FastShipping:



Why doing it over and over again if you already got the desired outcome?

Well, I know from the picture you took off the internet was made with concrete, stone dust and cement. No other materials added. The tools and ways they go here to get to fine finish is not the same way we also use in Nigeria.

Bro, I no fit kill myself na. Money no dey and I can't cope with growths in the compound. Meanwhile, the Internet pics I never get money to do. Wetin I go do? 2 inches screed over the existing floor when pepper rest won't kill me na!

But between me and you Stone dust can never produce that finish without additives and sand.


______
Hajji, na Berger sharp sand and Odo Ogun sharp sand I dey use for decking.

spyder880:


Ok, here we go

Just N800k, you go even get change sef

spyder880:
This bungalow has been built here,

4 bedrooms, two en suit
visitors toilet
library/study room
1 kitchen
1 large garage

PLUS


Beautiful pillars
step tiles aluminium roofing sheets
window hoods
External steel doors
wall edge designs
frontal designed tiles
floor and wall tiles
good quality paints


This house if built within the eastern axis of Nigeria will cost about N5m to build and then give it a superlative finish. Elegant tiles, electrical and plumbing, POP, kitchen fitted with high quality cabinets, a real home when finished.

Duration of this project is only 70 days.

Mi oga na yoke I take post o, make una no banish me o

Na your face I dey look o.

I'm watching this episode of Grand Design and they are showcasing a pilarless staircase done in steel.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZF89aEJ-zQ Around 33:00

lastpage:


It is like a decking, in terms of being self-supporting (after the initial bamboo/Plank support have been removed) at the end of the day.

Even the "Computer Design Software" that generates these designs and calculations, is written by people "Who can first CONCEPTUALIZE WHAT THEY WANT TO ACHIEVE..... put it on paper and then convert it to a software program!

We need to start thinking "out of the box" and not just doggedly rely on what is already available. That is how we innovate.
There is a "process and workflow" to such procedure.

That you think it is not possible, does not mean it is not possible, its just that as of now, YOU cant figure it out yet.



Lastpage!

structural design requires a lot of mathematics. You need to conceptualized ideas, use mathematical models and sometimes use research result to get a design done.

creativity and thinking out of existing box is an integral part of say architecture but with structures you need much more than that. You need to proof that your initiative will work under some lay down rules.

I am a degree holder in civil engineering ( structural option), i read books, journals, design made by others etc to get more education on how best to design and construct economical, safe and aesthetically pleasing house.

coming back to this spiral stair.
most spiral stair are constructed with a centrally positioned column to which the stair is attached, most time the stair behaves like a cantilever.

some spiral stair are constructed with edge beams to which the stairs are attached.....

EgunMogaji:
I'm watching this episode of Grand Design and they are showcasing a pilarless staircase done in steel.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZF89aEJ-zQ Around 33:00

That one na moi-moi as my Oga will say. Hope you won't say my own too much. I have a lot in my plate so anytime something comes up and it's close to what I'm doing I'm elated to say something.

Here's something I'm working on. Versace design

brabus:


That one na moi-moi as my Oga will say. Hope you won't say my own too much. I have a lot in my plate so anytime something comes up and it's close to what I'm doing I'm elated to say something.

Here's something I'm working on. Versace design

Of course not, we're all conversing here on architecture.

But close enough is for horse course, your design and work in progress is not even close to the one on GD. Look closely.

lastpage:


Please do. You wont regret it
I did same not too long ago ....No Sand at all.

It was excellent but ensure that it is well-mixed since the absence of Sand would mean that only the cement will act as the "binder" to the stones.
You will then have to strike a balance between "Cement" and "Fluidity".

My Builder was saying the Cement is enough but l also reminded him that the "binding effect" is equally important otherwise, cracks will develop during curing.
Its all about the "Science"



Lastpage!

concrete been a composite material have cement has the binder and filler.

cement is the only binding material in most of our concrete. it bind the fillers ( aggregates ) together through a process called "hydration" when it react with water.
the quantity of water is generally gotten from water-cement ratio and very based on strength and workability/slum required of concrete. Workability requires high water content while strength requires very low water content to balance the dilemma, engineers proposed what called
mix design.

with aggregates: we generally have two type of aggregates, namely
fine aggregates: sand, stone dust, metallic dust etc
coarse aggregates: gravel, stones, etc.

in most concrete, coarse aggregates is the major source of strength but required it void spaces filled with finer particles, hence this necessitate for the need to have fine aggregates in concrete.

stone dust is a "Better" fine aggregates than most naturally occurring fine aggregates because of the presence of organic maters, clay etc in the later.

@brabus
We (Egun and I ) were talking about his slab and not a driveway. But then, not all sands have binding quality equal to, or more than stone dust. You compare a slab of less than 2 inches which carries the live and dead weight of your car with one of 6inches which carries dead weigh of just your furniture.

You also used ONLY stone dust of 2" to floor a driveway? It's not d stonedust fault that it is shifting as U said..its probably not even well binded as a result of some factors @lastpage talked about..

If you use 2" of sand to floor a driveway, will it perform better than d stonedust?

@EgunMogaji Thanks. And I will do just that if you wouldn't say I'm having a hard-on for you
14years no be joke ..

abdulwastecx:


concrete been a composite material have cement has the binder and filler.

cement is the only binding material in most of our concrete. it bind the fillers ( aggregates ) together through a process called "hydration" when it react with water.
the quantity of water is generally gotten from water-cement ratio and very based on strength and workability/slum required of concrete. Workability requires high water content while strength requires very low water content to balance the dilemma, engineers proposed what called
mix design.

with aggregates: we generally have two type of aggregates, namely
fine aggregates: sand, stone dust, metallic dust etc
coarse aggregates: gravel, stones, etc.

in most concrete, coarse aggregates is the major source of strength but required it void spaces filled with finer particles, hence this necessitate for the need to have fine aggregates in concrete.

stone dust is a "Better" fine aggregates than most naturally occurring fine aggregates because of the presence of organic maters, clay etc in the later.

That's my point right there.. Using fine aggregates ONLY will not give the required strength. And as @lastoage said, one has to be careful of the water used in the mixture because both granite and stonedust are mighty porous, excess of water will wash away the cement paste that's supposed to bind the 'couple' together. It will put assunder..

Alagba Kola,

You did comprehension for school so? I never said I poured 2" thick slab. The slab is 5" thick. The slab is as intact but due to excessive rain, I discovered that the areas where only stone were used are chipping off.

The 2" screed is meant for the final finished floor when pepper rest. You got it! Trust me, I no dey manage at all. I've drove Mack truck on that driveway more than 5 times and there was no crack. It's very strong but I want more.

______
Pic: Check the thickness of the driveway. That's not 2" slab.

Pic 2: Picture of the driveway 3 years after it was done. I don't have any issues with it.

EgunMogaji:


I know you represent a corporate and have to watch out for your postings in the best interest of your team, so no worries. But if you ever see something dangerous on my build then you have my full permission to bring it up for discussion. My ego is worth less than the safety of my family and friends

I absolutely want the smoothest floor that I can get and I think I will go with the stone dust for the german floor.

Regarding the staircase, I am not a commensurate builder or a structural engineer but I can not see how that stair as designed will stand without a steel backbone or a spine pilar.

Thanks my friend.

where I have seen the stairs done it had internal steel plates constructed in the same shape before they poured concrete.

This is getting serious! I won't take side but we all knw the truth of the matter, I will implore both smiley and checkitout to let it slide. I believe later or sooner everyone here will knw who are real or not........ it is my good work that will speak for me. This is a profession have being doing for the past 10years after my graduation from apprentice. no big deal as am today an agent to many quarries like cnc, s&d, multi verse, labstar, unico and newly establish A&b founded by hassan Lee brother (chinese ) the former owner of the liquidated popular olodo quarry. my agent name is STANDARD / PARADOS. we are waiting to receive you 24/7 in those quarries. for those familiar with those quarries can testify to the agent name as it is very popular or you can work in and ask for us. We are son of the soil..... ire o. 08067748960 08093102705. ...... try us today and you will be glad you did

Xzevian:
This is getting serious! I won't take side but we all knw the truth of the matter, I will implore both smiley and checkitout to let it slide. I believe later or sooner everyone here will knw who are real or not........ it is my good work that will speak for me. This is a profession have being doing for the past 10years after my graduation from apprentice. no big deal as am today an agent to many quarries like cnc, s&d, multi verse, labstar, unico and newly establish A&b founded by hassan Lee brother (chinese ) the former owner of the liquidated popular olodo quarry. my agent name is STANDARD / PARADOS. we are waiting to receive you 24/7 in those quarries. for those familiar with those quarries can testify to the agent name as it is very popular or you can work in and ask for us. We are son of the soil..... ire o. 08067748960 08093102705. ...... try us today and you will be glad you did

---

Respect yourself, create a thread for your advert!

I have Been frequenting this forum,for the past few hours,though hoping i do find a solution to the problem i presented to the house,LastPage,Brabus honestly You Guys tried,I worked with the Joiner i came with,and we tried our best,i used radius and the method You provided,and i must say,it's a welcome progress..

Abdulwastecx,Let me make this clear to thee man,it is very important that You Understand That any advice offered by any user on this forum carries no guarantee of being corret,Yes,I do repeat my self if i have the chance,you have to know Structural integrity has no limitations,it's not all about blowing vocabs that even a layman can't understand,it's all about Communication chain,

Yes,Communication chain,you mentioned Structural designs require alot of mathematics,yes i concur,Let me ask you this question,As a structural Engineer,How many times have you take out your time to redress deformities/alterations in a building if such arise during the construction stage?
Structural designs differs,you might be good in paper work,but when it comes to practicaliztion of the proposed designs,one need to ask question..
I for one,i ain't among the new generation architect,i was among the few architect that designed Fidelity bank/i worked hand in hand with structural engineer/elect/project manager,

In construction,Architect First before Other professional Bodies,
I was bemused the times you orchestrated here and debunked my designs,that you doubt if the work has it's structural detailing,But brabus and last page went ahead to profer solution as per how to come up with a good design,

I didn't just wake up to design that spiral,I saw it and decided to Introduce it to my current design,i love creativity,innovations and imaginations,i Love my profession,and i do welcome constructive criticism when needed,
Lastly,thanks All Egunmogaji,lastpage,brabus,i appreciate,i'm tired.let me upload the fidelity bank i designed wey back.

Here it is..

Donswampo:
Here it is..

I hate those damn doors with a passion. It doesn't help my claustrophobic condition at all, it's bad enough that as an Ijebu man I'm going to take money from my account but then I have to also suffer near heart attacks each time I go in there

Nice building.

I'm a sucker for clean straight lines and square boxes.

Laughs, Egunmogaji,You Know In designs,You design with Specifications,LOL,Uptil now,that door is still in existence.thanks.

Donswampo:
Laughs, Egunmogaji,You Know In designs,You design with Specifications,LOL,Uptil now,that door is still in existence.thanks.

Yeah I grew up with architecture.

My older Brother is an architect and owns an award winning architectural firm here in Southern California.

EgunMogaji:

I hate those damn doors with a passion. It doesn't help my claustrophobic condition at all, it's bad enough that as an Ijebu man I'm going to take money from my account but then I have to also suffer near heart attacks each time I go in there

Nice building.

I'm a sucker for clean straight lines and square boxes.

Nigerian banks... first time I went thru those things, not be joke o. But it's need for security... all the daytime armed robbery in Naija na wah o.

Hajji M.

mufutau55:


Nigerian banks... first time I went thru those things, not be joke o. But it's need for security... all the daytime armed robbery in Naija na wah o.

Hajji M.

I get the security thing but I beg make dem make the space bigger for portly folks like me

EgunMogaji:

I get the security thing but I beg make dem make the space bigger for portly folks like me

Yeah! It was the size that gave me phobia o. Imagine me at 6ft 6ins and 250lbs of pure muscles going thru that thing.. my brothers cannot stop laughing.

Hajji M.

abdulwastecx:


structural design requires a lot of mathematics. You need to conceptualized ideas, use mathematical models and sometimes use research result to get a design done.

creativity and thinking out of existing box is an integral part of say architecture but with structures you need much more than that. You need to proof that your initiative will work under some lay down rules.

I am a degree holder in civil engineering ( structural option), i read books, journals, design made by others etc to get more education on how best to design and construct economical, safe and aesthetically pleasing house.

coming back to this spiral stair.
most spiral stair are constructed with a centrally positioned column to which the stair is attached, most time the stair behaves like a cantilever.

some spiral stair are constructed with edge beams to which the stairs are attached.....

I didn't want to be a distraction by no means; I just wanted to show my respect. Just had to quote this!

@Donswampo, @all

Structural engineers work their whole careers designing a non-breathtaking and normal structure but yet the everyday structures on which we all travel and in which we all live and work.

Unfortunately, when a new house is built or considered by a homeowner, designer, builder or developer; little thought is given to the loading or load resistance of the structural elements supporting the house.

The primary focus of majority homeowners, is always on the floor plan (at least I can say that with authority on this platform), landscaping, and finesse. So, the structural elements that supports the house always receives little or no structural engineering input.

I'm lucky to have worked with big engineering guys and I can say it with authority that structural engineering is fun if you can be attentive.

Take a look at this simple scenario of how we build here on Nairaland:

Mr A wanted a residential building. First, he start to look at the area he'll like to live. Next, he start thinking about the house itself. How big, how many rooms, and the shapes. He gave very little or no thought to the structural elements which supports the house. He called his designer and they came up with a fantastic house with interesting features like the helical spiral staircase, unsupported beams spanning over 6m, wraparound terrace on 1.5m cantilever and many more. The next thing, he came online to ask for quotation to build the modern edifice exactly as the 3D presentation. Got a builder and construction began.

At what point did he require structural engineers input? Point of construction (just as you came and ask how a staircase which is an integral part of the building will be constructed)? Or while the idea is still on paper? That's how we roll and what leads to 99.9% of structural failure we see today.

Now, let's look at the following variables:

A floor plan is a floor plan. But two parcel of land are never the same. One land may be sloped, or adjacent to a river, while the soils of the other may have low bearing capacities or have a high water table. What about bad weather during construction? The construction practices to be adopted on Site A and B always differs, so also the skills and technical requirements.

So my questions are, why aren't Structural Engineers more involved in our designs at the conception? Why are we more particular about the cost, the materials and the esthetics?
Why aren't topics like the strength, stability and durability of structures, interpretation of building codes, calculation of stress, discussed until there's a major need?

Why aren't SE's more involved in our projects? Anybody can design, we have thousands of DIY homeowners but how many can design a structure considering the different variable and conditions of a given land?


NextHome

@brabus No vex oo, you don dey use style yab me oo.. Yoruba will say "Oin ni eebu agbalagba". Your house is a fine house.

Most times Structural Engrs are only considered for multi-storey buildings.

@xzevian which issues does chekitaut and Smiley001 have?

@donswampo Oga the solution is to design something practicable.. No come dey make builder get grey hair thinking of how to implement your design

@KolaShangOne,

Sorry jare, that came out of intoxification. I've had too much of Eva water yesternight. Trust me, I know when I should apologize and how to do one.

How about Recreation Club 6pm this evening? Have 2 chicken suya on me while you await my arrival to appease your g*d

__________
Thanks for the compliment on the house. Na small small snake dey take climb fence. That's what I wanted and that's what I went for. It took time but I didn't compromise. There were challenges/issues, I faced it head on and didn't allow them to distract me. I didn't have to fight the whole world while doing so. Afterall, I'm not competing with anyone! And dem no dey catch late comer for homeownership

Loving this thread!

EgunMogaji:


Did you use wire mesh? I would love to see a pic of the finished floor if you have a chance.

Yes, with DPC under......... but it is not really compulsory if it is going to be a "low traffic, private residential" home that is not more than a storey.


Lastpage!

gabbytabby:
where I have seen the stairs done it had internal steel plates constructed in the same shape before they poured concrete.

\

Thank you gabby, for this simple line!

It is exactly what l proposed earlier (as posted below) but because l have not done Computer-Aided Design with a lot of dy/dx to boot, ....they think l dont know what l am talking about!

lastpage:


*Can you first design a platform the shape of the base of the Stairs with wood
*Use "removable" wooden supports under it (Vertically and horizontally). This will be removed when cast solidifies.
*Reinforce this with a "thick, flat but ribbed" sheet of iron the size of the stairs ..or like 75% size (will serve as support for eventual stairs, but will be embedded inside)
The ribs can be in form of welded rods to it, basically to give it strength)
*Now, finally cast the base with concrete (using the ribbed-iron-sheet as reinforcement).... and remove the wooden supports after it cures.

The idea is that like a Decking, which you use wood to form and support, but the woods are removed when cured and it can support itself, using its internal re-reinforcement.

You can fine-tune it but if l were to implement it, l know l can pull-off this concept.



Lastpage!

Dearis God sha! I know if l need to do it, l will pull it off safely.

@Egun.

Below is a snapshot of a 5-Board Foundation ....and the Slab on it afterwards
.... all done without a single grain of sand.

Cement, G-Dust and Granite all through.

I say go for it, you wont regret it.


Lastpage!

KolaShangOne:
@brabus No vex oo, you don dey use style yab me oo.. Yoruba will say "Oin ni eebu agbalagba". Your house is a fine house.

Most times Structural Engrs are only considered for multi-storey buildings.

@xzevian which issues does chekitaut and Smiley001 have?

@donswampo Oga the solution is to design something practicable.. No come dey make builder get grey hair thinking of how to implement your design

Sir, dats on anoda thread... no need to derail dis one kos we all know what dis particular thread is for.

mufutau55:


Nigerian banks... first time I went thru those things, not be joke o. But it's need for security... all the daytime armed robbery in Naija na wah o.

Hajji M.

That door is a waste of time.

The robbers that operated in Festac last week just used Dynamite to blow the thing off!
It snot even Bullet proof!

Its just a "metal detector" in Glass casing!

Abeg, since its not fulfilling its purpose, they better remove it and let us pass.


Lastpage!

brabus:
@Donswampo, @all

Structural engineers work their whole careers designing a non-breathtaking and normal structure but yet the everyday structures on which we all travel and in which we all live and work.

Unfortunately, when a new house is built or considered by a homeowner, designer, builder or developer; little thought is given to the loading or load resistance of the structural elements supporting the house.

The primary focus of majority homeowners, is always on the floor plan (at least I can say that with authority on this platform), landscaping, and finesse. So, the structural elements that supports the house always receives little or no structural engineering input.

I'm lucky to have worked with big engineering guys and I can say it with authority that structural engineering is fun if you can be attentive.

Take a look at this simple scenario of how we build here on Nairaland:

Mr A wanted a residential building. First, he start to look at the area he'll like to live. Next, he start thinking about the house itself. How big, how many rooms, and the shapes. He gave very little or no thought to the structural elements which supports the house. He called his designer and they came up with a fantastic house with interesting features like the helical spiral staircase, unsupported beams spanning over 6m, wraparound terrace on 1.5m cantilever and many more. The next thing, he came online to ask for quotation to build the modern edifice exactly as the 3D presentation. Got a builder and construction began.

At what point did he require structural engineers input? Point of construction (just as you came and ask how a staircase which is an integral part of the building will be constructed)? Or while the idea is still on paper? That's how we roll and what leads to 99.9% of structural failure we see today.

Now, let's look at the following variables:

A floor plan is a floor plan. But two parcel of land are never the same. One land may be sloped, or adjacent to a river, while the soils of the other may have low bearing capacities or have a high water table. What about bad weather during construction? The construction practices to be adopted on Site A and B always differs, so also the skills and technical requirements.

So my questions are, why aren't Structural Engineers more involved in our designs at the conception? Why are we more particular about the cost, the materials and the esthetics?
Why aren't topics like the strength, stability and durability of structures, interpretation of building codes, calculation of stress, discussed until there's a major need?

Why aren't SE's more involved in our projects? Anybody can design, we have thousands of DIY homeowners but how many can design a structure considering the different variable and conditions of a given land?


NextHome

I hope you practice what you preach as some of your builds have to be amended over and over.
In some cases, Nairalanders have to wade-in an offer suggestions on how to rectify the problems some of your builds created.

We are not claiming to be structural Engineers but what the Poster requested for was a solution to a simple "short" staircase design, not some 3rd mainland Bridge ........... and the challenge is simple enough (Avoid Visible Support).

l think we should be modest ............so that "the Pot does not say the kettle is black"!

Abeg,, let us leave the matter. it is resolved.

BTW: The structural Engineers get involved at the Design Stage (They are supposed to work with the Architect during the Archi-Design state) after which the drawings are certified "constructable", by appending their (Structural/mechanical/Electrical) STAMP to the drawing.

They also coming-in during the "Building Proper", as they supervise the builder...... except where Builders like "Brabus" take-over their job and become Builder/Structural/mechanical Engineer all rolled into one!

Well, if the design is "simple enough", l guess with enough knowledge and experience, you can get-by.



Lastpage!