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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? (26545 Views)
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Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by brocab: 2:19am On Jun 21, 2015 |
Galatians 1:3-6-Grace to you and peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil age. Vs 6-I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel. As you can see, the Catholic's have turned their backs from Christ, only to listen to another gospel. And the new testament was heard around the fourth century. Genesis 17:10 -"This is My covenant that you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: Every male child among you shall be circumcised. So the ordinance of circumcision was an outward physical sign of one's willingness to obey God, and be one of God's chosen people. But under the new covenant God is calling a Spiritual nation composed of individuals converted and regenerated by the Holy Spirit. God's people are now to be circumcised Spiritually. Physical circumcision is no longer necessary for religious purposes.{Only the Catholic's} Back then it was a starting point of what God really wanted' circumcision of the heart. Deuteronomy 10:16-"Therefore circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and be stiff necked no-longer. Romans 2:25-29-For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. Paul told Rome that physical circumcision is of no Spiritual benefit. Colossians 2:10-11-And you are complete in Him, who is the head of the principality and power. Vs 11-In Him you were circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ. Any parent can make decisions for their kids, but will it be the right decision? Either way as the kids grow, we will see the fruit of that decision. with God or without. btoks: |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by brocab: 2:50am On Jun 21, 2015 |
So you believe in Luke 18:15-16, when the Children were brought to Christ, as He touched them they were baptised and saved? That's a strange way of thinking, is there other scriptures to back up your theory? More then likely you haven't got any scriptures to back up your theory, so you have decided to make one up, twisting Luke 18:15 around, "not" even sound close enough to your theory about the baptism of infants-It seems you have connected this scripture to your baby baptism' hoping other believers, won't question your authority to believe your stupidity. And for Romans 2, shouldn't be disgust among you Catholic's, Have I not been judged among the best of you, have you cursed me on this forum, calling me names, abusing me-casting the first stone-against all protestants, such as myself. And still I claim' I love you gay's.. italo: 1 Like |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by btoks: 2:23pm On Jun 21, 2015 |
brocab:Your teachings differs from majority of Christianity,even your protestant pioneers practice infant baptism. So on what authority do you base your novel interpretations? And why should I believe brocab's version because that all you've stated,your version.not what has always been taught through antiquity. 1 Like |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by brocab: 2:57pm On Jun 21, 2015 |
No-one is asking you to believe anybody-It's not brocab you don't understand-its the word of God you don't understand. And my authority comes in the name of Jesus.. I have answered your question above about circumcision-and still you haven't recognised your asking. So instead of giving me the run around, how about proving you theory and show me in word where the pioneer protestants baptised babies. btoks: |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by italo: 5:21pm On Jun 21, 2015 |
Barnabaseloka: 1. Is Romans 2 correct that Gentiles will be judged by conscience? Or is it wrong? 2. Jesus will touch them physically and spiritually. 3. Just assume a person never hears about Christ...or a two-year old...that dies can they be saved? |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by italo: 5:24pm On Jun 21, 2015 |
MuttleyLaff: Yes it doesn't change the truth that Jesus and his apostles taught and practiced the wrong things. thanks for correcting them. |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by hahn(m): 5:26pm On Jun 21, 2015 |
italo: The truth is that you guys are arguing over a lie |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by italo: 5:31pm On Jun 21, 2015 |
MuttleyLaff: None of those verses say 'stop water baptism. It's unnecessary.' And no verse says 'Jesus NEVER Baptized with water' But then, you're the one who corrects all the scripture writers. |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by italo: 5:32pm On Jun 21, 2015 |
hahn: Which lie? |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by hahn(m): 6:24pm On Jun 21, 2015 |
italo: The topict hat you guys are arguing over |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by Barnabaseloka(m): 6:25pm On Jun 21, 2015 |
italo:You do not carefully read people's posts to understand them. 1. Yes, it was correct that the Gentiles would be saved by their conscience in Rom.2. But Rom.3 tells us how ANYONE (Jews and Gentiles) are put right with God TODAY. It is no more of conscience or of the law but ONLY through FAITH in Christ Jesus. 2. What effect/s will the spiritual touch have on such a person? 3. I can't answer your question about the person who has never heard about Jesus b/c it is based on assumptions. How can you tell that he has not heard of it or that he hears it but does not understand? Regarding a two-year old, he has not come of age to make his own choice of following Jesus. When he dies, God will accept him. |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by italo: 7:08pm On Jun 21, 2015 |
Barnabaseloka: 1. So as St Paul picked his pen and started writing, when he got to Rom 2, God's teaching was that Gentiles can be judged by their conscience... Then he continued writing, when he got to chapter 3, God's teaching changed to 'Gentiles will not be judged by conscience anymore?' 2. CCC 1213 Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitae spiritualis ianua), and the door which gives access to the other sacraments. Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: "Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word." 3. Meaning people can be saved without being born again or repentance? Also show me where the Bible said the bold. |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by Barnabaseloka(m): 8:12pm On Jun 21, 2015 |
italo:I do not need arguing with you any longer for you are so confused, yet unteachable. Paul made the Jews know in Rom.2 that they should not boast of having the law, but that God would justify them by obeying the law. He went ahead to tell them that the Gentiles, though without the law, had it written in their hearts. When they did good or bad, their conscience would either excuse or accuse them respectively. In Rom.3 Paul made it clear HOW God justifies ANYONE (jews and Gentiles) NOW. it is no more by the LAW, but by FAITH in Christ Jesus. After Jesus paid the price for the sins of the world, it is through FAITH (believing in Jesus) that God justifies anyone today. Paul was not writing to babies, but to those who had grown and could make life decisions. You ask questions to trap people, just like the pharisees to Jesus. You don't really want to understand or learn from others. How will a two-year old understand the gospel when he cannot even make life decisions, not to talk of making decision to follow Christ? 2. What you have written here is only from the ideology and philosophy of men. The word of God did not teach it. 3. You made assumptions to trap me, which made me not to answer you. Now you have asked another one so that what you have concluded by yourself would have a foothold. I will answer you like this: John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that WHOEVER believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world THROUGH Him might be saved. 18. He who believes in Him is NOT CONDEMNED; but he who DOES NOT believe is CONDEMNED already, because he HAS NOT BELIEVED in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 1 John 5:11 And this is the testimony; that God has given us ETERNAL LIFE, and this life is in His Son. 12. He who has the Son has (eternal) life; he who DOES NOT have the Son of God DOES NOT have (eternal) life. You keep dodging the question of the effect/s believing in Jesus will have in a life spiritually? 1 Like |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by MuttleyLaff: 8:37pm On Jun 21, 2015 |
italo:If you are able to show and reproduce verbatim, where anyone or I, on this thread posted anything in the line of "Jesus and his apostles taught and practiced the wrong things" I will give you a truckload of kolanuts, if you're unable to, then please admit you're grasping straws and agree you telling porkies with these cooked up and unfounded allegations |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by MuttleyLaff: 8:38pm On Jun 21, 2015 |
italo:So are a thousand and one other things in the bible that doesnt say "stop "insert any word of your choice here". It's unnecessary." italo:And no verse says "Jesus Baptized with water" either we however have a verse indicating 'Jesus himself NEVER Baptized anyone with water' italo:You have a lot to know and learn my friend, that is why I dont bat an eye over any of your facetious remarks You should try climbing "mountains", trust me, the view from the top is worth the struggle My brother and friend, you mistake Observations for Corrections, and mistake "drawing attention to something" or "calling attention to anything" as indictment Are you familiar of the crab mentality? You must do, you certainly do, otherwise... |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by brocab: 4:52am On Jun 22, 2015 |
Acts 2:38 "Peter said: repent and be baptised for the remissions of sin. So where did the Catholic Church get this information from? Baptising infants, and what is the Churches gain believing in such unscriptural doctrines. Galatians 4:4 "But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, Born of a woman. Ezekiel 18:20 "The soul who sins shall die. The son not bear the quilt of his father, nor the father bear the quilt of the son, The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself. Matthew 18:3 "Jesus said Assuredly I say to you unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 19:14 "Jesus said, Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them, for of such is the kingdom of heaven. When we read this scripture these children weren't even touched by Jesus as yet, and Jesus had already said clearly these children are sinless. So where did the Church go wrong-it is plain and simple, Satan has plans to take with him' many into Hell. ![]() If you have enough knowledge you could read between the lines and see for yourselves baby baptism isn't written in the bible as such. And the Lord said: unless we become as little children we will not enter into the kingdom of heaven. With this scripture alone shows the only way to God is become as little children, which now proves babies to a curtain age are sinless, and the baptism is used for the remissions of sins. So these babies have been baptised into nothing. btoks: |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by brocab: 5:33am On Jun 22, 2015 |
Don't you ever listen to the truth about God, and why would you want to save a two year old anyway-he/she is already saved-Jesus said: the kingdom of God is like one of these little children, and again the bible repeats itself-baptism is for the remissions of sins, and a child at a curtain age is sinless. Quote-just assume a person never hears about Christ. Matthew 24:14 "And the gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. So you can see Jesus has the handle on this question? Next question ![]() italo: |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by Barnabaseloka(m): 8:51am On Jun 22, 2015 |
brocab:Bro. you hit the nail on the head as regards infants being sinless according to what Jesus said. The word of God never talks about infant baptism anywhere in it. 2 Likes |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by brocab: 9:06am On Jun 22, 2015 |
There's no sin in heaven, and babies need to be sinless to go into heaven-So any Church who practices infant baptism are baptising babies into nothing. The scriptures tells us Baptism is for those who have sin. Jesus said you must believe and be baptised to be saved. Not baptised and saved later when ever. Barnabaseloka: 2 Likes |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by Ubenedictus(m): 1:26pm On Jun 23, 2015 |
MuttleyLaff: you mean the "new" Christians need to spiritualise away the plain meaning of scripture and call obsolate that which scripture says unite us with Christ and make us partaker in his death and resurrection. Clap for yourself, you just succeeded in making God's word look stupid because of your "church tradition". |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by Ubenedictus(m): 1:53pm On Jun 23, 2015 |
MuttleyLaff: no dear, you didn't use those words, that must be due to the fact that italo is a crude guy! You instead called the command Jesus Christ in matt 28:19 and practice practice of his apostles ACT 2:41 and early Christians OBSOLATE! That very thing which paul say we do "into Christ" and makes us sharers of his death and partakers in his resurrection, you have called obsolate. No you didn't say they were "wrong things" you said they were old, passed and withered away, you compared the things of the new covenant and equated them with that of the old. Peter says "baptism save you now" but you would rather teach against scripture that it is obsolate! So I'll ask you, from whom have you recieved a different covenant that will make you teach that the rites of the new covenant is obsolate? Because it seems clear to me you guys are certainly not operating in the covenant of Jesus Christ, you are not in d same covenant, paul, peter and the other apostles were! If you are in that same covenant you won't teach that it practices are obsolate. |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by Ubenedictus(m): 2:53pm On Jun 23, 2015 |
MuttleyLaff: this is why I enjoy the gospels, the evangelists always make sure to explain the figure of speech, d above passage is explained. Do you see any such explanation in jn 3:5? What is actually written after that discourse is that Jesus went to the countryside of Judea and baptised. There is nowhere that passage lends itself to figurative interpretation |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by Ubenedictus(m): 3:15pm On Jun 23, 2015 |
Barnabaseloka:lol you have again swaped water for word. Maybe you should check roman 6. |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by Syncan(m): 5:15pm On Jun 23, 2015 |
MuttleyLaff: Are you serious at the bold? What kind of baptism were the followers of John complaining about here : John 3:26 And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him. |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by Syncan(m): 5:28pm On Jun 23, 2015 |
italo: The thing is just so tiresome. Jesus said its water and spirit....they now say no, its word and spirit. Philip taught the ethiopian eunuch that its water and went ahead to use water in acts 8....they say its because the ethiopian eunuch was a babe (as if any convert is an adult in the way already) Peter knowing the importance of the water, insisted on it after the manifestation of the Holy Spirit in Acts 10....They say he used his discretion. Paul used water on lydia and the others in Acts 16...They have not said anything on it yet. I don't know why they are afraid of water. |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by Nobody: 6:59pm On Jun 23, 2015 |
there is an article on the subject of BAPTISM on this site.
Www.livingwordmedia.org click on menu,at the topmost right side of the page. Locate "Saints community and You bulletins". You will see a material on the subject of baptism. its free |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by Nobody: 6:59pm On Jun 23, 2015 |
there is an article on the subject of BAPTISM on this site.
Www.livingwordmedia.org click on menu,at the topmost right side of the page. Locate "Saints community and You bulletins". You will see a material on the subject of baptism. its free |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by Barnabaseloka(m): 8:03pm On Jun 23, 2015 |
Ubenedictus:1. And what do you have to say as regards Rom.6? 2. John 3:5 talks about being BORN AGAIN and not about WATER BAPTISM as you might have thought. 3. If one repents of his sins on hearing God's word and believes in Jesus, is he born again? 4. It is not everywhere the word 'water' is mentioned in the bible that it signifies 'physical' water. It can also signify the 'Holy Spirit' as well as the 'word of God'. This is what we have been trying to make clear here. |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by Ubenedictus(m): 9:46pm On Jun 23, 2015 |
Syncan: you don run go front abeg start with jn 3:22 |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by Ubenedictus(m): 9:55pm On Jun 23, 2015 |
Barnabaseloka: i think rm 6 should free you from the constant jumping and dodging you have been doing. Rm 6:4 So by our baptism into his death we were buried with him, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the father's glorious power, we too begin living a new life this shows us that the new life we are talking about is giving to us in baptism as we are buried with Christ and rise to newness of life. This my dear is a very clear passage and it also makes it clear that the birth of water and spirit is truly of water and spirit. It is certain baptism. Unless ofcuz you believe paul was talking about "the word".... |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by Ubenedictus(m): 10:16pm On Jun 23, 2015 |
To answer your other questions Barnabaseloka:and i submit, that to be born again and to be baptised are exactly the same thing. 3. If one repents of his sins on hearing God's word and believes in Jesus, is he born again?no sir, to repent and accept Jesus is a good thing but that isn't what the bible means by born again, to be born again is to receive new life by water and the holyspirit, and the water is really water and this has been the consistent belief and understanding of all Christians for abt 1700yrs until calvin reformed the reformation, anyone who it defining it differently is making a new doctrine unknown to all older christians and playing with the word of God. It is of these "latter teaching" that scriptures rightly warn us about. 4. It is not everywhere the word 'water' is mentioned in the bible that it signifies 'physical' water. It can also signify the 'Holy Spirit' as well as the 'word of God'. my dear water is used as a symbol for things in scripture apart from "physical water", nobody is argueing that, instead I am saying for the passage at hand the literal water is the exact meaning of the passage, the practice of all early Christian and the consistent belief of christian, the latter teaching been inventions of men! |
Re: Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? by Ubenedictus(m): 10:49pm On Jun 23, 2015 |
OLAADEGBU:your suggested answers starts well and goes off point. Can someone be a part of the covenant without taking the covenantal sign? |
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