Jolliano:

Ex 20:4 talks against worshiping images not making them. In Exodus 25:18-20, Moses is commanded to make images.

The problem some have is the idea of making an image of Jesus, Mary and other saints and events. They say that God did not directly command us to make those images but then Jesus did not command his disciples to write anything down but they wrote the Gospels. God did not command anyone to make the Bible in the Bible, but The Catholic Church did it and everyone accepts the bible.

So why accept the bible and reject the images? It is the same mentality and the Same people that gave them to us.

Did ur pope tell u that the bible is his?

preetyb:

Did ur pope tell u that the bible is his?

None of the Popes would ever say the bible is his. The point is that the Catholic Church in 382 A.D. determined which books were true and which books were not. From the books which were true, they chose the earliest ones and declared them as the NT. And everyone accepted and still accepts it. Nobody until Martin Luther challenged it.

There was no direct command from God to make a bible but it was done and everyone accepted and still accepts it.

preetyb:

Yes because even a child that can read and understand the bible can point out those flaws to u in the catholic doctrine. Mind u this is not about me or where I worship but about what is written in the blble that all who have eyes can see, read and understand.

The above is your own teaching.

Is the above perfect or imperfect?

preetyb:

Did ur pope tell u that the bible is his?

You're dodging the question.

Why is the image of Mary bad but the book of John good.

God didn't command both of them to be made.

italo:


You're dodging the question.

Why is the image of Mary bad but the book of John good.

God didn't command both of them to be made.

No body told u the image of mary is bad but the worship of her image or any other image is what is called idolatry and that is not just bad but a Sin before God. Just so u know, no one is taking abt the bible itself but the words in it. Besides even without these words been written down, God can still say it to our hearing himself. So ur pope did not say nor formed the words in the bible but God did. It is God's words and there is life in those words. And this is sumtin ur almighty pope and every other person can not make to be.

italo:

The above is your own teaching.
Is the above perfect or imperfect?

Please answer your question for me

Jolliano:


None of the Popes would ever say the bible is his. The point is that the Catholic Church in 382 A.D. determined which books were true and which books were not. From the books which were true, they chose the earliest ones and declared them as the NT. And everyone accepted and still accepts it. Nobody until Martin Luther challenged it.

There was no direct command from God to make a bible but it was done and everyone accepted and still accepts it.

Because Gods words carries some kind of conviction that is even beyond the imagination of your pope. We accepted it and it is still being accepted not because of who wrote it but because of the devine power in the words and the special conviction it possess

preetyb:

Please answer your question for me

The question is for you. It is your teaching.

If you are afraid to answer it because doing so will reveal the inconsistency in your position, just say so...

...instead of all these evading tactics.

Is your teaching perfect or imperfect?

italo:


The question is for you. It is your teaching.

If you are afraid to answer it because doing so will reveal the inconsistency in your position, just say so...

...instead of all these evading tactics.

Is your teaching perfect or imperfect?

It is perfect

preetyb:


No body told u the image of mary is bad but the worship of her image or any other image is what is called idolatry and that is not just bad but a Sin before God. Just so u know, no one is taking abt the bible itself but the words in it. Besides even without these words been written down, God can still say it to our hearing himself. So ur pope did not say nor formed the words in the bible but God did. It is God's words and there is life in those words. And this is sumtin ur almighty pope and every other person can not make to be.

It is the Pope, after choosing the books, that said the chosen books are God's word.

If the Pope had chosen "The Gospel of Barnabas," "The Acts of Peter," "The Acts of Paul," you would have called them God's word.

Now that you say there's nothing wrong with Mary's image, can you wait until someone tells you he's a Mary Image worshipper before you complain?

preetyb:

It is perfect

1. So all Christians for the first 1500 years of Christianity were wrong and you right?

2. Do you teach or believe any imperfect doctrine?

Or all the doctrines you believe and teach are perfect?

preetyb:

Because Gods words carries some kind of conviction that is even beyond the imagination of your pope. We accepted it and it is still being accepted not because of who wrote it but because of the devine power in the words and the special conviction it possess

You accept it because the Pope included it.

If the Pope had chosen Gospel of Barnabas, you'd be saying it has conviction.

preetyb:

Because Gods words carries some kind of conviction that is even beyond the imagination of your pope. We accepted it and it is still being accepted not because of who wrote it but because of the devine power in the words and the special conviction it possess.

1. You say you accept it because of "Divine power and Special Conviction".

So if I write a book and you feel or discover that it has "Divine Power and the special conviction", you will add it to the bible.

2. One thing is clear, the early christians and anti-christians wrote a lot of books and some of those that had "the special conviction and divine power" were not added to the bible.

Why?

3. If you as a protestant feel that all 27 books contain "divine power and special conviction" and The Founder of Protestanism Martin Luther taught that James and Revelations did not have "the divine power and special conviction", then one of you is wrong. Or would you say that James and Revelation lost their "divine power and special conviction" during the time of Luther and later the books got them back?

4. The Pope did not determine this alone. A council did.

Jolliano:


1. You say you accept it because of "Divine power and Special Conviction".

So if I write a book and you feel or discover that it has "Divine Power and the special conviction", you will add it to the bible.

2. One thing is clear, the early christians and anti-christians wrote a lot of books and some of those that had "the special conviction and divine power" were not added to the bible.

Why?

3. If you as a protestant feel that all 27 books contain "divine power and special conviction" and The Founder of Protestanism Martin Luther taught that James and Revelations did not have "the divine power and special conviction", then one of you is wrong. Or would you say that James and Revelation lost their "divine power and special conviction" during the time of Luther and later the books got them back?

4. The Pope did not determine this alone. A council did.

I stopped querying the Catholic doctrines the day I realised that they compiled the Bible.....sorting out what should be included and weeding out the "supposed" non essentials.
I will like to have assess to the Gnostic books ....the books of Philip etc to know what the fuss is all about.
Someone commented that Catholics knows the origin and stories surrounding the Bible that's why they care less what anybody is saying about its doctrines. I kinda agree to an extent though. With the little they compiled confusion abounds, what would've happened if the whole Gnostic and other heresy-filled books where added.? Total disintegration of Christendom .

Jolliano:




If you have a document, show it so everyone can see it. No document = No proof/Evidence = No Case just pure hatred.

You're the one trying to prove a case. You're the one to present your data but you don't post anything and expect a reply. If I reply to every stat ement made by people like you, we go dey reply almost every second of every day.

Present your proof of your argument and then we will see if na lie or not.

Hahahaha i tot u trusted urself. When u get moral, u kno wot to do.

Jolliano:


1. You say you accept it because of "Divine power and Special Conviction".

So if I write a book and you feel or discover that it has "Divine Power and the special conviction", you will add it to the bible.

2. One thing is clear, the early christians and anti-christians wrote a lot of books and some of those that had "the special conviction and divine power" were not added to the bible.

Why?

3. If you as a protestant feel that all 27 books contain "divine power and special conviction" and The Founder of Protestanism Martin Luther taught that James and Revelations did not have "the divine power and special conviction", then one of you is wrong. Or would you say that James and Revelation lost their "divine power and special conviction" during the time of Luther and later the books got them back?

4. The Pope did not determine this alone. A council did.

. I can not answer ur question bcus I don't knw their reason for doing it. But one thing I know is the fact that the bible is not like any other book we read to gain knowledge alone. it is a special kind of book because it contains the words of God.

italo:


1. So all Christians for the first 1500 years of Christianity were wrong and you right?

2. Do you teach or believe any imperfect doctrine?

Or all the doctrines you believe and teach are perfect?

Did I preach anything that is not inside the bible to You.

preetyb:
. I can not answer ur question bcus I don't knw their reason for doing it. But one thing I know is the fact that the bible is not like any other book we read to gain knowledge alone. it is a special kind of book because it contains the words of God.

And you are sure that those books gathered together as the Bible are divinely inspired because the Catholic Church made that canon (list). Admitting this won't cost you anything. Even Martin Luther admitted this in one of his sermons.

LadyFiona:
I stopped querying the Catholic doctrines the day I realised that they compiled the Bible.....sorting out what should be included and weeding out the "supposed" non essentials.
I will like to have assess to the Gnostic books ....the books of Philip etc to know what the fuss is all about.
Someone commented that Catholics knows the origin and stories surrounding the Bible that's why they care less what anybody is saying about its doctrines. I kinda agree to an extent though. With the little they compiled confusion abounds, what would've happened if the whole Gnostic and other heresy-filled books where added.? Total disintegration of Christendom .

Exactly. Even The Bible warns us of private interpretation. Every protestant church claims to follow the SAME bible and to be directed by the SAME Holy Spirit. How come they don't have the SAME doctrines and teachings?

preetyb:

Did I preach anything that is not inside the bible to You.

Yes. You said most Catholic doctrines are flawed. You said no Church has the perfect doctrine. Nowhere does the bible say those.

Besides why is it hard for you to answer questions. Are you hiding something?

1. So all Christians for the first 1500 years of Christianity were wrong and you right?

2. Do you teach or believe any imperfect doctrine?

Or all the doctrines you believe and teach are perfect?

&3. What is the pillar and foundation of truth...the Bible or the Church?

italo:


Yes. You said most Catholic doctrines are flawed. You said no Church has the perfect doctrine. Nowhere does the bible say those.

Besides why is it hard for you to answer questions. Are you hiding something?

1. So all Christians for the first 1500 years of Christianity were wrong and you right?

2. Do you teach or believe any imperfect doctrine?

Or all the doctrines you believe and teach are perfect?

&3. What is the pillar and foundation of truth...the Bible or the Church?

I have no doctrine of my own to teach any one. Whatever I told you is base on what I read in the bible. I am a human therefore not perfect. And yes I believe in any doctrine that is in line with the bible. Because I go to a church does not mean I find all its doctrine perfect but becaus I can still lead my self aright with what is written in the bible. The bible is my standard. Because we call sumtin a doctrine does not mean we should Not acknowledge its flaws and accept the Amendment necessary in accordance.

The pillar and foundation of truth is the word of God written in the bible.
Its not about my being wrong or write but about the standard of God which is written in the bible.

preetyb:

I have no doctrine of my own to teach any one. Whatever I told you is base on what I read in the bible. I am a human therefore not perfect. And yes I believe in any doctrine that is in line with the bible. Because I go to a church does not mean I find all its doctrine perfect but becaus I can still lead my self aright with what is written in the bible. The bible is my standard. Because we call sumtin a doctrine does not mean we should Not acknowledge its flaws and accept the Amendment necessary in accordance.

Since you're imperfect, is it possible for you to misunderstand what you read in the Bible...or you're perfect in your understanding of the Bible?

preetyb:

The pillar and foundation of truth is the word of God written in the bible.
Its not about my being wrong or write but about the standard of God which is written in the bible.

But the Catholic Church says the pillar and foundation of the truth is the Church. Is that another flawed doctrine of theirs...or is it yours that is flawed?

italo:


Since you're imperfect, is it possible for you to misunderstand what you read in the Bible...or you're perfect in your understanding of the Bible?


But the Catholic Church says the pillar and foundation of the truth is the Church. Is that another flawed doctrine of theirs...or is it yours that is flawed?

You have the answer to the question u asked already

preetyb:

You have the answer to the question u asked already

No I don't...because you have been dribbling around all through.

1. Since you're imperfect, is it possible for you to misunderstand what you read in the Bible...or you're perfect in your understanding of the Bible?


2. But the Catholic Church says the pillar and foundation of the truth is the Church. Is that another flawed doctrine of theirs...or is it yours that is flawed?

italo:


No I don't...because you have been dribbling around all through.

1. Since you're imperfect, is it possible for you to misunderstand what you read in the Bible...or you're perfect in your understanding of the Bible?


2. But the Catholic Church says the pillar and foundation of the truth is the Church. Is that another flawed doctrine of theirs...or is it yours that is flawed?

What they say is not my business but Christians should always read the bible and ask the holy spirit for the understanding of what they Read. The church may collapse or may even stop existing but God's word will remain.

preetyb:


What they say is not my business but Christians should always read the bible and ask the holy spirit for the understanding of what they Read. The church may collapse or may even stop existing but God's word will remain.

Firstly, I appreciate your honesty and zeal to follow the truth. I hope we can have a sensible discussion that will benefit everyone.

1. The Pillar and Foundation of truth is not the word of God. 1 Tim 3:15 says the Church is the Pillar and Foundation of the truth.
Now if the Church Christ founded is the Pillar and Foundation and the Holy Spirit came down at Pentecost to guide them into all truth, How then would they teach error or fall into falsehood? Would Christ who promised to be with the Church
and The Holy Spirit who is to guide the Church allow the Church fall into error?


2. The Church will never cease to exist for a lot of reasons. Firstly, Jesus promised to be with the Church for all time.
Secondly, Matt 16:17 - 19. "... I will build my Church and the Gates of Hell will never prevail against it"

preetyb:


What they say is not my business but Christians should always read the bible and ask the holy spirit for the understanding of what they Read. The church may collapse or may even stop existing but God's word will remain.

Oh! After claiming that the Catholic Church teaches error, suddenly 'what they say is not your business.' lmao!

Why are you afraid to answer my simple questions suddenly? Are you trying to cover up your falsehood?

Here they are again: please answer with honesty and Christian simplicity.

Since you're imperfect, is it possible for you to misunderstand what you read in the Bible...or you're perfect in your understanding of the Bible?


But the Catholic Church says the pillar and foundation of the truth is the Church. Is that another flawed doctrine of theirs...or is it yours that is flawed?

preetyb:


What they say is not my business but Christians should always read the bible and ask the holy spirit for the understanding of what they Read. The church may collapse or may even stop existing but God's word will remain.

Is it the Holy Spirit that gave you the understanding that:

1. 'The Bible is the pillar and foundation of truth?'

2. The Church may cease to exist?

3. Catholic doctrines are flawed?

Be sincere. Please, don't dare lie against the Holy Spirit.

italo:

Is it the Holy Spirit that gave you the understanding that:
1. 'The Bible is the pillar and foundation of truth?'
2. The Church may cease to exist?
3. Catholic doctrines are flawed?
Be sincere. Please, don't dare lie against the Holy Spirit.

Lol. You just want me to keep talking Anyways no.

italo:


Oh! After claiming that the Catholic Church teaches error, suddenly 'what they say is not your business.' lmao!

Why are you afraid to answer my simple questions suddenly? Are you trying to cover up your falsehood?

Here they are again: please answer with honesty and Christian simplicity.

Since you're imperfect, is it possible for you to misunderstand what you read in the Bible...or you're perfect in your understanding of the Bible?


But the Catholic Church says the pillar and foundation of the truth is the Church. Is that another flawed doctrine of theirs...or is it yours that is flawed?

Do u think that the catholic church have a perfect doctrine?

Jolliano:


Firstly, I appreciate your honesty and zeal to follow the truth. I hope we can have a sensible discussion that will benefit everyone.

1. The Pillar and Foundation of truth is not the word of God. 1 Tim 3:15 says the Church is the Pillar and Foundation of the truth.
Now if the Church Christ founded is the Pillar and Foundation and the Holy Spirit came down at Pentecost to guide them into all truth, How then would they teach error or fall into falsehood? Would Christ who promised to be with the Church
and The Holy Spirit who is to guide the Church allow the Church fall into error?


2. The Church will never cease to exist for a lot of reasons. Firstly, Jesus promised to be with the Church for all time.
Secondly, Matt 16:17 - 19. "... I will build my Church and the Gates of Hell will never prevail against it"

True but that does not mean some churches have not stop existing and many more may stop existing because they were/are not built on the foundation of truth

preetyb:

True but that does not mean some churches have not stop existing and many more may stop existing because they were/are not built on the foundation of truth

Exactly. Christ said I will build my Church. Not churches.

Therefore, there can only be one Church and it must have existed right from the time of the Christ and the Apostles down to our time.

Question is : Which Church is that?