Henry120:
The government, especially in Africa does not grow anything. They can't run or develop a business........ hell, they've can't even run a proper government.

The private sector is the only way forward.

No offence to Ghana, or the individual that built that, but that's simply not good enough. If we want to be self-sustaining we must learn to produce better more practical military equipments.

very true.... the days of 'inventing' are over... if you want to build an equipment, you build top-of-the-line..

nobody wants to see junks anymore.

Patchesagain:


According to a very controversial newspaper that sells primarily to a certain middle-aged, pale skinned and Afrikaans demographic.

Basically a more sophisticated Sahara Reporters.



The phrasing of the sentance alone indicates that they actually dont know how many we have. If they knew we had 9 they would have said so, but they dont, and they wont put a specific number in writing because they would get sued out of buisness.

Rapport, unfortunately mate, is usually accurate with its reporting around the SANDF. Darren Olivier from African Defense Review also confirmed the report is accurate and I believe they were first with the story around our troops in Sudan being threatened over al Bashir. Not being an expert I can't say how this in anyway threatens our air capability in SADC, but a few experts are of the opinion sending all of them to Russia is odd and unprecedented. Anyway I believe more tough news is ahead if our government insists on under funding the SANDF at 1% of GDP, its treasonous almost. In any case I hope there's more than 9 Hawk pilots to augment 2 squadron.

...

frumentius:


APOLOGIES: my informant got details wrong - fog of war and all that. It was a platoon against 2 companies - one company at the ambush site which the platoon successfully repulsed, and another company deployed as a blocking force further down the road.
Sequence of events according to official reports:

1) Due to the increasing number of ambushes on these UN convoys (travelling on pre-determined routes meaning the initiative is always with the attackers), our SANDF motorised platoons have been beefed up by the addition of augmented weapons sections (as per our doctrine). OPSEC means no details, so all I can say is some 20mm cannon, more .50 cal MGs, 40mm AGLs, 60 & 80 mm mortars and every rifle group containing a DMR (need I say all this was locally-produced Denel materiel?);

2) 8SAI, which is the battalion currently deployed in Darfur, is normally a Mechanised Battalion, which means they've been trained and are proficient to handle the 20mm cannon usually mounted on their Ratels and in this case mounted on some of the Mambas;

3) The rebel commander was either incompetent or didn't have enough time to prepare the ambush and deploy his forces: a company of infrantry, supported by 4 PKM-armed technicals was deployed;

4) The SANDF platoon LT, observing this, rightly concluded there was waiting for his men a more fortified ambush site further down the road with more heavier-armed technicals and infantry;

5) Superior training and tactics meant he took 3 crucial decisions:
--a) counter and disrupt the ambush at the present site; then
--b) establish effective defensive positions from the numerically superior rebel company facing him, and raise the alert for relief from Mellit FOB, 2 hours away by road;
--c) deployed some of his Mambas and weapons section to the high ground to his eastern flank to deny manoeuvre to the enemy's better equipped reserve technicals and company;

6) It took 2 hours for the QRF to reach the platoon by road, having fought off a company, sustained 1 KIA, 4 WIA and kept the enemy's more superior reserve out of the fight.

My gripe remains this: the entire UN/AU mission in Darfur is only allowed by the Sudan govt 8 transport helicopters. They can only transport UN civilians and police. They are inferior MI-8 crap as opposed to the Oryx, and not allowed to be armed.
The enemy evaporated once they spotted the QRF after 2 hours, which would have been minutes if we had Oryx there, and saved lives. But neither the SA govt nor the UN/AU care about ordinary soldiers' lives.

Great stuff from our troops! Who time and again show mettle, ingenuity and bravery under fire with little support. Just curious however how much of this is purely a Sudanese problem mate? I seem to recall General Vusi Masondo saying funding was a bit of an issue for some of our external missions esp in Sudan?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Nfvfw9R8Is

gees9:




Rapport, unfortunately mate, is usually accurate with its reporting around the SANDF. Darren Olivier from African Defense Review also confirmed the report is accurate and I believe they were first with the story around our troops in Sudan being threatened over al Bashir. Not being an expert I can't say how this in anyway threatens our air capability in SADC, but a few experts are of the opinion sending all of them to Russia is odd and unprecedented. Anyway I believe more tough news is ahead if our government insists on under funding the SANDF at 1% of GDP, its treasonous almost. In any case I hope there's more than 9 Hawk pilots to augment 2 squadron.

Threatens our air defence capability how?

lionel4power:


very true.... the days of 'inventing' are over... if you want to build an equipment, you build top-of-the-line..

nobody wants to see junks anymore.

His experience in military equipment is minimum but on civilian product, Kantanka company is really good at it.

MikeCZAR:
Threatens our air defence capability how?

Less pilots for the Gripens means less Gripens in the air I assume?

gh
http://www.dw.com/en/think-big-cars-made-in-ghana/a-18717116

gees9:


Less pilots for the Gripens means less Gripens in the air I assume?

Air defence isn't about jets only.

Even with our current pilot numbers, no sub Saharan African country threatens us.

worry about the sensors. like the delayed project chutney.

Obostone:
gh
http://www.dw.com/en/think-big-cars-made-in-ghana/a-18717116

Can we stick to military pics pls? Ghana military pics are rare and i very much appreciate your effort. We don't just want the thread to be derailed pls

gees9:


Great stuff from our troops! Who time and again show mettle, ingenuity and bravery under fire with little support. Just curious however how much of this is purely a Sudanese problem mate? I seem to recall General Vusi Masondo saying funding was a bit of an issue for some of our external missions esp in Sudan?

Funding for the Sudan mission used to be a problem back when it was an exclusive AU mission. It would take forever for SA to get re-imbursed. As things stand now, the Sudanese govt basically dictates to the UN and AU what equipment can be brought in for UNAMID. SA has a battalion there, in 3 bases far apart, equipped with Mambas and Casspir for protected mobility. JOps would dearly love to deploy some Ratels to handle technicals armed with 23mm etc, at least 4 Oryx for QRFand medevac, but the Sudanese govt won't allow this.
Every single contact in Darfur, we've been outnumbered and out-gunned, and only the skill and training of our guys has saved our bacon. The militia formerly supported by the govt have been left to fend for themselves, with most becoming bandits. I fear one of these days our luck will run out with catastrophic results. Our govt should say no to the UN and AU if troops are to be deployed under-strength.

And people don't realise the strain on the SANDF. For every battalion deployed externally, there's 2 at home that are not available, according to our doctrine: 1 that's come back and whose members then go off to courses in terms of their career projections, and 1 that's in pre-deployment training to rotate. So with 2 battalions in the DRC and Darfur, there's 4 at home not available.

MikeCZAR:
Air defence isn't about jets only.
Even with current numbers almost pilot numbers, no sub Saharan African country threatens us.

worry about the sensors. like the delayed project chutney.

Thanks I wasn't familiar with that so this combined with GBADS should solve that gap. However losing pilots like we are should be a cause for concern in the interim.

frumentius:

Funding for the Sudan mission used to be a problem back when it was an exclusive AU mission. It would take forever for SA to get re-imbursed. As things stand now, the Sudanese govt basically dictates to the UN and AU what equipment can be brought in for UNAMID. SA has a battalion there, in 3 bases far apart, equipped with Mambas and Casspir for protected mobility. JOps would dearly love to deploy some Ratels to handle technicals armed with 23mm etc, at least 4 Oryx for QRFand medevac, but the Sudanese govt won't allow this.
Every single contact in Darfur, we've been outnumbered and out-gunned, and only the skill and training of our guys has saved our bacon. The militia formerly supported by the govt have been left to fend for themselves, with most becoming bandits. I fear one of these days our luck will run out with catastrophic results. Our govt should say no to the UN and AU if troops are to be deployed under-strength.
And people don't realise the strain on the SANDF. For every battalion deployed externally, there's 2 at home that are not available, according to our doctrine: 1 that's come back and whose members then go off to courses in terms of their career projections, and 1 that's in pre-deployment training to rotate. So with 2 battalions in the DRC and Darfur, there's 4 at home not available.

It is odd how the SANDF are always in the thick of it when we are just one of the troop contributing nations and on numbers purely, number 5. Unless if reporting on other incidents aren't reaching us. I think the Sudanese convoy passing the SA base should've been the last straw for our gov, but alas the troops on the ground must bear the brunt.

Bm-30 rockets with cluster munitions laying the "moderates" terrorists to waste in Idlib. Lessons for my African brothers.

MikeCZAR:
Air defence isn't about jets only.

Even with our current pilot numbers, no sub Saharan African country threatens us.

worry about the sensors. like the delayed project chutney.

this is the problem with south africans ,you keep comparing yourself with sub-sahara countries. dont you think one day you will be called to protect your fellow African from an external enemy e.g turkey,france,U.S,china,egypt e.t.c

frumentius:


Funding for the Sudan mission used to be a problem back when it was an exclusive AU mission. It would take forever for SA to get re-imbursed. As things stand now, the Sudanese govt basically dictates to the UN and AU what equipment can be brought in for UNAMID. SA has a battalion there, in 3 bases far apart, equipped with Mambas and Casspir for protected mobility. JOps would dearly love to deploy some Ratels to handle technicals armed with 23mm etc, at least 4 Oryx for QRFand medevac, but the Sudanese govt won't allow this.
Every single contact in Darfur, we've been outnumbered and out-gunned, and only the skill and training of our guys has saved our bacon. The militia formerly supported by the govt have been left to fend for themselves, with most becoming bandits. I fear one of these days our luck will run out with catastrophic results. Our govt should say no to the UN and AU if troops are to be deployed under-strength.

And people don't realise the strain on the SANDF. For every battalion deployed externally, there's 2 at home that are not available, according to our doctrine: 1 that's come back and whose members then go off to courses in terms of their career projections, and 1 that's in pre-deployment training to rotate. So with 2 battalions in the DRC and Darfur, there's 4 at home not available.

do you think an european country even china which is in south sudan,would but there troops in a such predicament.i am not sure but even in somalia ,i dont think the A.U cover the funding for air support .most likely kenya and ethiopia are doing so Out of their own pocket.those militia are being paid by bashir,your just getting screwed

AMISOM kenya troops in kismayu

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXQ4g6Bxm8M

kenyan troops in sector 2 somalia

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cCJUPtnc34

AMISOM nigeria police and somali police carrying vehicle explosive and weapons searches in mogandishu

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZmF-pzuWPo

Henry120:
The government, especially in Africa does not grow anything. They can't run or develop a business........ hell, they can't even run a proper government.

The private sector is the only way forward.

No offence to Ghana, or the individual that built that, but that's simply not good enough. If we want to be self-sustaining we must learn to produce better more practical military equipments.

most of this ventures are capital intensive projects for african private sector or even individuals and even the risk if at the end of day you dont win the tender is high

africaken:
this is the problem with south africans ,you keep comparing yourself with sub-sahara countries. dont you think one day you will be called to protect your fellow African from an external enemy e.g turkey,france,U.S,china,egypt e.t.c

Our foreign policy is tied to the continent.

No, if a country is attacked by a powerful country like China or the USA there's nothing we can do but look.

We protected UNITA and the country's interests in Angola meaning engaging with foreign powers at times, the performance of the soldiers was great.

MikeCZAR:
Our foreign policy is tied to the continent.

No, if a country is attacked by a powerful country like China or the USA there's nothing we can do but look.

We protected UNITA and the country's interests in Angola meaning engaging with foreign powers at times, the performance of the soldiers was great.

angola is about to acquire 18 SU-30MKI

africaken:
most of this ventures are capital intensive projects for african private sector or even individuals and even the risk if at the end of day you dont win the tender is high

Yes they are capital intensive, however each private sector manufacturer has to show that it has the ability to carry out the project.

This is why the government provides Tax breaks, Import duty breaks and a whole other incentives.

The private sector manufacturer gets a commitment from the government to procure at-least 50 vehicles. On much larger projects, cost of manufacturing is shared between private sector participants, so at the end of the day, risks are reduced and everybody wins.


Government cannot run sh*t. Infact in Nigeria, there are many many Private sector players who are richer than the government. It all boils down to the level of interest in this line of business amongst private sector players.

Henry120:


Yes they are capital intensive, however each private sector manufacturer has to show that it has the ability to carry out the project.

This is why the government provides Tax breaks, Import duty breaks and a whole other incentives.

The private sector manufacturer gets a commitment from the government to procure at-least 50 vehicles. On much larger projects, cost of manufacturing is shared between private sector participants, so at the end of the day, risks are reduced and everybody wins.


Government cannot run sh*t. Infact in Nigeria, there are many many Private sector players who are richer than the government. It all boils down to the level of interest in this line of business among st private sector players.

don't forget this are the same governments which you need to win tenders,which every procurement is full of irregularities.if this same government can't buy quality weapons and equipment for its military,i dont think they will be driven with patriotism to buy from the local private sector

africaken:
angola is about to acquire 18 SU-30MKI

They SU-27s while we operated the Cheetah.

Sensors and EW capabilities always gave the SAAF the upper hand.

africaken:
angola is about to acquire 18 SU-30MKI

Good thing that Angola is one of our strongest Allies in SADAC

MikeCZAR:
They SU-27s while we operated the Cheetah.

Sensors and EW capabilities always gave the SAAF the upper hand.

i dont think this is the same air force

Patchesagain:


Good thing that Angola is one of our strongest Allies in SADAC

second scenario egypt attacks ethiopia because of the renaissance dam,ethiopia asks for help from african countries ...............................................

africaken:
i dont think this is the same air force

Peaceful times.

africaken:
don't forget this are the same governments which you need to win tenders,which every procurement is full of irregularities.if this same government can't buy quality weapons and equipment for its military,i dont think they will be driven with patriotism to buy from the local private sector

Yes they would. Companies have to first show that they can perform, with a little bit of "media blackmail" and "lobbying" local industries would grow.

In Nigeria, both the President and incoming Defence minister have identified the need for private sector participation in weapons production. With quite a number of private companies doing well, it's only a matter of time before the "big boys" would come in.

However, we'll have to wait and see.

africaken:
second scenario egypt attacks ethiopia because of the renaissance dam,ethiopia asks for help from african countries ...............................................

We send them body bags

Because if they are fighting Egypt then that is one thing they will need allot of

Patchesagain:


We send them body bags

Because if they are fighting Egypt then that is one thing they will need allot of

no wonder we needed Cubans to fight for our fellow Africans

kenya air force pilots during the acquisition of Grob G 120 from germany