Henry120:
[b]Withdraw ‘uncosted’ Defence Review, DA urges
BY WYNDHAM HARTLEY, 05 JUNE 2015, 07:04

inShare
Kindle

 Clip this article

A police inspector holds up the South African flag outside the Gauteng legislature. Picture: THE TIMES
Related articles






National Assembly delays revitalisation of defence force, says minister
Defence department mulls riot squad
A crisis too big to contemplate
DA says defence committee ‘failing in duty’ to hold minister to account
In this article
Companies and organisations: Inkatha Freedom Party | Freedom Front Plus | Democratic Alliance
People: Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula



LAST year’s Defence Review, which concluded that the South African National Defence Force was in decline and would take years to reverse, should be withdrawn because it had not been costed, Democratic Alliance (DA) MP David Maynier said on Thursday.

Speaking in the National Assembly during a debate on the Defence Review, Mr Maynier also accused the joint standing committee on defence of failing to give the review report the attention it deserved, holding only a handful of meetings in almost a year.

The review came to the conclusion that the military was in a critical state of decline and lacked core capabilities.

Committee chairman Stanley Motimele introduced the report on Thursday and called for its approval.

Mr Maynier said: "We have a constitutional responsibility to consider the financial implications of policy documents in Parliament.

"We propose the minister (Defence Minister Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula) withdraws the Defence Review from Parliament, and within a period of not more than six months commissions an independent audit of the cost estimates used in the review."

Freedom Front Plus MP Pieter Groenewald said it did not make sense to consider buying more weapons when those already bought could not be operated because of a lack of funding.

Inkatha Freedom Party MP Albert Mncwango said it was clear more funding was needed for the defence force, but not at the expense of other priorities.

The National Assembly approved the report on the Defence Review.[/b]

As if that's gonna happen!


The defence review isn't about acquiring weapons only.

jln115:

Jap shot out of the 127/54, when fired out of the 127/64 it has a range of 120km

Manufacturer says 100 km maximum. Any other source must bow down to manufacturers technical specifications as final authority.

Show me 120 km from the technical specs as declared by the product manufacturer!
.

MikeCZAR:
120km range!

A guided shell is not a rocket or missile albeit it has rocket motor.

It's a hybrid, it has a rocket and guidance systems, it's a PGM and it's range is NOT relevant to a discussion about standard shell gun ranges. Learn to argue within context.

We are talking about naval guns standard shell, not PGMs....fool

Meanwhile, manufacturers technical data says maximum range for the guided version is 100 km NOT 120 km.

Learn to use reliable sources, not websites like the one that says South Africa has super rapid gun when your navy says big NO !

Odenson

agaugust:


Manufacturer says 100 km maximum. Any other source must bow down to manufacturers technical specifications as final authority.

Show me 120 km from the technical specs as declared by the product manufacturer!
.

Hahaha dude it doesnt even matter if its 100 or 120km...The fact is you never knew there were navel shells that could reach these distances.

And you call yourself a military researcher!! Yet the biggest irony is the fact that you do no research whatsoever.

MikeCZAR:
BH!

That's a hint.

BH-Big Head. Yeah Jacob Zuma's head is quite big. Thanks for clarifying.

agaugust:


It's a hybrid, it has a rocket and guidance systems, it's a PGM and it's range is NOT relevant to a discussion about standard shell gun ranges. Learn to argue within context.

We are talking about naval guns standard shell, not PGMs....fool

Meanwhile, manufacturers technical data says maximum range for the guided version is 100 km NOT 120 km.

Learn to use reliable sources, not websites like the one that says South Africa has super rapid gun when your navy says big NO !

Odenson

Shell!

Enables naval guns to reach further.

And yes naval guns touch targets 120km away!

lionel4power:
BH-Big Head. Yeah Jacob Zuma's head is quite big. Thanks for clarifying.

Wrong.

Boko Haram.

Terrorism.

G7.

Discussed.

Nigeria.


New clues! Try again my student.

Henry120:
BY WYNDHAM HARTLEY, 05 JUNE 2015, 07:04

+
*
+

National Assembly delays revitalisation of defence force, says minister

*
+
+
A crisis too big to contemplate <= i agree totally

+
*
+

DA says defence committee ‘failing in duty’ to hold minister to account
*
*
*
*

LAST year’s Defence Review, which concluded that the South African National Defence Force was in decline and would take years to reverse,
*
*
*
The review came to the conclusion that the military was in a critical state of decline and lacked core capabilities.
*
*
*
Freedom Front Plus MP Pieter Groenewald said it did not make sense to consider buying more weapons when those already bought could not be operated because of a lack of funding.

+
+
+

Inkatha Freedom Party MP Albert Mncwango said it was clear more funding was needed for the defence force, but not at the expense of other priorities.

The National Assembly approved the report on the Defence Review.

this are the most important points of the article.

lionel4power:


this are the most important points of the article.

Defence Reveiw is not about new weapons.

It is mainly about securing more funding (allmost doubling the budget)

Then its about re-organizing the defence-force's structure so that it is suited for the roles we now use it in (Which have changed dramatically since the 1998 Defence Reveiw - hence the strain on the defence force)

Only in the long term is it about new equipment.


What you dont understand is that the current SANDF is designed and funded according to the 98 Reveiw, with no provision made for patroling foreign waters (which we now do), with provision for only one Battalion deployed internally (we now have 2 and a half soon to be 4) and with only one battalion deployed externally (we now have another 2 and a half) and no provision for a Brigade Sized standby force that has to be kept active and well fueled and supplied for rapid deployment.

These extra deployments have "multiplyer" effects - as now our pre-deployment training costs have doubled and tripled, as well as deployment costs, and our maintenance costs and insurance, and support and logistics and ware and tare etc etc etc

Then you consider the fact that these new costs have to be handled internally as the Treasury will not just write a blank cheque to the SANDF, so platforms that are not high priority get funds re-directed away from them and towards things that are.

As you can see deployments of the current SANDF are significantly more than were envisioned under the 98 review - hence funding does not match needs.

The new Defence Reveiw will redress that by bringing funding up to what is needed (it allows the Department of Treasury to release funds) and only in the medium and long term (2020-2030) does it change the composition and equipment of the SANDF

Basically all you need to know is this: Under the defence reveiw, the next 5 years will be spent consolidating the SANDF and bringing existing capabilities up to full capacity

MikeCZAR:
Shell!

Enables naval guns to reach further.

And yes naval guns touch targets 120km away!

jln115:

Hahaha dude it doesnt even matter if its 100 or 120km...The fact is you never knew there were navel shells that could reach these distances.

And you call yourself a military researcher!! Yet the biggest irony is the fact that you do no research whatsoever.

Bwahahaha, there is NO 120 km naval gun, manufacturer specs data sheet is final authority and says 100 km max.

You brought a guided shell that no country is using and no navy is using in this world, you brought a wrong munition into a debate,w e were talking about existing naval shells, the one you brought is NOT in use by any world navy, it's still experimental, and also, we were talking about unguided shells, yet you foolishly brought in a guided munition and mixed up analysis of unguided weapons with guided weapons, is y.our brain working ? No That's how you fail exams and score 33 % in South Africa, and remain 2nd bottom brains of the world, you cannot even debate and stay withing context of a topic, you went quoting data of a motorcycle in an argument about bicycles....Mumu

Did you ever know your comment was a guided shell? No, you just copy and pasted whatever you find on internet, I am the one who educated you that you have brought a motorcycle into a debate about bicycles... Odenson

Still, your source of 120 km is wrong, I exposed you Southies to the correct range of 100 km from the manufacturer's technical specification data sheet, any other source is inferior to mine.

You see the difference between a military researcher and you + your mumu South African team on Nairaland ? Yes you see the difference

" Technical Specifications:
Amuunition Configuration
Guided Long range (GLR)
Up to 100 km
Autonomous IMU+GPS Guidance
Precise Shore Bombardment firing "


Source (Manufacturers's website) :http://www.otomelara.it/documents/1287567/3805766/body_VULCANO_127mm_REV2013.pdf

Range is 100 km, shell does not exist in any navy, it's experiemental, and it's not a normal shell, it's a guided munition.

Now say thank you to Nigerian education, we give you for free, because it's beyond your reach

.

lionel4power:


"Inkatha Freedom Party MP Albert Mncwango said it was clear more funding was needed for the defence force, but not at the expense of other priorities.

Freedom Front Plus MP Pieter Groenewald said it did not make sense to consider buying more weapons when those already bought could not be operated because of a lack of funding."

this are the most important points of the article.

Patchesagain:


Defence Reveiw is not about new weapons.

Okay, Nigerians have now interpreted the contents of South African Defence Review ansd educated you today, so you have now cancelled your story about buying tons and tons of new weapons from a paper review as if it is money, well done, mumu. Wishy-Washy 3rd class Southie educational background is an epidemic in your country
.

agaugust:




[s]Okay, Nigerians have now interpreted the contents of South African Defence Review ansd educated you today, so you have now cancelled your story about buying tons and tons of new weapons from a paper review as if it is money, well done, mumu. Wishy-Washy 3rd class Southie educational background is an epidemic in your country[/s]
.

Read my post
Understand my post
Then comment.

The day you dreaded has come: The defense review has been passed.

A dual service drill was held between the army nd navy in kaduna spanning a period of three days.

involving endurance and advanced trench warfare
recon plus surveillance and inter comm provides by a cessna surveillance aircraft.

IED course,diffusion and detection..

advanced use of recoiless guns etc.

courtesy A I T.




This is the first time i'm hearing that Nigeria has a cessna surveillance plane.

So in addition to the ATR-42, Beechraft and Diamond DA42 the Nigerian Airforce also operates Cessna surveillance aircrafts.

Henry120:
A dual service drill was held between the army nd navy in kaduna spanning a period of three days.

involving endurance and advanced trench warfare
recon plus surveillance and inter comm provides by a cessna surveillance aircraft.

IED course,diffusion and detection..

advanced use of recoiless guns etc.

courtesy A I T.




This is the first time i'm hearing that Nigeria has a cessna surveillance plane.

So in addition to the ATR-42, Beechraft and Diamond DA42 the Nigerian Airforce also operates Cessna surveillance aircrafts.

"Advanced trench warfare"

Anyway such surveillance aircraft have ground stations.

MikeCZAR:
"Advanced trench warfare"

Anyway such surveillance aircraft have ground stations.

Mumu!

There is always a GCS for collation of data you retarrd. How do you think Data is transferred?

Henry120:
A dual service drill was held between the army nd navy in kaduna spanning a period of three days.

involving endurance and advanced trench warfare
recon plus surveillance and inter comm provides by a cessna surveillance aircraft.

IED course,diffusion and detection..

advanced use of recoiless guns etc.

courtesy A I T.




This is the first time i'm hearing that Nigeria has a cessna surveillance plane.

So in addition to the ATR-42, Beechraft and Diamond DA42 the Nigerian Airforce also operates Cessna surveillance aircrafts.

le citation required

Henry120:


Mumu!

There is always a GCS for collation of data you retarrd. How do you think Data is transferred?

For 10 points: What is a datalink!?!

Patchesagain:


le citation required

Already provided. AIT news.

Patchesagain:


For 10 points: What is a data link!?!

I was explaining to that soweto retarrd in lay man's terms.


Nigeria is the only country in SSA that has operational data links.

Henry120:




Nigeria is the only country in SSA that has operational data links.

No, you have some data-link enabled platforms.

You dont have a military wide datalink.

This guy, thinking a data-link enabled platform is the samething as a military geared for net-centric warfare.

You guys are about 20 years behind us.

agaugust:




Bwahahaha, there is NO 120 km naval gun, manufacturer specs data sheet is final authority and says 100 km max.

You brought a guided shell that no country is using and no navy is using in this world, you brought a wrong munition into a debate,w e were talking about existing naval shells, the one you brought is NOT in use by any world navy, it's still experimental, and also, we were talking about unguided shells, yet you foolishly brought in a guided munition and mixed up analysis of unguided weapons with guided weapons, is y.our brain working ? No That's how you fail exams and score 33 % in South Africa, and remain 2nd bottom brains of the world, you cannot even debate and stay withing context of a topic, you went quoting data of a motorcycle in an argument about bicycles....Mumu

Did you ever know your comment was a guided shell? No, you just copy and pasted whatever you find on internet, I am the one who educated you that you have brought a motorcycle into a debate about bicycles... Odenson

Still, your source of 120 km is wrong, I exposed you Southies to the correct range of 100 km from the manufacturer's technical specification data sheet, any other source is inferior to mine.

You see the difference between a military researcher and you + your mumu South African team on Nairaland ? Yes you see the difference

" Technical Specifications:
Amuunition Configuration
Guided Long range (GLR)
Up to 100 km
Autonomous IMU+GPS Guidance
Precise Shore Bombardment firing "


Source (Manufacturers's website) :http://www.otomelara.it/documents/1287567/3805766/body_VULCANO_127mm_REV2013.pdf

Range is 100 km, shell does not exist in any navy, it's experiemental, and it's not a normal shell, it's a guided munition.

Now say thank you to Nigerian education, we give you for free, because it's beyond your reach

.

dude you didnt even know there were guided shells, you even brought the G6 into your argument to some how prove that navel guns cant even shoot further than 73km.

Patchesagain:


Read my post
Understand my post
Then comment.

The day you dreaded has come: The defense review has been passed.

You mean we should dread paper reports? Is your paper defence review a weapon, a missile? Hilarious

I would rather dread an armed robber on the street of Cape Town than a paper review of SANDF decline
.

jln115:

dude you didnt even know there were guided shells, you even brought the G6 into your argument to some how prove that navel guns cant even shoot further than 73km.

....because the argument was about unguided shells, and you quoted a wrong type of weapon, you brought a motorcycle into a bicycle argument, I wonder how you entered university with a brain that cannot debate withing context of a topic....you cannot even stay on a subject matter and debate it, you turn the whole arena into a confused mumbo jumbo mix up....33% Soweto brain.

I was the one who told you they were guided shells, you mixed oil with water in a clean argument....Fool

Thank me for letting you know that :

1. It is a guided shell
2. The range is max 100 km NOT 120 km
3. Debates are meant to be focused on a topic and it's context....basic secondary school education

Patchesagain:


No, you have some data-link enabled platforms.

You dont have a military wide datalink.

This guy, thinking a data-link enabled platform is the samething as a military geared for net-centric warfare.

You guys are about 20 years behind us.

SANDF datalinks do not work full spectrum, NOT all equipment is integrated, the plan was to do it stage by stage.

Also, in Sub-Saharan Africa, only Nigeria has been proved to use operational datalink that works 24/7
.

Patchesagain:


No, you have some data-link enabled platforms.

You dont have a military wide datalink.

This guy, thinking a data-link enabled platform is the samething as a military geared for net-centric warfare.

You guys are about 20 years behind us.

yet u have the most friendly fire in SSA with that ur data link,du11ard 0f cape t0wn.

Patchesagain:


No, you have some data-link enabled platforms.

You dont have a military wide datalink.

This guy, thinking a data-link enabled platform is the samething as a military geared for net-centric warfare.

You guys are about 20 years behind us.

yet u have the most friendly fire in Africa with that ur data link,du11ard 0f cape t0wn.

Henry120:
A dual service drill was held between the army nd navy in kaduna spanning a period of three days.

involving endurance and advanced trench warfare
recon plus surveillance and inter comm provides by a cessna surveillance aircraft.

IED course,diffusion and detection..

advanced use of recoiless guns etc.

courtesy A I T.




This is the first time i'm hearing that Nigeria has a cessna surveillance plane.

So in addition to the ATR-42, Beechraft and Diamond DA42 the Nigerian Airforce also operates Cessna surveillance aircrafts.

Nigerian air force is the ISTAR master of Africa, nobody comes close, NOT even Egypt or Algeria.

NAF ISTAR standard is as good as many NATO powers, reason why they could not do what we had not done when the RAF and USAF ISTAR aircraft came to search for Chibok girls, they went away empty handed.

The Nigerian ISTAR force has aircraft with 2014 state of the art technology from USA, Italy, Austria, Germany.

South Africa is 66 years behind us !
.

Patchesagain:


No, you have some data-link enabled platforms.

You dont have a military wide datalink.

This guy, thinking a data-link enabled platform is the samething as a military geared for net-centric warfare.

You guys are about 20 years behind us.

yet u have the most friendly fire in Africa with that ur data link,du11ard 0f cape t0wn,eeh augugust wetin our police men dey call am again?. accidental discharge! lol.........

Nigerian girls 3-3 with Sweden. FIFA female world cup. That Asisat girl is driving me nuts....Am gonna go 4 dat gurl

agaugust:


....because the argument was about unguided shells, and you quoted a wrong type of weapon, you brought a motorcycle into a bicycle argument, I wonder how you entered university with a brain that cannot debate withing context of a topic....you cannot even stay on a subject matter and debate it, you turn the whole arena into a confused mumbo jumbo mix up....33% Soweto brain.

I was the one who told you they were guided shells, you mixed oil with water in a clean argument....Fool

Thank me for letting you know that :

1. It is a guided shell
2. The range is max 100 km NOT 120 km
3. Debates are meant to be focused on a topic and it's context....basic secondary school education

Dude!! Who said the argument was only about guided shells? I said naval guns can shoot 120km/100km with Vulcano guided projectiles you said NO naval gun can shoot those ranges, only after I proved you wrong did you change your argument and your post saying you were talking about unguided shells.

agaugust:


[s]You mean we should dread paper reports? Is your paper defence review a weapon, a missile? Hilarious

I would rather dread an armed robber on the street of Cape Town than a paper review of SANDF decline [/s]
.

Empty words

PrinxArthur1:
yet u have the most friendly fire in SSA with that ur data link,du11ard 0f cape t0wn.

Friendly fire? WTF are you talking about bru?