LuckyLadolce:
Oh no! So u don't know u r the captive here? U r the one who really dont have freedom and will probably not av freedom forever if you persist in this manners of criticism. The problem of ppl like u is, ur mind is jst too shallow and this is why ur empty head think ur certificate will take u to a greater height than those who are illiterates or whoever did not av a university education. I will not even talk abt bill gate. Rather, i will talk abt a black man like me... DANGOTE. jst tell me the university he attended and i will give up on this matter. Until u Stop seeing life in just one direction, u may never av freedom.

Dangote studied in Egypt not even nigeria, Al-Azhar university Cairo studied Business Studies

engrlarex:






Dangote studied in Egypt not even nigeria, Al-Azhar university Cairo studied Business Studies

and that is what made him? I've red so much on his biography, and as much as I know, dangote did not use his cert to become what he is today .He used his potentials, talents, creativity and innovating mind. Until some of us start thinking beyond jst aving a cert. Nigeria may not move forward.

I always never liked polytechnic, am glad I never went to one. I feel sorry though for the discrimination meted out on them, my advice is for them to upgrade, I know a few pple who dumped their HND and went for a university degree afresh. May God help us.

op,u av spoken well,this is a very touch issue that always disturbed my mind,I finished my ND in poly bf proceed to uni,my broda to says d fact uni system is totally differ from poly system..polytechnics is were u c BSC graduate,HND graduate and even corps lecturing potential HND holders which can never happen in universities, also in polytechnics d highest grade/rank u might see in the whole department is Doctorate where profs lectures 100level students in universities, there are others reasons y u can't never equate polytechnics to universities...

Way Forward:
the government should scrapped the so called name POLYTECHNIC ND UNIVERSITY and gives a unified name just to indicate that both are higher institution,enriched polytechnic with lecturers with higher qualifications ( Minimum of Masters)...am sure with this no one will b able to discriminate btwn d certificates,but so far poly remains polytechnics and uni remains universities hmmmmm.....noting will change...regards.

tonytony208:
Your spelling of "dangerous" is enough to show you off as a poly student. Many of them cant speak or write simple and correct English; just like you have displayed here. Now, which polytechnic did you graduate from? Your school's standard must have been very poor! "Dangerious"? Queen Elizabeth must hear this!

I can't believe that pple with 'dumb minds' like you still exist! So, all University Graduates can speak and write simple and correct English? SMH for ur life!

Kolade354:
University graduate with this type of comment..........The future of Nigeria is not Bright with Daft people like you....................Can Nigeria University admit every jambite each year?.........There are some Polytechinic graduate that are better than you Dim-wit

Dnt take it personal.... I respect poly students for being sound practically..... Bt Dr's still a line drawn in btw....starting frm hw poly admit students.... I am nt sure of Dis, bt d popular notion is dat every Nigerian student dreams 1st of university... Den if it becomes difficult to get, poly comes in mind.... Just ask urself Y is dat.... So d discrimination did nt start at job level

Interesting.quote author=ladkud post=35494294]

I want you to tell the courses in which engineering student are offering in university that polytechnic students didn't offer. for me, am a graduate of polytechnic and I have met my counterparts from university and discovered that they are just empty barrel. i sent my transcript to world education service in USA and the number of credit unit I offered is even more than B.sc. note I graduated with distinction in civil engineering. if u are graduate of civil engineering we can enter into academic duel.[/quote]

2good:
I live and work in Western Europe with my BSc and MSc degree in Engineering and I can tell you that what you call discrimination is everywhere. As a HND holder here, there is a limit you can reach in your career except you go for further studies which will qualify you to apply for a more superior job. The solution to the problem is not to get a HND degree or go for a BSc degree and use it to apply for a superior role combined with your work experience.

I disagree with you, I live and work in England,London to be specific,I have a Bsc in Mech Engineering, I have never for once brought out or being asked to produced my BSc,all I have shown is proof of experience, in form of references. Most.Most Job adverts here would rather say Entry stage BSc,so you get trained, so your BSc- experience equals low rank job no high end jobs.So what country in the west where you talking about again?

BluePulse:


Yes bro. Just the complex issue. When we were in school, most of my friends already had that inferiority complex, and they were the ones that motivated me. Its really pathetic to live a life of inferior or lower self esteem.

off course,some are just too lazy also,its quite obvious that the polytechnic students are quite lagging behind in terms of social communications and expression but one can choose to develop his mental mode of reasoning by himself even without suppervision so as to enhance his/her mode of approach which can in turn reduce the propensity of people degrading him/her.....period!

bj4real38:
Interesting.quote author=ladkud post=35494294]

I want you to tell the courses in which engineering student are offering in university that polytechnic students didn't offer. for me, am a graduate of polytechnic and I have met my counterparts from university and discovered that they are just empty barrel. i sent my transcript to world education service in USA and the number of credit unit I offered is even more than B.sc. note I graduated with distinction in civil engineering. if u are graduate of civil engineering we can enter into academic duel.

I hope you start your own company instead of looking for work, Nigeria is Building,I envy you cos you chose the right Eng course, I wish I did that myself as start up in civil Eng is so easy than Mech Engin I did years back,Im now doing fastrack on civil Eng.good luck guy.

naijaspeak:
[size=18pt]The federal government should restructure polytechnic education in Nigeria by introducing a one year Bsc top up programme for HND Holders to make it at par with university Bsc programme:

OND - 2 Years (a 6 months industrial training is included to make the program 2 years)
HND - 2 Years
Bsc top up programme - I Year
after your one year Bsc top up programme you go for NYSC

All HND holders who have graduated from Nigerian polytechnics under the old structure can still come back to school to do a one year Bsc top up programme to give them a full Bachelor degree.[/size]

This is the most ridiculous so far.
You think this is date you are talking about that you want to top up.

As one poster said why shifting goal post mid game?

solonazzy:

Dnt take it personal.... I respect poly students for being sound practically..... Bt Dr's still a line drawn in btw....starting frm hw poly admit students.... I am nt sure of Dis, bt d popular notion is dat every Nigerian student dreams 1st of university... Den if it becomes difficult to get, poly comes in mind.... Just ask urself Y is dat.... So d discrimination did nt start at job level

The fact that the admission process to tertiary institute in Nigeria is a scam and flawed comes into mind,Depriving bright brains, in ways of cut off marks and school fees.there aint no equal opportunity,even if you have brains,Money might just be a limiting factor.

busoye19:
BSc and HND are not the same anywhere in the world. For those who are agitating that Bsc should be equal to HND in Nigeria. Try and apply for Masters program abroad with your HND certificate and see what will happen.
Stop all this your agitation and accept your fate or better still, get a Bsc certificate.
The curriculums and course contents are not the same, I went through both systems. They're not the same I repeat.
University is a research and Technological based institution, while Polytechnic is just a Technological based institution.
In the Polytechnic, HND/Bsc holder can become a senior lecturer/HOD, Msc a Rector. You may not pass through a Professor throughout your duration in school.
In the University, Bsc can only be assistant lecturer even with first class honors. HOD/Dean of facilities are Professors.
There is no basis for comparison pls.

You do not sound like a person who has worked or held any meaningful job for any length of time or has had any practical experience of the REAL world. The only university degrees, especially from Nigeria, that have any practical value are professional ones like Medicine,Pharmacy etc
Which "research" in Nigerian universities where you cheat like robbers? Please do not make me laugh.

When people get employed do you imagine the employer frames the degree and gazes lovingly at it?. The only person impressed by the degree is the holder. The employer is interested in how you will make money for him. Many so called graduates are BANK TELLERS in Nigeria. They count money and hand it out all day long. That is the level of secondary school graduates 20-30years ago.

Rather than spout hot air, learn to debate surely you learn that at university these days? The OP talked about discrimination against HnD and that it is unconstitutional both claims which are absurd in my opinion .The starting point would be to ask what he means by "discriminate". Before joining any argument first seek to understand what is being said and always be willing to change your opinions. So far on both sides there are just egos ,no listening,no understanding and no learning.

My take on the issue is this any degree HnD or BsC in a non technical field is a statement to an employer that this person is nt an idiott and hopefully with some luck you can train him to be of value to you. In Nigeria historically candidates with lower grades were drawn to polytechnics and they were not as well funded but some polytechnics offered technical/specialisto courses unavailable in university. There are also professional certificates e.g ACCA etc. Ultimately education is a lifelong process and those making so much noise about the superiority of degrees reveal one thing they have little experience of the workplace .

engrlarex:
u can't understand d significance wider margin between Polytechnic and university if u didn't attend the two. dia r several Polytechnic students who graduates with a distinction strong one for that matter, applied DE to university and r struggling to graduate with 2:2. I attended both federal Polytechnic and university and I kw d difference it's just like comparing 0 to Infinity or comparing death to sleeping. even though dose was not privileged to attend universities kw dat dey cant match university graduate in all ramifications. dia will be discrimination by d two till jesus comes. the bottom line is Owonikoko.

While I agreed with your assertion that many distinction graduates from poly find it hard to graduate with 2.2, at the university, I will equally tell you that there are some people who find it hard to graduate with 2.1 at the poly but later graduated with first class in the university. It all depends on the type of lecturers you passed through and your type of person. Many lecturers in the polytechnics are very poor academically, if you can't give them what they gave you, you won't graduate with good grade. They have narrow knowledge of the subjects they teach and as such, if you provide them with most recent answer to their examination questions, they won't be able to comprehend what you wrote and they end up giving you half of the score or even less. But a university professor won't act that way. No professor will encourage student to just cram their hand outs, they even encourage students to go to the Internet to get the most recent idea about any given topic. This is where the university is better than the polytechnic system.

However, there are still some poly students who do not mind the score, and went out of their way to seek knowledge outside the half baked hand outs from their lecturers. What we are saying is that the system should allow such people to succeed. They should be recognised by their employers. They should be given the needed support and encouragement to grow instead of this baseless discrepancy

luthorcorp:
off course,some are just too lazy also,its quite obvious that the polytechnic students are quite lagging behind in terms of social communications and expression but one can choose to develop his mental mode of reasoning by himself even without suppervision so as to enhance his/her mode of approach which can in turn reduce the propensity of people degrading him/her.....period!

Well said LuthorCorp! Pls regards to Lex...#smile.

erico2k2:

I disagree with you, I live and work in England,London to be specific,I have a Bsc in Mech Engineering, I have never for once brought out or being asked to produced my BSc,all I have shown is proof of experience, in form of references. Most.Most Job adverts here would rather say Entry stage BSc,so you get trained, so your BSc- experience equals low rank job no high end jobs.So what country in the west where you talking about again?

What is the entry level requirement of most entry level management jobs in Europe? BSc or MSc. In my current company a HND holder cannot rise beyond level five where as a BSc/ MSc holder can rise all the way to the maximum level which is an 8. You have to upgrade as a HND holder to go beyond level 5 even in the UK business unit. Engineering jobs requiring 10 years experience still state BSc as minimum educational experience except it is a position for a technologist where HND is the requirement. I don't know the kind of job you do but I work for an oil company and I have worked in atleast 3 European countries (Denmark, Norway and the UK(Aberdeen)) and I pretty much know what I am talking about. You cannot design a system if you are not an Engineer where I work and the maximum you can get is a field position.
Try get into any oil company, engineering company or a major banks as a management trainee in Europe and see if they will require less than a BSc degree. Also don't forget that it is the management trainee that will rise up to become the CEO in the future with more years of experience.

Damfostopper:
Polytechnic and university aint d same...so dnt expect Bsc n Hnd to be d same.....if u no like am...go open university of polytechnic na

. U just pass through school. Odeh

What a pity! when will Nigeria youths will learn to contribute to an argument constructively rather than insulting personality? Being holder of HND or BSC, does that guarantee u a job? This is high time for we youths to think ahead and get ourselves out of this mess rather than exhibiting superiority complex on mere social tools....when some youths like u is up there living big irrespective of what certificate they hold because they belong.

2good:


What is the entry level requirement of most entry level management jobs in Europe? BSc or MSc. In my current company a HND holder cannot rise beyond level five where as a BSc/ MSc holder can rise all the way to the maximum level which is an 8. You have to upgrade as a HND holder to go beyond level 5 even in the UK business unit. Engineering jobs requiring 10 years experience still state BSc as minimum educational experience except it is a position for a technologist where HND is the requirement. I don't know the kind of job you do but I work for an oil company and I have worked in atleast 3 European countries (Denmark, Norway and the UK(Aberdeen)) and I pretty much know what I am talking about. You cannot design a system if you are not an Engineer where I work and the maximum you can get is a field position.
Try get into any oil company, engineering company or a major banks as a management trainee in Europe and see if they will require less than a BSc degree. Also don't forget that it is the management trainee that will rise up to become the CEO in the future with more years of experience.

There are no HND polytechnics anymore in the UK .I suggest you inform yourself better on the Binary Divide and the relevant legislation. You seem to be implying that where HNDs exist they ARE NOT ENGINEERS,is that your position?

erico2k2:

I hope you start your own company instead of looking for work, Nigeria is Building,I envy you cos you chose the right Eng course, I wish I did that myself as start up in civil Eng is so easy than Mech Engin I did years back,Im now doing fastrack on civil Eng.good luck guy.

working for govt. and pp am building on that. Mech eng'g is not bad too. no any eng'g course is wasted it is just in Nigeria that didn't know the bearing is going. because of the corrupt people Nigeria.

tonytony208:
Your spelling of "dangerous" is enough to show you off as a poly student. Many of them cant speak or write simple and correct English; just like you have displayed here. Now, which polytechnic did you graduate from? Your school's standard must have been very poor! "Dangerious"? Queen Elizabeth must hear this!

. Guy? 1 simple mistake does not mean u should condemn him or poly graduates. I av seen many uni graduates dat can not express themselves. So pls Grow. English is not our language what matters most is knwin wat u study.

omonnakoda:
There are no HND institutions anymore in the UK .I suggest you inform yourself better on the Binary Divide and the relevant legislation. You seem to be implying that where HNDs exist they ARE NOT ENGINEERS,is that your position?

I know that city and guilds in the UK have an HND equivalent certificate. I also know that most EU countries have either a direct HND program or an equivalent degree. They might have different terminologies for these degrees but the idea is all thesame.
Concerning your second question, yes i am telling you that HND and BSc degree are not thesame. In the Netherlands where I did my MSc, they have 3 different higher institutions after high school with the lowest training people to be artisans, the next training people to be HND holder and the highest training people to be BSc/ MSc holder. Also only about 15% of Dutch citizens go to university to get a degree. the vast majority goes to artisan school next to polytechnic and then university. Thesame system is also used in Germany and several other EU countries.
At entry level stage, they all have different job grades which translate to different salary level. Even Shell Netherlands employ only MSc holders now as minimum requirement to be an Engineer. An HND holder in Shell cannot design a system until they upgrade to a BSc.

I have a simple question: why are the JAMB cutoffs different? Because the requirements are different and not equal. How can you expect the qualifications to be the same?

Jakara:


Imokay, you spoke fine and I must commend you for a constructive point. My question is, where in Nigerian law or constitution is it written that you pay HND lower than B.Sc or that Nigerians should discriminate among the two certificate holders. The same group of B.Sc holder that brought about this discrimination for their selfish interest, are the same people that projects corruption in Nigeria.
Nigeria should do away with this selfish interest and look for intellectuals & ideas that could save Nigeria from its state.

BluePulse:


Well said LuthorCorp! Pls regards to Lex...#smile.

#lex:you wanna know why I'm running?
#lionel:yes please tell me
#lex:coz its something i actually have to work for
#lionel:well yes and your noble efforts include paying hired guns to dig up informations about the kents that could incriminate and destroy them uh?
#so much for your fatherly advice dad.....

2good:


I know that city and guides in the UK have an HND equivalent certificate. I also know that most EU countries have either a direct HND program or an equivalent degree. They might have different terminologies for these degrees but the idea is all thesame.
Concerning your second question, yes i am telling you that HND and BSc degree are not thesame. In the Netherlands where I did my MSc, they have 3 different higher institutions after high school with the lowest training people to be artisans, the next training people to be HND holder and the highest training people to be BSc/ MSc holder. Also only about 15% of Dutch citizens go to university to get a degree. the vast majority goes to artisan school next to polytechnic and then university. Thesame system is also used in Germany and several other EU countries.
At entry level stage, they all have different job grades which translate to different salary level. Even Shell Netherlands employ only MSc holders now as minimum requirement to be an Engineer. An HND holder in Shell cannot design a system until they upgrade to a BSc.

Well I did not ask if they are the same that was not my question.

Moving on
Is the Nigerian HND the same as the Ducth or German HND

Also is a Nigerian Engineering Bsc The same as a Dutch or German one?

lonelydora:


Which Engineering world? That groundnut oil mill in your backyard is what you call engineering world? Young man, there's difference between a technician, which you are, and an Engineer.

Well I'm not here to banter words with you.

2good:


What is the entry level requirement of most entry level management jobs in Europe? BSc or MSc. In my current company a HND holder cannot rise beyond level five where as a BSc/ MSc holder can rise all the way to the maximum level which is an 8. You have to upgrade as a HND holder to go beyond level 5 even in the UK business unit. Engineering jobs requiring 10 years experience still state BSc as minimum educational experience except it is a position for a technologist where HND is the requirement. I don't know the kind of job you do but I work for an oil company and I have worked in atleast 3 European countries (Denmark, Norway and the UK(Aberdeen)) and I pretty much know what I am talking about. You cannot design a system if you are not an Engineer where I work and the maximum you can get is a field position.
Try get into any oil company, engineering company or a major banks as a management trainee in Europe and see if they will require less than a BSc degree. Also don't forget that it is the management trainee that will rise up to become the CEO in the future with more years of experience.

Bro where you have worked is not the Issue rather where you where employed is the issue, I will post three job vacancies in the Uk all mgt positions, you can point out the entry level requirements just give me a sec.
see this
http://www.totaljobs.com/JobSearch/JobDetails.aspx?JobId=62886867

ayoolanr:


I get your point...So you're are saying part of their job description requires them to put their lives on the line for people and country....In that light since the ultimate performance measure is to die on duty, then paper qualification such as Bsc/Hnd should carry equal credence? I totally agree with you!!!

Like seriously? . Do we then say that mlitary officers and recruit soldiers who have spent the same number of years in service should earn the same salary?

perryy:


Don't mind the half educated fellow. I asked him the meaning of simple and correct English. I am a proud polytechnics graduate and a self made millionaire, I never allowed this discrimination to stop my dream. I am a victim of the mad discrimination. where I worked , I did all the writings, but because of my certificate, I was left in situ for eight years despite many recommendations from my immediate boss who "knows" my worth. During all the trainings organised by the the company, I always showed exceptional attributes to the admiration of all,yet no promotion just because of the useless dichotomy between BSC and HND. Many polytechnics graduates are actually bad, same with many university students / graduates. The best test of graduates intelligence ought not to be the 'paper' they wield but their performances in aptitude tests and if already employed, on the job tests . It is saddening that a colleague of yours who cannot even answer a query without your help is two levels ahead of you all because of his/her paper qualifications. In the office, you are being adored and admired by your colleagues by virtue of your intelligence, yet management won't recognise your worth because of your HND. Sad!

Well, while I won't call for outright equalisation of HND and BSc, I believe there should be remedial examinations for HND holders, that whoever is it that passed it, will have their HND converted to BSc. With this, the injustice that have been done to people like us, who have worked our finger sore to educate and distinguished ourselves and for one reason or the other, found ourselves in the polytechnics, will be remedied.

That is still tantamount to shifting the goal post. There is a way in. Follow it. Not some short cut at the end of the road.

Interesting writeup though

tonytony208:
Your spelling of "dangerous" is enough to show you off as a poly student. Many of them cant speak or write simple and correct English; just like you have displayed here. Now, which polytechnic did you graduate from? Your school's standard must have been very poor! "Dangerious"? Queen Elizabeth must hear this!

.......you're just an unfortunate asshole......i'm sure you are one of those who supports the discrimination of polytechnic institutions...

luthorcorp:
#lex:you wanna know why I'm running?
#lionel:yes please tell me
#lex:coz its something i actually have to work for
#lionel:well yes and your noble efforts include paying hired guns to dig up informations about the kents that could incriminate and destroy them uh?
#so much for your fatherly advice dad.....

Lolsssssss!!!

"You don't wound an enemy you cannot kill."
Lionel Luthor...

bettercreature:
It can never be equal,some University students are more brilliant than POLYTECHNIC lecturers
or a situation where Youth Corpers are teaching HND 2 students
or a situation where HND student is converted to a lecturer after graduation
truth must be told,its not the same

...''SOME UNIVERSITY STUDENT ARE MORE BRILLIANT THAN POLYTECHNIC LECTURERS''...........Are you one of them?.............poor sense of reasoning!!