@tonytony208"which polytechnic did u graduate from".For ur mind na correct English be that? Graduate from or graduated from? So much for Bsc holder. Mtchew

GODAKPAN:
ADMITTION REQUIREMENTS: BSC=5 CREDIT PLUS 4 JAMB SUBJECTS AND HND=4 CREDIT PLUS 3 JAMB SUBJECTS, WHY THE NOISE? I HAVE BOTH AND I KNOW WHAT AM SAYING. I EVEN HAVE CITY ANG GUILDS LEVEL 4 WHICH IS EQUIVALENT TO HND. GUY GO TO SCHOOL AND STOP SCREAMING. LAW AND MEDICAL GRADUATE STARTS AT LEVEL 10 WHILE OTHERS START AT LEVEL 8. WHY ARE WE NOT KILLING OURSELVES. ENUFF OF DIS CERTIFICATE COMPARISM AS THEY DIDNT START TODAY, THEY WERE THERE BEFORE YOU STARTED SCHOOL.
EACH TIME YOU COME UP WITH ISSUES LIKE THIS, YOU END UP RIDDICULING THE HND GRADUATES. WE KNEW OUR FAITH BEFORE AND DURING SCHOOL. THEY WERE NEVER EQUALS THATS WHY YOU NEED HND TO DO A YEAR 3 DIRECT ENTRY PROGRAMME IN A UNIVERSITY PLUS YOUR MANDATORY BASIC O'LEVEL

Your comment is a little bit harsh, but very true

guardsman:



U ar getting it twisted. dis is not strictly about HND & BSC & which is superior. dis is about d systemic imbalance in d federal ministry of interior which is scandalous to say d least. dat ministry classifies HND holders as JUNIOR staff. d wage disparity is so outrageous dat it's causing palpable tension & irritation in among d workforce. What obtains in d ministry is unfair & doesn't make for industrial harmony when a section of d work force is being treated & looked down upon so condescendingly.
HND holders in dat ministry ar not only classified as non-commissioned officers but also as JUNIOR STAFF. d salary disparity is extremely disturbing. d HND holder earns less than N70,000 while d BSC holder earns a little less than N120,000. dis things could be balanced better to make everyone hav a sense of belonging & being appreciated.
We should always strive 4 balance & equity whether we ar directly involved or not. An injustice to one is an injustice to all.
NB: I'm not an HND holder or a staff of d ministry but I hav a relative in there & I share her pain at d level of mistreatment of HND holders in d paramilitary establishments under dat ministry.

I ain't getting any thing twisted sir as I only replied to the Op.
I also have a bossom friend in prison service , He has B.sc and even Chartered but due to the fact that he started working with his SSCE, His Boss is frustrating his upgrade and the inhumane treatment given to Junior staffs ... My friend is in UniBadan now for his masters so that he can port away from Prison service.

So I understand what the Op is saying clearly well but that is the Nigerianisation of the interior ministry ...... it is same thing as our Governors who will campaign for us to vote them in and we would do after which their convoy would be passing and the mopols would start beating other motorists while driving like insane people.

Nigerian factors everywhere, may God help us all and strengthen us to help ourselves.

But as for B.sc/HND .... they are not the same and based on my assertions in the above post ... ,B.sc is higher than HND but that doesn't called for inhumane and maltreatment of anybody.

Jakara:
Federal Government should please end this certificate discrimination between HND & B.Sc. holders in Federal Ministry of Interior (Prisons, Immigration, Civil Defence) and others in order to increase their productivity.

This discrimination is irrelevant, dangerious, unethical and unconstitutional.

There is a looming bloody clash between these two cadres at fields of operation due to live arms/ammunition they bear and that is why every well meaning Nigerian should help towards scrapping out this because you/ your family will become victim directly/indirectly & never ask God why because you caused it by not publishing or broadcasting this message.

Few of the discriminations witnessed in Min. of Interior are;
? HND (Inspectorate Cadre), while B.Sc. (Superintendent Cadre).
? Entry Level for HND is G/L 7, while a fellow Graduate with B.Sc. is G/L 8.
? HND G/L 7 earns (#70,000 pm), while B.Sc. G/L 8 earns (#120,000 pm).
? Terminal Point for HND is G/L 13, while B.Sc. is to the highest G/L.
? HND/ inspectorate cadre ranks are confusing, while superintendent
ranks are normal ranks/recognized ranks in military/paramilitary
agencies.
? B.Sc Holder hardly pay complement to his superior officer with HND certificate.
? HND graduates are denied one Grade Level during rank conversation.
? Above all, HND holder in this Ministry of Interior are regarded and treated as artisans with WASC or Trade Test qualifications.

It is shameful that staff of Ministry of Interior and others as affected no longer concentrate on their duties or bring ideas that could help the job, rather they focuse on getting more certificates by hook or by crook in order to be converted to superintendent cadre.

It is obvious that other well recognised security agencies like; Nigeria Military, DSS, Nigerian Police, etc do not discriminate
in ranking between HND & B.Sc. Holders.

Federal Government should merge Ministry of Interior with Police to stop this nonsense if they persists in this evil act called discrimination.

zoo govt won't do anything. their kids are in UK, US, Canada n Dubai.

Imokay:


Nice way to respond, however i don't think such matters are things you expect to be listed in a national constitution or an act needs to be enacted to give effect to it. Every service or organisation should be at liberty to determine what skill set is required to carryout it's job functions. For instance the legal department of a company need not given to a paralegal if the job function entails actions that must be taken by a lawyer called to the bar. A production company will not be helping itself if it employs too many engineers at the detriment of technologist and technicians it actually requires for it's bottomline.

The pay will be determined by the relative need and availability in the market of the skill set as such a fresh technologist from polytechnic with knowledge of programming and operating CNC machines may earn higher at entry level than his Bachelors engineering degree holder who will be a pupil handling product design and system planning. But it will be a misnomer for the technologist to insist on being a management trainee also, as that will not develop the skillset he came in with.

Are you also aware that some Welding technicians earn as high as 700K monthly in Oil and gas installations while an engineer with similar years of experience in oil service companies will be happy to go home with 350K.

You are making a whole lot of sense.

For the love of God, you cannot compare a polytechnic to a university. If you don't like the inspector cadre, stop whining and go get a damn Degree

histemple:
Op, please respect the intelligence of your fellow polytechnic graduates by correcting this DANGERIOUS to DANGEROUS. Please also note that your indirect insistence as regards the correctness of the spelling could be justifying the discrimination.
Also note that nairaland has subscribers all over the world.

A community is said to be incomplete without a mad man/woman, maybe you came to complete this Nairaland Community.

When true B.Sc/HND graduates are serious talking constructively fools like you are busy checking the "I" and the "t". I blaim Nigeria that is based on paper qualifications.

And who told you it isn't the same with other services. For the police, the requirement for the ASP cadre is a university degree. For Inspector cadre, its a HND. Rank-&-file: SSCE, OND

In my opinion, the discrimination is baseless and borne out of bias. It's always good to talk from experience. Bsc is not better than HND because i have been into both systems. I was studying computer engineering at Michael okpara university before i had issues in the school and left.I was opportune to finish 200level before leaving the school for federal polytechnic nekede. But during my two years in the university, i knew virtually nothing as a prospective engineer. It's theory all the way and alternative to practicals that they give us in the name of practicals. I thought i was doing well until i came to poly nekede and my eyes opened. Most of the courses we did in 200L were treated in my ND1. Right now i have enough practical experience and i am not gainsaying. I am in ND2 now and i am happier here in the polytechnic than in the university. For those talking about course content not being the same, it is only on paper that they are not the same. All the courses i did while in the university has been treated here. For those who know about Federal poly nekede, you know that it's very close to FUTO; FUTO students pay some poly nekede students to write exams for them. Inasmuch as I'm not scared of the effects of the discrimination, I think it should stop. It doesn't matter weather you have HND of BSC. What matters is what you have upstairs. I think it's high time we stopped attaching so much importance to certificate as against the holder.

( RACISM )everywhere in d WORLD.

[color=#006600][/color]

ayoolanr:


Dude.....you ought to be ashamed of yourself.....your standard of measuring his intelligence is based on a FOREIGN standard. After-all English language is not our Mother tongue! What i am trying to say is this.......re-read his write up and you will see he has made a clear distinction as to when it is or not permissible to discriminate between the forms of qualification....It is implied when you focus a little bit more ....LOL...pele, i know it's not easy to use a large portion of our brains!!!!

This statement (English is not our Mother tongue) is disgusting. I remember vividly, the Patience Jonathan and Wole Soyinka saga and some human beings made the same statement.
There is absolutely nothing wrong in using any language to communicate and there is nothing preventing the OP from using his mother tongue here.
Aside insulting the intelligence of your audience, refusing to accept your errors and subsequently correcting them is even more infuriating.

GODAKPAN:
ADMITTION REQUIREMENTS: BSC=5 CREDIT PLUS 4 JAMB SUBJECTS AND HND=4 CREDIT PLUS 3 JAMB SUBJECTS, WHY THE NOISE? I HAVE BOTH AND I KNOW WHAT AM SAYING. I EVEN HAVE CITY ANG GUILDS LEVEL 4 WHICH IS EQUIVALENT TO HND. GUY GO TO SCHOOL AND STOP SCREAMING. LAW AND MEDICAL GRADUATE STARTS AT LEVEL 10 WHILE OTHERS START AT LEVEL 8. WHY ARE WE NOT KILLING OURSELVES. ENUFF OF DIS CERTIFICATE COMPARISM AS THEY DIDNT START TODAY, THEY WERE THERE BEFORE YOU STARTED SCHOOL.
EACH TIME YOU COME UP WITH ISSUES LIKE THIS, YOU END UP RIDDICULING THE HND GRADUATES. WE KNEW OUR FAITH BEFORE AND DURING SCHOOL. THEY WERE NEVER EQUALS THATS WHY YOU NEED HND TO DO A YEAR 3 DIRECT ENTRY PROGRAMME IN A UNIVERSITY PLUS YOUR MANDATORY BASIC O'LEVEL

Another good point

histemple:
[color=#006600][/color]

This statement (English is not our Mother tongue) is disgusting. I remember vividly, the Patience Jonathan and Wole Soyinka saga and some human beings made the same statement.
There is absolutely nothing wrong in using any language to communicate and there is nothing preventing the OP from using his mother tongue here.
Aside insulting the intelligence of your audience, refusing to accept your errors and subsequently correcting them is even more infuriating.

Woa...Woa......take a chill pill lady! Life is beautiful!!!!!

Drabrah:
I think everybody knows y he's gone 2 sch & wot d labour market portends 4 him/her while in sch. D mechanism has already bn put in place so u know wot u put in 4 & wot 2 expect thereafter.
Im neither a B. Sc nor an HND holder, buh fact is, by default, uni grads r supposed 2 b berra than poly grads 4 a No of reasons. This in4med d discrepancies
Truth b told, we cannot all av equal opportunities, best we can av is an egalitarian condition & dat implies dat everybody shud respect boundaries & desist frm unhealthy rivalry. Every1 is important, buh there must b order. Hence, Every1 cannot b in control. Dat's y conditions r stipulated. So, u either meet d conditions by getting d necessary 'papers' or else abide by d prevailing conditions.

Right on point

boldan:


Your comment is a little bit harsh, but very true

AM SORRY SIR, SUMMARY, LETS NOT TRY TO ADJUST THE GOAL POST IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GAME.

Jakara:


A community is said to be incomplete without a mad man/woman, maybe you came to complete this Nairaland Community.

When true B.Sc/HND graduates are serious talking constructively fools like you are busy checking the "I" and the "t". I blaim Nigeria that is based on paper qualifications.

It is even difficult to believe that you actually went to school. Which version of English is "BLAIM" found in?

I just finished my ND and am about going for Hnd by Gods grace. I have read so much about this discrimination of the Bsc and Hnd cert and indeed though I feel little pain and regret inside me but I have decided to move on. I realize every hands are not equal. If I look back to those who even want to go to college of education but couldnt because of finance, I just give God the glory about the little step I have took. For me to start worrying over the Hnd course won't put food on my table. All I have to do for myself is to work hard and compete myself with others anywhere I find myself. Hnd or bsc can even go to hell because Gods plans for me is the final. I will just try my best to finish up and work towards my future. No more regret, no more pains. But I look to even be an entrepreneur someday. All my poly mates should accept their fate and work hard. Tomorrow is pregnant. (One day the neglected stone will be selected and accepted).

tonytony208:
Your spelling of "dangerous" is enough to show you off as a poly student. Many of them cant speak or write simple and correct English; just like you have displayed here. Now, which polytechnic did you graduate from? Your school's standard must have been very poor! "Dangerious"? Queen Elizabeth must hear this!

Haven't u seen university graduates make grammatical blunders in spoken and written English?

Oh....and maybe you haven't heard of the phrase "typographical error", Mr. University graduate.

Smh!

BTW, graduated from IMSU but to say I'm disappointed with the level of intelligence, exposure, enlightenment, spoken as well as written English of Nigerian graduates, would be an understatement.

The unemployment issue facing the country isnt totally as a result of the government's ineptitude, to a certain level, the quality of employable graduates isn't just good enough.

joelpearl:
Brother, in as much as I will like to help bear ur pain, I will like to enlighten u on some issues. The university Degree and d HND are not d same. Their course content, Mode of entry, result value in d labour mkt are different. For instance,
1.) if u apply for DE with an HND, u will be admitted into 300L in d university.
2.) if u opt for postgrad, u will have to pass trou a year PGD b4 applying for Post grad while a degree holder will apply direct for post grad except if its a 3rd class.
3.) If ur foundation is HND and u latter have PHD without passing through university Degree, u can't lecture in d university, u can only b a lab technologist.

Even while we were in 500L, there is dis Prof that will tell us not to b afraid of lab tech that we can only respect dem. That wen we graduate, we become their boss.

Even d university degree u talk about, there is discrimination, we have d B.Eng, B.Tech, B.Sc, LLB, B.Edu.

Some are regarded as professional courses, d others are not.

So my brother, d university degree & d HND are not same and a such can't be treated as same.

You got it right there.

Bollove:
[b]for HND/B.sc disparity .....

I was once in Polytechnic before porting to uni thus I have experienced both Institutions and I can tell you the condition and parameters of learning in both Institution differs as far as academic is concern.

B.sc is Bachelor of Science ...which implies you have been "theoretically, conceptually and pragmatically" equipped to relate with modalities of your discipline while HND , Higher National Diploma implied you have been pragmatically (practically) equipped to relate with modalities in your discipline as theoretically and conceptually evolved by a B.sc/M.sc/PhD holder

Polytechnics in a bid to make more money has delved into discipline they don't have resources to undertake .....

at parity, You can't compare somebody who has been tutored by professors with somebody who hardly passed through a PhD holder in his/her entire academic life.


Polytechnic is a technical school from her name "technics" the poly implies the discipline in such Institution is more than one technical discipline e.g Civil engineering, Elect elect , Mech eng etc ..... we also have monotechnics , an institution that specialise in one technical discipline e.g Civil engineering.

At Parity, you can't expect somebody who is theoretically, conceptually and pragmatically oriented to be at the same level with someone who is much pragmatically oriented with little conceptualizing and theoretical underpinnings, framework s and background[/b] .......

Please learn things yourself before you dabble into conclusions. Those people who gives Poly 70,000 and B.sc 120,000 are not fo.ol and it is not as if they don't know what they are doing .

You can't compare B.sc accounting/M.sc Accounting/PhD Accounting with a Chartered Accountant in terms of training received and pay ...... the PhD/B.sc/M.sc are academic orientations while ICAN is a professional/Practical orientation that is why HND holders in accounting excel well in ICAN than B.sc Accounting at parity

if you have HND , technical orientation before you can dabble into academic orientation , you would convert you technical knowledge at PGD (Post Graduate Diploma) schools then you move into M.Sc while a B.sc holder will move straight into M.Sc unless you carry third class/pass then you also get to retrained at PGD schools before moving up academic ladder.

Education is more than practical, some people evolve these courses we are studying from great effort of research and contributions to knowledge through strong theories , conceptualisations and empirical issues to allow real life relationships between concpets and theories.

It is quite embarrassing in Nigeria for some people to just enter into a school without knowing, understanding and preparing for the kind of knowledge to be exposed to ..... You don't just go to school without understanding the kinda knowledge they are impacting therein and the kinda knowledge they have impacted on you.


I am tired of B.sc/HND parity .... until you go to University yourself, you would not be able to ascertain the difference between these two levels of knowledge.

Well said. But i don't understand your point. Too many contradictions of ideas.

ladkud:


I want you to tell the courses in which engineering student are offering in university that polytechnic students didn't offer. for me, am a graduate of polytechnic and I have met my counterparts from university and discovered that they are just empty barrel. i sent my transcript to world education service in USA and the number of credit unit I offered is even more than B.sc. note I graduated with distinction in civil engineering. if u are graduate of civil engineering we can enter into academic duel.

This is just an empty chest beating typical of an irate polytechnic graduate . When you wanto do comparison at parity ,you would go to the four walls of any university ask the dean of faculty of engineering to call out their best graduating students for academic duel.

I think that is better . Then you could do that for most University in Nigeria for you to ascertain you are the overall best in your distinction not to come here and test your popularity on Nairaland.

Jakara:


A community is said to be incomplete without a mad man/woman, maybe you came to complete this Nairaland Community.

When true B.Sc/HND graduates are serious talking constructively fools like you are busy checking the "I" and the "t". I blaim Nigeria that is based on paper qualifications.

It is even difficult to believe that you actually went to school. Which version of English is "BLAIM" found in? You still need Brighter Grammar.

Bollove:
You have certificates you don't know their meaning and implications . This is embarrassing.

This is like a carpenter fighting a mechanic .... both of you no dey trained on the same thing na.

MBA is a professional course (You will be equipped with pragmatics issues in the business world) not an academic course .... so there is nothing like university MBA as you stated above because there is no Polytechnic MBA in the first place.

Master Business Administration (MBA) is even different from M.sc Business Administration ......

We just have to understand our certificates ... don't just go to school and take them because of money you will collect as a result of possessing one ...... kindly try to ascertain what you are trained for.

To measure people like you is very easy. One can easy note that you are arrogant and pompous.

We Nigerias fail because once we think we are at a better position or office, we forget about others.

Note: I am only agitating for a change not that I have not been placed fine. That Christ died for you and I does not mean that he was a sinner.

Bros this HND wey una dey use play anyhow so, if una see some HND holders wey dey finish work for town, una nor go talk anyhow again. If u like carry, all the degrees put for head, as long as they can't fetch u money, then u are as useless as those degrees. I know some HND guys who earn more than Most VCs of universities in Nigeria. Some ignorant fellows will doubt this, but this is a fact. So which do u prefer, a B.Sc degree without money, or a WAEC holder with so much money. Life is also about setting our priorities right.

ladkud:


I want you to tell the courses in which engineering student are offering in university that polytechnic students didn't offer. for me, am a graduate of polytechnic and I have met my counterparts from university and discovered that they are just empty barrel. i sent my transcript to world education service in USA and the number of credit unit I offered is even more than B.sc. note I graduated with distinction in civil engineering. if u are graduate of civil engineering we can enter into academic duel.

ARE YOU AN ENGR(NSE)CERTIFIED OR COREN ENGR CERTIFIED. WHAT WAS YOUR JAMB SCORE? STOP EMBARRASSING YOURSELF.

bettercreature:
Polytechnic are just too bad infact they are destroying Nigerian EDUCATION system,you will weep for Nigeria if you attend some polytechnic lectures

i totally agree with you on this.

Jakara:


To measure people like you is very easy. One can easy note that you are arrogant and pompous.

We Nigerias fail because once we think we are at a better position or office, we forget about others.

Note: I am only agitating for a change not that I have not been placed fine. That Christ died for you and I does not mean that he was a sinner.

There is nothing pompous about it . You opened a thread with a topic as if you are an authority but you are not.

It is non of my business your placement .... we all know Majority of we Nigerians go to school for money we would collect after graduating without asking ourselves about the implications of all the modules that lead to the certificate given to us and that is why many Nigerian youth are jobless because our lecturers don't tell us what is in our certificate and the lazy ones also won't find out.

During interview, you would be asked "what can you do for us, why should we employ you, what makes you better than the rest" and an average Nigerian can't defend/express what is in his pali in describing how he/she could could help the company/organisation.

we are all learning and nobody should speak like authority.

This is why i hate the ZOOLOGICAL REPUBLIC OF NIGERIA.

@op, hmmmmmm, I tire for u o, dem force u go poly? Abi u no see jamb form b4 u buy poly jamb? If u are not satisfied, get a direct entry form & get admitted into 300L in any university. How can u call for equality wen d HND=300L?
And as for those who say d HND is more sound dan d Degree, good luck to u. Buh I knw those who designed d poly & university curriculum are not fools. Each of them was designed for specific purpose respectively. D poly for technical handling and d degree for management.

[size=18pt]The federal government should restructure polytechnic education in Nigeria by introducing a one year Bsc top up programme for HND Holders to make it at par with university Bsc programme:

OND - 2 Years (a 6 months industrial training is included to make the program 2 years)
HND - 2 Years
Bsc top up programme - I Year
after your one year Bsc top up programme you go for NYSC

All HND holders who have graduated from Nigerian polytechnics under the old structure can still come back to school to do a one year Bsc top up programme to give them a full Bachelor degree.[/size]

Nnamekus1:
In my opinion, the discrimination is baseless and borne out of bias. It's always good to talk from experience. Bsc is not better than HND because i have been into both systems. I was studying computer engineering at Michael okpara university before i had issues in the school and left.I was opportune to finish 200level before leaving the school for federal polytechnic nekede. But during my two years in the university, i knew virtually nothing as a prospective engineer. It's theory all the way and alternative to practicals that they give us in the name of practicals. I thought i was doing well until i came to poly nekede and my eyes opened. Most of the courses we did in 200L were treated in my ND1. Right now i have enough practical experience and i am not gainsaying. I am in ND2 now and i am happier here in the polytechnic than in the university. For those talking about course content not being the same, it is only on paper that they are not the same. All the courses i did while in the university has been treated here. For those who know about Federal poly nekede, you know that it's very close to FUTO; FUTO students pay some poly nekede students to write exams for them. Inasmuch as I'm not scared of the effects of the discrimination, I think it should stop. It doesn't matter weather you have HND of BSC. What matters is what you have upstairs. I think it's high time we stopped attaching so much importance to certificate as against the holder.

Bro, What are the issues that made you leave a university for a poly and are u still planning on going back to the university? For you to say u are happier in the poly means u are been economical with the truth bruv!

ladkud:


I want you to tell the courses in which engineering student are offering in university that polytechnic students didn't offer. for me, am a graduate of polytechnic and I have met my counterparts from university and discovered that they are just empty barrel. i sent my transcript to world education service in USA and the number of credit unit I offered is even more than B.sc. note I graduated with distinction in civil engineering. if u are graduate of civil engineering we can enter into academic duel.

Ignorance is bliss