I've been seeing many theist here (christians and muslims, and sometimes catholics vs non catholics) arguing about how their religion is true and those that do not accept their religion are either blind, arrogant or foolish. What I have never heard from any of the theist arguing in support of one religion or the other is providing an objective way through which we will all test and know which religion is true. How do we objectively know that Islam is true and Christianity is false and vice versa? Where is the objective test to prove any of these religious claim? What methodology can be used to test and verify it? How can other religions also be shown to be false, what methodology do they need to fail for us to know that they are false? Instead of repeating what you have been coerced and indoctrinated with since childhood, why don't the theist here do something different and show us with objective evidence why their religion is true and other religions are false.

KingEbukasBlog.

skepticism and evidence...

If it's a religion then it already begins to fail to be correct.

dalaman:
I've been seeing many theist here (christians and muslims, and sometimes catholics vs non catholics) arguing about how their religion is true and those that do not accepted their religion are either blind, arrogant or foolish. What I have never heard from any of the theist arguing in support of one religion or the other is providing an objective way through which we will all test and know which religion is true. How do we objectively know that Islam is true and Christianity is false and vice versa? Where is the objective test to prove any of these religious claim? What methodology can be used to test and verify it? How can other religions also be shown to be false, what methodology do they need to fail for us to know that they are false? Instead of repeating what you have been coerced and indoctrinated with since childhood, why don't they theist here do something different and show us with objective evidence why their religion is true and other religions are false.

Scrutinizing :

1.The Tenets

2. Spirituality

3. Concept of the creator

4. Relationship with Deity/Creator - How a believer of that religion relates with his deity

KingEbukaNaija:


Scrutinizing :

1.The Tenets

2. Spirituality

3. Concept of the creator

4. Relationship with Deity/Creator - How a believer of that religion relates with his deity

1. Christianity has no universally accepted doctrine.
2. No universally accepted spiritual concept or experience in Christianity that can be measured or tested. Each sect have their own concept of spirituality.
3. Vague because all believe in different creation concept and process. Old earth creationist vs young earth creationists.
4. Vague concept as well because it isn't well defined. The Catholic Church for example says you can't have a personal relationship with God without the whole church as a body and they are christians. So FAIL! You haven't even attempted to provide any objective means with which we can know which religion is true.

dalaman:


1. Christianity has no universally accepted doctrine.
2. No universally accepted spiritual concept or experience in Christianity that can be measured or tested. Each sect have their own concept of spirituality.
3. Vague because all believe in different creation concept and process. Old earth creationist vs new earth creationists.
4. Vague concept as well because it isn't well defined. The Catholic Church for example says you can't have a personal relationship with God without the whole church as a body and they are christians.

Lol . Swipes at christianity all ready ? I thought you had the intention to find out the true religion from the lots we have .

You couldn't wait to spew it even conveniently

KingEbukaNaija:


Lol . Swipes at christianity all ready ? I thought you had the intention to find out the true religion from the lots we have .

You couldn't wait to spew it even conveniently

You are a Christian so I was just cutting the chase. Obviously you can't be defending Islam or Shinto religion.

dalaman:


You are a Christian so I was just cutting the chase. Obviously you can't be defending Islam or Shinto religion.

You've claimed to have knowledge of numerous religions notably Islam and Hindu . We can start from there . Following the aforementioned four ways off course

KingEbukaNaija:


Lol . Swipes at christianity all ready ? I thought you had the intention to find out the true religion from the lots we have .

You couldn't wait to spew it even conveniently

All he did was refute your evidence and now you're saying he's attacking your religion.

Why?

KingEbukaNaija:


You've claimed to have knowledge of numerous religions notably Islam and Hindu . We can start from there . Following the aforementioned four ways off course

Ok. State why the Christian faith is better than them with objective evidence using the criteria you outlined.

KingEbukaNaija:


Lol . Swipes at christianity all ready ? I thought you had the intention to find out the true religion from the lots we have .

You couldn't wait to spew it even conveniently

don't mind him bro, he want arguments not answer.

https://www.nairaland.com/1999485/all-religions-lead-god-one
Agnostics often fall into two camps - those who believe that all religions can lead to God or those who believe that true religion cannot be discerned. This page examines both positions in an attempt to determine where the truth may lie. Logically, there are several possibilities. Atheists would say that no religion leads to God, since He doesn't exist. It is possible that one, several or all religions lead to God. ALL WAYS LEAD TO GOD: There are hundreds of religions in the world today, and many ancient religions that are no longer practiced. It is possible, and perhaps likely, that all religions contain some truth and/ or good moral advice. However, in examining religious teaching, it is important to examine the fundamental beliefs of each religion and compare those to each other. When this is done, it is apparent that primary religious teachings contradict each other. Judaism says that the Messiah is coming, Christianity says that He has come, and Islam says that Mohammad provided all the information necessary for religious life. Obviously, these truth claims cannot be simultaneously true, since they contradict each other. Logically, we must reject the idea that all religions lead to God. TRUE RELIGEON:IS IT POSSIBLE TO DISCERN? I believe that there are some things that we can discern about God from the nature of the universe. The universe demonstrates some remarkable evidence of design. What kind of God designed all this, and how can we know His true identity? Most people who believe God exists would agree with the argument that the God who designed the universe must be a personal God. For God to put so much time and care into the design of the universe and life, it would seem logical to conclude that God really cared about His creation, and was personally involved in it's creation. A God who did not care about his creation would never be expected to spend 14 billion years of development just so that humans would have a nice place to live for a few thousand years. Therefore, it would seem likely that the true God must be a personal God, and not the God of deism, pantheism, Buddhism, etc. So, it would seem that these religions probably do not represent the true nature of God. ELIMINATE THE ILLOGICAL: The powerful and personal Creator God of the universe would probably want to reveal Himself to His spiritual creatures. So, it seems likely that God would have revealed His true nature to one or more of the peoples of the earth. Are all the revelations of the world religions a reflection of God or just certain one(s)? This is the difficult question that cannot be answered in merely one short page. However, I believe one can come up with a best answer through much study and through the process of elimination. For example, some religions make truth claims that are obviously false. The LDS church (Mormons) claims that gods are created through procreation and that creatures created by those gods can eventually become gods themselves. However, this religion suffers from the problem of how the first god came into existence. Logic would dictate that God is eternal and uncreated. All religions that claim otherwise would seem to be logically flawed. BASIC RELIGEON CLAIM: Since many religious claims contradict one another, it would seem that not all religions could be simultaneously true. How can we tell which religion(s) are true? If you examine the world religions, most describe ethical and moral laws that are ascribed to God. Breaking of those laws is an offense to God. How do different religions handle that problem? Many religions say that if one tries to obey God's laws most of the time, God will accept you. However, I believe that we can eliminate that idea as being true of the Creator God of the universe. God designed physical laws of the universe. These laws are constant and unbreakable. God Himself, seems to break those physical laws only rarely. I propose that this God would not accept the breaking of His moral laws so easily. In fact, from the nature of the physical laws, it would seem that God would not accept the breaking of His moral laws at all. Nearly all religions claim that God will ignore our breaking of His moral laws as long as we try our best. This is where Christianity differs from all other world religions. Christianity says that our good works cannot erase our bad moral choices. Think of it in terms of our legal systems. We are convicted of crimes on the basis of breaking the law. If we break a law, we are found guilty under the law. It doesn't matter what good things we have done in our lives, if we break the law. We might get a lesser sentence, but we will still be convicted of a crime. So, God cannot simply ignore our crimes against Him. We will be found guilty, despite our good works. Christianity says that our bad deeds (sins) must be eliminated in order to be acceptable to God. The elimination of sins was accomplished by the sacrifice of the Savior (Jesus Christ). Jesus Christ is God Himself, who came to earth, led a sinless life, and died on the cross as a sacrifice to take the sins of mankind. So, God Himself provided a means of eliminating our sins against Him. However, the elimination of sins is not automatic. Since God will allow people into His presence after death, they must agree to His terms. This contract is executed through faith in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ to eliminate our sins. By accepting God's terms, our sins are erased and we can stand in the presence of God without any sin. Only our good deeds will be counted for our judgment. Those who don't accept God's terms will be judged on the basis of God's laws - and will be found guilty. CHRISTIANITY IS DIFFERENT : No other religion provides a provision for God's forgiveness of sin, which is why I believe Christianity to be the only true way to God. Jesus said He is the only way to God and that all people must follow Him to enter heaven. All other religions are man's attempt to become acceptable to God. Only Christianity says that God alone provides the only means to be acceptable to Him. So, either Christianity is true and all other religions are false or Christianity is false and God does not hold people accountable for law breaking. Personally, I would not want to rely upon God ignoring His own rules. It doesn't seem to be logical reasoning. This is the choice you must make. CONCLUSION: So, I encourage you to examine the world religions to see if what I am saying is true. Don't give up on the ability to separate the truth claims of the world's religions. If Christianity is true, you must make a choice or you will be judged on the basis of your sins against God. Let me know if you have any questions.

CoolUsername:
All he did was refute your evidence and now you're saying he's attacking your religion.

Why?

Please what does the topic say

^^^ dalaman read All and begin your argument.

KingEbukaNaija:


You've claimed to have knowledge of numerous religions notably Islam and Hindu . We can start from there . Following the aforementioned four ways off course

He is not here to sell neither Islam nor Hinduism.

You, on the other hand, is trying sell yours.

CoolUsername:
All he did was refute your evidence and now you're saying he's attacking your religion.

Why?

what evidence did he provide? He ask him to search for the truth in all religions, the next thing dalaman did was to attack Christianity. Maby its been long dalaman argued.

plaetton:


He is not here to sell neither Islam nor Hinduism.

You, on the other hand, is trying sell yours.

He is selling Christianity indeed. Funny atheists.

KingEbukaNaija:

Scrutinizing :
1.The Tenets
2. Spirituality
3. Concept of the creator
4. Relationship with Deity/Creator - How a believer of that religion relates with his deity

KingEbukaNaija:


Scrutinizing :

1.The Tenets

2. Spirituality

3. Concept of the creator

4. Relationship with Deity/Creator - How a believer of that religion relates with his deity

He is asking for the HOW. The nitty gritty, the criteria. Your answer is like someone asks you: How do you get to the supermarket? and you are expecting 'go straight, turn the 3rd left and then the second right and it's the 3rd block on that street'. But instead you get 'By road'.

You see that the answer 'by road' tells the enquirer nothing and is no answer at all to the question.

Everybody claiming the right religion does so by 'scrutinizing' the tenets, concept of creator etc as you have mentioned BUT they all do it in different ways.

So we need to know HOW. What is the criteria? What are the steps and the stages?

malvisguy212:
don't mind him bro, he want arguments not answer.

You make arguments seem like a bad thing. This is a discussion forum where people with various opinions Argue/debate/discuss their various positions to arrive at a resolution. Unless, you don't want your answer scrutinized and debated against. That's okay, but just say so.

plaetton:


He is not here to sell neither Islam nor Hinduism.

You, on the other hand, is trying sell yours.

Lol

I dont think anyone is selling anything .

dalaman:
I've been seeing many theist here (christians and muslims, and sometimes catholics vs non catholics) arguing about how their religion is true and those that do not accepted their religion are either blind, arrogant or foolish. What I have never heard from any of the theist arguing in support of one religion or the other is providing an objective way through which we will all test and know which religion is true. How do we objectively know that Islam is true and Christianity is false and vice versa? Where is the objective test to prove any of these religious claim? What methodology can be used to test and verify it? How can other religions also be shown to be false, what methodology do they need to fail for us to know that they are false? Instead of repeating what you have been coerced and indoctrinated with since childhood, why don't they theist here do something different and show us with objective evidence why their religion is true and other religions are false.

He asked for a methodology - a method for analysis - I gave him one . Then its left for any interested person on this thread to support my method or provide a better method we can use to determine the true religion .

When that has been settled every religion adherent would scrutinize his religion according to the methodology provided . Obviously the OP had other intentions

malvisguy212:
He is selling Christianity indeed. Funny atheists.

Yap.

By the criteria provided by kingebukasblog, my Toothfairian religion should come out as the best and truest, a subtle point that eludes both you and him.

PastorAIO:


He is asking for the HOW. The nitty gritty, the criteria. Your answer is like someone asks you: How do you get to the supermarket? and you are expecting 'go straight, turn the 3rd left and then the second right and it's the 3rd block on that street'. But instead you get 'By road'.

You see that the answer 'by road' tells the enquirer nothing and is no answer at all to the question.

Everybody claiming the right religion does so by 'scrutinizing' the tenets, concept of creator etc as you have mentioned BUT they all do it in different ways.

Brother AIO I gave him what he asked for - a METHODOLOGY . Or do you want us to use Elijah's method ?

I don't believe in the existence of various religions. I believe there is only one true thing call Religion, and that is the means by which an individual who is alienated from his environment and from God (for want of a better term) can bring about a reconnection.

Just like there is only one true science, which is the science that describes reality accurately, but various scientific theories that have come and sometimes gone into disrepute.

One who has achieved this reconnection will have a certain Peace that others don't have, 1. And there are other traits too that I believe will be exhibited but are beyond where this conversation has reached so far.

dalaman:
I've been seeing many theist here (christians and muslims, and sometimes catholics vs non catholics) arguing about how their religion is true and those that do not accepted their religion are either blind, arrogant or foolish. What I have never heard from any of the theist arguing in support of one religion or the other is providing an objective way through which we will all test and know which religion is true. How do we objectively know that Islam is true and Christianity is false and vice versa? Where is the objective test to prove any of these religious claim? What methodology can be used to test and verify it? How can other religions also be shown to be false, what methodology do they need to fail for us to know that they are false? Instead of repeating what you have been coerced and indoctrinated with since childhood, why don't they theist here do something different and show us with objective evidence why their religion is true and other religions are false.

plaetton:


Yap.

By the criteria provided by kingebukasblog, my Toothfairian religion should come out as the best and truest, a subtle point that eludes both you and him.

Which part , Spirituality ? Or concept of a creator , or relationship with a creator : nothing -> laws of nature -> something -> natural process -> everything

KingEbukaNaija:


Which part , Spirituality ? Or concept of a creator , or relationship with a creator : nothing -> laws of nature -> something -> natural process -> everything

All

KingEbukaNaija:


Brother AIO I gave him what he asked for - a METHODOLOGY . Or do you want us to use Elijah's method ?

Methodology to check what? Use it and tell us how you arrived at the true religion on an objective basis.

Hello to all.

Religion and Spirituality are not one and the same thing. Belonging to a religious group, denominations or movement, is not a requirement to serve/worship God. GOD did not create any church/temple and is therefore not concerned with whatever labels we give ourselves.

Look at the Universe. The sun shines for all of us, irrespective of our religious inclinations. When it rains, it affects everyone Christians and muslims alike. Religion is therefore inconsequential. What matters is how we live in accord with the laws of GOD.

If you are a Buddhist and you sow Potato in a fertile soil, you will reap Potatoes in greater quantity than your original seed (other things held constant). Likewise, if you are a muslim and you sow a mango, the earth will not refuse to produce mango because you are muslim. You will reap Tomatoes according to your seed. Hence the determinant factor here is not your religion, but the simple principle of sowing and reaping.

This analogy shows that what matters is how we conform to the Laws of GOD applied in the whole cosmos, and not our religion. If any religion was indispensable for salvation, God would have made that religion available everywhere at everytime. If not, some individuals born in a certain period of time or locality when/where that religion is not available would be disadvantaged, and it contradicts the Justice of GOD.

Thus, we should struggle to bestir our spirit and listen to the voice of GOD with our heart, for our heart is equipped with the necessary tools to perceive the Truth and worship God.

I wish you all blessings.

malvisguy212:
https://www.nairaland.com/1999485/all-religions-lead-god-one

Agnostics often fall into two camps -
those who believe that all
religions can lead to God or those who
believe that true religion cannot
be discerned. This page examines both
positions in an attempt to
determine where the truth may lie.
Logically, there are several
possibilities. Atheists would say that no
religion leads to God, since He
doesn't exist. It is possible that one,
several or all religions lead to God.
ALL WAYS LEAD TO GOD:
There are hundreds of religions in the
world today, and many ancient
religions that are no longer practiced. It
is possible, and perhaps likely,
that all religions contain some truth and/
or good moral advice.
However, in examining religious
teaching, it is important to examine
the fundamental beliefs of each religion
and compare those to each
other. When this is done, it is apparent
that primary religious teachings
contradict each other. Judaism says that
the Messiah is coming,
Christianity says that He has come, and
Islam says that Mohammad
provided all the information necessary
for religious life. Obviously,
these truth claims cannot be
simultaneously true, since they
contradict
each other. Logically, we must reject the
idea that all religions lead to
God.
TRUE RELIGEON:IS IT POSSIBLE TO
DISCERN?
I believe that there are some things that
we can discern about God
from the nature of the universe. The
universe demonstrates some
remarkable evidence of design. What
kind of God designed all this, and how
can we know His true identity? Most
people who believe God
exists would agree with the argument
that the God who designed the
universe must be a personal God. For
God to put so much time and care
into the design of the universe and life, it
would seem logical to
conclude that God really cared about His
creation, and was personally
involved in it's creation. A God who did
not care about his creation would never
be expected to spend 14 billion years of
development
just so that humans would have a nice
place to live for a few thousand
years. Therefore, it would seem likely
that the true God must be a
personal God, and not the God of deism,
pantheism, Buddhism, etc. So,
it would seem that these religions
probably do not represent the true
nature of God.
ELIMINATE THE ILLOGICAL:
The powerful and personal Creator God
of the universe would probably
want to reveal Himself to His spiritual
creatures. So, it seems likely that
God would have revealed His true nature
to one or more of the
peoples of the earth. Are all the
revelations of the world religions a
reflection of God or just certain one(s)?
This is the difficult question that
cannot be answered in merely one short
page. However, I believe one can come
up with a best answer through much
study and through the
process of elimination. For example,
some religions make truth claims
that are obviously false. The LDS church
(Mormons) claims that gods are created
through procreation and that creatures
created by those gods can eventually
become gods themselves. However, this
religion suffers
from the problem of how the first god
came into existence. Logic
would dictate that God is eternal and
uncreated. All religions that claim
otherwise would seem to be logically
flawed.
BASIC RELIGEON CLAIM:
Since many religious claims contradict
one another, it would seem that
not all religions could be simultaneously
true. How can we tell which
religion(s) are true? If you examine the
world religions, most describe
ethical and moral laws that are ascribed
to God. Breaking of those laws
is an offense to God. How do different
religions handle that problem?
Many religions say that if one tries to
obey God's laws most of the time, God
will accept you. However, I believe that
we can eliminate
that idea as being true of the Creator
God of the universe. God designed
physical laws of the universe. These laws
are constant and
unbreakable. God Himself, seems to
break those physical laws only
rarely. I propose that this God would not
accept the breaking of His
moral laws so easily. In fact, from the
nature of the physical laws, it would
seem that God would not accept the
breaking of His moral laws
at all. Nearly all religions claim that God
will ignore our breaking of His
moral laws as long as we try our best.
This is where Christianity differs
from all other world religions.
Christianity says that our good works
cannot erase our bad moral choices.
Think of it in terms of our legal
systems. We are convicted of crimes on
the basis of breaking the law. If we break
a law, we are found guilty under the law.
It doesn't matter
what good things we have done in our
lives, if we break the law. We
might get a lesser sentence, but we will
still be convicted of a crime.
So, God cannot simply ignore our crimes
against Him. We will be found
guilty, despite our good works.
Christianity says that our bad deeds
(sins) must be eliminated in order to be
acceptable to God. The elimination of
sins was accomplished by the sacrifice of
the Savior
(Jesus Christ). Jesus Christ is God
Himself, who came to earth, led a sinless
life, and died on the cross as a sacrifice
to take the sins of
mankind. So, God Himself provided a
means of eliminating our sins
against Him. However, the elimination of
sins is not automatic. Since
God will allow people into His presence
after death, they must agree to
His terms. This contract is executed
through faith in the sacrifice of
Jesus Christ to eliminate our sins. By
accepting God's terms, our sins are
erased and we can stand in the presence
of God without any sin. Only
our good deeds will be counted for our
judgment. Those who don't
accept God's terms will be judged on the
basis of God's laws - and will
be found guilty.
CHRISTIANITY IS DIFFERENT :
No other religion provides a provision for
God's forgiveness of
sin, which is why I believe Christianity to
be the only true way
to God. Jesus said He is the only way to
God and that all people
must follow Him to enter heaven. All
other religions are man's attempt to
become acceptable to God. Only
Christianity says
that God alone provides the only means
to be acceptable to
Him. So, either Christianity is true and all
other religions are false or
Christianity is false and God does not
hold people accountable for law
breaking. Personally, I would not want to
rely upon God ignoring His
own rules. It doesn't seem to be logical
reasoning. This is the choice you must
make.
CONCLUSION:
So, I encourage you to examine the world
religions to see if what I am
saying is true. Don't give up on the ability
to separate the truth claims
of the world's religions. If Christianity is
true, you must make a choice
or you will be judged on the basis of your
sins against God. Let me
know if you have any questions.

Christianity is true because of what? This is not a thread for baseless claims. Provide objective means through we can test your religious claims to know if they are true. This is not an indoctrination class.

dalaman:


Methodology to check what? Use it and tell us how you arrived at the true religion on an objective basis.

Dude gain inner peace and let go of this hatred or obsession you have for this 'fictitious' being

dalaman:
I've been seeing many theist here (christians and muslims, and sometimes catholics vs non catholics) arguing about how their religion is true and those that do not accepted their religion are either blind, arrogant or foolish. What I have never heard from any of the theist arguing in support of one religion or the other is providing an objective way through which we will all test and know which religion is true. [size=15pt]How do we objectively know that Islam is true and Christianity is false and vice versa? Where is the objective test to prove any of these religious claim? What methodology can be used to test and verify it?
[/size]

A scrutiny is a form of a test . And you can closely examine each religion according to the four criteria I listed

PastorAIO:


He is asking for the HOW. The nitty gritty, the criteria. Your answer is like someone asks you: How do you get to the supermarket? and you are expecting 'go straight, turn the 3rd left and then the second right and it's the 3rd block on that street'. But instead you get 'By road'.

You see that the answer 'by road' tells the enquirer nothing and is no answer at all to the question.

Everybody claiming the right religion does so by 'scrutinizing' the tenets, concept of creator etc as you have mentioned BUT they all do it in different ways.

So we need to know HOW. What is the criteria? What are the steps and the stages?



You make arguments seem like a bad thing. This is a discussion forum where people with various opinions Argue/debate/discuss their various positions to arrive at a resolution. Unless, you don't want your answer scrutinized and debated against. That's okay, but just say so.

you are bias bro, did kingebuka told him to believe in Christianity ? He only ask him to scrutinize every religions claims. He even highlights the points for him. Dalaman reply was to attack Christianity. What is wrong with you people ? Even if you guys hate Christianity, try not be bias , people will listen to you guys.

plaetton:


Yap.

By the criteria provided by kingebukasblog, my Toothfairian religion should come out as the best and truest, a subtle point that eludes both you and him.

happy Christmas to you too, how is your family ? extend the greeting to your wife, am soo happy she believe in God. God willing,you will find God in Her.

malvisguy212:
you are bias bro, did kingebuka told him to believe in Christianity ? He only ask him to scrutinize every religions claims. He even highlights the points for him. Dalaman reply was to attack Christianity. What is wrong with you people ? Even if you guys hate Christianity, try not be bias , people will listen to you guys.

What is the bias? A bias is to lean on one side of an debate more than the other. I told him that he failed to answer the question asked of him.

In fact all he did was ask the question again, but divide the topic into 4 sections.

He did NOT provide any method by which to scrutinise. All he said was 'scrutinise' bla bla bla. Meanwhile the question was, to paraphrase, 'how do we scrutinize religion in order to know the true one?'.

ps. I don't hate christianity but I hate lies, and fakeness.