CAPTIVATOR:


Wow ! See twisting , fall into the hands doesnt mean philistines will kill Saul .

WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE GIVEN INTO THE HANDS OF ANOTHER:

" Siserah will fall into the hand of a woman" 1sam 4:9 simply means a woman will KILL HIM DEAD ( 1SAM 4:21)

ayoku777:


Please please.

To be delivered into someone's hands does not mean to kill the person. It means to subdue, to overpower, or to overcome. It doesn't mean to kill

Genesis 16v6 -But Abram said unto Sarai, Behold, thy maid is in thy hand; do to her as it pleaseth thee.

Daniel 1v2 -And the Lord gave Jehoiakim king of Judah into his (Nebuchadnezzar's) hand, with part of the vessels of the house of God: which he carried into Shinar to the house of his god.


Nebuchadnezzar did not kill Jehoiakim.

MizJanet:
you push his own bible aside and present yours, hilarious xtians

MizJanet:
Dont just google and paste , the above context is not of WAR.

MizJanet:
@bold , according to Jewish Historian named Josephus Nebuchadnezzar killed Jehoiakim and throw his corpse over the walls of Jerusalem. And that goes parallel with Jeremiah 22: 18,19 that Jehoiakim will be buried like an he - ass and his corpse will be thrown out of Jerusalem walls.

ayoku777:


I don't push his own bible aside, I correct his interpretation. There's a difference.



Exactly the point I was trying to make.

That the expression "delivered into someone's hands" does not necessarily always mean "to kill". It is a general term meaning "to subdue or be subject to".

It can be used in the normal context it was used by Abraham. Trying to make it always mean "to kill" is a very wrong interpretation.

And that's the correction I made there.

Josephus is a wonderful historian, but he is not an authority in doctrine.

According to scripture; Nebuchadnezzar did not kill Jehoiakim.

2Chronicles 36v6 -And against him (Jehoiakim) came up Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, and bound him in fetters, to carry him to Babylon.

Nebuchadnezzar carried Jehoiakim captive to Babylon as a prisoner of war. And he died there. But Nebuchadnezzar did not kill him.

Jeremiah 22v18-19 -Therefore thus saith the Lord concerning Jehoiakim.... He shall be buried with the burial of an ass, drawn and cast forth beyond the gates of Jerusalem.

This verse talked about how and where he shall be buried. Meaning he was buried like an animal, beyond the gates of Jerusalem He was not buried like a king or in the burying place of the kings like his fathers.

But Nebuchadnezzer didn't kill him. And this verse didn't say so either.

Let's not digress though.

The point being addressed is, Does being "delivered into someone's hands" always mean to be killed by someone?

And the scripture shows clearly that that is not so; infact it can be used in a context that has no bloodshed at all.

That's what I'm showing here

MizJanet:
I think the guy is speaking with reference to War

MizJanet:
I Know You Wont agree with Josephus , Until I Show you how ridiculous your claims are.

, No part of your religious book say so.

MizJanet:
Really? Whats wrong with you and your edited religious book, he was captive to babylon and died there , yet jehoakim died in Judah

"then Jehoakim was laid to Rest with his forefathers' 1king 24:2, 6

Mayb his forefathers were laid in babylon

Drink this hot tea , Jehoakim was buried in Judah (2kings 24:6 .

MizJanet:
Dont digress: what lead to this is whether Saul was killed by philistines or not, which may mean the other guy is using that phrase with reference to war not general usage.

MizJanet:
Back to you : i said the story of saul at endor prove that other religions that practice speaking with the dead is good, you said "no, devil dont hav power to bring death anymore",

MizJanet:
So who is presently responsible for the death brought on humans everyday, since devil cant cause death anymore?

MizJanet:
Why do people still die , if truly ur jesus have bring the power of death to nothing ?

ayoku777:


Whether it is used in reference to war or not; to be "delivered into someone's hand" does not necessarily mean to "kill".

Reference or context is immaterial here.



So we should say or assume Nebuchadnezzar killed Jehoiakim, even though the scripture never said so?

And what do you mean that the bible didn't say Nebuchadnezzar didn't kill him?

Scripture said he bound him in fetters. Do you kill people and then bind them in fetters?



Show me where this exact phrase was used in scripture? That Jehoiakim was "laid to rest with his forefathers."

What my own bible said was that, Jehoiakim "slept with his fathers"

And that expression doesn't always mean they were buried in the same place.



Reference to war or general usage does not change the definition of "being in someone's hands" to mean "to kill".

You may or may not kill someone that is "delivered into your hands". Yet if you overpower or subdue a person in any sense, he or she has still been "delivered into your hands."

It doesn't always mean to kill, even in the context of war. It can mean to take captive, like in the case Jehoiakim.

The fact that the Philistines didn't literally kill Saul doesn't mean he still wasn't delivered into their hands as Samuel predicted. They subdued him, didn't they?



Necromancy (conjuring spirits) is wrong. It was wrong in the old testament days and it is still wrong now. But it was indeed truly possible then when the devil had the power of death.

Now I believe it's a lie if any medium still claims they can conjur real spirits of the dead. The devil no longer commands such authority.



Having the power of death does not mean having the power to cause death or to kill. God, men, angels, the devil could kill.

The wages of sin is still death; that hasn't changed.

I believe having the power of death means having the keys of death and of hades. It means to be in possession or control of the souls of the dead.



The same reason people still sin even though Jesus has shed his blood for the sin of the world.

And the same reason people still fall sick even though Jesus has borne stripes for our healing.

Figure that out and you will answer your own question.

Shalom

Mellin:
wages of sin is still death. Meaning you r a sinner so as every other person on earth and we all will die.... Use ur God given brain.

ayoku777:


Whether it is used in reference to war or not; to be "delivered into someone's hand" does not necessarily mean to "kill".

Reference or context is immaterial here.



So we should say or assume Nebuchadnezzar killed Jehoiakim, even though the scripture never said so?

And what do you mean that the bible didn't say Nebuchadnezzar didn't kill him?

Scripture said he bound him in fetters. Do you kill people and then bind them in fetters?



Show me where this exact phrase was used in scripture? That Jehoiakim was "laid to rest with his forefathers."

What my own bible said was that, Jehoiakim "slept with his fathers"

And that expression doesn't always mean they were buried in the same place.



Reference to war or general usage does not change the definition of "being in someone's hands" to mean "to kill".

You may or may not kill someone that is "delivered into your hands". Yet if you overpower or subdue a person in any sense, he or she has still been "delivered into your hands."

It doesn't always mean to kill, even in the context of war. It can mean to take captive, like in the case Jehoiakim.

The fact that the Philistines didn't literally kill Saul doesn't mean he still wasn't delivered into their hands as Samuel predicted. They subdued him, didn't they?

Necromancy (conjuring spirits) is wrong. It was wrong in the old testament days and it is still wrong now. But it was indeed truly possible then when the devil had the power of death.

Now I believe it's a lie if any medium still claims they can conjur real spirits of the dead. The devil no longer commands such authority.



Having the power of death does not mean having the power to cause death or to kill. God, men, angels, the devil could kill.

The wages of sin is still death; that hasn't changed.

I believe having the power of death means having the keys of death and of hades. It means to be in possession or control of the souls of the dead.

JESUS DIDNT DIE , ONLY HIS FLESH DIES

The same reason people still sin even though Jesus has shed his blood for the sin of the world.

And the same reason people still fall sick even though Jesus has borne stripes for our healing.

Figure that out and you will answer your own question.

Shalom

MizJanet:
Of course, nobody said they were buried in the same grave.

1king 24:6 , was laid to rest with his fathers simply mean he was buried alongside his fathers, so where are his fathers starting from David laid to sleep ? Judah or Babylon

I thought your book said the dead are not alive - isaiah 26:14

Hey , So it was an ordinary case that the isreaites bury as samuel , while the real Samuel lives on , the real Samuel is alive, never died. That simply means the real Jesus didnt die , only his cover dies. Uv been scammed

JESUS DIDNT DIE , ONLY HIS FLESH DIES

Lols , his death cant stop sin , death and sickness ? hope you know he himself didnt die , only his flesh died.

ayoku777:


This thread is way past its bedtime. Let's tuck it in please. We are back to where we left off in page three.

MizJanet:


Just another way to avoid that question, start using your commonsense , Did Jesus Die OR its only his flesh that died ? Even your brain knows any attempt at you answering the question will blow your religious myths in a seconds .

ayoku777:

What is death?

MizJanet:

An intelligent being dont answer question with a question.

ayoku777:


I'm using the questions to guide you to the answer to your own questions.

I've noticed that some people will never accept any explanation you give them; but if you guide their thought, they may see the answer to their own question or atleast the folly of their question.

You asked that; Did Jesus himself die or it was only his flesh that died? That if only it was His flesh that died, then it means the real Jesus did not die for us, just his flesh.

Like Jesus said to the Sadducees, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, (Matthew 22v29).

You don't understand the concept who Jesus is, that's why.

Jesus (Yahshua) is different from "the Word of God". The Word of God is spirit, while Jesus is the "Word made flesh" (John 1v14).

If Jesus was put to death in the flesh (1Peter 3v18), then it means JESUS DIED, even though His spirit was still alive preaching to them that are dead, (1Peter 4v6).

Let me attempt to put it in a way you may understand;

Salt (Sodium Chloride) = Na + Cl

If you remove or "kill" the Chlorine; do you still have salt? Ofcourse not!

When you "killed" the chlorine, "SALT DIED"

But do we still have the Sodium (Na)? Ofcourse yes! The Sodium is still "alive" and kicking with all its electrons and protons bouncing.

Jesus (The son of man) = Word (spirit) + Flesh (body)

When Jesus was put to death in the flesh; Jesus, the son of man died. But His Spirit was alive, animate and conscious in sheol; preaching to them that are dead (1Peter 4v6)

So asking if Jesus died or only His flesh died; is like asking "When I removed the chlorine, did the salt remove or only the chlorine".

You don't understand the concept of who Yahshua is. Yahshua is the Word made flesh; without flesh He is the Word.

So when Jesus was put to death in the flesh, Jesus died.

So yes, Jesus died for our sins; and He rose for our justification.

Shalom.

MizJanet:
Let me show you how stupid your illustration is.

In the case of Salt , Sodium combines with chlorine , Sodium DID NOT became chlorine.

* as for JESUS, the word didnt combine with flesh RATHER/CONTRARILY " the word BECAME Flesh" john 1:14 he became flesh, 100% " Human" PHILIPIAN 2:6

Kenneth4u205:
1 Corinthians 15:35-54 New King James
Version (NKJV)
A Glorious Body
35 But someone will say, “How are the
dead raised up? And with what body do
they come?” 36 Foolish one, what you
sow is not made alive unless it dies. 37
And what you sow, you do not sow that
body that shall be, but mere grain—
perhaps wheat or some other grain. 38
But God gives it a body as He pleases,
and to each seed its own body.
39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but
there is one kind of flesh[ a ] of men,
another flesh of animals, another of fish,
and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies and
terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the
celestial is one, and the glory of the
terrestrial is another. 41 There is one
glory of the sun, another glory of the
moon, and another glory of the stars; for
one star differs from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead.
The body is sown in corruption, it is
raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in
dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in
weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is
sown a natural body, it is raised a
spiritual body. There is a natural body,
and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it
is written, “The first man Adam became a
living being.”[ b ] The last Adam became a
life-giving spirit.
46 However, the spiritual is not first, but
the natural, and afterward the spiritual.
47 The first man was of the earth, made
of dust; the second Man is the Lord[ c ]
from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust,
so also are those who are made of dust;
and as is the heavenly Man, so also are
those who are heavenly. 49 And as we
have borne the image of the man of dust,
we shall also bear[ d ] the image of the
heavenly Man.
Our Final Victory
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and
blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God;
nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall
not all sleep, but we shall all be changed
— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an
eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet
will sound, and the dead will be raised
incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on
incorruption, and this mortal must put on
immortality. 54 So when this corruptible
has put on incorruption, and this mortal
has put on immortality, then shall be
brought to pass the saying that is written:
“Death is swallowed up in victory.”[ e ]

ayoku777:


There is no human being or son of man, that is not spirit, soul and body.

1Thess 5v23 -...I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Word of God being "made flesh" doesn't mean he didn't have have his spirit and soul with the flesh.

No human being is only flesh. A man is spirit, soul and body.

And Jesus had spirit and soul and body too.

John 23v46 -And when Jesus has cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend MY SPIRIT: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Yahshua has spirit.

Matthew 26v38 -Then saith he unto them, MY SOUL is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.

Yahshua has soul

The "Word made flesh" (Yahshua) has spirit, soul and body like every son of man. You can't be a son of man without spirit, soul and body.

Get it?

MizJanet:


O boy, you have digress from the question ,

From the stuff you wrote above :
** what is that spirit that Jesus entrust into his Father's hand ?

** what is soul ?

** what is body ?


The moment you answer this, we will know if the real person of Jesus really died .

*

ayoku777:


Stop asking questions like a two year old.

You asked to know if Jesus had spirit; I showed in the bible that he does.

Now you ask what is spirit? What is soul? What is body?

The soul and spirit is not defined fully in scripture but by application and usage in scripture, they are the core parts of what makes up a man.

Man = spirit + soul + body

Separate them and you no longer have "a man". You have a spirit and a corpse.

A soul and spirit without the body is not a human being or a son of man. And a body without the soul and spirit is a corpse.

So spirit, soul and body is what makes us a human being or a son of man. Separate them and you have a spirit or a corpse.

Word became flesh (Yahshua). A human being or a son of man (spirit, soul and body).

When the body died, it meant Yahshua the son of man died; and he became a spirit. By which he went to preach to the dead.

Honestly; I'm tired. I'm a very patient person; and I can indulge people for the sake of reaching out to them.

But I'm seriously tired. And I know I've tried.

Have a blessed week

MizJanet:


Those are fundamental questions that will expose the can of worms in churchianity , THANKFULLY you have just create another problem for your fellow church man and woman

** according to luke 23:46 which you quote , Jesus spirit was enthrust into the hands of his father in heaven . Which means ,He has a spirit go to heaven the same day while only his body died . Unless you want to tell me his father is not in heaven , why did your bible still went ahead to say Jesus didnt go to heaven until 40 days after his resurection when he had already commited his spirit part to heaven earlier ?

RELIGION IS A FRAUD .

ayoku777:


That's shocking. You that knows how to call everything "symbolic" suddenly has only a literal interpretation for this verse.


Jesus commending his spirit into the hands of his Father doesn't have to mean He went to heaven that night?



If I'm going on a journey and I commit my journey, my car and my life into God's hands; does that mean I plan to go to heaven that day?

Ofcourse not; the expression means for God to be with me, watch over me and protect me on this journey.

Jesus was about to die, and His spirit would descend into sheol; and he was commending His spirit into His Father's hand. For the Father to watch over him in sheol and be with Him and not leave His soul in sheol (Psalm 16v10)

Its clear that Jesus did not ascend into heaven until after He rose. His spirit descended first.

John 20v17 -Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father:

Ephesians 4v9 -Now that he ascended, what is it but that He also descended FIRST into the lower parts of the earth?

Jesus commending His spirit into the hands of the Father is for the Father to be with Him and not leave His soul in sheol.

Bye and God bless.

MizJanet:
Strollin along some of the threads , I saw someone quote this bible verse . Pls lets use our brain here .
______________

" fear him who can destroy both soul and BODY in hell' matt 10:28 .

The question that arise is : do BODY go to hell ? , BODY go to where ? Hell or grave . I thought body is placed in the grave or religion is clueless ?

Crispels:



I actually do think a supreme being(God) may exist. I however don't believe in religion, esp. Christianity and Islam. Its scam

MizJanet:


You are really derailin this thread . TWO THINGS HAVE BEEN CONFIRMED

1. The use of hell in your bible in matt 10:28 is forgery , which u testify to as true forgery leading you to digging out the greek words . You wont have done this if the english is NOT edited

2. Even when you dig out the greek , you FINALLY testify that it symbolize destruction. And everyone knows when something is destroyed, it comes to an end CONTRARY to the never ending life in hell garbage shouted at the pulpit . Thanks .


Signed: mizjanet ,

MizJanet:
Infact , the part that indicate the cluelessness of religion was dat ayoku777 or whats his name dat said ' when people die , they go to first hell AND after a while , those burning in first hell will be resurected with a new body ; lols and after workin so much to give them a new body , they ar then transferred to another hell.

How will a lovin God create 2 hells ?

MizJanet:
This people are so clueles , their god has a heart yet he doesnt have blood , whats the work of the heart if not to pumb blood .

Pls, God have a soul o, " My soul" isaiah 42:1 , does it mean another entity is livin inside ur god ?

malvisguy212:
first, our body we have here on earth is different from the one in heaven or hell.
secondly, there will be NO death in hell even the worm do not die, meaning hell is different from the earth.
This are the punishments in hell;
smoke of their torment
no rest day and night
weeping and gnashing of teeth
tormented

Their worm does not die
destruction

Are you guys clueless , notice the bold ... So ur mythical immaterial and spiritual looking soul actually decays and produce worms too ?

Glaring contradiction , even yourself dont understand what you quote

Now pay close attention to this book of Daniel:
Daniel 12:1–2
The Time of the End
12 “At that time shall arise Michael, the
Great prince who has charge of your
people. And there shall be a time of
trouble, such as never has been since
There was a nation till that time. But at
that time your people shall be delivered,
everyone whose name shall be found
written in the book. 2 And many of those
Who sleep in the dust of the earth
Shall awake , some to everlasting life,
and some to shame and everlasting
contempt.

Now read verse two again, it say many of those who SLEEP IN THE DUST OF THE EARTH WILL BE AWAKE, what does it mean? They are ressurected with a new body both believers and unbelievers and it was AFTER this judgment they will be sent to hell. I hope this answer your question?