UyiIredia:


No elaborations. I'm arguing for God as generally understood: the Creator of all reality.




So you believe that consciousness can survive death. I don't know any atheist that holds that belief. Are you an atheist ?



I don't listen to quantum physics mumbo-jumbo. The universe is no illusion. It's real and exists whether or not we know it when we're unconscious.




Your arguments here have failed to show that this is true.

UyiIredia:
No, you aren't.

So, what accounts for the universe existence. Itself ? Or God ?

Actually a lawless universe cannot possibly look like ours. It's taking any form means it won't adhere to a given configuration or set of laws as our universe does.

Actually, codes are laws themselves. They are rules which determine how a given physical system can represent another. For example the word 'water' representing a given thing.

How can that be possible when consciousness is immaterial ?

UyiIredia:


What makes codes special is the fact that they represent something else, not their order. Why doesn't it make sense of a conscious God to have caused conscious beings ?

UyiIredia:
I made the same arguments on another site and couldn't convince atheists there. Maybe I'll have better luck here . . . OR NOT !

1) The existence of the universe demands an explanation. The order of the physical universe which ensures it adheres to laws which can be inferred suggests an intelligence behind the universe.

2) The genetic code in living organisms precludes the possibility they arose naturally. Natural processes CAN'T give rise to codes which don't follow natural laws. As humans, we know that codes are always made by conscious effort so the presence of codes in living things is grounds to infer that God exists.

3) Consciousness in man is not explainable by materialistic means. Emergence can't explain consciousness since typically it deals with new physical properties that arise due to complex interactions. But the consciousness isn't physical and so can't be explained by purely material means moreso since physical things lack consciousness. This is good grounds to believe that a God that effects consciousness exists.

MrAnony1:


Dear Uyi,

The fact of God is as obvious as reality itself. Interestingly what I have never heard are reason's to doubt God's existence. It is wearisome to argue with people who have no reasons for their positions but would rather argue for the sake of arguing and not for the sake of arriving at truth.

plaetton:

Reasons to doubt god's existence?

1. Never been seen with a naked eye.

2. Never been heard from.

3. Never been seen in a microscope nor a telescope.

4. Never observed or measured any gravitational perturbations in any planetary body that can be attributable to a supernatural entity.

plaetton:
Lol.
Here you come again.

The issue here, Anony1, in case you have quickly forgotten, is Doubting gods existence, not proving it.

All my four points, added together, provide great DOUBTS about the existence of what is supposed to have been a self-evident, omnipresent, omnipotent and all- pervasive entity that affects every single entity and activity in the universe.
Do you understand that point?

We don't debate the existence of gravity, x-rays and gamma rays even though we cant see, hear, and neither see them in microscopes nor telescopes . Do we?
I wonder why.

We can debate whether quarks, tachions, anti-matter, dark-matter, glueons and higgs-boson particles really exists or are just theoretical extrapolations. We can use all sorts of instrumentations to search and test for these, and even if dont capture or isolate these evasive enigmatic subatomic particles, we can see and measure their footprints, trails, or residues.
Can the same be said of god.?

Kay17:
MrAnony1, HOW DO YOU FIND A METAPHYSICAL BEING?!

MrAnony1:


Dear Uyi,

The fact of God is as obvious as reality itself. Interestingly what I have never heard are reason's to doubt God's existence. It is wearisome to argue with people who have no reasons for their positions but would rather argue for the sake of arguing and not for the sake of arriving at truth.

MrAnony1:

I don't understand your question. The very nature of being is metaphysical. What exactly are you asking me?

MrAnony1:

I don't understand your question. The very nature of being is metaphysical. What exactly are you asking me?

DeepSight:


GBAM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DeepSight:

Plaetton - - - - I say this very carefully, and please listen to it very carefully. I do not mean to insult you, so please take no insult.
What an old man sees sitting down, a young man cannot see standing on top of a tree.

Anony is younger than you - much younger actually - and the words he has spoken above deal such a devastating blow to your perception of anything, and show up your mind to be incredibly little and ungrown. Even unschooled.

However as I said, I do not mean to insult you, so I will not go any further.
I just hope that one day, in your old age, you will come back to see the wisdom in the few words this young man has said above.

And I know that you will kick yourself for it.
But it will take time.

Just calm down.

One day soon, you will get it.
It's simple.

DeepSight:

Plaetton - - - - I say this very carefully, and please listen to it very carefully. I do not mean to insult you, so please take no insult.
What an old man sees sitting down, a young man cannot see standing on top of a tree.

Anony is younger than you - much younger actually - and the words he has spoken above deal such a devastating blow to your perception of anything, and show up your mind to be incredibly little and ungrown. Even unschooled.

However as I said, I do not mean to insult you, so I will not go any further.
I just hope that one day, in your old age, you will come back to see the wisdom in the few words this young man has said above.

And I know that you will kick yourself for it.
But it will take time.

Just calm down.

One day soon, you will get it.
It's simple.

MrAnony1:


Dear Uyi,

The fact of God is as obvious as reality itself.

MrAnony1:

This statement doesn't make any sense at all. Unless the reason you doubt God's existence is NOT because you can't find proof acceptable to you. If not, then they are the exactly the same issue.


I do. Do you?


I see, so the same things that provide "great doubts" for you when it comes to the existence of God now suddenly don't provide any doubts at all for the existence of gamma rays, x-rays, gravity e.t.c. I wonder why.


Yes the same can be said for God. And these "footprints" have been pointed out by Uyi in the OP. So why do you still doubt?

So far, you haven't given me any reason to doubt God. It seems to me that judging from all the other things you believe in without doubt, you don't have any reason to doubt God either but are merely suppressing your belief in God.

DeepSight:


My dear brother. You have no idea how delighted I am to see you here again. How have you been?
You are truly wise beyond your years, you are a lesson to much older men, you are a beauty of God, and a truly special mind.

UyiIredia:


No elaborations. I'm arguing for God as generally understood: the Creator of all reality.


So you believe that consciousness can survive death. I don't know any atheist that holds that belief. Are you an atheist ?


I don't listen to quantum physics mumbo-jumbo. The universe is no illusion. It's real and exists whether or not we know it when we're unconscious.

Your arguments here have failed to show that this is true.

plaetton:


Within this post lies a most profound fact that I ignored the first time I read.
This self evident fact exposes sooo much, contradicts and mocks every word and posts of the op as well as shaming the unthinking few who are cheerleading him to intellectual perdition.

In my usually generousity, I will allow the op to reread this post, and decide if he would like to erase everything written on this thread.

DeepSight:


Point it out.
I challenge you to do so.

Lets see who is talking nonsense.
Go ahead.

No hiding, no ducking, no running.
Just point it out.

plaetton:


Lol.
Not yet.
Let me give you all a little more time to use your intellect.
Spot the BOO BOO.

DeepSight:


It really shows you up for the little man you are.

plaetton:




Them are Fighting words, wordy sire.

Is that the best we can do today?

DeepSight:


Look i am tired of this shameful cowardice, this disgusting ducking and hiding.

Point it out, or just leave it.
Goodnight.

plaetton:


Lol.
Who is this?
The Master of the Creating Word, or a bottle of Whiskey?

Mock Mock ! anybody home?

Will the real Deoardo pls come out.

Kay17:


Reality beyond our experience and our capability.

plaetton:

Anony1, Deepsight.
Circular arguments make me dizzy.
Lets try something different.
Anony1, you used the word God at least 6 times in your post above.
Now, pls kindly substitute the word God with the word Toothfairy, and lets see how similar, different, Truer, wiser or otherwise your most brilliant post appears to Deepsight.
Pls try it.
You get my gist?
Thank you .

plaetton:

BOO HOO.

You contradict yourself sir.
You are on record on this very forum, as stating that it believing in God and in the bible is a matter of faith, and that this is what you have :Faith.

Kindly Google the definition of faith.

When faith interfaces with reality, the consequences have often been dissasterous.

That is why we are having this argument.