INTROVERT:
Jesus is human and God and understood his divine position. Remember he cursed the fig tree, he scattered the temple and what just posted. The physical pain and anguish he felt as a human was what led him to make that statement on the cross. Remember in the garden sweat as blood formed on his head while he prayed for the cup to pass him over. Do not forget that when one of his disciples sliced someone's ear he told them that he could as his father to send 10000 angels to fight on his behalf and afterwards he healed the person.

Bigbang2013:
if jesus has the same will has God why did he prayed to God on the cross he even went to an extent of say "father ,father why have though forsaken me" do u know the gravity of that word....

if Jesus is the same as God, why did he prayed to God on the cross, he even went to the extent of saying "father, father why has thou forsaken me" do u know the gravity of that word....

jnrbayano:
Jesus took flesh to do one thing, SAVE MAN and that ultimately is the will of his father (God)

He submitted to his father's will albeit the demands of his flesh which manifested very well in the Garden of Gethsemane (Take this cup away from Me) and on the cross (Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?)

The man Jesus's will is different from that of the father but he humbly submitted to his father's will.

But remember Jesus himself is God. That God's will is nothing but his will.

Note:

Father=God the father
Jesus=God the son
God the father=God the son

Bigbang2013:
if jesus has the same will has God why did he prayed to God on the cross he even went to an extent of say "father ,father why have though forsaken me" do u know the gravity of that word....

Bigbang2013:
if jesus has the same will has God why did he prayed to God on the cross he even went to an extent of say "father ,father why have though forsaken me" do u know the gravity of that word....

Bigbang2013:
if jesus has the same will has God why did he prayed to God on the cross he even went to an extent of say "father ,father why have though forsaken me" do u know the gravity of that word....

johnydon22:

This bolded is called Unitarianism meaning Jesus = yahweh and yahweh = jesus.
trinitarian doctrine is Jesus is not the father and the father is not jesus but both are God. . . check your doctrine well because the upper part of your post connotes trinitarian doctrine while the bolded part shows Unitarianism

Bigbang2013:
if jesus has the same will has God why did he prayed to God on the cross he even went to an extent of say "father ,father why have though forsaken me" do u know the gravity of that word....

Bigbang2013:
if u say e cursed the fig tree do u know it was because jesus told his disciples that were hungry that if they get to the tree they will eat but on getting dere jesus saw nothing then he cursed it if he was a divine God should e not av know d tree would av no fruit wen e was coming

Scholar8200:
As per the highlighted, Jesus NEVER said that!!!!!

Bigbang2013:
if jesus has the same will has God why did he prayed to God on the cross he even went to an extent of say "father, father why have though forsaken me" do u know the gravity of that word....

Syncan:
Psalm 22.

MuttleyLaff:
"... Father, Father why have thou forsaken me..." is not what was said in the Aramaic language He uttered.
This wrong interpretation has been passed down and incorrectly taught this way

So? What about Psalm 22?
That right there, the Psalm 22 you displayed, is the genesis.
By hook or by crook, translators try to align Jesus's utterance on the cross with David's lamentation in Psalms 22:1,
but the two scenarios really arent the same

Not sure of the translators' sincerety when imagining and settling for "forsaken"
when that wasnt what Jesus, in the Aramaic language uttered on the cross.

I do understand, and do see why the translators leaned towards "forsaken"
but going for that strong and "borrowed from Psalms 22:1" "forsaken" word stretched the truth
and obliterated getting the true understanding of what Jesus actually said and/or really meant on the cross

Quite sure Jesus is fully aware of Deuteronomy 31:6, Deuteronomy 31:8, Joshua 1:5 and 1 Chronicles 28:20 to not have used that strong "forsaken" word in the manner or way, that the translators want to lead all to believe is what and how He uttered the words

Syncan:
I just read through your "I too know" write up here, you seem to just be arguing with your self to a simple quote that says "Psalm 22". Why you are quarreling with Psalm 22 which obviously began with "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me"? Indeed a messianic psalm which illustrates the agony the suffering servant will go through. Don't be perplexed, God the Father did not abandon his Son in his Son’s suffering but allowed him in his humanity to experience the sense of divine abandonment that humans often feel during times of need, and especially when in sin. Just as we often feel that God has abandoned us when we are suffering (even though this isn’t the case), so the Son of God in his humanity experienced that aspect of human suffering as well. He died for our sins, and the weight of those sins—and thus the feeling of abandonment—must have been exceedingly heavy at that point. This is God's will, and note that Jesus had prayed that "Thy will be done" in the garden of Gethsemane.

By quoting this psalm, Jesus shows that he is the fulfillment of that prophecy and that he will be vindicated, which is evident in the psalm’s triumphant ending. Yes it is the first verse of the Psalm like you pointed out, but Jesus does not need to read the whole Psalm. If i say "The Lord is my shepherd" for example, many will know to complete the rest. He quoted Psalm 22.


As for the Aramaic translation stuff, bring your Aramaic here and show us how it wasn't psalm 22:1.
It's not everything that I want to argue about, but I just had to make myself clear since you quoted my post "Psalm 22".

MuttleyLaff:
Dont ever mistake truth for ITK
If the truth is incontrovertible then your swipe is a small price to pay for airing it.

If you thought I was arguing with myself, then...
and your "Don't be perplexed" bit is just hilarious, you must have had a good laugh writing that
but then you seem oblivious of the Socratic method used in the post, you got "perplexed" reading the post,
not realising am asking questions and returning a few odd answers to stimulate critical thinking towards illuminating the truth

Fulfilment of prohecy? Pfft
SMH. Fulfilment of prohecy indeed.

" thus the feeling of abandonment—must have been exceedingly heavy at that point." - LOL, kai listen to yourself
"Agba o le wa lọja, ki ori ọmọ wọ" - ask any of igbati/yooba neighbours for the meaning of that
You definitely noticed I used "strong borrowed Psalms 22:1 forsaken word", as opposed to not using the actual word Jesus uttered on the cross

You need to examine the sorroundings and backdrop up to when Jesus uttered those words to ascertain if He was "forsaken"

The fact is Jesus uttered those famous words out in Aramaic,
if He were referring to Psalms 22:1 verbatim, as in word for word, copy to copy, why didnt He repeat it same, as it was in Hebrew?
Why didnt He utter: ""Eli, Eli, lamah azabtani?" in Hebrew like in Psalms 22:1
but instead in Aramaic uttered "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?
Why did Jesus change words, why change "azabtani" to "sabachthani"?
- Obviously they have different meanings, besides the mago-mago, wuru-wuru trying to pass "sabachthani" as "azabtani" clearly is there for any willing to see

"Nashatani" AND NOT "sabachthani", is the Aramaic word for Hebrew's "azabtani", which in Psalms 22:1 is the translated English word "forsaken"

For whose benefit there, did Jesus, in Aramaic utter those words ?
Who were listening, who there could have understood the language He uttered and who there was the message in that utterance for?

Jesus doesnt speak impetuously, like David did, with "forsaken me" in Psalms 22:1
It just isnt at all part of any of Jesus' m.o

NumberOne3:

God did forsake Him. God cannot behold sin...
Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: - Habakuk 1:13a
Most will say Jesus is God (in the general sense) and He is. Is Jesus the Father? NO. Jesus always spoke of the Father seperately.
I and my Father are one. - John 10:30
You cannot be one with yourself as you are already one. Just like husband and wife. They are one, but are seperate beings.

Bigbang2013:


first of when you say two married people can be co joined as one yes it is true but God has a heavenly father cannot b one with jesus because he his a messanger of God look at what jesus said here

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.....if jesus is a God I believe e should av divine power n authority to know what his father knows ...dat is too tell u dey r two different people

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.(stating his difference from God)


John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.(another evidence) in conclusion for the fact that he performed miracles doesn't make him God

crusadistic:
how can you be two different things at the same time

Bigbang2013:
if jesus has the same will has God why did he prayed to God on the cross he even went to an extent of say "father ,father why have though forsaken me" do u know the gravity of that word....

Bigbang2013:









first of when you say two married people can be co joined as one yes it is true but God has a heavenly father cannot b one with jesus because he his a messanger of God look at what jesus said here

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.....if jesus is a God I believe e should av divine power n authority to know what his father knows ...dat is too tell u dey r two different people

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.(stating his difference from God)


John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.(another evidence) in conclusion for the fact that he performed miracles doesn't make him God

NumberOne3:


I NEVER said Jesus is God. I said he is a god (a deity or supreme being). There are heirachies in the Spirit.
God is a Spirit. The Spirit of Christ is Joined with God just like Christians are joined (one) with Christ.
Spirits can be joined. Stop viewing it from the angle of the flesh. That is why I used Husband and Wife as physical examples (seperate bodies, one spirit)

What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. - 1 Corinthians 6:16-17

Summary: Jesus is Jesus. God is God. Both are deities (Gods) joined by one Spirit.

Syncan:
So you read George Lamsa's claim

Syncan:
and that suddenly makes you authoritative in the matter.

Syncan:
Your question is whether the Aramaic shavaktani (which is spelled sabachthani in Greek) really means “abandoned.”

Syncan:
And the answer is yes.

Syncan:
Though it is a remote possibility that both Mark and Matthew translated it wrong (note that mark used eloi eloi),

Syncan:
It is still likely that Jesus substituted another word rather than translating azavtani directly, but we have external evidence about shavaktani.

Syncan:
In particular, we find the same verb (in different conjugations) in Ezra 6:6 and Daniel 4:23. In each spot, it has to do with “leaving alone.”

Furthermore, we frequently find the Aramaic shavak as a translation for the Hebrew azav, just for example, in Targum Onkolos (aramaic translation) to Genesis 2:24.

Syncan:
Wikipedia has this to say "The Aramaic word form sebaqtani is based on the verb sebaq/sabaq, 'to allow, to permit, to forgive, and to forsake', with the perfect tense ending -t (2nd person singular: 'you'), and the object suffix -ani (1st person singular: 'me').

Syncan:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_of_Jesus.

Syncan:
Lastly, I prefer to choose he was quoting Psalm 22 as He always does concerning various passages that points to his life, many of such were pointed out by the evangelists, referring us to the prophets.

Syncan:
Also on that Cross we cannot overlook his other last words such as the last words
"Into the hands I commit my spirit", which comes straight from Psalm 31:5
nor "I thirst" which is believed to come from
Psalm 63:1

Syncan:
Read the whole Psalm, short as it is and it becomes clear what Jesus was saying on the cross, especially since he rejected the vinegar soaked sponge after reciting those words.

Syncan:
Sorry, Lamsa's is just a claim by one who spoke syriac of 2000 years old from what Jesus spoke, and I’m not convinced by his (unsupported) claim that Jesus would not have referred to the Psalms in Aramaic.

MuttleyLaff:


You know the contention is not about if Jesus was quoting Psalm 22 or not
but was that Jesus did not quote Psalm 22:1 verbatim, as in not word for word or copy for copy
Jesus deliberately and consciously changed "azabtani" in Psalm 22:1 to "sabachthani" when He uttered His 4th word on the cross


Jesus deliberating did quote Psalms 22:1 verbatim
but consciously changed, switched language and used the Aramaic "sabachthani", so as to make the distinction from "nashatani"

Syncan:
Psalm 22.

Bigbang2013:
if u say e cursed the fig tree do u know it was because jesus told his disciples that were hungry that if they get to the tree they will eat but on getting dere jesus saw nothing then he cursed it if he was a divine God should e not av know d tree would av no fruit wen e was coming