orunto27:
This story is disjointed and distorted. Please try better next time.

Death2alligbos:
What about the Ooni of ife

Cyojunior:




According to history d alafin appointed oni as the
custodian and keeper of the rituals and oratory of the gods
in Ile-Ife.

saxywale:

Some questions for the op, and some other wannabe historian.

Question 1:
Did Oranmiyan (the founder of Oyo) ever reign as an Ooni in Ife after he left a oyo ile, and other smaller settlement to contest for a far more superior throne?
when you answer that question, then I would know what response to give you.

Question 2:
Loading.....
In 1903, long before the birth of Lt.col General Adeyinka Adebayo or before the formation of Nigeria, why did the other obas reject the Alaafin as judge, but advised the Colonial Governor of a greater king resident in the Yoruba hinterland, to help settle the dispute involving Elepe of Epe and the Akarigbo of Ijebu-Remo? MYy brother oduduwa a gbe ooo, they want to confuse our generation, we say NO. odo ti o ba gbagbe orisun re yio gbe danu ni
The Alaafin was side-lined, and the Ooni was invited by the new power, the colonial Governor to the Central Native Authority in Lagos to advise on the dispute between Akarigbo of Ijebu-Remo and Elepe of Epe in Remo over Elepe’s right to wear a beaded crown.

Question 3:
If Alaafin was the youngest of the grandsons of Oduduwa, what makes him superior to the likes of his elder brothers you listed above in your write up i.e Oranmiyan, Olowu, Alaketu, Onisabe, Orangun, Olupopo, Oba Benin?

Question 4:
How can the Alaafin apoint an Ooni, when Oduduwa himself was an Ooni?

Question 5:
Why is the Alaafin bowing, and also collecting his certificate of ''occupancy'' from a lesser king in the picture below.
Note: Oba Lamidi Adeyemi became an Oba in 1970.
Oba Aderemi was governor between 1960 and 1962.


I am glad the new Ooni does not have time for any supremacy battle, and has displayed an high level of maturity.

Cyojunior:




According to history d alafin appointed oni as the
custodian and keeper of the rituals and oratory of the gods
in Ile-Ife.

saxywale:

Some questions for the op, and some other wannabe historian.

Question 1:
Did Oranmiyan (the founder of Oyo) ever reign as an Ooni in Ife after he left a oyo ile, and other smaller settlement to contest for a far more superior throne?
when you answer that question, then I would know what response to give you.

Question 2:
Loading.....
In 1903, long before the birth of Lt.col General Adeyinka Adebayo or before the formation of Nigeria, why did the other obas reject the Alaafin as judge, but advised the Colonial Governor of a greater king resident in the Yoruba hinterland, to help settle the dispute involving Elepe of Epe and the Akarigbo of Ijebu-Remo?
The Alaafin was side-lined, and the Ooni was invited by the new power, the colonial Governor to the Central Native Authority in Lagos to advise on the dispute between Akarigbo of Ijebu-Remo and Elepe of Epe in Remo over Elepe’s right to wear a beaded crown.

Question 3:
If Alaafin was the youngest of the grandsons of Oduduwa, what makes him superior to the likes of his elder brothers you listed above in your write up i.e Oranmiyan, Olowu, Alaketu, Onisabe, Orangun, Olupopo, Oba Benin?

Question 4:
How can the Alaafin apoint an Ooni, when Oduduwa himself was an Ooni?

Question 5:
Why is the Alaafin bowing, and also collecting his certificate of ''occupancy'' from a lesser king in the picture below.
Note: Oba Lamidi Adeyemi became an Oba in 1970.
Oba Aderemi was governor between 1960 and 1962.


I am glad the new Ooni does not have time for any supremacy battle, and has displayed an high level of maturity.

[size=14pt]Origin of Ooni Title[/size]



We have read and heard stories that in one of the ritual ceremonies where nobody was allowed to be outside, an unidentified foreign woman of no means of tracing her background was captured and was to be used as sacrifice for the gods. She was later spared because she was found to be pregnant beside; it was against custom at that time to use a pregnant woman for sacrifice. The child from the woman was dedicated to the gods and acted in an assistant capacity to the aging Oduduwa in his day-to-day ritual and voodoo job. The child was named Ooni: meaning, “This is Spared One”. This cannot be totally disputed because the Yoruba’s often named children after events surrounding their births. Nobody apart from this simple understanding of Ooni has given any other meaning interpretation of the title. This writer did not create this meaning every Yoruba man or woman grew up with this assumption. It may not necessary be the reason.



After the death of Oduduwa his son, Oranmiyan was invited to take over the job of his father, which was primarily ritual and voodoo, as well as traditional ruler of Ile Ife. Oranmiyan refused because he had succeeded in building an economically viable place at Oyo Ile with administratively sound method of government around the Oyomesi council in chief and it would be very degrading to leave and move to Ile Ife to be involved in ritual daily sacrifices exercises. In the light of that assumptions Oranmiyan gave conditions that he must be buried at Ife to symbolize his right to Ife thrown. Ooni the Assistant to Oduduwa in the day-to-day ritual sacrifice exercise continued with Odua’s job while he continued with supervision from Oyo Ile. It was that condition Ooni the son of the slave woman that was captured and dedicated to the gods who was assisting Oduduwa continued the work of Oduduwa at Ife. This is the reason why ALafin of Oyo will never accept Ooni of Ife as a king or a superior in any Yoruba gathering of Obas. The creation of Oshun State out of Oyo State was the major events that separated the two kings in one of the sittings of Obas in the old Oyo State the Chairmanship issue was almost a national problem that which was exploited by the political leaders of both the Unity Party of Nigeria (UPN) and national Party of Nigeria (NPN) at that time.



[b]Ooni assumed superiority was a British creation because the King of England assumed a king at Ife the assumed cradle of Yoruba must be superior to all Obas just like the British did in Abeokuta by imposing Alake superiority over other Obas at Abeokuta. In case of Egbas Sorunke who led the Egbas from Ibadan to the present Abeokuta was from Oke Ona, which Oba Tejuoso is the King today. This is the reason why there was conflict between late Alake of Abeokuta and Osile of Oke Ona. In fact both the Akes and Oke Onas met Owu’s in the southwest area of the city. Power and control in Abeokuta was not evenly distributed among the five kings. The British creation has led to communal disagreement among the city’s five kings. Including the Ibaras and Gbaguras the side of late Moshood Abiola. Although the late Alake of Egbaland was very technical and tactical in the way he cautiously curtailed other Egba Obas to accepting his leadership that can not be said of Ooni who does one thing better by allying himself with the government at the center in and out of the state all time a strategy Alaafin must have to adopt.[/b]

Rad1cal:


Your answers can be gotten here.



http://www.gamji.com/article4000/news4738.htm

waleola09:


Sir, even though you struggled a lot to answer these simple questions, you still haven't answer them. And by the way, the superiority of Ooni over Alaafin predates the colonial masters era. And again why would a superior king bow down while receiving his certificate of occupancy (Letter of right to the throne) from a supposedly lesser king in that picture.

rad1cal2:


Do you even know the meaning of the word "struggle". That article provided succinct historical account of the designation of that Ooni title since Oduduwa himself didn't create that title.

Ife as the craddle of the Yoruba race is not disputed but the Ooni title can be said to be greater than that of the Alaafin. Use historical facts to debate and not emotional sentiments . . . .

rad1cal2:


Do you even know the meaning of the word "struggle". That article provided succinct historical account of the designation of that Ooni title since Oduduwa himself didn't create that title.

Ife as the craddle of the Yoruba race is not disputed but the Ooni title can be said to be greater than that of the Alaafin. Use historical facts to debate and not emotional sentiments . . . .

9jacrip:
Saxywale

Egbon mo ki yin.

These revisionists no go let this topic rest.

Mo ri post yin ti e bi man yen ni very solid questions, wan bi da ko ni idahun fun awon ibeere yen.

saxywale:



Na oga Kats and dudu_negr dey get time before, but e be like say dem don retire from Nairaland. So i dey do my best small small.

lawani:
There is an Ijesa account that puts this to rest. Though others may not accept but it is as valid as any other oral account.

Owa Obokun Adimula was the one who went to procure brine to cure Oduduwa's old age blindness, he was given up on as dead and the inheritance was shared amongst his elder brothers. I will infer that Oranmiyan settled up North by the River Niger, Olupopo who was older than Oranmiyan probably took the control of the road to the sea or Popo, there might have been trade on the coast in those days, a daugghter was married off to the Awujale, Oranmiyan's toddler son was crowned King in Benin and etc etc. Owa Obokun Adimula was forgotten off altogether, listed as dead. He however arrived back in Ife with the brine which was used to cure Oduduwa's blindness, after which he demanded for his inheritance from Oduduwa and it became a problem. The account says he attacked his father and the are crown fell from his head landing on the floor with the beads cut, he took that are and his father also gave him the sword of victory to recover whatever he can from his brothers. Later his father died and he became Oba at Ife wearing the unbeaded crown symbolically but he was uneasy as people like Oranmiyan and Olupopo were still alive. There were challenges to his authourity, so he decided to abdicate the throne to found another state like his elder brothers. On the day he was leaving Ife after a bloody contest for the stool subsided, he pointed to a pregnant woman, an Oluwo that belonged to his father and said he would abdicate only on the condition that the baby in the Oluwo's womb would be made Oba at Ife. People at Ife agreed for peace to reign. He then left Ife to build a new capital on Ijesha land at Igbadae, the first Ijesha capital.

Why he instructed that the offspring of his father's bond woman be made Oba was because he impregnated the woman. The child was made Oba and addressed accordingly. When people from all over came and asked 'Who is this child?' The Ife elders would respond 'Omo Oluwo ni' which became Owoni. That is the origin of the Owoni or Ooni title. The other brothers didn't contest the decision because it was better to avoid further strife and blood letting.

Today, the Owa Obokun does not wear a beaded crown whenever in a meeting with other Obas to comemmorate when the are fell and the beads cut.

That is the Ijesa account of the origin of the Ooni of Ife title and it is a story passed down by Ijesa institutions funded by Ijesa taxes. I will say it is probably true.

Oyo was the most successful of the Ife successor states, hence the Alaafin was the most powerful Oba up to the late 18th century but at no time were the Ijesa under the Alaafin. Oyo stretched from Kogi to Niger to Kwara then westwards to Benin Republic, Ghana and Togo in the 18th century not to other parts of Southern Yoruba land though there were attempts and there may have been tributes paid in the past but the Ijesa were generally independent of the Oyo. It was the Oyo successor state of Ibadan that stood astride Western Nigeria in the 19th century not 0yo itself. The Alaafin title like the Ooni, Owa Obokun, Orangun and etc are new titles. The older Yoruba titles are ones like Alara, Ajero, Onire and etc, those predates the Meccan Oduduwa by thousands of years. So it is soldier go, soldier come, empire rise, empire falls. Oyo is recent and has declined, so with Benin, so with Owu but the Alaafin represents the Oyo nominally and the Oyo are the largest group nowadays. However, Ife is the origin and this gives the place and its monarch a spiritual headship. The Ooni has no real political power and Ifes are not much in population but has residual respect that surpasses that of the Alaafin. For example Owu was destroyed by an alliance of the Yoruba because they attacked Ife and Owu is no more today

9jacrip:



Firstly, I would like to ask what part of Yoruba land you're from.

Secondly, Owa after bringing the brine only cut fringes of the Ade Are and also stole his brother's crown and it is his brother (anoher monarch) who does not wear crown till today but the Ijesa brings his crown out during the festival which is carried by someone walking beside the king who wears his own crown on his head. I will get more details and post later - I just woke up.

Thirdly, there's no way a woman would be or become an Oluwo, only males are Oluwo. And there's no way Ife dialect would shorten Oluwo ni to Owoni, not possible. So discard this tale. Ooni as a word is a word that is being used in Ife as a possesive term (Ooni o ni Nairaland ni Seun). Hence, Ooni o ni ile. From us the autochthonus, it is Ooni o nile (one who doesn't have land) because each King controlled and still controls his section of land and people. While to the Royal houses it will be Ooni o ni ile (one who owns the land). So was it Ogun (Obatala's son - not th god of iron) who reigned after Oduduwa the 'Oluwo' son?

That is not Ijesa account, that is a poorly researched history circulated by the Oyo who seek to distort Ife history and throne. Thank you.

Finally, saying Ooni has no political power clearly shows the level of your knowledge of Yoruba history. Who was called to decide on a case between Elepe and whomever in Lagos? How did all Yoruba kings and Bini react to it? Who issues the sword of office to other kings; Alaafin/Oba Bini inclusive?

You must think Ifeland starts from the tollgate before OAU to Oke-Ogbo/Ifewara road. Let me tell you that there's Ile-Ife and there's Ife. Ile-Ife begins from Mayfair to Iremo, to More, to Oja Ife road, to Oke Ogbo, to Arubidi/Ondo road to Eredunmi/Iraye axis.

Ife land begins from Ikire, yes present Ikire to Ifewara/Ifetedo. Are the Ife's still much in population? Maybe not the people of Ile-Ife but people of Ife land entirely. It is similar to what Ilesa is to the entire Ijesaland.

And Owu still exists, Owu Ipole after Ikire, Apomu and Ikoyi, deep into the forest. I've been there to conduct an interview.

Good morning.

lawani:


Oluwo (re do do), the last o is like the o in odd, meaning bond woman and not Oluwo (re mi re) meaning chief priest. They are not thesame word. Omo Oluwo ni came to become Owoni or Ooni. The Yoruba do shorten words in that manner. There are many examples. Olodumare is said to mean something like Olodu ti o ni osumare and etc etc.

The Ogun who ruled after Oduduwa was an incarnate and not the Ogun Osinmole who landed on Earth at the dawn of existence. Thousands of years Before Oduduwa, Ogun incarnates had built great empires Ogun Onire, Ogun Ajero, Ogun Alara and etc. The post Oduduwa Ogun was acknowledged as an incarnate, Ewuare of Benin was also an incarnate, a King of Badagry, an Akire and etc.

Ife land is large but I was referring to the aboriginal Ifes when I said Ifes are not much in population. Those are the real Ifes, most others are Oyo but all are nominally Ife and all of us are Ife people by descent but not by sub national identity. The Ooni was not an emperor or political head of the Yoruba by any means. No one took orders from the Ooni. It may have been so in the first century AD before Ife declined and before other successor states rose though but it was not so since the exit of Oduduwa or since one or two monarchs after him. Oyo, Ijesha, Benin, Igbomina, Owo and etc are successor states to Ife like Ibadan is successor to Oyo. If the British had not arrived, the decline of Ife would have been complete and the tradition of recognizing the leading state as the present Ife may have been abandoned altogether. Any of Oyo and Benin could also have been renamed the new Ife. Benin already took the art.

The political hq of the Yoruba was at Ife in the past during the segi days but it was not effectively there when the British arrived, however it was nominally there as people still remember tradition. The Oyo would not have referred to Ife to clarify any politics but to the Alaafin, neither would the Ijesa, Igbomina and etc who all had monarchs with more clout and followers than the Ooni.

The original Owu that was a contemporary of old Oyo was destroyed and scattered. They are in 32 communities scattered all over Yoruba land. Without such interference, Owu would have a city as big as Ibadan.

AKYEMITE:



bro you are just begging the questions. some of the questions that was asked as not been answered. I don't need to repeat those question for you as you deliberately avoid them. I will take it to be your lack of deeper knowledge on the subject matter. your explanation of transition of oluwo to ooni is ridiculous, incorrect and misplaced of words. that transition as you explained was a creation of armchairs historian. ooni simply the owner of smth. eni ti o ni unkan. stop creating confusion.

lawani:


Oluwo (re do do), the last o is like the o in odd, meaning bond woman and not Oluwo (re mi re) meaning chief priest. They are not thesame word. Omo Oluwo ni came to become Owoni or Ooni. The Yoruba do shorten words in that manner. There are many examples. Olodumare is said to mean something like Olodu ti o ni osumare and etc etc.

The Ogun who ruled after Oduduwa was an incarnate and not the Ogun Osinmole who landed on Earth at the dawn of existence. Thousands of years Before Oduduwa, Ogun incarnates had built great empires Ogun Onire, Ogun Ajero, Ogun Alara and etc. The post Oduduwa Ogun was acknowledged as an incarnate, Ewuare of Benin was also an incarnate, a King of Badagry, an Akire and etc.

Ife land is large but I was referring to the aboriginal Ifes when I said Ifes are not much in population. Those are the real Ifes, most others are Oyo but all are nominally Ife and all of us are Ife people by descent but not by sub national identity. The Ooni was not an emperor or political head of the Yoruba by any means. No one took orders from the Ooni. It may have been so in the first century AD before Ife declined and before other successor states rose though but it was not so since the exit of Oduduwa or since one or two monarchs after him. Oyo, Ijesha, Benin, Igbomina, Owo and etc are successor states to Ife like Ibadan is successor to Oyo. If the British had not arrived, the decline of Ife would have been complete and the tradition of recognizing the leading state as the present Ife may have been abandoned altogether. Any of Oyo and Benin could also have been renamed the new Ife. Benin already took the art.

The political hq of the Yoruba was at Ife in the past during the segi days but it was not effectively there when the British arrived, however it was nominally there as people still remember tradition. The Oyo would not have referred to Ife to clarify any politics but to the Alaafin, neither would the Ijesa, Igbomina and etc who all had monarchs with more clout and followers than the Ooni.

The original Owu that was a contemporary of old Oyo was destroyed and scattered. They are in 32 communities scattered all over Yoruba land. Without such interference, Owu would have a city as big as Ibadan.

lawani:


No oral tradition is superior to another. All must be listened to. I am Ijesha but many non Ijesas are conversant with the Ijesa account. There are other oral history in Ijesa that relates events of over 1000 years ago and such are used as evidence in court.

The Oluwo belonged to Oduduwa and was effectively his wife according to the Ijesa account. So Omo Oluwo ni also had a hereditary right to the throne. As an example, Aare Ona Kakanfo Afonja contested for the throne of Oyo but lost despite that his mother was a bond woman as well. He later became the Aare.

The Ijesa account may well be true but whatever, it remains the Ijesa account, different from the Oyo account. The Oyo say they appointed someone, a non family member to hold fort in Ife but the Ijesa account is fuller and more believable because it says the bond woman who gave birth to the first Ooni belonged to Oduduwa but was impregnated by the Owa Obokun.

9jacrip:
Lawani

Just incase you keep thinking Ife and her throne have lost relevance. Here's a picture of Onipopo of Popo leaving Republic of Benin (Dahomey) to see his 'Father' on his knees.

If a picture worths a thousand words, this one is yelling.

saxywale:
What an exposure
Honestly and seriously, 9jacrip needs to write an history book on Ife.