Goshen360:


vooks,

Please follow context! The Corinthians are plainly abusing spiritual gifts even in worship gathering......hence the statement:

19 Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

I have taught on the abuse of tongues in our churches in the past. It is only wrong to speak\pray in unknown tongues in churches (worship gathering) but praying\speaking in unknown tongues is not wrong as a spiritual gift!

Agreed 101%

This is why I wonder why some are shunning the book and it is all about restoring order to the chaos that Pentecostalism is

dmandy:


1. Granted, people speak fake tongues. Which is why I said, its not tongues that work miracles.

2. Wrong, the power of God is rather manifested in the gifts of the Holy spirit. Are you for real? You need the gift to attract the one giving the gifts. Man, you need to start reading.

3. Speaking in tongues activates your faith.. it edifies you not the power of God.

4. The Holy Ghost lives inside of you, yes. And the Holy ghost speaks when He want to speak. And He is the one who speaks not you.

hahahahahahhaah...your no2 shows ignorance of how the gifts of the spirit operates....your no3 is logically correct but spiritually inaccurate.. I don't know who you are or where you are from,but I am sure you don't have any relationship with the holy spirit..are you even born again?

Jeromejnr:


Well, That is why you don't have the gift.

Who told you I don't ?

The problem with you and your kind is you can't handle biblical counsel without personal attacks.
1 Corinthians 5:2 (KJV)
And ye are puffed up

Why are you puffed up? Do you imagine spiritual gifts to me some sort of accomplishment you go flashing infront of others?

dmandy:


No sir,

Lets go there, so you can show the world how truthful you can be.

Are you sure?

I really don't have time for debate. In fact I told myself to stop it since it was unprofitable.
That was why when you and your friend were both attacking someone recently, I didn't even involve myself. I just let you guys have your field day.

vooks:

Who told you I don't ?

The problem with you and your kind is you can't handle biblical counsel without personal attacks.
1 Corinthians 5:2 (KJV)
And ye are puffed up

Why are you puffed up? Do you imagine spiritual gifts to me some sort of accomplishment you go flashing infront of others?

So you speak and you don't want others to speak. Yet you share a book that talks down on the gift.

How hypocritical.

misreal:
hahahahahahhaah...your no2 shows ignorance of how the gifts of the spirit operates....your no3 is logically correct but spiritually inaccurate.. I don't know who you are or where you are from,but I am sure you don't have any relationship with the holy spirit..are you even born again?

I don't understand why some Pentecostals imagine spiritual gifts are a mark of spirituality or maturity.
Many like me received the gift of tongues within 24 hours of receiving Christ. Tongues are no maturity. Maturity is measured by the fruit of the Spirit

misreal:
hahahahahahhaah...your no2 shows ignorance of how the gifts of the spirit operates....your no3 is logically correct but spiritually inaccurate.. I don't know who you are or where you are from,but I am sure you don't have any relationship with the holy spirit..are you even born again?

Okay, you came back.

I love your tactis.

You can tell that I am not born again. I laugh you again.

My no3 is logically correct, but spiritually wrong. waoh... He that speaks in an unknown tongue edifies himself, but he that prophesies edifies the congregation cor 14:4

my no2 wrong, woah... You indeed have a relationship with the holy spirit who told you that without speaking in tongues miracles cannot be wrought. okay sir. There are different kinds of gifts. But they are all given to believers by the same Spirit. 5 There are different ways to serve. But they all come from the same Lord. 6 There are different ways the Spirit works. But the same God is working in all these ways and in all people. Cor 12:4. God gives the gifts, the gifts don't give God. smh

You don't know me, yet it is not necessary.

Jeromejnr:


So you speak and you don't want others to speak. Yet you share a book that talks down on the gift.

How hypocritical.

The author left the Tongues Movement not abandoned the gift. If only you could read instead of pomposity and jumping into conclusions, the world would be a better place.

Please take your time and read this book.

Tell me,
Do you allow uninterpreted tongues in your church?

vooks:

I don't understand why some Pentecostals imagine spiritual gifts are a mark of spirituality or maturity.
Many like me received the gift of tongues within 24 hours of receiving Christ. Tongues are no maturity. Maturity is measured by the fruit of the Spirit

So can you please tell us how to bear fruit if we don't edify/build up our spirit man?

All this back and forth-ing because someone recommended a book and then someone else who wouldn't bother to check out the book criticised it. I wonder how many pages this can go on for. Meanwhile everyone is the greatest culprit of the crimes they accuse others of.

Jeromejnr:


So can you please tell us how to bear fruit if we don't edify/build up our spirit man?

Any intelligent Christian would readily appreciate that gifts are no mark of maturity. Baby Christians can equally receive the gifts. And they remain gifts so I don't know why you go around bragging like you earned them

Jeromejnr:


Are you sure?

I really don't have time for debate. In fact I told myself to stop it since it was unprofitable.
That was why when you and your friend were both attacking someone recently, I didn't even involve myself. I just let you guys have your field day.

Of course I am sure, lets go there. show mw how honest you can be.

I have had some lengthy discussion with you earlier, you should know how I attack someone.

There is no debate anywhere, you raised that 'ant' issue here, quoting me wrongly and knowing that it has nothing to do with the thread.

Why don't you tell me where I attacked someone? I won't do that. It is not necessary.

vooks:

The author left the Tongues Movement not abandoned the gift. If only you could read instead of pomposity and jumping into conclusions, the world would be a better place.

Please take your time and read this book.

Tell me,
Do you allow uninterpreted tongues in your church?

Oga, go and read the book again.

Tongues and interpretation for edifying the beleivers is different from the personal prayer language tongues.

The problem is you and guys like this combine the two together into one and say thongs the bible didn't say.

dmandy:


I have had some lengthy discussion with you earlier, you should know how I attack someone.

There is no debate anywhere, you raised that 'ant' issue here, quoting me wrongly and knowing that it has nothing to do with the thread.

Why don't you tell me where I attacked someone? I won't do that. It is not necessary.

In that your Mary thread.

But dude, forget that.

Jeromejnr:


In that your Mary thread.

But dude, forget that.

Really? which post #? You can just accuse me and tell me to forget that? Like seriously?

Jeromejnr:


Oga, go and read the book again.

Tongues and interpretation for edifying the beleivers is different from the personal prayer language tongues.

The problem is you and guys like this combine the two together into one and say thongs the bible didn't say.

This is an artificial distinction that has no scriptural basis.

There is ONLY one gift of tongues not two. Whether praying, praising, or worshiping in tongues, they should be strictly PRIVATE unless there is interpretation

Exactly how is a loud prayer offered in congregation 'private'?

vooks:

Any intelligent Christian would readily appreciate that gifts are no mark of maturity. Baby Christians can equally receive the gifts. And they remain gifts so I don't know why you go around bragging like you earned them

Stop twisting my words brother. No one said you need to be mature to have the gift.

If you were spiritually discerning, you won't have put up a thread like this. Knowing there are baby Christians still struggling with the issue of tongues. Do you think. Most of them will read the book?

When they see the title, they might jump to conclusion that tongues is wrong or something.

When you do things, you think of others.

vooks:


I did not say tongues can't be understood, I merely pointed to the current practice of total disregard to Paul instructions; uninterpreted tongues have no place in public worship. Does your church follow this?

[/b]

You're right! I have also taught in the past, one of my threads - the abuse of tongues in the public worship place if not interpreted. I don't do that in church.....I did as a child like the Corinthians but when I grew in the word, I put away childish things.

vooks:


The language was understandable by the Diasporan Jews

Correct!

vooks:


They are the same.

No, they're not the same: The tongues spoken on Pentecost was a "sign" tongues - they never learnt a language they spoke with which people understood.

b - The tongues Paul taught in 1 Corinthians was a "praying" tongues -

New International Version
For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.

New Living Translation
For if you have the ability to speak in tongues, you will be talking only to God, since people won't be able to understand you. You will be speaking by the power of the Spirit, but it will all be mysterious.

English Standard Version
For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.

Highlight: The tongues spoken on Pentecost was spoken to MEN and it was understood but this tongue here is NOT unto MEN but to GOD because NO ONE understand the speaker. So, one is a sign tongue and the other is a praying tongue by the enabling of the Spirit.

vooks:


Please note Paul instructions
1 Corinthians 14:18 (ESV)
I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19 Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue

That verse is an instruction for correction sir. It has nothing to do with verse 2 of I Corinthians 14. As a matter of truth, Paul said, if one is to pray\speak to God in prayer by tongues, they should do so in their private NOT in public like all this non-sense going on the our public worship places where all the whole church just burst into tongues and the problem lies with most people that should still be learning under the tutor of the Spirit but are in hurry to mount the pulpit, call themselves Pastors and preaching unbaked messages.....Lord help His Church!

Jeromejnr:


Stop twisting my words brother. No one said you need to be mature to have the gift.

Then we are in agreement. Spiritual gifts should not be a source of pride. It is Holy Spirit who gives them, hence the name 'gifts'

If you were spiritually discerning, you won't have put up a thread like this. Knowing there are baby Christians still struggling with the issue of tongues. Do you think. Most of them will read the book?

If anybody baby or dinosaur like yourself jump into conclusions WITHOUT reading the book, they need deliverance

When they see the title, they might jump to conclusion that tongues is wrong or something.

When you do things, you think of others.

Books are written to be read. The cover is not the book. I can take cows to the river but I can't drink the water for them

vooks:

Who told you I don't ?

The problem with you and your kind is you can't handle biblical counsel without personal attacks.
1 Corinthians 5:2 (KJV)
And ye are puffed up

Why are you puffed up? Do you imagine spiritual gifts to me some sort of accomplishment you go flashing infront of others?

relax!

vooks:

This is an artificial distinction that has no scriptural basis.

There is ONLY one gift of tongues not two. Whether praying, praising, or worshiping in tongues, they should be strictly PRIVATE unless there is interpretation

You can't know if you've not experienced it Mr. Man.

There are people who spoke in the tongues prayer language before God gave them the gift for edification of believers that comes with interpretation. Not all have the latter. That was Paul said, do all speak? And do all interprete? Which is to show you it was the ministry gift he spoke about.

The 120 disciples in the upper room, where all of them interpreting their tongues? Cornelius and his household. Did they?

Paul wrote that letter because there was confusion on the issue.

Jeromejnr:


In that your Mary thread.

But dude, forget that.

I hope this is part of the attack?

vooks:

Then we are in agreement. Spiritual gifts should not be a source of pride. It is Holy Spirit who gives them, hence the name 'gifts'


If anybody baby or dinosaur like yourself jump into conclusions WITHOUT reading the book, they need deliverance

When they see the title, they might jump to conclusion that tongues is wrong or something.


Books are written to be read. The cover is not the book. I can take cows to the river but I can't drink the water for them

All you have to do is take a survey.

Most of the people on this thread now, thinks you don't believe in tongues.

Goshen360:


You're right! I have also taught in the past, one of my threads - the abuse of tongues in the public worship place if not interpreted. I don't do that in church.....I did as a child like the Corinthians but when I grew in the word, I put away childish things.

Immanuel!

Correct!

Am glad we agree

No, they're not the same: The tongues spoken on Pentecost was a "sign" tongues - they never learnt a language they spoke with which people understood.

True

b - The tongues Paul taught in 1 Corinthians was a "praying" tongues -

New International Version
For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.

New Living Translation
For if you have the ability to speak in tongues, you will be talking only to God, since people won't be able to understand you. You will be speaking by the power of the Spirit, but it will all be mysterious.

English Standard Version
For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.

Here you make a FALSE distinction.
Study at the MANY things tongues in Corinthians are used for
1. Speaking to God
1 Corinthians 14:2 (KJV)
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

2. Praying, 3. Singing and 4. Blessing
1 Corinthians 14:14-15 (KJV)
For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also (16) Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

Next, study the Pentecost tongues. Were they speaking to men or God?

Acts 2:8-11 (KJV)
And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God
Sounds like they were praising not addressing men.

So, how are these tongues different from those of Corinthians?

And note
1 Corinthians 14:22 (KJV)
Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe

How can the tongues of Corinthians be 'to God' and not 'to man' yet they are supposed to be sign for men?

Highlight: The tongues spoken on Pentecost was spoken to MEN and it was understood but this tongue here is NOT unto MEN but to GOD because NO ONE understand the speaker. So, one is a sign tongue and the other is a praying tongue by the enabling of the Spirit.

No, they were praising, speaking wondrous works. Where do you get the notion that they were spoken TO men?

That verse is an instruction for correction sir. It has nothing to do with verse 2 of I Corinthians 14. As a matter of truth, Paul said, if one is to pray\speak to God in prayer by tongues, they should do so in their private NOT in public like all this non-sense going on the our public worship places where all the whole church just burst into tongues and the problem lies with most people that should still be learning under the tutor of the Spirit but are in hurry to mount the pulpit, call themselves Pastors and preaching unbaked messages.....Lord help His Church!

Uninterpreted tongues have no room in public worship. That's pretty clear. There are two solutions
1. Get interpretation
2. Pray/speak at home

Jeromejnr:


You can't know if you've not experienced it Mr. Man.

Show me the distinction from the scriptures or zip it.
Tongues MUST be interpreted or kept private

There are people who spoke in the tongues prayer language before God gave them the gift for edification of believers that comes with interpretation. Not all have the latter. That was Paul said, do all speak? And do all interprete? Which is to show you it was the ministry gift he spoke about.

No interpretation, no public tongues. So simple. This is Holy Spirit speaking not me

The 120 disciples in the upper room, where all of them interpreting their tongues? Cornelius and his household. Did they?

No they did not. But we have the revelation in Corinthians that there should be no tongues without interpretation. Should we ignore that?

The disciples after crucifixion were downcast and they all forgot Jesus had said he would resurrect. Should we live like them in unbelief or should we not rather rejoice like they did when Jesus resurrected and appeared on them?

Paul wrote that letter because there was confusion on the issue.

Holy Spirit says
1 Corinthians 14:18 (KJV)
I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: 19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

5 words understood by all are better than 1 million words nobody including the speaker understands

Jeromejnr:


All you have to do is take a survey.

Most of the people on this thread now, thinks you don't believe in tongues.

There is a book. Books are not supposed to be admired but to be read

Goshen360:


relax!

Thank you for the rebuke

vooks:

Show me the distinction from the scriptures or zip it.
Tongues MUST be interpreted or kept private

I really don't have time to write.

Listen to Goshen360. He has put it forth.

Jeromejnr:


I really don't have time to write.

Listen to Goshen360. He has put it forth.

You can't substantiate. Those are traditions of men that void the word of God

vooks:

You can't substantiate. Those are traditions of men that void the word of God

God help you.

Jeromejnr:


God help you.

Amen
God help you too. Or you are all too knowledgeable and you don't need help, right?

vooks:

Amen
God help you too. Or you are all too knowledgeable and you don't need help, right?

I need help bro.

I would have gone through scriptures with you but no time. I told you how this works in experience.
Summary:
There is a tongue as a sign to unbelievers that comes as God wills. E.g. Speaking in language to foreign locals. And you don't know what you said but they do. And also the one for edification of the body of Christ which comes with interpretation either from you or another person. This comes as God wills.

There is a prayer and worship one, you can start it as you will and can also be in others peoples languages or tongues of angels. This is spoken to God and not men. And received at the baptism.
This was the one Jesus said, in My Name they will do.

The Corinthian church messed everything up and mixed it. So Paul had to correct it.

I don tire.