promisechuks:
Please why changing the OP?

Because that is the message of the thread as alluded to in the Op:

What then is Grace? Grace transcends forgiveness to an entitlement to partake of the Divine nature (2 Peter 1:3,4)

promisechuks:


Please, I challenge you to bring up your meaning of grace, for us to know whether it is more than unmerited favour.

Now when you say unmerited favour, what does that favour entail?(Answer using Scriptural references to back your points).

promisechuks:
Leave the pharisee christian!

The guy hasn't known that the topic of this thread that he started is a kind of blasphemy and can take him in an express way to hell, because when grace is not unmerited, it is merit. Forget about the way his beating round the bush.

Perhaps you need to re-read the Op.

That's how they go around preaching contradiction but I thank for the wave of the pure gospel going round the world.

Noted.

Just see how contradicting these statements are;

1. Grace is not an unmerited favour, but it is freely given.

That's because you did not discern what the thread is trying to address.

2. No works can merit the gift of eternal life but you have to live rightly to gain eternal life and make heaven.

Quote this directly as stated by me

3. Jesus was condemned for our sins, but after accepting the lordship of christ you can be condemned of your sins; then what is the essence of christ's condemnation over sin?

Because all is appropriated by faith and we CAN fall from the faith if we do not take heed.

4. Living above the law(grace) means to live more rightly than he that is under the law; yet the pharisee-christian cannot keep the 10 commandment and 630+ laws and do extra as a person who really lives above law by right living.

Judgest thou? What then does the New Covenant promise of God writing His laws in our heart mean to you?

5. After accepting the gift of eternal life, you have to maintain it with your right living; please whose righteousness can maintain what his righteousness couldn't earn?

Kindly show me where I said that.

6. The law was not abolished but we are not under the law; please can law(moses) and grace(jesus) co-exist together?

Now answer, did Jesus fulfil the law or abolished it? Quote relevant references.

7. Jesus; "whosoever that shall believe in me shall not perish." Then they say; if you only believe without doing the right thing you cannot be saved, let alone going to heaven but eternal life is a free gift and unmerited favour that is based on faith."

And faith worketh by love meaning no love means no faith! "If any man has not the Spirit of Christ , he is none of His" etc Ever found these in Scripture?

8. jesus was punished for the sins of the whole world, but sinners can be punished for their sins in this day of salvation.

Quote where this was written so that you can get more clarifications

9. When you are saved and do something bad, you are unsaved, but all our sins have being forgiven; so now God is a joker? So God can play injustice by punishing us for the sins he punished jesus for?

He that shall endure to the end shall be saved. What does that mean? We are not of them that drawback unto perdition... What does this imply?

10: col 2"....ALL our sins where forgiven" but the all there doesn't include all the sins of our entire life, but all your sins till the day of your salvation; please, can there be all without a complete past, present and future? Is ALL = past - present - future?

Be sure to quote where I said this and I will explain.

11. By his stripes we WERE healed of our diseases(past, present and future) but by his death we are only forgiven of our past and not present and future till we ask for forgiveness.

Taking this issue, if one became sick again and does not appropriate by an active faith this Provision does he get healed

12. There is no more condemnation to them that believe in christ, but the holyspirit convicts and tells us we are going to hell because of our bad we did; so the holyspirit is responsible for the condemnation of a believer. But at the same time the devil is the accuser of the brethen; please in this statement, what is the difference between the devil and the holyspirit?

You are treading thin ice here!!! Why didnt you finish that passage that says there is no condemnation ONLY for those who walk after the Spirit and not the flesh??

I think I should stop here.

there are misrepresentations here; only God knows if they are inadvertent (needlessly) or deliberate.

Scholar8200:
Now when you say unmerited favour, what does that favour entail?(Answer using Scriptural references to back your points).

Regardless of what 'favor entail', is it MERITED in any way? Is it earned?

vooks:


Regardless of what 'favor entail', is it MERITED in any way? Is it earned?

Like I said before, it is neither merited nor earned. But then, when received, what does it entail?

Scholar8200:
Like I said before, it is neither merited nor earned. But then, when received, what does it entail?

Bro,
It is UNMERITED. You got that right. What is the difference between a NT Saint like yourself and an OT Saint like Job? Are you BETTER at obeying God than them?

what verses prove that the law has being abolished

promisechuks:

While you are freaking on the grace, the message of the cross, please note that I am not a follower of prince, I live my life by the 100% faith I have in christ alone.

Secondly, prince doesn't preach enjoyment in sin, he preaches righteous consciousness rather than the gospel of condemnation and sin-conciousness that the devil is being armed with while condemning the church right from our church pulpits.

So the church should be encouraged to continue living in sin abi? A person living in sin should be deceived that he is righteous already or wat exactly is ur point. Why did Jesus send letters through john to d seven churches in d book of revelation majorly to warn them?
Joseph prince is a false teacher and d earlier u realize it, d better it will be for you

vooks:

Bro,
It is UNMERITED. You got that right. What is the difference between a NT Saint like yourself and an OT Saint like Job? Are you BETTER at obeying God than them?

A NT saint is justified by faith in Christ and receives the Indwelling of the Spirit, quickened by the Latter, he is enabled (Grace) to please God in the deepest sense of the word.

A NT saint is born of the Spirit, is adopted as a son through Jesus Christ, Is Indwelt and empowered by the Spirit (enabling him to fulfil the righteousness of the law which law is written on the table of his heart by the same Person Who wrote it on tablets of stone-the Spirit, only that this time the Writer indwells him as a Power and Revealer of the Life of He that fulfilled the Law).

The OT saints (most of who were pleasing to God on account of their faith in Him) were rather limited as a result of the hardness of heart and that is why the high point of the NT is a transformation that begins from the heart and manifests in the life.

vooks:

Bro,
It is UNMERITED. You got that right. What is the difference between a NT Saint like yourself and an OT Saint like Job? Are you BETTER at obeying God than them?

you misunderstood the op, let me ask you. What is God’s requirement for salvation? What must a sinner do to be saved? Is faith the only requirement for salvation ? The correct view for this question is ; GRACE plus FAITH = salvation plus works. ( Not please, the work here imply the evidence of a saving faith).GOD message to the unbelievers is very clear:
"Believe on the Lord Jesus
Christ, and thou shalt be saved" (Acts 16:31). The message IS NOT surrender to His Lordship, it is believe on the Lord and be save. Because Grace is unmerited favor from God, then How can a sinner willingly believe on the Lordship of jesus ? He must do away with his favorite sin. Just as a tree cannot have apples unless it already has the nature of an apple tree, so a person cannot have a willingness and desire to believe in jesus unless he already possesses the new nature received by regeneration at salvation (2 Pet. 1:3-4). Thus, even the willingness and desire to submit to Christ’s rule are the result of, and not a requirement for, salvation.". Grace is not just unmerited favor from God, is more than that.

Scholar8200:


A NT saint is justified by faith in Christ and receives the Indwelling of the Spirit, quickened by the Latter, he is enabled (Grace) to please God in the deepest sense of the word.

A NT saint is born of the Spirit, is adopted as a son through Jesus Christ, Is Indwelt and empowered by the Spirit (enabling him to fulfil the righteousness of the law which law is written on the table of his heart by the same Person Who wrote it on tablets of stone-the Spirit, only that this time the Writer indwells him as a Power and Revealer of the Life of He that fulfilled the Law).

The OT saints (most of who were pleasing to God on account of their faith in Him) were rather limited as a result of the hardness of heart and that is why the high point of the NT is a transformation that begins from the heart and manifests in the life.

In short, you are merely BETTER at keeping the Law?

malvisguy212:
you misunderstood the op,

You are wrong on one too many accounts, I'm not even sure where to start

let me ask you. What is God’s requirement for salvation? What must a sinner do to be saved? Is faith the only requirement for salvation ? The correct view for this question is ; GRACE plus FAITH = salvation plus works. ( Not please, the work here imply the evidence of a saving faith).GOD message to the unbelievers is very clear:
"Believe on the Lord Jesus
Christ, and thou shalt be saved" (Acts 16:31).

And exactly what do you think is the meaning of 'believe'? Mental assent?

The message IS NOT surrender to His Lordship, it is believe on the Lord and be save.

What is 'believe'? And what do you believe?

Because Grace is unmerited favor from God, then How can a sinner willingly believe on the Lordship of jesus ?

By hearing the word of God. Faith comes by hearing

He must do away with his favorite sin. Just as a tree cannot have apples unless it already has the nature of an apple tree, so a person cannot have a willingness and desire to believe in jesus unless he already possesses the new nature received by regeneration at salvation (2 Pet. 1:3-4).

Nonsense. This means the 'willingness and desire to believe in Jesus' comes AFTER regeneration. But how would you be regenerated BEFORE believing?
The order of salvation is simple; God draws you you his grace. As you respond to this drawing (you may opt to ignore it), you believe in Him, and immediately your sins are forgiven, you are regenerated, given a new nature, and the Spirit of God. One does not discard sins to become a Christian, one becomes a Christian to discard sins.

Thus, even the willingness and desire to submit to Christ’s rule are the result of, and not a requirement for, salvation.". Grace is not just unmerited favor from God, is more than that.

Confusion galore. Please study the word 'believe'

Vooks, Scholar8200 you guys have settled on the fact that grace is unmerited. Now we move on to the next question as posed by Scholar8200

Scholar8200:
Like I said before, it is neither merited nor earned. But then, when received, what does it entail?

This is the source of confusion for the extremist grace peddlers out there. Forget the dictionary here and lets dissect the scripture for what grace generally and specifically entails.

I believe we can tell that by enumerating the components of the favour, the manifold (multifaceted) grace or free gifts. The first, we all agree is forgiveness. ...

Second, salvation. Of course not merited because there are indeed men called to be vessels of wrath;

Romans 9:22 |
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

We do all agree that the Spirit of God, Christ and the fruits and gifts of the Spirit of God are graces, right?

The powers of God?

These are the scriptures by which we know that all the above are gifts. Unmerited. But does that mean that everybody can have them? That is the real question.



Gifts of God.
These are without repentance(He does not take them away at any time). They are:
His Son (Jn 3:16,Jn 4:10)
His Spirit (Acts 8:20)
These three are one.

Due to the nature of God, whatever he gives is not an end to itself. So His gifts give on:

HIS SON
Gifts of Jesus
Gift of grace(Rom 5:15), given for our justification(verse 16)
Gift of righteousness(Romans 5:17)
Gift of grace
This are gifts that come through the work of the grace of God in us. They are for ministry, enumerated in (Eph 4:11); Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, teachers.
Fruits of righteousness(2 Cor 9:10, Mat 3:8, Phil 1:11)
Fruits of the Holy Spirit are also the fruits of righteousness. They are sown in peace(james 3:18)

HIS SPIRIT
Fruits of the Holy Spirit(Gal 5:22)
These are love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness,goodness, faith, meekness, temperance, against which there is no law(and therefore, no snare, which means they are the best weaponry against the works of wickedness.)
Gifts of the Spirit
These are also the gifts of grace:
Prophesy(1st Cor 14:1, 1st Cor 12:10)
Speaking in unknown tongues (1st Cor 14:2, and their interpretation(v.10)
Wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Christ(Eph 1:17, Ex 28:3)
Exellence and knowledge(1st Cor 8:12, Ex 28:3)
Faith(1 cor 8:9)
Healings(1st cor 8:9)
Working of miracles(v.10)
Discernment of spirits(10)

GIFTS OF THE SPIRIT
These gifts keep giving on. The best of which are:
Fruits of the gift of knowledge of Jesus (1 pet 1:5-
To faith, add virtue, to virtue, knowledge, to Knowledge, temperance, to temperance, patience, to patience, Godliness, to godliness, brotherly kindness, to brotherly kindness, charity.
Gifts of wisdom(Prov 4:9)wisdom has fruits(James 3:17)
These are ornaments of grace, or a crown of glory. Remember the personality of Jesus is wisdom(1 cor 1:30)Its the gifts come to full circle. Its good with an inheritance, and by it there is profit there is profit to them that see the sun.(Ecc 7:11)
The gifts/fruits of wisdom are:
Riches(prov 14:24)
Honor(prov 4:18)
Multiply your days(prov 2:11)
Rule and inheritance(prov 17:2)
Increase sorrow(Ecc 1:18, 6:4,7,7:7)(this is because of the increase in knowledge of the perversion of justice by the sons of darkness.)
Wisdom is a defence(Ecc 7:12)
Strengthens (Ecc 9:18)
Makes their face to shine, gives boldness(Ecc 8:1)
Heard more than the fool(Ecc 9:17

The list is by no means exhaustive.

vooks:

Bro,
It is UNMERITED. You got that right. What is the difference between a NT Saint like yourself and an OT Saint like Job? Are you BETTER at obeying God than them?

We need to differentiate here between works under the old testament (which were a shadow of the new testament) and works under the laws of Christ.


Hebrews 10:1 |
For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

So what purpose did the DAILY sacrifices serve? Do we need a different form of a daily sacrifice, one under the laws of Christ. Yes we do...

Luke 9:23 |
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

You should realize that all sacrifices and offerings and other Levitical laws were in actuality Prophetic, or signs of the works of righteousness. A shadow of a real thing that we now have. Now we have the Spirit of God that empowers us to live in righteousness of the spirit. Righteousness that is not hidden. It's a light that shines (light actually defined as works of righteousness);

Matthew 5:14 |
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.


Matthew 5:15 |
Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.


Matthew 5:16 |
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Muafrika2:
Vooks, Scholar8200 you guys have settled on the fact that grace is unmerited. Now we move on to the next question as posed by Scholar8200



This is the source of confusion for the extremist grace peddlers out there. Forget the dictionary here and lets dissect the scripture for what grace generally and specifically entails.

I believe we can tell that by enumerating the components of the favour, the manifold (multifaceted) grace or free gifts. The first, we all agree is forgiveness. ...

Second, salvation. Of course not merited because there are indeed men called to be vessels of wrath;

Romans 9:22 |
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

It is also a source of confusion for extremist Legalists, modern Pharisees if you wish.

The key to understanding all is is to examine the righteousness of God which is by faith in Jesus Christ.

vooks:

It is also a source of confusion for extremist Legalists, modern Pharisees if you wish.

The key to understanding all is is to examine the righteousness of God which is by faith in Jesus Christ.

Then let us. What entails righteousness? Better yet, Is a righteous man different in any way(character/works) from an unrighteous?

Muafrika2:


Then let us. What entails righteousness? Better yet, Is a righteous man different in any way(character/works) from an unrighteous?

It's a complex concept but basically it means RIGHT standing with God.....or blameless

I wish to remind us that Paul kept the Law
Philippians 3:6 (KJV)
Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

Which makes me ponder, what value did Paul's conversion confer seeing he was already blameless as far as the Law was concerned?

He answers this question in the next few verses;
Philippians 3:9 (KJV)
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

He ran to Christ, fleeing from the righteousness of the Law, which is based on omission/commission to righteousness of Christ which is by faith. Obviously the righteousness of Christ by faith is more valuable and incomparable to the righteousness of the law.

vooks:

It's a complex concept but basically it means RIGHT standing with God.....or blameless

Agreed.

I wish to remind us that Paul kept the Law
Philippians 3:6 (KJV)
Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

Which makes me ponder, what value did Paul's conversion confer seeing he was already blameless as far as the Law was concerned?

He answers this question in the next few verses;
Philippians 3:9 (KJV)
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, [b]Philippians 3:6 (KJV)
Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

He ran to Christ, fleeing from the righteousness of the Law, which is based on omission/commission to righteousness of Christ which is by faith. Obviously the righteousness of Christ by faith is more valuable and incomparable to the righteousness of the law.

And what law was Paul referring to? He was a Pharisee by proffession. A teacher and door of the law. If you would consider the religious practices of the jews at his birth, it was a continuation of the laws of Moses.

I agree with you here,

"..Obviously the righteousness of Christ by faith is more valuable and incomparable to the righteousness of the law..."

Which is why I believe you have decided to ignore any reason so long as it challenges the "you do not have to do anything notion". This is something I have agreed to, and even distinguished above :

Muafrika2:

We need to differentiate here between works under the old testament (which were a shadow of the new testament) and works under the laws of Christ.
Hebrews 10:1 |
For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
So what purpose did the DAILY sacrifices serve? Do we need a different form of a daily sacrifice, one under the laws of Christ. Yes we do...
Luke 9:23 |
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
You should realize that all sacrifices and offerings and other Levitical laws were in actuality Prophetic, or signs of the works of righteousness. A shadow of a real thing that we now have. Now we have the Spirit of God that empowers us to live in righteousness of the spirit. Righteousness that is not hidden. It's a light that shines (light actually defined as works of righteousness);
Matthew 5:14 |
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Matthew 5:15 |
Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Matthew 5:16 |
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

So we agree, Paul found a better deal in the new covenant. What am not sure we agree on is whether Paul's light shined for all people to see. And whether he thought change of character mattered to believers.

Muafrika2:

Which is why I believe you have decided to ignore any reason so long as it challenges the "you do not have to do anything notion". This is something I have agreed to, and even distinguished above :

So we agree, Paul found a better deal in the new covenant. What am not sure we agree on is whether Paul's light shined for all people to see. And whether he thought change of character mattered to believers.

Nope,
Obviously change of character matters, and nobody disputes that. My question is whether this change of character is the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRIST WHICH IS BY FAITH.

vooks:


Nope,
Obviously change of character matters, and nobody disputes that. My question is whether this change of character is the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRIST WHICH IS BY FAITH.

Righteousness is different from character. The character is a fruit of righteousness. By which we can by reverse tell between the righteous and the unrighteous...


Matthew 21:43 |
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

We should agree that God hates men who are full of unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate(strife), deceit, malignity; whisperers(backbiters),Romans 2:8, 1:29

Anyone can go ahead and do the above as a Christian. I assure that persons spirit will be affected. The presence of God/ anointing of God will seep out like from a tap. And you'll be opening a door for spiritual attacks/it creates vulnerability in Christians. It's actually one way of testing powers.

And, faith has its works... which a Christian who doesn't bother to produce, will ignore and quench the Spirit of God. It's very easy to backslide when the Spirit of God goes silent. And there are all sorts of people in churches not bringing forth any fruit. You tell them they don't have to do anything, you've sent them to their destruction.

Peter 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/2-Peter-Chapter-1/#6

The above quoted scripture explains what works a Christian should be doing. These are the works of righteousness under the covenant of Christ.

Muafrika2:


Righteousness is different from character. The character is a fruit of righteousness. By which we can by reverse tell between the righteous and the unrighteous...


Matthew 21:43 |
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

We should agree that God hates men who are full of unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate(strife), deceit, malignity; whisperers(backbiters),Romans 2:8, 1:29

Anyone can go ahead and do the above as a Christian. I assure that persons spirit will be affected. The presence of God/ anointing of God will seep out like from a tap. And you'll be opening a door for spiritual attacks/it creates vulnerability in Christians. It's actually one way of testing powers.

And, faith has its works... which a Christian who doesn't bother to produce, will ignore and quench the Spirit of God. It's very easy to backslide when the Spirit of God goes silent. And there are all sorts of people in churches not bringing forth any fruit. You tell them they don't have to do anything, you've sent them to their destruction.



The above quoted scripture explains what works a Christian should be doing. These are the works of righteousness under the covenant of Christ.

Good points, we now know character is not righteousness, but exactly what is RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRIST WHICH IS BY FAITH?
Is it doing/not doing ABCD....?

vooks:

In short, you are merely BETTER at keeping the Law?

Pls Where did you get that from the post you quoted?

Scholar8200:

Pls Where did you get that from the post you quoted?

From your post;

Scholar8200:

A NT saint is born of the Spirit, is adopted as a son through Jesus Christ, Is Indwelt and empowered by the Spirit (enabling him to fulfil the righteousness of the law which law is written on the table of his heart by the same Person Who wrote it on tablets of stone-the Spirit, only that this time the Writer indwells him as a Power and Revealer of the Life of He that fulfilled the Law).

The OT saints (most of who were pleasing to God on account of their faith in Him) were rather limited as a result of the hardness of heart and that is why the high point of the NT is a transformation that begins from the heart and manifests in the life.

Again,you are merely BETTER at keeping the Law?

vooks:

From your post;

Again,you are merely BETTER at keeping the Law?

But that is not the only sentence there? Why selecting that alone?

As Romans 8 says, we fulfil the righteous demands of the law when we walk in the Spirit, but that is not all there is to Romans 8. Kindly consider the whole post and not just that sentence (evidently edited)

Muafrika2:
Vooks, Scholar8200 you guys have settled on the fact that grace is unmerited. Now we move on to the next question as posed by Scholar8200



This is the source of confusion for the extremist grace peddlers out there. Forget the dictionary here and lets dissect the scripture for what grace generally and specifically entails.

I believe we can tell that by enumerating the components of the favour, the manifold (multifaceted) grace or free gifts. The first, we all agree is forgiveness. ...

Second, salvation. Of course not merited because there are indeed men called to be vessels of wrath;

Romans 9:22 |
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

We do all agree that the Spirit of God, Christ and the fruits and gifts of the Spirit of God are graces, right?

The powers of God?

These are the scriptures by which we know that all the above are gifts. Unmerited. But does that mean that everybody can have them? That is the real question.



Gifts of God.
These are without repentance(He does not take them away at any time). They are:
His Son (Jn 3:16,Jn 4:10)
His Spirit (Acts 8:20)
These three are one.

Due to the nature of God, whatever he gives is not an end to itself. So His gifts give on:

HIS SON
Gifts of Jesus
Gift of grace(Rom 5:15), given for our justification(verse 16)
Gift of righteousness(Romans 5:17)
Gift of grace
This are gifts that come through the work of the grace of God in us. They are for ministry, enumerated in (Eph 4:11); Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, teachers.
Fruits of righteousness(2 Cor 9:10, Mat 3:8, Phil 1:11)
Fruits of the Holy Spirit are also the fruits of righteousness. They are sown in peace(james 3:18)

HIS SPIRIT
Fruits of the Holy Spirit(Gal 5:22)
These are love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness,goodness, faith, meekness, temperance, against which there is no law(and therefore, no snare, which means they are the best weaponry against the works of wickedness.)
Gifts of the Spirit
These are also the gifts of grace:
Prophesy(1st Cor 14:1, 1st Cor 12:10)
Speaking in unknown tongues (1st Cor 14:2, and their interpretation(v.10)
Wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Christ(Eph 1:17, Ex 28:3)
Exellence and knowledge(1st Cor 8:12, Ex 28:3)
Faith(1 cor 8:9)
Healings(1st cor 8:9)
Working of miracles(v.10)
Discernment of spirits(10)

GIFTS OF THE SPIRIT
These gifts keep giving on. The best of which are:
Fruits of the gift of knowledge of Jesus (1 pet 1:5-
To faith, add virtue, to virtue, knowledge, to Knowledge, temperance, to temperance, patience, to patience, Godliness, to godliness, brotherly kindness, to brotherly kindness, charity.
Gifts of wisdom(Prov 4:9)wisdom has fruits(James 3:17)
These are ornaments of grace, or a crown of glory. Remember the personality of Jesus is wisdom(1 cor 1:30)Its the gifts come to full circle. Its good with an inheritance, and by it there is profit there is profit to them that see the sun.(Ecc 7:11)
The gifts/fruits of wisdom are:
Riches(prov 14:24)
Honor(prov 4:18)
Multiply your days(prov 2:11)
Rule and inheritance(prov 17:2)
Increase sorrow(Ecc 1:18, 6:4,7,7:7)(this is because of the increase in knowledge of the perversion of justice by the sons of darkness.)
Wisdom is a defence(Ecc 7:12)
Strengthens (Ecc 9:18)
Makes their face to shine, gives boldness(Ecc 8:1)
Heard more than the fool(Ecc 9:17

The list is by no means exhaustive.

Thanks a lot!!!

Indeed, can all these and many more be received without faith? And when received do we remain just the same way we came? Or do we change only in a positional or judicial sense? GOD FORBID!

We call ourselves Pentecostals, claim the Baptism with the Spirit, expect manifestations of the Spirit as 1 Corinth 14 shows but overlook or dispense with the manifestation of the Spirit as Romans 8 and Galatians 5:22-25 shows!

In other words the gifts must manifest(perhaps we love the show) but the fruits are a passive positional deposit (because the flesh must be mortified and self denied)?! We tell the seeker of the Spirit's baptism that there must be manifestations by the Spirit but we tell the new convert that (in spite of the Spirit that indwells him through faith) that we must remain slaves to sin!!!

It is this disparity that is being addressed.

Both should be balanced.

vooks:


Good points, we now know character is not righteousness, but exactly what is RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRIST WHICH IS BY FAITH?
Is it doing/not doing ABCD....?

Well thank you for asking me a question you just avoided;

Muafrika2:

Then let us. What entails righteousness? Better yet, Is a righteous man different in any way(character/works) from an unrighteous?

There is no righteosness without faith. It's impossible to please God without faith.

Character is testimony to the presence or absence of righteosness. Godly Character is in fact the righteousness of men. Because God is love. He Is Patient, Merciful, Good, Longsuffering, Kind, ... This is what we who believe in Him are continually being turned into. UnGodly character is wickedness. And this is my answer,(feel free to post YOU TAKE of what being in right standing with God as you said righy er oddness is means. Try and remove character out of it and see.)

So God's character is in fact what our righteosness is.

Is righteosness a noun or a verb? If a verb, it's an act. If a noun, then the definition, which cannot be complete without the action.

There is a spiritual difference between a righteous spirit and an unrighteous one. The spirits of men are not passive entities. Before GOD, A human spirit Is Either glorifying Him, thus a Living, continuous sacrifice. It takes resolve to continually crucify our flesh.

Righteosness does not exist in a vacuum. It's a work of faith. And this is how you can see righteousness; - faith, virtue, knowledge (Godly), temperence, patience, Godliness, brotherly kindness, charity; (which you have overlooked in my last post): -

Peter 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/2-Peter-Chapter-1/#6


As I also just posted, the spirit of the wicked on the other hand is continually in this state;
.. fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate(strife), deceit, malignity; whisperers(backbiters),Romans 2:8, 1:29.

Scholar8200:
Thanks a lot!!!

Indeed, can all these and many more be received without faith? And when received do we remain just the same way we came? Or do we change only in a positional or judicial sense? GOD FORBID!

Indeed, and for Christians, If you ever reach a place where you are not feeling the change, be very careful. This scripture has been a guide to me for years.

When you think you stand, watch out lest you fall (someone will have to remind me where it is)

When you don't see any need to change, you wont accept the change that is freely available.

We call ourselves Pentecostals, claim the Baptism with the Spirit, expect manifestations of the Spirit as 1 Corinth 14 shows but overlook or dispense with the manifestation of the Spirit as Romans 8 and Galatians 5:22-25 shows!

In other words the gifts must manifest(perhaps we love the show) but the fruits are a passive positional deposit (because the flesh must be mortified and self denied)?! We tell the seeker of the Spirit's baptism that there must be manifestations by the Spirit but we tell the new convert that (in spite of the Spirit that indwells him through faith) that we must remain slaves to sin!!!

It is this disparity that is being addressed.

Both should be balanced.

Agreed. And there are very vulnerable Christians who will never learn how to walk with God because of this notion that Christianity is a free ride.

And we become slaves to God. Bond servants. And a good servant will definitely seek to please his/her master.

Muafrika2:
Indeed, and for Christians, If you ever reach a place where you are not feeling the change, be very careful. This scripture has been a guide to me for years.

When you think you stand, watch out lest you fall (someone will have to remind me where it becomes is 1 Corinth 10:12)

Very correct, that is why Paul said to examine ourselves.

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
2 Corinth 13:5

Agreed. And there are very vulnerable Christians who will never learn how to walk with God because of this notion that Christianity is a free ride.

And we become slaves to God. Bond servants. And a good servant will definitely seek to please his/her master.

Indeed and that not by struggling or trying but by the Grace which He so freely gives to the willing!!!

Muafrika2:


Well thank you for asking me a question you just avoided;

I did define righteousness.

There is no righteosness without faith. It's impossible to please God without faith.

Very true, so what's the righteousness of Christ that is ONLY received by faith?

Character is testimony to the presence or absence of righteosness. Godly Character is in fact the righteousness of men.

Muafrika2:


Righteousness is different from character. The character is a fruit of righteousness. By which we can by reverse tell between the righteous and the unrighteous...

Righteousness is not character in one post and the next post it is character? You are unashamedly inconsistent poster.

Because God is love. He Is Patient, Merciful, Good, Longsuffering, Kind, ... This is what we who believe in Him are continually being turned into.

So righteousness is behavior modification?

UnGodly character is wickedness. And this is my answer,(feel free to post YOU TAKE of what being in right standing with God as you said righy er oddness is means. Try and remove character out of it and see.)

So God's character is in fact what our righteosness is.

And this is what Paul was seeking by faith, right? The Law lacked ability to give man God's character?

Is righteosness a noun or a verb? If a verb, it's an act. If a noun, then the definition, which cannot be complete without the action.

Vain semantics

There is a spiritual difference between a righteous spirit and an unrighteous one. The spirits of men are not passive entities. Before GOD, A human spirit Is Either glorifying Him, thus a Living, continuous sacrifice. It takes resolve to continually crucify our flesh.

It in other words take EFFORT to be righteous which is by faith? Do this, do that...voila! You are righteous

Righteosness does not exist in a vacuum. It's a work of faith. And this is how you can see righteousness; - faith, virtue, knowledge (Godly), temperence, patience, Godliness, brotherly kindness, charity; (which you have overlooked in my last post): -

Righteousness is effort?
What is the role of faith?

Peter 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/2-Peter-Chapter-1/#6

You think Peter is prescribing a righteousness formula?

As I also just posted, the spirit of the wicked on the other hand is continually in this state;
.. fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate(strife), deceit, malignity; whisperers(backbiters),Romans 2:8, 1:29.

Again, righteousness is behavioral modification, right?

Scholar8200:
But that is not the only sentence there? Why selecting that alone?

Because it concerns me. If you can't stand by what you post, then don't post.

As Romans 8 says, we fulfil the righteous demands of the law when we walk in the Spirit, but that is not all there is to Romans 8. Kindly consider the whole post and not just that sentence (evidently edited)

Are you better at keeping the Law?

Behaviour modification? Rather, what I see is the receiving and manifestation of a Life while we witness the mortifying of the old and the renewal of the mind, by the Spirit.

Scholar8200:
Thanks a lot!!!

Indeed, can all these and many more be received without faith? And when received do we remain just the same way we came? Or do we change only in a positional or judicial sense? GOD FORBID!

We call ourselves Pentecostals, claim the Baptism with the Spirit, expect manifestations of the Spirit as 1 Corinth 14 shows but overlook or dispense with the manifestation of the Spirit as Romans 8 and Galatians 5:22-25 shows!

In other words the gifts must manifest(perhaps we love the show) but the fruits are a passive positional deposit (because the flesh must be mortified and self denied)?! We tell the seeker of the Spirit's baptism that there must be manifestations by the Spirit but we tell the new convert that (in spite of the Spirit that indwells him through faith) that we must remain slaves to sin!!!

It is this disparity that is being addressed.

Both should be balanced.

Righteousness of Christ which is BY FAITH is a bunch of dos and don'ts?