazil NOT SANDF....same way Mokopa was ordered by Algeria NOT SANDF.SAAF order. Which will be followed by Brazilian. Then the production will start in that country
.

Conclusion : No proof of payment to DENEL, so no sales no purchases confirmed

2. Badger IFV, only 5 units out of 234 planned, only 5 units produced in 15 years .Prototypes, production vehicles will be different. In 15 years Nigeria has no standard IFV.

Conclusion : No money to build more

3. Skyshield under construction till 2017.Batteries, training, spare parts
deliveries will be completed in 2017. This what multi-year contracts are about defence want this.

Conclusion : snail slow speed, may be on till 2020

4. Heavy Torpedo, only on paper Budget

Conclusion: no product name, no supplier name, no deal, no money.DM2A4 Heavyweight torpedo. 2015 budget.

5. BVRAAM merlin missile.

Conclusion : Project with no date for completion. Brazil NOT signed to be involved. Missile NON-EXISTENT.
what is "merlin"? Development is continuing. Brazil will join the project. The level of technology Nigeria will not have for the next decade. Scared of the stop gap ram jet powered weapon?

6. OPV In tender

Conclusion : Project Biro exists only on paper for almost 18 years, and will always be at paper stage. NO MONEY !.Proposals will close soon. Then will know which vessels are offered. This year.

SAAF procurement dreams are a bunch of jokes !
.

FIXED!

jln115:

Dude!! Having one president for a long time has nothing to do with communism, come back when you know the definition of communism.

Rwanda is a communist country including Uganda, Zimbabwe, Republic of Congo, Eritrea, Chad, Sudan, Equatorial Guinea and others according to the mor.on Henry.

Patchesagain:


So when I said the French Frigates from the same eara have the same system, it was garbage?

No, its a fact

So when I said the French Nuclear Aircraft carrier has the same system, it was garabage?

No, its a fact

So when I said that the Suadi's brand new Frigate operates the same system, it was grabage?

No, it was a fact

And again, the class of a vessel is determined by the navies who operate it... just like Argentina calls their MEKO a destroyer (and you call aradu a frigate), just like Japan calls their carrier a "destroyer", just like Russia calls their carrier a "cruiser", and just like ROKN calls their cruiser a "destroyer".

theres international standard for grading ships... Ships From 2500 ton to 3500 ton are considered frigates

jln115:

Oh really? When did we meet?

The 5% whites are all about their business, working hard and making sure they have the economic monopoly as bargaining tool to keep your savagery at bay. They own 85% of the economy and are so busy making sure Zulus don't control the economy, they also don't give two hoot about Africa dominance.

Only full Zulu breed or half Zulu breed squats on an African forum bragging about what he doesn't have...... That's you, jilingy

Patchesagain:


Again, this is according to the testimony of a man who lost out to other bidders

Obviously his testimony is going to be critical

this is his opinion and not fact

Most importantly: He is talking about the systems IMS

And not about the COMBAT SUITE

So, show us how the combat suite is obsolete.

go on, keep living in denial, while you sailors sail around in an obsolete ship.

Mr young gave detailed insight on the uselessness of the system SAN got, he was further corroborated by statements made by Armscor and SAN.


242.3 the combat suite architecture based on the Detexis system is essentially a point-to-point system and such a system cannot be described as "modern";

MikeCZAR:


From a source who was roasted at arms deal commission?

Totally fried!

I know you aren't smart, but come on, the facts are very clear. That the SAN got sub-standard Ships with obsolete combat suite is not even up for a debate. It is as clear..... very crystal


[b]244. In the DoD's letter dated 6 May 1999 to Messrs German Frigate Consortium and African Defence Systems (PTY) Ltd entitled Request for Best and Final Commercial Offer: SAN Patrol Corvette -Vessel System provided an Appendix B to the letter entitled Combat Suite Baseline for Vessel Best and Final Offer. This stipulated as follows :


"A hardwired solution is not acceptable to the SAN. Architecture to be as proposed on 07th April 1999."
[DT1-0426.pdf]


245. In the case of the Detexis system, the non-functioning of a particular sub-system's system interface unit will prevent other critical systems from operating (for example, if the tracker system's system interface unit fails, the gun system fails since the tracker system can no longer communicate with the gun system in order to provide it with tracking data).


246. Such a failure of (for example) a system interface unit constitutes a single point of failure within the combat suite which violates one of its fundamental design principles.


247. By contrast, in a "distributed" architecture (such as CCII Systems's IMS) all sub-systems communicate directly with one another and thus the need for system interface units and for communication via the CMS is eliminated.


248. Furthermore, the combat suite based on the Detexis system is dependent on a pair of fore and aft switches with processing intelligence and which link the CMS with all fore and aft systems respectively. If the fore or aft pair of switches fails, all fore or aft systems (as the case may be) would fail.
249. By contrast, in a "distributed"


architecture (such as CCII Systems's IMS) there are no switches. There are pairs of concentrators linking the FDDI databus to clusters of sub-systems. The concentrators do not have and do not require, processing intelligence. If a pair of concentrators fails, only the cluster of sub-systems served by that pair will fail.[/b]

jln115:

Dude!! Having one president for a long time has nothing to do with communism, come back when you know the definition of communism.

does it matter...... what's important is you lost in Angola.


"since Cuba were only involved because SA entered in Angola.
Chester Crooker with the linkage made it sound like the cubans were invasors, the truth MPLA requested their help and Fidel Castro have seem Angola as opportunity to show that Cuba can play on international level, without SA invasion angolan government would never invite cubans to fight.
South Africa were defeated twice in Angola, in 1975 the coalition Zaire/South Africa in Kifangondo by Mpla and cubans one day before the independence and at Kwito Kwanavale in 1988. Cubans had nothing to lose and they was already planning to cross to Namibia that scared the white SAns, till today the white SA still live by propaganda, they failled in all plans they had for Angola.

The involviment of white SA in Angola started in 1966, they was helping the white portuguese with the plan to avoid Angolans independence and make a white minority regime in Angola, to be like Zimbabwe, Namibia and SA and with time to be big confederation of white minority in Southern Africa, that plan failled.
They tried desesperately to avoid MPLA to get the power they failled at Kifangondo battle.
They tried to put Savimbi in power, they failled with that plan.
They tried to avoid Namibian independence they failled with that plan.
SA says they won in Angola, how you will go to conversation table with somebody that you have defeated? In a war a winner impose themselves to the losers and no negociate, if they won as they said they would kick cubans out Angola and not negotiate.
In fact on Cairo summit and on New York summit in december 1988, they didnt want Cuba on negotiation table, Angola impose that Cuba should be there, how they get the balls to say that if they were a loser?

At end of the day Angola/Cuba/Namibia were on the right side of the history, apartheid died, namibians got independence, cubans left Angola with honor and MPLA never lost the power."

Henry120:
the combat suite architecture based on the Detexis system is essentially a point-to-point system and such a system cannot be described as "modern";

this is clear enough. Except some zulu cant read.

Henry120:
does it matter...... what's important is you lost in Angola.


"since Cuba were only involved because SA entered in Angola.
Chester Crooker with the linkage made it sound like the cubans were invasors, the truth MPLA requested their help and Fidel Castro have seem Angola as opportunity to show that Cuba can play on international level, without SA invasion angolan government would never invite cubans to fight.
South Africa were defeated twice in Angola, in 1975 the coalition Zaire/South Africa in Kifangondo by Mpla and cubans one day before the independence and at Kwito Kwanavale in 1988. Cubans had nothing to lose and they was already planning to cross to Namibia that scared the white SAns, till today the white SA still live by propaganda, they failled in all plans they had for Angola.

The involviment of white SA in Angola started in 1966, they was helping the white portuguese with the plan to avoid Angolans independence and make a white minority regime in Angola, to be like Zimbabwe, Namibia and SA and with time to be big confederation of white minority in Southern Africa, that plan failled.
They tried desesperately to avoid MPLA to get the power they failled at Kifangondo battle.
They tried to put Savimbi in power, they failled with that plan.
They tried to avoid Namibian independence they failled with that plan.
SA says they won in Angola, how you will go to conversation table with somebody that you have defeated? In a war a winner impose themselves to the losers and no negociate, if they won as they said they would kick cubans out Angola and not negotiate.
In fact on Cairo summit and on New York summit in december 1988, they didnt want Cuba on negotiation table, Angola impose that Cuba should be there, how they get the balls to say that if they were a loser?

At end of the day Angola/Cuba/Namibia were on the right side of the history, apartheid died, namibians got independence, cubans left Angola with honor and MPLA never lost the power."

WOW!! and you call this a source? Is this from one of @Lezz's forums?

lezz:
The 5% whites are all about their business, working hard and making sure they have the economic monopoly as bargaining tool to keep your savagery at bay. They own 85% of the economy and are so busy making sure Zulus don't control the economy, they also don't give two hoot about Africa dominance.

Only full Zulu breed or half Zulu breed squats on an African forum bragging about what he doesn't have...... That's you, jilingy

So by your reasoning im guessing Nigerians also don't care about their businesses because all of you are bragging on an African Forum about what you don't have!!

And BTW saying im Zulu and not white isn't going to change the fact that in reality I really am white!

jln115:

So by you reasoning im guessing Nigerians also don't care about their businesses because all of you are bragging on an African Forum about what you don't have!!

And BTW saying im Zulu and not white isn't going to change the fact that in reality I really am white!

white south african. Ex dutch the colonist.

lionel4power:
white south african. Ex dutch the colonist.

By that reasoning all South African black are also colonists.

MikeCZAR:



FIXED!

[size=16pt]Stop editing my comments to change my contents, write your own argument and don't edit what I wrote, stop inserting your own opinions and comments under my own name/moniker.

Write your own garbage and attach your own name to it
. [/size]

1. A-Darter was ordered by Brazil NOT SANDF....same way Mokopa was ordered by Algeria NOT SANDF

Conclusion : No proof of payment to DENEL, so no sales no purchases confirmed

2. Badger IFV, only 5 units out of 234 planned, only 5 units produced in 15 years grin grin

Conclusion : No money to build more

3. Skyshield under construction till 2017.

Conclusion : snail slow speed, may be on till 2020

4. Heavy Torpedo, only on paper Budget

Conclusion: no product name, no supplier name, no deal, no money

5. BVRAAM merlin missile.

Conclusion : Project with no date for completion. Brazil NOT signed to be involved. Missile NON-EXISTENT.

6. OPV In tender

Conclusion : Project Biro exists only on paper for almost 18 years, and will always be at paper stage. NO MONEY !

SAAF procurement dreams are a bunch of jokes !
.

jln115:

With Vulcano rounds the Oto Melara has a max range of 120km with guided projectiles.

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNIT_5-64_LW.htm

The Umkhoto R can easily be converted from Umkhonto IR standard.

Ohh and learn to leave an argument when your corrected.

You are talking about guided shells dude, not standard that every navy has.

95% of world navies do not have guided shells.

You need to prove Algeria has guided shells for that 120 km range.

Even the old guns on SAN Valour frigate can fire guided shells to 40 km, a 1977 gun with 1968 origin.

There is no standard shell 120 km range in your source, it says NOTHING like that.

Have you ever seen anybody on this forum talk about a ship with gun range of 120 km ? Even G-6 artillery that has world record is only 73 km range.

You are a white-man with a Zulu brain
.

jln115:

So by your reasoning im guessing Nigerians also don't care about their businesses because all of you are bragging on an African Forum about what you don't have!!

And BTW saying im Zulu and not white isn't going to change the fact that in reality I really am white!

where's your sense? Nigerians are Africans and have been one of the countries championing pan African liberation and freedom since the 60's.

So Africa oneness and liberation has been on the psyche of the average Nigerian. White south Africans on the other hand never saw themselves as Africans and do not participate in a progressive role in Africa except to disrupt progress on the continent.

WHITE SOUTH AFRICANS DO NOT ENVY OR ARE OVER EXCITED ABOUT NIGERIA, ONLY ZULUS ARE.

But I do know of white trash.

agaugust:


There is no 120 km range in your source, it says NOTHING like that.

Have you ever seen anybody on this forum talk about a ship with gun range of 120 km ? Even G-6 artillery that has world record is only 73 km range.

You are a white-man with a Zulu brain
.

I have been thinking the same. That's why I call him half bred Zulu.

jln115:

WOW!! and you call this a source? Is this from one of @Lezz's forums?

he just hit you with the truth.

agaugust:


1. A-Darter was ordered by Brazil NOT SANDF....same way Mokopa was ordered by Algeria NOT SANDF

Conclusion : No proof of payment to DENEL, so no sales no purchases confirmed

2. Badger IFV, only 5 units out of 234 planned, only 5 units produced in 15 years

Conclusion : No money to build more

3. Skyshield under construction till 2017.

Conclusion : snail slow speed, may be on till 2020

4. Heavy Torpedo, only on paper Budget

Conclusion: no product name, no supplier name, no deal, no money

5. BVRAAM merlin missile.

Conclusion : Project with no date for completion. Brazil NOT signed to be involved. Missile NON-EXISTENT.

6. OPV In tender

Conclusion : Project Biro exists only on paper for almost 18 years, and will always be at paper stage. NO MONEY !

SAAF procurement dreams are a bunch of jokes !
.

What is this bullshit you have typed out?

I am all for honest debate

But to post these lies?

lionel4power:
theres international standard for grading ships... Ships From 2500 ton to 3500 ton are considered frigates

FREMM comes in at 6000-6900 tonnes

Henry120:
go on, keep living in denial, while you sailors sail around in an obsolete ship.

Mr young gave detailed insight on the uselessness of the system SAN got, he was further corroborated by statements made by Armscor and SAN.


242.3 the combat suite architecture based on the Detexis system is essentially a point-to-point system and such a system cannot be described as "modern";

Mr Young is a business man who is emotional because his companies product got turned down for anothers - and it his opinion, which is biased

Are you saying that mister young is right.... And all the Admirals of the French, South African and Saudi navies are wrong?

Henry120:


I know you aren't smart, but come on, the facts are very clear. That the SAN got sub-standard Ships with obsolete combat suite is not even up for a debate. It is as clear..... very crystal


[b]244. In the DoD's letter dated 6 May 1999 to Messrs German Frigate Consortium and African Defence Systems (PTY) Ltd entitled Request for Best and Final Commercial Offer: SAN Patrol Corvette -Vessel System provided an Appendix B to the letter entitled Combat Suite Baseline for Vessel Best and Final Offer. This stipulated as follows :


"A hardwired solution is not acceptable to the SAN. Architecture to be as proposed on 07th April 1999."
[DT1-0426.pdf]


245. In the case of the Detexis system, the non-functioning of a particular sub-system's system interface unit will prevent other critical systems from operating (for example, if the tracker system's system interface unit fails, the gun system fails since the tracker system can no longer communicate with the gun system in order to provide it with tracking data).


246. Such a failure of (for example) a system interface unit constitutes a single point of failure within the combat suite which violates one of its fundamental design principles.


247. By contrast, in a "distributed" architecture (such as CCII Systems's IMS) all sub-systems communicate directly with one another and thus the need for system interface units and for communication via the CMS is eliminated.


248. Furthermore, the combat suite based on the Detexis system is dependent on a pair of fore and aft switches with processing intelligence and which link the CMS with all fore and aft systems respectively. If the fore or aft pair of switches fails, all fore or aft systems (as the case may be) would fail.
249. By contrast, in a "distributed"


architecture (such as CCII Systems's IMS) there are no switches. There are pairs of concentrators linking the FDDI databus to clusters of sub-systems. The concentrators do not have and do not require, processing intelligence. If a pair of concentrators fails, only the cluster of sub-systems served by that pair will fail.[/b]

Again

You are posting the opinion of one man who's systems were turned bown for another

He will only discuss the cons of the system as apposed to the pros

Are youbsaying all the Admirals of the South African, French and Saudi navies are Id.iots?

Also, Mr Young got destroyed on the stand - I can post the transcripts if you want

lezz:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-11429067http://worldpremiereentertainment..com/2009/12/its-not-longer-new-thing-that-nigeria.html?m=1

Only south Africans have issues with Nigeria's influence.

wait.! you gonna call it jealousy right?

Patchesagain:


Mr Young is a business man who is emotional because his companies product got turned down for anothers - and it his opinion, which is biased

Are you saying that mister young is right.... And all the Admirals of the French, South African and Saudi navies are wrong?

Provide technical proof to show that Mr Young is wrong, and you are right. He provided sound evidence, and not this emotional post you are throwing around.


The fact is clear, South-African Valour Frigates are obsolete , Sub-standard and run on an archaic combat suite far below the requirements of the South-African Navy.

Patchesagain:


Again

You are posting the opinion of one man who's systems were turned bown for another

He will only discuss the cons of the system as apposed to the pros

Are youbsaying all the Admirals of the South African, French and Saudi navies are Id.iots?

Also, Mr Young got destroyed on the stand - I can post the transcripts if you want

Boy, this aren't an opinion. They are hard facts!

Patchesagain:


What is this bullshit you have typed out?

I am all for honest debate

But to post these lies?

He posted no lies. Stop been emotional!