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The Original Sin - Religion - Nairaland

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The Original Sin / Original Sin: The Conflict Between Catholic And Pentecostal. / Questioning The Implausibilities 3 (original Sin) (2) (3) (4)

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The Original Sin by Aashik(m): 10:54pm On Nov 24, 2015
According to the xtian belief,
It was made known that Jesus Christ came and died on the cross to expiate the original son sinnned by Adam and Eve.
I will like you to elaborate on this.
What exactly was the original sin
Re: The Original Sin by Aashik(m): 11:13pm On Nov 24, 2015
Support your facts with biblical quotations


malvisguy, OLAADEGBU, Anas09, parisbookaddict

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Re: The Original Sin by Medicis(m): 11:28pm On Nov 24, 2015
Aashik:
Support your facts with biblical quotations


malvisguy, OLAADEGBU, Anas09, parisbookaddict
When you sanction a country, every Citizen of that country pays dearly for the actions of their Goverment even without being directly responsible for the actions of their Goverment. THE SIN OF ADAM IS A "FEDERAL SIN".
Re: The Original Sin by BETATRON(m): 8:25am On Nov 25, 2015
Medicis:
When you sanction a country, every Citizen of that country pays dearly for the actions of their Goverment even without being directly responsible for the sins of their Goverment. THE SIN OF ADAM IS A "FEDERAL SIN".
how can the sin of 1 man be federal.if for instance I commit and was sentenced to life imprisonment,,will it be just to also sentence my son who knows nothing about the crime
Not just my son but my entire generations..what kind of justice is that?
Adam isn't a COUNTRY but a man
Re: The Original Sin by Medicis(m): 8:52am On Nov 25, 2015
BETATRON:
how can the sin of 1 man be federal.if for instance I commit and was sentenced to life imprisonment,,will it be just to also sentence my son who knows nothing about the crime
Not just my son but my entire generations..what kind of justice is that?
Adam isn't a COUNTRY but a man


The Bible says, “Sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned” (Romans 5:12). It was through Adam that sin entered the world. When Adam sinned, he immediately died spiritually—his relationship with God was broken—and he also began dying physically—his body began the process of growing old and dying. From that point on, every person born has inherited Adam’s sin nature and suffered the same consequences of spiritual and physical death.

We are born physically alive but spiritually dead. This is why Jesus told Nicodemus, “You must be born again” (John 3:7). Physical birth provides us with a sinful human nature; spiritual rebirth provides us with a new nature, “created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness” (Ephesians 4:24).

It may not seem fair to be saddled with Adam’s sin nature, but it’s eminently consistent with other aspects of human propagation. We inherit physical characteristics such as eye color from our parents, and we also inherit their spiritual characteristics. Why should the passing on of spiritual traits be any different from the transmission of physical traits? We may complain about having brown eyes when we wanted blue, but our eye color is simply a matter of genetics. In the same way, having a sin nature is a matter of “spiritual genetics”; it’s a natural part of life.

However, the Bible says we are sinners by deed as well as by nature. We are sinners twice over: we sin because we are sinners (Adam’s choice), and we are sinners because we sin (our choice). “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23). We are more than potential sinners; we are practicing sinners. “Each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away” (James 1:14). A driver sees the speed limit sign; he exceeds the limit; he gets a ticket. He can’t blame Adam for that.

“I did not eat the fruit.” True, but Scripture says that we, individually and as a human race, were all represented by Adam. “In Adam all die” (1 Corinthians 15:22). A diplomat speaking at the United Nations may do or say things that many of his countrymen disapprove of, but he is still the diplomat—he is the officially recognized representative of that country.

The theological principle of a man representing his descendants is called “federal headship.” Adam was the first created human being. He stood at the “head” of the human race. He was placed in the garden to act not only for himself but for all his progeny. Every person ever born was already “in Adam,” represented by him. The concept of federal headship is clearly taught elsewhere in Scripture: “One might even say that Levi himself, who receives tithes, paid tithes through Abraham, for he was still in the loins of his ancestor when Melchizedek met him” (Hebrews 7:9-10, ESV). Levi was born several centuries after Abraham lived, yet Levi paid tithes to Melchizedek “through Abraham.” Abraham was the federal head of the Jewish people, and his actions represented the future twelve tribes and the Levitical priesthood.

“I did not eat the fruit.” True, but all sin has consequences beyond the initial wrongdoing. “No man is an island, entire of itself,” John Donne famously wrote. This truth can be applied spiritually. David’s sin with Bathsheba affected David, of course, but it also had a ripple effect that affected Uriah, David’s unborn child, the rest of David’s family, the whole nation, and even Israel’s enemies (2 Samuel 12:9-14). Sin always has undesirable effects on those around us. The ripples of Adam’s momentous sin are still being felt.

“I did not eat the fruit.” True, you were not physically present in the actual Garden of Eden with the juice of forbidden fruit staining the corners of your guilty mouth. But the Bible seems to indicate that, if you had been there instead of Adam, you’d have done the same thing he did. The apple, as they say, doesn’t fall far from the tree.

Whether or not we think it’s “fair” to have Adam’s sin imputed to us doesn’t really matter. God says that we have inherited Adam’s sinful nature, and who are we to argue with God? Besides, we are sinners in our own right. Our own sin probably makes Adam look like a puritan in comparison.

Here’s the good news: God loves sinners. In fact, He has acted to overcome our sin nature by sending Jesus to pay for our sins and offer us His righteousness (1 Peter 2:24). Jesus took the death that was our penalty upon Himself, “so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” (2 Corinthians 5:21). Note the words “in him.” We who were once in Adam can now be in Christ by faith. Christ is our new Head, and “in Christ all will be made alive” (1 Corinthians 15:22).

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Re: The Original Sin by BETATRON(m): 9:10am On Nov 25, 2015
Medicis:
The Bible says, “Sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned” (Romans 5:12). It was through Adam that sin entered the world. When Adam sinned, he immediately died spiritually—his relationship with God was broken—and he also began dying physically—his body began the process of growing old and dying. From that point on, every person born has inherited Adam’s sin nature and suffered the same consequences of spiritual and physical death.

We are born physically alive but spiritually dead. This is why Jesus told Nicodemus, “You must be born again” (John 3:7). Physical birth provides us with a sinful human nature; spiritual rebirth provides us with a new nature, “created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness” (Ephesians 4:24).

It may not seem fair to be saddled with Adam’s sin nature, but it’s eminently consistent with other aspects of human propagation. We inherit physical characteristics such as eye color from our parents, and we also inherit their spiritual characteristics. Why should the passing on of spiritual traits be any different from the transmission of physical traits? We may complain about having brown eyes when we wanted blue, but our eye color is simply a matter of genetics. In the same way, having a sin nature is a matter of “spiritual genetics”; it’s a natural part of life.

However, the Bible says we are sinners by deed as well as by nature. We are sinners twice over: we sin because we are sinners (Adam’s choice), and we are sinners because we sin (our choice). “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23). We are more than potential sinners; we are practicing sinners. “Each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away” (James 1:14). A driver sees the speed limit sign; he exceeds the limit; he gets a ticket. He can’t blame Adam for that.

“I did not eat the fruit.” True, but Scripture says that we, individually and as a human race, were all represented by Adam. “In Adam all die” (1 Corinthians 15:22). A diplomat speaking at the United Nations may do or say things that many of his countrymen disapprove of, but he is still the diplomat—he is the officially recognized representative of that country.

The theological principle of a man representing his descendants is called “federal headship.” Adam was the first created human being. He stood at the “head” of the human race. He was placed in the garden to act not only for himself but for all his progeny. Every person ever born was already “in Adam,” represented by him. The concept of federal headship is clearly taught elsewhere in Scripture: “One might even say that Levi himself, who receives tithes, paid tithes through Abraham, for he was still in the loins of his ancestor when Melchizedek met him” (Hebrews 7:9-10, ESV). Levi was born several centuries after Abraham lived, yet Levi paid tithes to Melchizedek “through Abraham.” Abraham was the federal head of the Jewish people, and his actions represented the future twelve tribes and the Levitical priesthood.

“I did not eat the fruit.” True, but all sin has consequences beyond the initial wrongdoing. “No man is an island, entire of itself,” John Donne famously wrote. This truth can be applied spiritually. David’s sin with Bathsheba affected David, of course, but it also had a ripple effect that affected Uriah, David’s unborn child, the rest of David’s family, the whole nation, and even Israel’s enemies (2 Samuel 12:9-14). Sin always has undesirable effects on those around us. The ripples of Adam’s momentous sin are still being felt.

“I did not eat the fruit.” True, you were not physically present in the actual Garden of Eden with the juice of forbidden fruit staining the corners of your guilty mouth. But the Bible seems to indicate that, if you had been there instead of Adam, you’d have done the same thing he did. The apple, as they say, doesn’t fall far from the tree.

Whether or not we think it’s “fair” to have Adam’s sin imputed to us doesn’t really matter. God says that we have inherited Adam’s sinful nature, and who are we to argue with God? Besides, we are sinners in our own right. Our own sin probably makes Adam look like a puritan in comparison.

Here’s the good news: God loves sinners. In fact, He has acted to overcome our sin nature by sending Jesus to pay for our sins and offer us His righteousness (1 Peter 2:24). Jesus took the death that was our penalty upon Himself, “so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” (2 Corinthians 5:21). Note the words “in him.” We who were once in Adam can now be in Christ by faith. Christ is our new Head, and “in Christ all will be made alive” (1 Corinthians 15:22).
lol
Ezekiel18;20-The one who sins is the one who will die. The child
will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the
parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness
of the righteous will be credited to them, and the
wickedness of the wicked will be charged against
them.

Deut. 24:16 Fathers shall not be put to
death for their children, nor children put to
death for their fathers; each is to die for
his own sin.

Jer. 31:29-31 "In those days people will no
longer say, 'The fathers have eaten sour
grapes, and the children's teeth are set on
edge.' Instead, everyone will die for his
own sin; whoever eats sour grapes--his
own teeth will be set on edge. "The time is
coming," declares the LORD, "when I will
make a new covenant with the house of
Israel and with the house of Judah."

You've not come across these ones right..how do you explain this contradiction

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Re: The Original Sin by sonmvayina(m): 10:05am On Nov 25, 2015
The only thing i have taken from the conversation so far is that the bible is full of contradiictory information.

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Re: The Original Sin by Medicis(m): 10:57am On Nov 25, 2015
BETATRON:
lol
Ezekiel18;20-The one who sins is the one who will die. The child
will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the
parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness
of the righteous will be credited to them, and the
wickedness of the wicked will be charged against
them.

Deut. 24:16 Fathers shall not be put to
death for their children, nor children put to
death for their fathers; each is to die for
his own sin.

Jer. 31:29-31 "In those days people will no
longer say, 'The fathers have eaten sour
grapes, and the children's teeth are set on
edge.' Instead, everyone will die for his
own sin; whoever eats sour grapes--his
own teeth will be set on edge. "The time is
coming," declares the LORD, "when I will
make a new covenant with the house of
Israel and with the house of Judah."

You've not come across these ones right..how do you explain this contradiction
Ezekiel says clearly God does not punish the sons for their fathers’ sins, but that “the soul who sins shall die [for its own sins].” However, in Exodus 20:5 we are informed that God visits “the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations.” These seem flatly contradictory.
SOLUTION: Ezekiel is speaking of the guilt of the father’s sin never being held against the sons, but Moses was referring to the consequences of the fathers’ sins being passed on to their children. Unfortunately, if a father is a drunk, the children can suffer abuse and even poverty. Likewise, if a mother has contracted AIDS from drug use, then her baby may be born with AIDS. But, this does not mean that the innocent children are guilty of the sins of their parents.
Further, even if the Exodus passage implied that moral guilt was somehow also visited on the children, it would only be because they too, like their fathers, had sinned against God. Noteworthy is the fact that God only visits the iniquities of “those who hate” Him (Ex. 20:5), not those who do not (see also comments on Rom. 5:12).
Re: The Original Sin by Medicis(m): 11:18am On Nov 25, 2015
BETATRON:
how can the sin of 1 man be federal.if for instance I commit and was sentenced to life imprisonment,,will it be just to also sentence my son who knows nothing about the crime
Not just my son but my entire generations..what kind of justice is that?
Adam isn't a COUNTRY but a man


Did I say he is a Country? One Man(French President) took a decision against Isis and 129 innocent french citizens paid dearly with there lives for 1 Man's decision. How do you explain that?
Re: The Original Sin by BETATRON(m): 12:21pm On Nov 25, 2015
Medicis:
Did I say he is a Country? One Man(French President) took a decision against Isis and 129 innocent french citizens paid dearly with there lives for 1 Man's decision. How do you explain that?
do you term the actions of isis as JUSTICE?or REBELLION?
Re: The Original Sin by BETATRON(m): 12:32pm On Nov 25, 2015
Medicis:
Ezekiel says clearly God does not punish the sons for their fathers’ sins, but that “the soul who sins shall die [for its own sins].” However, in Exodus 20:5 we are informed that God visits “the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations.” These seem flatly contradictory.
SOLUTION: Ezekiel is speaking of the guilt of the father’s sin never being held against the sons, but Moses was referring to the consequences of the fathers’ sins being passed on to their children. Unfortunately, if a father is a drunk, the children can suffer abuse and even poverty. Likewise, if a mother has contracted AIDS from drug use, then her baby may be born with AIDS. But, this does not mean that the innocent children are guilty of the sins of their parents.
Further, even if the Exodus passage implied that moral guilt was somehow also visited on the children, it would only be because they too, like their fathers, had sinned against God. Noteworthy is the fact that God only visits the iniquities of “those who hate” Him (Ex. 20:5), not those who do not (see also comments on Rom. 5:12).
what do you mean bY GUILT when the verese clearly states that "the son will not be punished for the fathers sins and vice versa"
Well we haves seen a lot of people who had HIV when pregnant and their children didn't contact the disease and a lot of people who parents where drunkards but end up doing well in live--from this exceptional cases do you mean the covenant of God did not encompass the entire human generations

What do you mean by inequities of does who hate him does adam hate God? If he doesn't then what is the essence of the adamic sin

It is also in the bible that some of the family members of the MEN OF GOD (e.g noah) were bad people..why in these cases are the father devoted men of God and the sons bad people??
Re: The Original Sin by Medicis(m): 1:27pm On Nov 25, 2015
BETATRON:
do you term the actions of isis as JUSTICE?or REBELLION?
Are you asking me? Or are no longer your muslim brothers. As far as they are co cerned, its justice for allah na
Re: The Original Sin by Medicis(m): 1:39pm On Nov 25, 2015
BETATRON:
what do you mean bY GUILT when the verese clearly states that "the son will not be punished for the fathers sins and vice versa"
Well we haves seen a lot of people who had HIV when pregnant and their children didn't contact the disease and a lot of people who parents where drunkards but end up doing well in live--from this exceptional cases do you mean the covenant of God did not encompass the entire human generations

What do you mean by inequities of does who hate him does adam hate God? If he doesn't then what is the essence of the adamic sin

It is also in the bible that some of the family members of the MEN OF GOD (e.g noah) were bad people..why in these cases are the father devoted men of God and the sons bad people??

See, let me just summarise those passages for you cos you don't seem to understand me. Only the children who "hate God", and sin themselves, are the ones who are punished, only the wicked and ungodly children who are following the wicked example of their fathers are punished. God shows mercy on the children who love Him and keep his Law even if their Father is Wicked I.e they will not be punished for the sins of their Father.
Re: The Original Sin by BETATRON(m): 1:44pm On Nov 25, 2015
Medicis:
See, let me just summarise those passages for you cos you don't seem to understand me. Only the children who "hate God", and sin themselves, are the ones who are punished, only the wicked and ungodly children who are following the wicked example of their fathers are punished. God shows mercy on the children who love Him and keep his Law even if their Father is Wicked I.e they will not be punished for the sins of their Father.
your explanation is in line with the verse of ezekiel18:20 not in line with the ones with professed the punishing of the children for the sins of their father..stop confusing the whole thing..you are either in support or against
Re: The Original Sin by BETATRON(m): 1:47pm On Nov 25, 2015
Medicis:
Are you asking me? Or are no longer your muslim brothers. As far as they are co cerned, its justice for allah na
bro..I thought you were using it to support you claim of "punishing an entire clan for the sin of just one man"

Trying to use it otherwise will mean that you're derailing..and derailing is sign of insecurity

Are you derailing??
Re: The Original Sin by Medicis(m): 1:56pm On Nov 25, 2015
BETATRON:
bro..I thought you were using it to support you claim of "punishing an entire clan for the sin of just one man"

Trying to use it otherwise will mean that you're derailing..and derailing is sign of insecurity

Are you derailing??
Is Isis not punishing the citizen of france for the decisions made by there commander in chief(1 Man)?? If they have their way they will destroy the whole of France for the decision of just one Man(their president). Insecurity from you U too small
Re: The Original Sin by BETATRON(m): 2:10pm On Nov 25, 2015
Medicis:
Is Isis not punishing the citizen of france for the decisions made by there commander in chief(1 Man)?? If they have their way they will destroy the whole of France for the Sins of just one Man(their president). Insecurity from you U too small
.the question is are you using actions of isis as a logic to justify the punishment of son for the sins of the father and father for the sins of the son..well, every body except isis know that this act is TERRORISM so are you saying this act of punishing father for son by God in the bible is also terrorism

Never said am big or too big..my understanding doesn't extend more than the plain of view of an ant in a desert and that is why I'm asking you(the bigger man knowledge-wise) questions?
The bible said ask and it shall be given unto you
Re: The Original Sin by Medicis(m): 2:31pm On Nov 25, 2015
BETATRON:
your explanation is in line with the verse of ezekiel18:20 not in line with the ones with professed the punishing of the children for the sins of their father..stop confusing the whole thing..you are either in support or against
I'm not confusing anything. The confusion is in your head. Pls read those bible passages in context. If you claim to understand ezekiel 18:20, then pleeeesssseeeee kindly explain Ezekiel18:2-3

2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?

3 As I live, saith the Lord God, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel
Re: The Original Sin by Medicis(m): 2:35pm On Nov 25, 2015
BETATRON:
.the question is are you using actions of isis as a logic to justify the punishment of son for the sins of the father and father for the sins of the son..well, every body except isis know that this act is TERRORISM so are you saying this act of punishing father for son by God in the bible is also terrorism

Never said am big or too big..my understanding doesn't extend more than the plain of view of an ant in a desert and that is why I'm asking you,(the bigger man knowledge-wise) questions?
The bible said ask and it shall be given unto you
you don't know the Bible, Stop quoting it out of context! To u, its terorism but to isis, its justice.
Re: The Original Sin by BETATRON(m): 2:37pm On Nov 25, 2015
Medicis:
I'm not confusing anything. The confusion is in your head. Pls read those bible passages in context. If you claim to understand ezekiel 18:20, then pleeeesssseeeee kindly explain Ezekiel18:2-3

2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?

3 As I live, saith the Lord God, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel
still conforming to my point the verse is saying in other words "if the father eats a sour grape its his teeth that will go on edge not that of his sons"
The phrase "what mean ye"--is like saying how dear you say that the son will suffer for the sins of the father
You shall not have any occasion to use this proverb in isreal--meaning this kind of act (punishing son for sins of father) isn't ascribable to God and should not be used

How critical do you want me to assess the verse again
Re: The Original Sin by BETATRON(m): 2:43pm On Nov 25, 2015
Medicis:
you don't know the Bible, Stop quoting it out of context! To u, its terorism but to isis, its justice.
how is that the issue..read my post carefully b4 quoting will you

Sorry if I quoted the bible out of context didn't intend to do so
Re: The Original Sin by Aashik(m): 11:16pm On Nov 29, 2015
BETATRON:
how is that the issue..read my post carefully b4 quoting will you

Sorry if I quoted the bible out of context didn't intend to do so


Jazakumullah khair bro, you have really done a great justice to this issue.

There is one great problem that they never seek solution for : they will never read there bible and analyze it. For if they do, they will accept that it's a holy book of contradictions. Smh. "Eedina siratal mustaqeem."


Medicis:
When you sanction a country, every Citizen of that country pays dearly for the actions of their Goverment even without being directly responsible for the sins of their Goverment. THE SIN OF ADAM IS A "FEDERAL SIN".

Actually, betatron had replied you logically enough for you to see what your religion entails. So I have nothing to add to what my brother had said.


Now the question is what was the repacution of your proclaimed original sin on human race

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Re: The Original Sin by Aashik(m): 11:16pm On Nov 29, 2015
BETATRON:
how is that the issue..read my post carefully b4 quoting will you

Sorry if I quoted the bible out of context didn't intend to do so


Jazakumullah khair bro, you have really done a great justice to this issue.

There is one great problem that they never seek solution for : they will never read there bible and analyze it. For if they do, they will accept that it's a holy book of contradictions. Smh. "Eedina siratal mustaqeem."


Medicis:
When you sanction a country, every Citizen of that country pays dearly for the actions of their Goverment even without being directly responsible for the sins of their Goverment. THE SIN OF ADAM IS A "FEDERAL SIN".

Actually, betatron had replied you logically enough for you to see what your religion entails. So I have nothing to add to what my brother had said.


Now the question is what was the repacution of your proclaimed original sin on human race?

1 Like

Re: The Original Sin by BETATRON(m): 11:24pm On Nov 29, 2015
Aashik:



Jazakumullah khair bro, you have really done a great justice to this issue.

There is one great problem that they never seek solution for : they will never read there bible and analyze it. For if they do, they will accept that it's a holy book of contradictions. Smh. "Eedina siratal mustaqeem."




Actually, betatron had replied you logically enough for you to see what your religion entails. So I have nothing to add to what my brother had said.


Now the question is what was the repacution of your proclaimed original sin on human race?
thanks bro
A big problem indeed,,I pray they start analyzing the bible logically and without sentiments, and not saying stuffs like seek the guidance of the holy spirit when they run into something inexplicable

Na'am------Eedina siratal mustaqeem

Salaam brother
Re: The Original Sin by mamsong9(m): 11:52pm On Nov 29, 2015
Medicis:
When you sanction a country, every Citizen of that country pays dearly for the actions of their Goverment even without being directly responsible for the sins of their Goverment. THE SIN OF ADAM IS A "FEDERAL SIN".

That is foolishness. God would never do that. and by the way Adams has been forgiven so there is nothing called Original Sin.
And if it is so. you mean God can not forgive us all until he came to this world directly and die for a sin somebody committed.
Look everything about Christianity is Confusion! Confusion!! Confusion!!!
was it God that die for our sin or His son?
Please Christians enough of this confusion.
Re: The Original Sin by Medicis(m): 11:53pm On Nov 29, 2015
Aashik:



Jazakumullah khair bro, you have really done a great justice to this issue.

There is one great problem that they never seek solution for : they will never read there bible and analyze it. For if they do, they will accept that it's a holy book of contradictions. Smh. "Eedina siratal mustaqeem."




Actually, betatron had replied you logically enough for you to see what your religion entails. So I have nothing to add to what my brother had said.


Now the question is what was the repacution of your proclaimed original sin on human race?
The repacution of the sin of Adam on the human race is DEATH. ROMANS 5:12.Therefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Re: The Original Sin by BETATRON(m): 11:56pm On Nov 29, 2015
mamsong9:


That is foolishness. God would never do that. and by the way Adams has been forgiven so there is nothing called Original Sin.
And if it is so. you mean God can not forgive us all until he came to this world directly and die for a sin somebody committed.
Look everything about Christianity is Confusion! Confusion!! Confusion!!!
was it God that die for our sin or His son?
Please Christians enough of this confusion.
God bless you jare...what's the essence of the forgiveness if you punished all is offspring afterwards

Did God deceive adam by saying He has forgiving him?

Nice point man

Imagine calling a small child who knows nothing a sinner--i wonder what happens if such a child dies few minutes after birth

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Re: The Original Sin by Medicis(m): 12:13am On Nov 30, 2015
BETATRON:
still conforming to my point the verse is saying in other words "if the father eats a sour grape its his teeth that will go on edge not that of his sons"
The phrase "what mean ye"--is like saying how dear you say that the son will suffer for the sins of the father
You shall not have any occasion to use this proverb in isreal--meaning this kind of act (punishing son for sins of father) isn't ascribable to God and should not be used

How critical do you want me to assess the verse again

The Bible verse does not apply to you. God was SPECIFICALLY talking to isreal and not you. Whatever God was saying their applies to isreal alone. Don't use this proverb in isreal but he doesn't care if the same proverb is used outside of isreal.
Re: The Original Sin by BETATRON(m): 12:17am On Nov 30, 2015
Medicis:
The Bible verse does not apply to you. God was SPECIFICALLY talking to isreal and not you. Whatever God was saying their applies to isreal alone. Don't use this proverb in isreal but he doesn't care if the same proverb is used outside of isreal.
you didn't know that it was applicable to only isrealites before quoting it

Come to think of it..how come the law of God apply to one set of people and a contradictory law to another(that will mean INJUSTICE)

Isn't the law of God supposed to be universal ?
Re: The Original Sin by Medicis(m): 12:39am On Nov 30, 2015
BETATRON:
you didn't know that it was applicable to only isrealites before quoting it

Come to think of it..how come the law of God apply to one set of people and a contradictory law to another(that will mean INJUSTICE)

Isn't the law of God supposed to be universal ?
Have u considered this versesIsaiah 43:27
Verse Concepts
"Your first forefather sinned, And your spokesmen have transgressed against Me.

Exodus 20:5
Verse Concepts
"You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,

Exodus 34:7
Verse Concepts
who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations."

Numbers 14:18
Verse Concepts
'The LORD is slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, forgiving iniquity and transgression; but He will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generations.'

Deuteronomy 5:9
Verse Concepts
'You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,

Job 21:19
Verse Concepts
"You say, 'God stores away a man's iniquity for his sons.' Let God repay him so that he may know it.

Isaiah 14:21
Verse Concepts
"Prepare for his sons a place of slaughter Because of the iniquity of their fathers. They must not arise and take possession of the earth And fill the face of the world with cities."

Isaiah 65:7
Verse Concepts
Both their own iniquities and the iniquities of their fathers together," says the LORD "Because they have burned incense on the mountains And scorned Me on the hills, Therefore I will measure their former work into their bosom."

Jeremiah 31:29
Verse Concepts
"In those days they will not say again, 'The fathers have eaten sour grapes, And the children's teeth are set on edge.'


Jeremiah 32:18
Verse Concepts
who shows lovingkindness to thousands, but repays the iniquity of fathers into the bosom of their children after them, O great and mighty God The LORD of hosts is His name;

Lamentations 5:7
Verse Concepts
Our fathers sinned, and are no more; It is we who have borne their iniquities.

Psalm 17:14
Verse Concepts
From men with Your hand, O LORD, From men of the world, whose portion is in this life, And whose belly You fill with Your treasure; They are satisfied with children, And leave their abundance to their babes.

Isaiah 14:20
Verse Concepts
"You will not be united with them in burial, Because you have ruined your country, You have slain your people. May the offspring of evildoers not be mentioned forever.

Ezekiel 20:4
"Will you judge them, will you judge them, son of man? Make them know the abominations of their fathers;

Zechariah 1:2
Verse Concepts
"The LORD was very angry with your fathers
Re: The Original Sin by Medicis(m): 12:42am On Nov 30, 2015
BETATRON:
you didn't know that it was applicable to only isrealites before quoting it

Come to think of it..how come the law of God apply to one set of people and a contradictory law to another(that will mean INJUSTICE)

Isn't the law of God supposed to be universal ?
Do you believe in d law of Jehovah?? If u do u won't be a Muslim.
Re: The Original Sin by BETATRON(m): 12:44am On Nov 30, 2015
Medicis:
Have u considered this versesIsaiah 43:27
Verse Concepts
"Your first forefather sinned, And your spokesmen have transgressed against Me.

Exodus 20:5
Verse Concepts
"You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,

Exodus 34:7
Verse Concepts
who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations."

Numbers 14:18
Verse Concepts
'The LORD is slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, forgiving iniquity and transgression; but He will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generations.'

Deuteronomy 5:9
Verse Concepts
'You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,

Job 21:19
Verse Concepts
"You say, 'God stores away a man's iniquity for his sons.' Let God repay him so that he may know it.

Isaiah 14:21
Verse Concepts
"Prepare for his sons a place of slaughter Because of the iniquity of their fathers. They must not arise and take possession of the earth And fill the face of the world with cities."

Isaiah 65:7
Verse Concepts
Both their own iniquities and the iniquities of their fathers together," says the LORD "Because they have burned incense on the mountains And scorned Me on the hills, Therefore I will measure their former work into their bosom."

Jeremiah 31:29
Verse Concepts
"In those days they will not say again, 'The fathers have eaten sour grapes, And the children's teeth are set on edge.'


Jeremiah 32:18
Verse Concepts
who shows lovingkindness to thousands, but repays the iniquity of fathers into the bosom of their children after them, O great and mighty God The LORD of hosts is His name;

Lamentations 5:7
Verse Concepts
Our fathers sinned, and are no more; It is we who have borne their iniquities.

Psalm 17:14
Verse Concepts
From men with Your hand, O LORD, From men of the world, whose portion is in this life, And whose belly You fill with Your treasure; They are satisfied with children, And leave their abundance to their babes.

Isaiah 14:20
Verse Concepts
"You will not be united with them in burial, Because you have ruined your country, You have slain your people. May the offspring of evildoers not be mentioned forever.

Ezekiel 20:4
"Will you judge them, will you judge them, son of man? Make them know the abominations of their fathers;

Zechariah 1:2
Verse Concepts
"The LORD was very angry with your fathers
didn't ask you to quote all the biblical verses,,I only seek an explanation to the contradiction,,and obviously these doesn't answer that which you quoted

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