GuyFawkes:


Oops I forgot my birthday!
Well it's my birthday and it isn't,tanx anyway.
How you doin?

Nor be today dem kill you.

TO ALL, BE CAREFULL WITH THE CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA, I HAVE SAID BEFORE THAT IT CONTAINS THE OPINIONS OF ITS WRITERS ON HISTORICAL MATTERS. ITS SCHOLARSHIP MAY BE OUT DATED ON A FEW SUBJECTS.

[quote author=Sarassin post=38974230]


Here are the words of Tertullian before he turned his back on orthodoxy.

Da Praescriptione haereticorum, 38

"..........Corruption of the Scriptures and of their interpretation
is to be expected wherever difference in doctrine is discovered.
Those who proposed to teach differently were of necessity
driven to tamper with the literature of doctrine, for they could
not have taught differently had they not possessed different
sources of teaching….."


For good measure here is Dionysius, Bishop of Corinth.

".........When my fellow-Christians invited me to write letters to them I did
so. These the devil’s apostles have filled with tares, taking away some
things and adding others. For them the woe is reserved. Small wonder
then if some have dared to tamper even with the word of the Lord
himself, when they have conspired to mutilate my own humble efforts......"[\QUOTE]
THEY SEEMS TO BE BLAMING HERETICS NOT PROVIDING PROOF THAT ALL IS UNRELIABLE

JMAN05:


TheThe apostles had a congregation to preached to while they were alive. They also had companions who never toiled with there writing. Stephen, Paul, Peter and others were preachers of the goodnews in many countries. Paul, Peter, James, Jude and others wrote letters to congregations and individuals. These congregations they formed, read this letters and sent copies to other congregations. In short, there activities were piloted from Jerusalem by the apostles and the older men, (acts 16:4,5).

These congregations were still in existence after the apostles demise, and there letters were still observed by those different Congs. As such, you need not go to those who are not known to have followed the teaching of these apostles/disciples to obtain what is true teachings of Christ. Ebionites are heretics as the scriptures indicate.

Can you name some prominent members of these congregations?

[quote author=Ubenedictus post=40936880][/quote]

It is an easy claim to state that Tertullian et al were referring to heretics, but clearly they were not. Dionysius refers to "His fellow Christians", Origen and Tertullian are describing fellow Christians also. Textual alterations as well as forgery was rife during the period of early Christianity.

You should perhaps read the everlasting curse that is contained in the Book of Revelations 22v18, the author was referring specifically to scribes who would alter his work.

Ubenedictus:
TO ALL, BE CAREFULL WITH THE CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA, I HAVE SAID BEFORE THAT IT CONTAINS THE OPINIONS OF ITS WRITERS ON HISTORICAL MATTERS. ITS SCHOLARSHIP MAY BE OUT DATED ON A FEW SUBJECTS.

Funny you should state the above. I think exactly the same about the bible.

PastorAIO:

Can you name some prominent members of these congregations?

HMMMM

PastorAIO:

Can you name some prominent members of these congregations?

HMMMM

Ubenedictus:
HMMMM

Are you training to be a singer? Because you are doing a lot of humming. I heard it's good for warming up the voice.

PastorAIO:


Can you name some prominent members of these congregations?

I tot u had a bible.

JMAN05:


I tot u had a bible.

The bible stops long before the demise of the last apostle. You were talking about the period after the the apostles died were you not.

JMAN05:

These congregations were still in existence after the apostles demise, and there letters were still observed by those different Congs. As such, you need not go to those who are not known to have followed the teaching of these apostles/disciples to obtain what is true teachings of Christ. Ebionites are heretics as the scriptures indicate.

PastorAIO:


Are you training to be a singer? Because you are doing a lot of humming. I heard it's good for warming up the voice.

I HAVE TO, YOUR QUESTION IS HEAVY.

Sarassin:


It is an easy claim to state that Tertullian et al were referring to heretics, but clearly they were not. Dionysius refers to "His fellow Christians", Origen and Tertullian are describing fellow Christians also. Textual alterations as well as forgery was rife during the period of early Christianity.

You should perhaps read the everlasting curse that is contained in the Book of Revelations 22v18, the author was referring specifically to scribes who would alter his work.

ACTUALLY THE WRITING U QUOTED CLEARLY SAYS 'FALSE APOSTLES' TAMPERED WITH THE WORK. KINDLY READ AGAIN.

PastorAIO:


The bible stops long before the demise of the last apostle. You were talking about the period after the the apostles died were you not.

Check my comment you bolded earlier. With that, you can find ur answer from the bible.

JMAN05:


Check my comment you bolded earlier. With that, you can find ur answer from the bible.

I didn't see any names in the bolded section. Let me ask you again: Can you name some prominent members of these congregations?

Obviously, unless they were named in a prophecy, their name cannot be in the bible which had been written before their time.

Of course if you can't answer, or you are afraid to answer because it will expose you as a fraud and a believer in fictions, that is okay. I won't press you any further.

PastorAIO:


I didn't see any names in the bolded section. Let me ask you again: Can you name some prominent members of these congregations?

Obviously, unless they were named in a prophecy, their name cannot be in the bible which had been written before their time.

Of course if you can't answer, or you are afraid to answer because it will expose you as a fraud and a believer in fictions, that is okay. I won't press you any further.

Small thing, people go dey brag.

See my comment you quoted:

These congregations were still in existence after the apostles demise, and there letters were still observed by those different Congs.

You are asking for the prominent member? Read Philemon 2, Rom 16;1. Compare Rom 16:8-15.

If that is not what you were asking for, you make ur question clear. Don't make it seem as if I want to avoid something. U shud make ursef clear.

PastorAIO:


I didn't see any names in the bolded section. Let me ask you again: Can you name some prominent members of these congregations?

Obviously, unless they were named in a prophecy, their name cannot be in the bible which had been written before their time.

Of course if you can't answer, or you are afraid to answer because it will expose you as a fraud and a believer in fictions, that is okay. I won't press you any further.

HEHEHEHE

JMAN05:


Small thing, people go dey brag.

See my comment you quoted:

These congregations were still in existence after the apostles demise, and there letters were still observed by those different Congs.

You are asking for the prominent member? Read Philemon 2, Rom 16;1. Compare Rom 16:8-15.

If that is not what you were asking for, you make ur question clear. Don't make it seem as if I want to avoid something. U shud make ursef clear.

I THINK HE WANTS U TO NAME NAMES.

These people were alive during the time of the apostles and further more some of them were even christians before some apostles. But let us pretend that that humongous fact doesn't matter, just for the sake of argument.

Let us pick one. Apphia, mentioned in Philemon 2. What True teachings of christ did you receive from Apphia? What letter or book did Apphia write from which you obtained the true teachings of Christ? If Apphia is too hard you can pick any of the other personalities that you mentioned.

Abi, didn't you say:
These congregations were still in existence after the apostles demise, and there letters were still observed by those different Congs. As such, you need not go to those who are not known to have followed the teaching of these apostles/disciples to obtain what is true teachings of Christ.

So after the apostles demise, please what teachings of Christ's apostles did you get from Apphia (or any one you care to pick).

JMAN05:


Small thing, people go dey brag.

See my comment you quoted:

These congregations were still in existence after the apostles demise, and there letters were still observed by those different Congs.

You are asking for the prominent member? Read Philemon 2, Rom 16;1. Compare Rom 16:8-15.

If that is not what you were asking for, you make ur question clear. Don't make it seem as if I want to avoid something. U shud make ursef clear.

This is getting really interesting. Waiting for your response JMAN05

Very Interesting. JMAN05 we're waiting for your answers.

Ubenedictus:
ACTUALLY THE WRITING U QUOTED CLEARLY SAYS 'FALSE APOSTLES' TAMPERED WITH THE WORK. KINDLY READ AGAIN.

I think you are flogging a dead horse with this. The tone of the comments are quite clear, they were called false apostles, devil's tares and so on and so forth ...after the fact.

Sarassin:


I think you are flogging a dead horse with this. The tone of the comments are quite clear, they were called false apostles, devil's tares and so on and so forth ...after the fact.

AGAIN U MISUNDERSTAND, HE CLAIMS THE LETTER WAS WRITTEN TO FELLOW xtians but corrupted by d heretics who he calls false apostles i encourage u to kindly read again.

PastorAIO:
These people were alive during the time of the apostles and further more some of them were even christians before some apostles. But let us pretend that that humongous fact doesn't matter, just for the sake of argument.

Let us pick one. Apphia, mentioned in Philemon 2. What True teachings of christ did you receive from Apphia? What letter or book did Apphia write from which you obtained the true teachings of Christ? If Apphia is too hard you can pick any of the other personalities that you mentioned.

Abi, didn't you say:
These congregations were still in existence after the apostles demise, and there letters were still observed by those different Congs. As such, you need not go to those who are not known to have followed the teaching of these apostles/disciples to obtain what is true teachings of Christ.

So after the apostles demise, please what teachings of Christ's apostles did you get from Apphia (or any one you care to pick).

Those I mentioned are sure Christians. However, we do not have any writing as yet attributed to them. But the point is, the congregations the apostles preached to were still running even after the death of the apostles. It would be unreasonable to think that the Ebionites, who werent followers of Christ to give us an authentic account of Jesus live. Some people like Papias, Polycarp, Ignatius, Clement are known to have been part of the early congregations. So why go to the Ebionites?

Ubenedictus:
AGAIN U MISUNDERSTAND, HE CLAIMS THE LETTER WAS WRITTEN TO FELLOW xtians but corrupted by d heretics who he calls false apostles i encourage u to kindly read again.

There is no call for the capitalisations, it is considered shouting and poor netiquette....

Yes Dionysus wrote letters to "his fellow Christians" but who exactly were those he referred to as false apostles, heretics e.t.c? they were the copyists and the scribes, those who transcribed various letters for onwards transmission to other groups of Christians, they inserted, redacted and generally amended scripture as they saw fit, many early extant documents prove this, they were also Christians. This is why you have that horrible curse in the book of revelations against tampering . As you may well know in those days, letters or scripture were generally read out in public, few could actually read.

Double post

JMAN05:


Those I mentioned are sure Christians. However, we do not have any writing as yet attributed to them. But the point is, the congregations the apostles preached to were still running even after the death of the apostles. It would be unreasonable to think that the Ebionites, who werent followers of Christ to give us an authentic account of Jesus live. Some people like Papias, Polycarp, Ignatius, Clement are known to have been part of the early congregations. So why go to the Ebionites?

Thank you so much for your cooperation. It took a while but we got there in the end.

Sarassin:


There is no call for the capitalisations, it is considered shouting and poor netiquette....

Yes Dionysus wrote letters to "his fellow Christians" but who exactly were those he referred to as false apostles, heretics e.t.c? they were the copyists and the scribes, those who transcribed various letters for onwards transmission to other groups of Christians, they inserted, redacted and generally amended scripture as they saw fit, many early extant documents prove this, they were also Christians. This is why you have that horrible curse in the book of revelations against tampering . As you may well know in those days, letters or scripture were generally read out in public, few could actually read.

I'M NOT TRYING TO INSULT. I HAVE A LITTLE PROBLEM WITH MY KEYBOARD, THAT IS Y MY POST ARE IN CAPITAL LETTERS AND USUALLY CONTAIN FEW WORDS. I THINK U MAY HAVE AGREED WITH ME UNKNOWINGLY. THOSE WHO TEMPERED WITH THE LETTERS WERE THE HERETICS

JMAN05:


Those I mentioned are sure Christians. However, we do not have any writing as yet attributed to them. But the point is, the congregations the apostles preached to were still running even after the death of the apostles. It would be unreasonable to think that the Ebionites, who werent followers of Christ to give us an authentic account of Jesus live. Some people like Papias, Polycarp, Ignatius, Clement are known to have been part of the early congregations. So why go to the Ebionites?

LET ME ASK YOU OUT OF CURIOSITY, HAVE YOU EVER READ D WRITINGS OF THE PEOPLE U NAMED ABOVE ON THE TEACHINGS THEY RECEIVED FROM THE APOSTLES?

Ubenedictus:
LET ME ASK YOU OUT OF CURIOSITY, HAVE YOU EVER READ D WRITINGS OF THE PEOPLE U NAMED ABOVE ON THE TEACHINGS THEY RECEIVED FROM THE APOSTLES?

Why do u ask?

JMAN05:


Those I mentioned are sure Christians. However, we do not have any writing as yet attributed to them. But the point is, the congregations the apostles preached to were still running even after the death of the apostles. It would be unreasonable to think that the Ebionites, who werent followers of Christ to give us an authentic account of Jesus live. Some people like Papias, Polycarp, Ignatius, Clement are known to have been part of the early congregations. So why go to the Ebionites?

@bolded, why would you state that the Ebionites were not followers of Christ?

Sarassin:


@bolded, why would you state that the Ebionites were not followers of Christ?

Its obvious.