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The Revelation Which Failed To Make It To The Quran by malvisguy212: 8:21am On Jan 02, 2016 |
Sahih Muslim Book 13: 4016Ibn Abbas reported: When Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) was about to leave this world, there were persons (around him) in his house, ‘Umar b. al-Kbattab being one of them. Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Come, I MAY WRITE FOR YOU A DOCUMENTS ; YOU WOULD NOT GO ASTRAY AFTER THAT. Thereupon Umar said: Verily Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) is deeply afflicted with pain. You have the Qur’an with you. The Book of Allah is sufficient for us. Those who were present in the house differed. Some of them said: Bring him (the writing material) so that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) may write a document for you and you would NEVER GO ASTRAY after him And some among them said what ‘Umar had (already) said. When they indulged in nonsense and began to dispute in the presence of Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him), he said: Get up (and go away) ‘Ubaidullah said: Ibn Abbas used to say: THERE WAS A HEAVY LOSS, INDEED A HEAVY LOSS, that, due to their dispute and noise. Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) COULD NOT WRITE (OR DICTATE) THE DOCUMENTS FOR THEM. These Hadiths state one thing clearly, which is that Mohammed died with a revelation which he wanted to speak out but could not/did not. He wanted to give the Muslims something of importance which will keep them on the right path. But he could not write it because of the commotion around him. This revelation remains unspoken and unwritten and went to the grave with Mohammed. What does this say about the Quran? |
Re: The Revelation Which Failed To Make It To The Quran by malvisguy212: 8:28am On Jan 02, 2016 |
“We used to recite a surah which resembled in length and severity to (Surah) Bara’at. I HAVE, HOWEVER, FORGOTTEN IT with the exception of this which I remember out of it: ‘If there were two valleys full of riches, for the son of Adam, he would long for a third valley and nothing would fill the stomach of the son of Adam but dust'”. Sahih Muslim, Vol. 2, p.501) Here we see the evidence for a whole chapter which is missing from the Quran. These evidences from Islamic tradition prove the fact that Quran is incomplete and imperfect. This also raises serious questions about how the rest of the Quran can be trusted to be the true and complete revelation of the true God. |
Re: The Revelation Which Failed To Make It To The Quran by basilico: 8:48am On Jan 02, 2016 |
The verse that Muslim nations use to stone women was eaten by a goat.
Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan , parts of Turkey etc stone women to death. Narrated 'Aisha] "The verse of the stoning and of suckling an adult ten times were revealed, and they were (written) on a paper and kept under my bed. When the messenger of Allah expired and we were preoccupied with his death, a goat entered and ate away the paper." Musnad Ahmad bin Hanbal. vol. 6. p. 269; Sunan Ibn Majah, p. 626; Ibn Qutbah, Tawil Mukhtalafi 'l-Hadith (Cairo: Maktaba al-Kulliyat al-Azhariyya. 1966) p. 310; As-Suyuti, ad-Durru 'l-Manthur, vol. 2. p. 13 It was narrated that 'Aishah said: “The Verse of stoning and of breastfeeding an adult ten times was revealed, and the paper was with me under my pillow. When the Messenger of Allah died, we were preoccupied with his death, and a tame sheep came in and ate it.” (Hasan) Ibn Majah 3:9:1944 1 Like |
Re: The Revelation Which Failed To Make It To The Quran by BETATRON(m): 8:59am On Jan 02, 2016 |
...op nice one..but what you fail to understand is the koran proclaims that it is complete --"And We have revealed the Book to you which has clear explanation of EVERYTHING, and a guidance, mercy and good news for those who submit." (Qur'an 16:89) ---and another thing you fail to grab is we muslims see the koran as the FURQAN-that is the EVIDENCE OR CRITERION---hence the koran is used for verifying the autenticity of other book and NOTE THE OTHER WAY ROUND.. So when a thing goes contrary to the koran that thing is wrong not the KORAN So please if you want to disprove the KORAN use the koran not another book narrated by a fellow human |
Re: The Revelation Which Failed To Make It To The Quran by malvisguy212: 9:15am On Jan 02, 2016 |
BETATRON:by the time quran 16:89 was revealed, more verses were yet to be revealed, does it mean since quran 16:89 say the book was complete, no need to revealed others passages ? This hadith was clearly understood , muhammed wanted to write a documents that will guide the muslims not to go astray, he died with this revelation. 2 Likes |
Re: The Revelation Which Failed To Make It To The Quran by BETATRON(m): 9:32am On Jan 02, 2016 |
malvisguy212:and the last Ayah of the Holy Quran was this: This day have I PERFECTED your religion for you, completed my favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion-quran5:3 The last ayah of the koran clearly shows that the religion was perfected--can a thing be PERFECT without being COMPLETE? And the koran clearly proclaims that prophet muhammad(pbuh) doesn't proclaim anything outside the tenets of the koran---so whatever document he wants to give will be within the teachings of the KORAn 2 Likes |
Re: The Revelation Which Failed To Make It To The Quran by malvisguy212: 9:38am On Jan 02, 2016 |
BETATRON:do you know the meaning of perfected ? It mean to perfect what is imperfect to clean what is unclean , if the quran which you claims is from God (came down from heaven) does it mean in heaven the quran was not perfected ? |
Re: The Revelation Which Failed To Make It To The Quran by BETATRON(m): 9:42am On Jan 02, 2016 |
malvisguy212:funny you..by perfected it means THERE IS NOTHING MISSING IN IT...perfect is not only used in that context bro..that is why the ayah further state COMPLETED my favours...meaning that there is no verse that is missing in it...cause if a verse is missing it will mean the koran is imperfect and incomplete Simply put ABSOLUTE--or not reduced or diminished |
Re: The Revelation Which Failed To Make It To The Quran by malvisguy212: 9:46am On Jan 02, 2016 |
BETATRON:trash!!! What is it that muhammed waned to write that will not lead his followers astray ? Why will he died with such an important revelation ? |
Re: The Revelation Which Failed To Make It To The Quran by BETATRON(m): 9:50am On Jan 02, 2016 |
malvisguy212:like I said earlier koran proclaims that muhammad(s) doesn't teach anything outside the tenets of the koran What he wanted to reveal is just a clarification of some things in the koran or the person must fitting to succeed him after his death-still within the tenets of the koran 1 Like |
Re: The Revelation Which Failed To Make It To The Quran by malvisguy212: 10:02am On Jan 02, 2016 |
BETATRON:you mean muhammed wanted to write down something he has already wrote ? Something that will not lead the muslims astray? You are talking trash. You are talking as if you know more than muhammed. |
Re: The Revelation Which Failed To Make It To The Quran by BETATRON(m): 10:10am On Jan 02, 2016 |
malvisguy212:yes..do you have a problem with laying emphasis on a thing? Like a teacher after delivering a lecture ask the student to pay attention on a particular topic..what's wrong with that bro? 1 Like |
Re: The Revelation Which Failed To Make It To The Quran by malvisguy212: 10:37am On Jan 02, 2016 |
BETATRON:and this..... “We used to recite a surah which resembled in length and severity to (Surah) Bara’at. I have, however, forgotten it with the exception of this which I remember out of it: ‘If there were two valleys full of riches, for the son of Adam, he would long for a third valley and nothing would fill the stomach of the son of Adam but dust'”. Sahih Muslim, Vol. 2, p.501) Here we see the evidence for a whole chapter which is missing from the Quran. These evidences from Islamic tradition prove the fact that Quran is incomplete and imperfect. |
Re: The Revelation Which Failed To Make It To The Quran by BETATRON(m): 10:43am On Jan 02, 2016 |
malvisguy212:like I said the koran is the furqan the criterion other books are not used to check the koran's authenticity but the koran to check other book's authenticity And the koran stated in the verses that I have shown you that it is PERFECT and COMPLETE So we cannot take a human narration over that of the Divine 1 Like |
Re: The Revelation Which Failed To Make It To The Quran by malvisguy212: 11:01am On Jan 02, 2016 |
BETATRON:muslims condemned the hadith when is not in their favour. |
Re: The Revelation Which Failed To Make It To The Quran by BETATRON(m): 11:09am On Jan 02, 2016 |
malvisguy212:lol..its not like that bro..the hadith is contradicting the Koaran The hadith the result of human narration the koran is DEVINE Which do we take the DEVINE statement or the human statement.? |
Re: The Revelation Which Failed To Make It To The Quran by true2god: 12:15pm On Jan 02, 2016 |
malvisguy212:Maybe allahh never knew his apostle will die so soon. |
Re: The Revelation Which Failed To Make It To The Quran by true2god: 12:19pm On Jan 02, 2016 |
BETATRON:Who else does allahh speak to aside mohammed? How can one trust a god (allahh) who will end up abrogating or changing his own word in order to favour mohammed (camel piss be upon him), depending on the situation mohammed found himself. It is either allahh is the same person with mohammed or allahh never existed at all. |
Re: The Revelation Which Failed To Make It To The Quran by true2god: 12:28pm On Jan 02, 2016 |
malvisguy212:Thats the problem with muslims, any hadith that runs contrary to common sense or that reveals mohammed as fake and\or pedofile is weak or fabricated (according to muslims), yet this suppposedly fabricated hadith will remain in islamic libraries worldwide. Anytime muslims are cornered they condemn the hadith and some will automatically, though temporarily, become a 'quran-only' muslims. Lying is normative islam as long as it promotes allahh\mohammed\islam\quran. 1 Like |
Re: The Revelation Which Failed To Make It To The Quran by analice107: 12:52pm On Jan 02, 2016 |
true2god:I was going to ask this same question. Who else did Allah talked to except Muhammed? @BETATRON. I need to understand something clearly pls. When Muslims or the Koran says, The Koran is perfect and complete without contradictions, are to take it that, 1. Because Jibril spoke to Muhammed only, and not to anyone else? So the room for contradictions were eliminated? 2. Why did the Koran or Muhammed say the Koran came directly from the mouth of Allah, when the same Koran says Jibril dictated the Koran to Muhammed and he intern dictated it to his companion? 3. Should we take it that since it was Jibril who dictated the Koran, Jibril is the same as Allah? 4. When the Koran or Muslims say the Bible is corrupt, are they saying because Yahweh spoke to so many people at different times, that corrupted the Bible? Whose story will you rather believe? Is it the story of a man who had eye witnesses/other people confirming what he said. Or a man without a witness to corroborate his claims? For example. The Biblical prophets, talked about the coming of Christ. Reading the old testament, we don't need to crack codes to decipher who they were talking about. When Christ came, He said, those Prophets were talking about Him. But why do we need to crack codes to find Muhammed in the scriptures? And why are muslims seriously against the same scriptures they claim Allah gave to his Prophets? Why did the Koran call Muhammed the first Muslim, yet referred to all the Biblical Prophets as muslims? |
Re: The Revelation Which Failed To Make It To The Quran by BETATRON(m): 12:53pm On Jan 02, 2016 |
true2god:when your ready to have a healthy conversation you can mention me I cannot join you in braying like an ass..please learn courtesy from your pastor(that is if the the church still teach courtesy) or maybe go back to your bible and learn how those who are christ like put forward their argument |
Re: The Revelation Which Failed To Make It To The Quran by Annunaki(m): 1:04pm On Jan 02, 2016 |
basilico: You mean allaah couldn't protect his quoran from an ordinary goat? |
Re: The Revelation Which Failed To Make It To The Quran by BETATRON(m): 1:51pm On Jan 02, 2016 |
analice107:that the koran was sent to muhammad by Allah is true,jibril acting as the medium btw muhammad and Allah doesn't mean that jibril is ithe owner of the content of the koran It is the case of a post man the letter is note his(the postman's own) he is just serving as a medium between the owner of the letter and the receiver of the letter--2 and 3 the koran clearly states "do they note ponder on the koran,if it is from other than Allah they would have found there-in much contradictions--so the koran does not say the koran cannot be wrong because it was sent to one man but because it was from God--like you know every attempt to proof that the koran contains contradictions as gone futile-1 Muslim don't say the bible is wrong because YAHWEH spoke to numerous prophets but because it has been infiltrated by evil intending men--maybe you should make more findings on what transpired and the council of nacea---as you know too many hands spoils the cook--4 I believe a story which is logically and intellectually true weda this truth is followed by one man or by the entire world--truth has nothing to do with number does it? All the prophets it our churches today where were they mentioned in the bible? Like Í said in number 4 because it has been infiltrated by evil intending men both the old and the new Muhammad brought the NAMe islam(as the seal of the prophet) but the practice as been since the time of adam..as you know all the prophets in the bible including christ preached monotheism and not trinity And this is eternal life that they know You the ONE TRUE GOD and jesus whom you SENT-jesus The lORD thy GOD is ONE--moses 2 Likes |
Re: The Revelation Which Failed To Make It To The Quran by analice107: 1:54pm On Jan 02, 2016 |
BETATRON:Bros, What has he said now? He just quoted the hadith. And I asked questions. Pls don't ignore these questions nah. |
Re: The Revelation Which Failed To Make It To The Quran by BETATRON(m): 1:59pm On Jan 02, 2016 |
analice107:lol..I already answered your questions to the best of my ability |
Re: The Revelation Which Failed To Make It To The Quran by Nobody: 2:52pm On Jan 02, 2016 |
The Quran is a criteron in checking the authenticity of other books, any book that contradicts the Quran is wrong, not the Quran, so all the hadith the op brought forth cannot and will never put the authenticity of the Quran in doubt. 5 Likes |
Re: The Revelation Which Failed To Make It To The Quran by Nobody: 3:42pm On Jan 02, 2016 |
[b]For those trying hard to force contradictions into the Quran, when infact, there is none, Let me give you a little logic to ponder on, Allah(S.W.T) says "Will they not then meditate on the Qur'an? And if it were from any other than Allah, they would have found in it many a contradiction.", there are two ways to test if this statement is true, the first method is cumbersome, and that is by scrutinising the quran thouroughly, Alhamdulillah, all the alleged contradictions brought fourth by anti-islamist here on NL has been sent to the trash can by NL muslims. The second method is very simple, the word translated to "a contradiction" there is "ikhtilafan", now lets consider ikhtilafan as an entity not a word, which means we should write it as "many ikhtilifan" instead of "many a contradiction" implying we shouldn't see more than one ikhtilafan in the Quran, if we do, then that verse will be wrong, but surprisingly iktilafan appears just once, which is in that verse! ALLAHU AKBAR!!![/b] 3 Likes |
Re: The Revelation Which Failed To Make It To The Quran by malvisguy212: 4:51pm On Jan 02, 2016 |
BETATRON:many hadith give the same story, the whole hadith cannot be wrong. |
Re: The Revelation Which Failed To Make It To The Quran by BETATRON(m): 5:00pm On Jan 02, 2016 |
malvisguy212:seems you don't get the point..the koran is the criterion for other books authenticity not the other way round Only the koran can be used to disprove the koran....it like saying christ won't come back because a catholic priest says so..definitely you will say the priest is wrong because and only because His statement does not tailor with the bible Hope you get my point now.. Hope you're not a liverpool fan--smiles--- 2 Likes |
Re: The Revelation Which Failed To Make It To The Quran by malvisguy212: 5:01pm On Jan 02, 2016 |
lexiconkabir:trash!! Surah 6:115: “The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.” However, note the contradiction in Surah 2:106: “Whatever verse we shall abrogate, or cause (thee) to forget, we will bring a better one than it, or one like unto it. Dost thou not know that God is almighty?” (Sale) Why replace one verse with another if they are similar. If the Qur’an is the Word of God, should it not be perfect from the start? How can one perfect verse be better than another perfect verse? So, how can Allah claim to substitute his perfect verse(s) with something better? How can a divinely perfect revelation be improved upon? The fact that some of its verses needed to be replaced within a short period of just 23 years – the time it took to complete the Qur’an – proves that the Qur’an’s claim to be a book for all time and for all peoples is a lie. This means some of Allah’s eternal words were applicable for only a very short period and not for all eternity as it is claimed. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: The Revelation Which Failed To Make It To The Quran by malvisguy212: 5:06pm On Jan 02, 2016 |
lexiconkabir:Surah 73:1-2: “O you wrapped in garments (i.e. Prophet Muhammad)! STAND (TO PRAY ) ALL NIGHT , except a little.” (Hilali-Khan) However, the above two verses are abrogated by the last verse of the very same Surah: Surah 73:20: “Verily, your Lord knows that you do stand (to pray at night) a little less than two-thirds of the night, or half the night, or a third of the night, and so do a party of those with you, And Allah measures the night and the day. He knows that you are UNABLE TO PRAY THE WHOLE NIGHT, so He has turned to you (in mercy). So, recite you of the Qur’an as much as may be easy for you.” (Hilali-Khan) The directive to “Stand to pray all night, except a little” in Surah 73:2 is abrogated by Surah 73:20 – the last verse of the same Surah. But then it was abrogated again by the implementation of the five daily prayers. Thus, the abrogator was abrogated. 2 Likes |
Re: The Revelation Which Failed To Make It To The Quran by malvisguy212: 5:12pm On Jan 02, 2016 |
BETATRON:Sahih Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 48, Number 823: Narrated By ‘Aisha : The Prophet heard a man (reciting Qur’an) in the Mosque, and he said, “May Allah bestow His Mercy upon him. No doubt, he made me remember such- and such Verses of such-and-such Surah which I dropped (from my memory). Muhammad forgot some verses and one of his friends reminded him of them. However, when there was no one to remind him, he claimed that these verses have been abrogated by Allah. We saw this to be true previously when two of his followers told him that they had forgotten some of the verses which he had taught them. Muhammad told them that these verses “have been abrogated, thus, forget about it.” |
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