Scholar8200:
Perhaps you need to re-read the Op.


Noted.

That's because you did not discern what the thread is trying to address.

Quote this directly as stated by me

Because all is appropriated by faith and we CAN fall from the faith if we do not take heed.


Judgest thou? What then does the New Covenant promise of God writing His laws in our heart mean to you?

Kindly show me where I said that.

Now answer, did Jesus fulfil the law or abolished it? Quote relevant references.

And faith worketh by love meaning no love means no faith! "If any man has not the Spirit of Christ , he is none of His" etc Ever found these in Scripture?

Quote where this was written so that you can get more clarifications

He that shall endure to the end shall be saved. What does that mean? We are not of them that drawback unto perdition... What does this imply?

Be sure to quote where I said this and I will explain.



Taking this issue, if one became sick again and does not appropriate by an active faith this Provision does he get healed

You are treading thin ice here!!! Why didnt you finish that passage that says there is no condemnation ONLY for those who walk after the Spirit and not the flesh??


there are misrepresentations here; only God knows if they are inadvertent (needlessly) or deliberate.

You said that one can fall from grace. YES, OF COURSE! Because many christ has fallen unknowingly through right living. Then next question is how can a believer fall from grace? Through sin? Oh, NO! Then what? Trusting on right living + faith!


I will answer this question with 101 scripture that point's to the fact that faith + right living doesn't make us righteous before God, but faith + faith + faith....only believing and not withstanding sin.


Enjoy 101 verse that proves faith ONLY and not "+ right living";

1. Eph. 2:8-9 - "For BY GRACE are ye
SAVED THROUGH FAITH; and that NOT
OF
YOURSELVES: it is the GIFT of God: NOT
OF WORKS, lest any man should boast."

2. Rom. 4:6-7 - God imputes
"Righteousness without works."

3. Rom. 10:3 - It's a grave mistake for
anyone to try to, "Establish their own
righteousness."

4. Rom. 5:17 - Heaven deserving
righteousness is a "GIFT," not something you
earn.

5. Rom. 5:18 - Justification to God is a
"FREE GIFT," not something you work
toward.

6. Phil. 3:9 - Paul, as ‘good’ as he was, still
wouldn't trust his "Own righteousness" to
save him.

7. Rom. 3:22 - God's righteousness is
credited to "ALL THEM THAT BELIEVE," not
all that work.

8. Rom. 8:3-4 - The flesh is too "Weak" to
save itself. We need a Saviour. We need
Christ.

9. Rom. 4:3 - Abraham's faith, not works,
"Was counted unto him for
righteousness."

10. Rom. 4:4-5 - Works are "Not reckoned
of grace, but of debt." Faith is counted as
righteousness.

11. Gal. 3:10 - To earn Heaven you'd have to "Continueth," perfectly, in the whole law and if you can't keep the whole of it(10 commandments and 600+laws) you are under curse. Only faith is needed.

12. Titus 3:5 - "NOT BY WORKS OF
RIGHTEOUSNESS which we have done,
but according to
his mercy he saved us, by the washing
of regeneration, and renewing of the
Holy Ghost."

13. John 5:24 - In Christ we've "PASSED
from death unto life." We don't have to
"wait" to find out.

14. Rom. 9:31-32 - Israel, "Sought it not
by faith, but as it were by the works of
the law."

15. Acts 4:12 - No other name but Christ can
save us-- not the name of works, nor our own
name.

16. John 1:12-13 - Only God's power,
through His Son, makes us a child of God.
We are not born into
God's family by "Blood" (heritage, family
‘pedigree’), "Nor will of the flesh" (good
works), "Nor will
of man." (minister, or man made religion),
"But of God."

17. Isa. 45:22 - No one else can save a soul
from Hell but God; "There is none else."

18. Acts 13:39 - "And by him [Christ] all
that believe are justified from all things,
from which ye
COULD NOT BE JUSTIFIED by the law of
Moses."

19. Rom. 8:7 - We can't follow God's law
even if we wanted to. So how can we save
ourselves?

20. Matthew 7:21-23 - Christ describes a
future scene in which some who are trusting
in their "Many
wonderful works," will, sadly, be told by
Christ: "I never knew you: depart from
me, Ye that work
iniquity." Their good works will not save
them. We all have to trust Christ, and Him
ALONE.

21. John 10:1 - We must enter through
Christ, "THE DOOR," not by "Some other
way.."

22. John 8:24 - A person can work all they
want, but it won't save them. Jesus said the
bottom line is
that, "If ye believe not that I am he [the
only way], ye shall die in your sins."

23. Rom. 4:2 - If Abraham could have saved
himself, he'd have something to brag about.

24. Acts 10:1-43 - Cornelius' good works
would put anyone today to shame, yet he still
had to get saved
by trusting solely in Christ to save him.

25. Rom. 3:27-28 - "Where is boasting
then?...Of WORKS? nay."

26. 1 John 5:13 - If your salvation depends
on a lifetime of good works, then why does
the Bible teach
that you could "KNOW" for sure, before you
die, that you are going to Heaven? The
answer is because
salvation doesn't depend on you, but on
Christ, who ALREADY paid the price for your
sins.

27. Heb. 1:3 - "He had BY HIMSELF
purged our sins." He doesn't need help
from us!

28. Heb. 2:3 - If we have to work at earning
it, why does the Bible call it "So great
salvation"?

29. Heb. 2:9-10 - Christ is "The CAPTAIN
of their salvation." He tasted "Death for
every man."

30. Heb. 2:14-15 - Christ is the one who will
"DELIVER" us from death, not ourselves!


31. Heb. 2:17 - Christ makes
"RECONCILIATION for the sins." We can't
reconcile ourselves.

32. Heb. 5:9 - Christ is "The AUTHOR of
eternal salvation," not us! It's not in our
hands.

33. Gal. 2:16 - "Knowing that a man IS
NOT JUSTIFIED BY THE WORKS of the
law, but by the
faith of Jesus Christ, ....that we might be
justified by the faith of Christ, and NOT
by the WORKS
of the law: FOR BY THE WORKS OF THE
LAW SHALL NO FLESH BE JUSTIFIED."

34. Heb. 9:28 - "Christ was once offered
to bear the sins of many." God won't
accept good works.

35. Heb. 10:10-12 - Christ's body was
offered "Once for all." So stop insulting
God with your works.

36. Heb. 10:14 - "For by one offering he
hath perfected for ever them." STOP
WORKING at it!

37. Heb. 10:17-18 - "There is no more
offering for sin." So stop offering your
good works.

38. 2 Cor. 1:9 - "We should not trust in
ourselves, but in God," who has ALREADY
paid the price.

39. 2 Cor. 1:10 - Christ "Delivered us from
so great a death." He had to; we can't
deliver ourselves.

40. Eph. 1:12-13 - You are saved by trusting
in Christ, and, "After that believed, ye
were SEALED."

41. Jer. 17:5 - "Cursed be the man that
trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his
arm."

42. Job 25:4 - "How then can man be
justified with God? or how can he be
clean that is born of a
woman?" (For God's answer, see Isaiah
1:18)

43. Isa. 12:2 - "Behold, God is my
salvation; I will trust." Don't trust good
works, trust the Saviour.

44. Luke 18:9-14 - Jesus gives a parable
teaching that self righteousness WILL NOT
save a person.

45. Ezek. 33:13 - "If he trust to his own
righteousness..." He better be perfectly
sinless or else!

46. John 14:6 - Jesus said, "I am THE
WAY...no man cometh unto the Father,
BUT BY ME."

47. 1 Tim. 2:5-6 - There's ONLY "One
mediator between God and men," Jesus
Christ, not ourselves.

48. Col. 2:14 - Christ took our sin debt,
"Nailing it to his cross." It's ALREADY paid
for!

49. John 19:30 - While on the cross, Christ
said, "It is finished." It's paid. We don't
have to work for it.

50. Matt. 11:28-30 - Christ offers "REST" to
all those working at trying to earn their way to
Heaven.

51. Isa. 53:4-6 - Christ was, "WOUNDED
FOR OUR transgressions." Why? So WE
don't have to be.

52. Heb. 4:9-10 - The person who accepts
Christ as Saviour, "Hath CEASED from his
own works."

53. Gal. 2:21 - If you could earn Heaven, why
did Christ die? "Then Christ is dead in
vain."

54. Rom. 3:20 - "Therefore by the deeds
of the law there SHALL NO FLESH BE
JUSTIFIED in his
sight: for by the law is the knowledge of
sin."

55. Gal. 5:1-4 - "Christ hath made us
free." He had to; we can't free ourselves, no
matter how "good."

56. 2 Tim. 1:10 - "Our Saviour Jesus
Christ, who hath abolished death," with
no help from us.

57. 1 John 4:14 - Christ was sent, "To be
the Saviour of the world"; we couldn't
save ourselves.

58. 1 Tim. 4:10 - "The Saviour of ALL
men." Why try to save yourself? You
already have a Saviour.

59. Acts 16:30-31 - When the Philippian
jailer asked, "What must I do to be
saved?" Paul didn't say,
keep the Ten Commandments, but rather,
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and
thou shalt be saved."

60. Luke 7:49-50 - Christ told the woman:
"Thy faith hath saved thee," not thy
works!

61. Eph. 1:7 - "Redemption through HIS
BLOOD, the forgiveness of sins," not
through our works.

62. 1 Pet. 1:3-5 - "According to his
abundant MERCY," not according to our
good deeds.

63. Rev. 1:5 - Christ, "Washed us from our
sins in his own blood"; can't wash
ourselves with works.

64. Titus 3:7 - We are "Justified by his
grace," not by our good deeds, baptism, or
church membership.

65. Titus 2:11 - "The grace of God that
BRINGETH SALVATION hath appeared to
ALL MEN."

66. Eph. 4:32 - We are forgiven, "For
Christ's sake," not because of our good
behavior.

67. Eph. 2:4-5 - "(By grace ye are
saved)," not by works. The two DON'T mix
according to Rom. 11:6.

68. Acts 26:18 - "Through this man
[Christ]...forgiveness of sins," not through
our efforts!

69. Heb. 7:25 - Only Christ is "Able to
save." Only He can "Make INTERCESSION
for them."

70. Rom. 3:10 - "There is none righteous,
no, not one." So how can anyone save
themselves?

71. Rom. 3:12 - "There is none that
doeth good, no, not one." So how can
anyone save themselves?

72. Eccl. 7:20 - "There is not a just man
upon earth, that doeth good." Can
anyone save themselves?

73. Rom. 4:25 - Christ has already died for
our sins. He, "Was delivered for our
offences and raised
again FOR OUR JUSTIFICATION." So what
role does a person play in their own salvation?

74. Rom. 5:10 - "We are reconciled to
God by the death of his Son," not by the
fruits of our works.

75. John 6:28-29 - "Then said they unto
him, WHAT SHALL WE DO, that we might
work the works
of God? Jesus answered and said unto
them, THIS IS THE WORK OF GOD, THAT
YE BELIEVE
ON HIM whom he hath sent."

76. 1 Pet. 3:18 - "Suffered for us...that
HE might bring us to God." Do we have to
help Him save us?
Didn't He suffer enough to pay the price?
Heb. 7:25 says He did. He saves to "The
uttermost."

77. Matt. 5:20 - Your self-righteousness
would have to surpass that of the Pharisees--
Impossible! But possible by faith ALONE in christ because the righteousness of Jesus is perfect and not ours.

78. 1 John 2:2 - Christ, "Is the propitiation
[payment]...for the sins of the whole
world." If He can
pay for the sins of the whole world, why would
He need our help in saving us-- mere
individuals?

79. Rom. 8:8 - "They that are in the flesh
cannot please God." So what chance does
anyone have?

80. Rom. 3:23-25 - Through Christ's death
we are "Justified freely" (made right with
God). His death
provides: "Redemption" (we are bought
back to God), "Propitiation" (a settlement of
our sin debt),
"Remission [forgiveness] of sins." It's all
by God's "Grace" not our works.

81. James 2:10-11 - "For whosoever shall
keep the whole law, and yet offend in
ONE POINT, he is
guilty of all." We can't possibly save
ourselves; God demands sinless perfection.
We need a Saviour.

82. Romans 5:8-9 - We are "Justified by
his blood," not our good works. That's why
"When we were
sinners, Christ died for us." Therefore,
"We shall be saved from wrath through
him."

83. Matt. 18:11 - Jesus came "To save that
which was lost [us]." Why? Because we
can't save ourselves.
Otherwise, why send Christ to die for our sins
if we could pay for them ourselves?

84. Acts 15:10-11 - "Through the grace
of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be
saved," not through
works. Grace is not works; works is not
grace, as explained in Rom. 11:6

85. 2 Cor. 5:21 - "Christ was made sin for
us...that we might be made the
righteousness of God in
him." Why trust our own "righteousness" if
God offers to impute us His righteousness?
(Rom. 4:22-24)

86. Matt. 19:25-26 - "When his disciples
heard it, they were exceedingly amazed,
saying, WHO THEN
CAN BE SAVED? But Jesus beheld them,
and said unto them, WITH MEN THIS IS
IMPOSSIBLE;
but with God all things are possible."

87. Rom. 5:1 - "Therefore being
JUSTIFIED BY FAITH, we have PEACE
WITH GOD through our
Lord Jesus Christ." There can be no real
peace when a person spends their life
wondering if they have done
enough good works. Peace is knowing it's
been paid for ALREADY.

88. 2 Tim. 1:9 - "Who hath saved us, and
called us with an holy calling, NOT
ACCORDING TO OUR
WORKS, but according to his own
purpose and grace, which was given us
in Christ Jesus before the
world began." God had a "payment plan"
ready before any of us were even alive to
work!

89. Rom. 10:9-13 - "That if thou shalt
confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus
[i.e. Repent], and shalt
believe in thine heart [i.e. Trust] that God
hath raised him from the dead, THOU
SHALT BE SAVED
...For whosoever shall CALL upon the
name of the Lord SHALL BE SAVED."

90. Rom. 11:6 - "And if by grace, then is
it no more of works: otherwise grace is
no more grace."

91. Gal. 1:4, 92. Rom. 1:16, 93. Gal.
3:21, 94. Heb. 9:22, 95. 1 Tim. 2:6, 96.
Acts 10:43,
97. Isa. 43:11, 98. Gal. 3:24, 99. Heb.
9:12-14, 100. 1 Tim. 1:15, 101. Heb. 6:1

Scholar8200:
Like I said before, it is neither merited nor earned. But then, when received, what does it entail?

Bro, I does NOT entail right living as a HELPING MEANS or whatever, to be near righteousness before God. if you say no, disprove it with the scripture ONLY, no answer based on imagination, thoughts or experience, so we can analyse it.


What it entails is Freedom from the penalty, condemnation, imputation and judgement of our sins.

oyeludef:

So the church should be encouraged to continue living in sin abi? A person living in sin should be deceived that he is righteous already or wat exactly is ur point. Why did Jesus send letters through john to d seven churches in d book of revelation majorly to warn them?
Joseph prince is a false teacher and d earlier u realize it, d better it will be for you

You see how you are blindly heading to hell. Am not judging you, but I am calling you to caution.

Whether you think joseph prince is a false teacher or not, it is not my business.

But, my warning to you, is that; God can NEVER judge a man because of the way people sees him or what people like you think is gonna be God's judgment on the person. But God is gonna judge him because of the way HE(God) sees him. That why, it is way more dangerous to pass judgement on people as you are doing in joseph's case.

I AM NOT ADVOCATING SIN. But it is better I advocate sin than to preach "faith+grace" that makes grace look unhelping and imperfect.

I advocate right living as one of the fruits(and not a MUST fruit) of grace, because so far we still have flesh we can still fall into sin, but preaching to believers to live rightly AS A WAY of being righteous before God even after accepting christ, is heretic and unscriptural, because it makes the free GIFT of God(eternal life) look like a reward.

promisechuks:

You see how you are blindly heading to hell. Am not judging you, but I am calling you to caution.

Whether you think joseph prince is a false teacher or not, it is not my business.

But, my warning to you, is that; God can NEVER judge a man because of the way people sees him or what people like you think is gonna be God's judgment on the person. But God is gonna judge him because of the way HE(God) sees him. That why, it is way more dangerous to pass judgement on people as you are doing in joseph's case.

I AM NOT ADVOCATING SIN. But it is better I advocate sin than to preach "faith+grace" that makes grace look unhelping and imperfect.
p

I advocate right living as one of the fruits(and not a MUST fruit) of grace, because so far we still have flesh we can still fall into sin, but preaching to believers to live rightly AS A WAY of being righteous before God even after accepting christ, is heretic and unscriptural, because it makes the free GIFT God(eternal life) look like a rew

You avoided my question. Why did Jesus send John to d angel (pastor or leader) of d seven churches to warn them if dey weren't supposed to preach against sin to d churches? Hope were dey supposed to carry out the warning of Christ?
Why don't u sit in ur house 247 and claim d riches dat r urs? Y do u av to pray for a miracle to happen? Keep deceiving ursef ok? Faith without work is dead

promisechuks:

Bro, I does NOT entail right living as a HELPING MEANS or whatever, to be near righteousness before God. if you say no, disprove it with the scripture ONLY, no answer based on imagination, thoughts or experience, so we can analyse it.


What it entails is Freedom from the penalty, condemnation, imputation and judgement of our sins.

ANd also freedom from the Power and dominion of sin. If this is not there, we make grace a permission to cruise on in the broad way with an assurance of making it through the narrow gate!

Scholar8200:


A NT saint is justified by faith in Christ and receives the Indwelling of the Spirit, quickened by the Latter, he is enabled (Grace) to please God in the deepest sense of the word.

A NT saint is born of the Spirit, is adopted as a son through Jesus Christ, Is Indwelt and empowered by the Spirit (enabling him to fulfil the righteousness of the law which law is written on the table of his heart by the same Person Who wrote it on tablets of stone-the Spirit, only that this time the Writer indwells him as a Power and Revealer of the Life of He that fulfilled the Law).

The OT saints (most of who were pleasing to God on account of their faith in Him) were rather limited as a result of the hardness of heart and that is why the high point of the NT is a transformation that begins from the heart and manifests in the life.

My friend you are preaching a good message in a heretic way.

The problem with you is that you don't even know what the law entails and you are busy preaching heresy.

The law is made up of 10 commandment and 630+laws.

You said that the spirit of God gives you the power to keep all his laws.
So heretic!
He does not do such! Please if so show us a single verse that says that the holyspirit helps us to live rightly. Jesus clearly stated the functions of the spirit of truth.

John 16:7-16 King James Version (KJV);
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient
for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the
Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart,
I will send him unto you.
And when he is come, he will reprove the world
of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Of righteousness, because I go to my Father,
and ye see me no more;
Of judgment, because the prince of this world
is judged.
I have yet many things to say unto you, but
ye cannot bear them now.
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come,
he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not
speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear,
that shall he speak: and he will shew you things
to come.
He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of
mine, and shall shew it unto you.
All things that the Father hath are mine:
therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and
shall shew it unto you.
A little while, and ye shall not see me: and
again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because
I go to the Father."


What makes us to leave rightly is the love of God shed abroad in our heart. The spirit of God only convicts us of righteousness, and not of sin because he hath convicted of sin before we start to believe in christ due to the fact we weren't believing in christ.


So now you keep the 10 and 630+ laws?
Don't tell me that you are not under the law but under grace because you don't believe that the law has been made non and void(abolished). You still believe that you have to keep the laws(that are not even meant for gentiles) after accepting christ.


My friend, you CANNOT fulfil the law of righteousness by yourself(whether you are filled with the power of the spirit or not). In your own understanding, fulfilling the law in us; means living accordingly to the laws(10 and 630+).

And that makes the death of Christ, that was meant to deliver us from the curse of the LAW, an ALL TIME WASTE.

But I thank God that it is not true.


My friend, fulfilment of the law has been done and established in the righteousness of jesus. When you believe in him, his righteousness will be imputed on you even when you are not living rightly. This happens with FAITH ONLY and not keeping of the law(right living) or worst of all, faith + right living.
Your right living is a self-established one and not of jesus' righteousness.

Rom 10:3;"For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about ESTABLISHING(as your are doing), have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God(which is of faith only, not faith+right living".


Rom 3:28;"Therefore we conclude that a man is JUSTIFIED by FAITH(not right living) WITHOUT the deed(obeying) of the law."

Muafrika2:


Then let us. What entails righteousness? Better yet, Is a righteous man different in any way(character/works) from an unrighteous?

Man stop it!

There are muslims that live more rightly than you self-righteous people, but does that means they are righteous before God?

My friend, you are too conscious of "righteousness before men" and "righteousness before God".

Your question is so irrelevant!

The Gospel is not a call to duty, call to change your bad characters or your wrongs, call to "do this,wear that, don't do this and that", but a GOOD NEWS TO BE SIMPLY AND ONLY BELIEVED THAT IT IS A FINISHED WORK.

Very simple!

Stop preaching this your "another gospel that keeps people away from God."

promisechuks:

My friend you are preaching a good message in a heretic way.

The problem with you is that you don't even know what the law entails and you are busy preaching heresy.

The law is made up of 10 commandment and 630+laws.

You said that the spirit of God gives you the power to keep all his laws.
So heretic!
He does not do such! Please if so show us a single verse that says that the holyspirit helps us to live rightly. Jesus clearly stated the functions of the spirit of truth.

Can we be fair and stop these rather deliberate mis-quotings??

that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:4 Show me what I posted that differs from this.

John 16:7-16 King James Version (KJV);
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient
for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the
Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart,
I will send him unto you.
And when he is come, he will reprove the world
of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Of righteousness, because I go to my Father,
and ye see me no more;
Of judgment, because the prince of this world
is judged.
I have yet many things to say unto you, but
ye cannot bear them now.
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come,
he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not
speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear,
that shall he speak: and he will shew you things
to come.
He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of
mine, and shall shew it unto you.
All things that the Father hath are mine:
therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and
shall shew it unto you.
A little while, and ye shall not see me: and
again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because
I go to the Father."


What makes us to leave rightly is the love of God shed abroad in our heart.

And WHo sheds that Love?

and hope maketh not ashamed; because the [size=14pt]love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost[/size] which is given unto us.

Romans 5:5

The spirit of God only convicts us of righteousness, and not of sin because he hath convicted of sin before we start to believe in christ due to the fact we weren't believing in christ.

So now you keep the 10 and 630+ laws?
Don't tell me that you are not under the law but under grace because you don't believe that the law has been made non and void(abolished). You still believe that you have to keep the laws(that are not even meant for gentiles) after accepting christ.

Is that what Paul was saying in Romans 8:4?

My friend, you CANNOT fulfil the law of righteousness by yourself(whether you are filled with the power of the spirit or not). In your own understanding, fulfilling the law in us; means living accordingly to the laws(10 and 630+).

That highlighted is a bold contradiction of Romans 8:4!!!

My friend, fulfilment of the law has been done and established in the righteousness of jesus. When you believe in him, his righteousness will be imputed on you even when you are not living rightly. This happens with FAITH ONLY and not keeping of the law(right living) or worst of all, faith + right living.
Your right living is a self-established one and not of jesus' righteousness.

Oh, tell this to Peter:


Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14 as obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15 but as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
1 Peter 1:13-16

At the point of believing we are justified (the old account is settled), also when we believed, we receive the Grace of God, the Power of the Indwelling Spirit that imparts the Life of Christ while mortifying the flesh, this produces Newness of life - holiness.

Rom 10:3;"For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about ESTABLISHING(as your are doing), have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God(which is of faith only, not faith+right living".


Rom 3:28;"Therefore we conclude that a man is JUSTIFIED by FAITH(not right living) WITHOUT the deed(obeying) of the law."

And through FAITH he also has access into the Grace of God, thus, he is a New Creature and sin does not have dominion over him! Justification/Forgiveness is not all there is to Grace!

.

The chief danger that confronts the coming century will be religion without the Holy Ghost, Christianity without Christ, [size=15pt]forgiveness without repentance, salvation without regeneration,[/size] politics without God, heaven without hell.”
― William Booth

Very True!!!

promisechuks:

Man stop it!
There are muslims that live more rightly than you self-righteous people, but does that means they are righteous before God?
My friend, you are too conscious of "righteousness before men" and "righteousness before God".
Your question is so irrelevant!
The Gospel is not a call to duty, call to change your bad characters or your wrongs, call to "do this,wear that, don't do this and that", but a GOOD NEWS TO BE SIMPLY AND ONLY BELIEVED THAT IT IS A FINISHED WORK.
Very simple!
Stop preaching this your "another gospel that keeps people away from God."

I was so excited someone from the extreme grace camp finally decided to give an answer to this question. Until I read part of your rant.

Relax, and calmly answer the question. Kindly also use scripture or I'll just ignore it as unanswered. For heaven's sake, don't quote Joseph Prince in the process, unless you add scripture to back him up.

I'll quote my question it again:

Muafrika2:


Then let us. What entails righteousness? Better yet, Is a righteous man different in any way(character/works) from an unrighteous?

Muafrika2:


I was so excited someone from the extreme grace camp finally decided to give an answer to this question. Until I read part of your rant.

Relax, and calmly answer the question. Kindly also use scripture or I'll just ignore it as unanswered. For heaven's sake, don't quote Joseph Prince in the process, unless you add scripture to back him up.

I'll quote my question it again:

Man I have answered your question.
What again do you want?

What entails righteousness is to be justified before God, even when you are not justified by right living.

If not so, please explain this in a simple statement; Roman 3:28;"That a man is justified by faith, WITHOUT the DEED(obeying) the law.

I know that one of the fruit is right living. I am not advocating sin, but rather I am preaching the grace of God to be believed. People are already out of grace. Go and read about kenneth hagin near-death experience, he risked his life in believing faith+right living, but God had mercy on him, before he also joined in preaching the word of faith(grace).

I have no problem with people living rightly, but it becomes something misleading to start living rightly FOR THE SAKE of meriting the eternal life as reward where it has been offered freely, it makes one to fall from grace.

Scholar8200:
The chief danger that confronts the coming century will be religion without the Holy Ghost, Christianity without Christ, [size=15pt]forgiveness without repentance, salvation without regeneration,[/size] politics without God, heaven without hell.”
― William Booth

Very True!!!

You are funny sha!

So we are here to play religion?
No wonder how you are furiously holding fast to right living and judging people's sin which is mostly seen in religious people, go and ask the pharisees to tell you better, because it couldn't even bring them near righteousness before God.

Please there is no connection between holyspirit and religion(budha, islam, christianity and so on).
Holyspirit does not deal on religion but on the basis of "anyone who believes in christ".

My friend, when jesus christ is removed from christianity, it is no more christianity.

Many people don't even know what is forgiveness and repentance.

Forgiveness is a request for pardon while repentance is a change of mind.

Ask yourself, what are we saved from? We are not saved from the power of sin over flesh, rather we are saved from the wrath of sin. It is the gift of "no condemnation" that sheds his love in our heart and cause you to walk according to his will.

It is only confused people that say that there is no hell fire.

I don't know what I should tell you concerning politics, because it is inconsequential.


So let go of that misleading quote and start walking on faith alone with christ.

Scholar8200:
The chief danger that confronts the coming century will be religion without the Holy Ghost, Christianity without Christ, [size=15pt]forgiveness without repentance, salvation without regeneration,[/size] politics without God, heaven without hell.”
― William Booth

Very True!!!

hmmm, YES!! You are correct.

malvisguy212:
hmmm, YES!! You are correct.

You are here blindly promoting a senseless quote.

Please, what does religion has to do with holyghost? Is religion the basis for holyghost to function?

When you remove the basis(christ) of christianity from christianity, does it still remain Christianity.

Chaii!
The is the most senseless quote I have seen.

promisechuks:

You are here blindly promoting a senseless quote.

Please, what does religion has to do with holyghost? Is religion the basis for holyghost to function?

When you remove the basis(christ) of christianity from christianity, does it still remain Christianity.

Chaii!
The is the most senseless quote I have seen.

mr man, why did Jesus ask john to warn d seven churches?

oyeludef:
mr man, why did Jesus ask john to warn d seven churches?

Okay, I will answer that question to your taste, if only you answer this question below.


That adulterer that was brought to Jesus, had it been that the woman, later fell into the temptation of adultery the second time and was brought to Jesus the second time. Do you think that Jesus will ask the military men, who he convicted of their own sins, to stone the woman to death? NO!

Jesus said that the son of man has not come to condemn the world, but to reconcile the world through him.

promisechuks:

Okay, I will answer that question to your taste, if only you answer this question below.


That adulterer that was brought to Jesus, had it been that the woman, later fell into the temptation of adultery the second time and was brought to Jesus the second time. Do you think that Jesus will ask the military men, who he convicted of their own sins, to stone the woman to death? NO!

Jesus said that the son of man has not come to condemn the world, but to reconcile the world through him.

as long as d woman doesnt argue dat she did nothing wrong Jesus will still forgive her. Dat is where u so called grace preachers get it wrong. If d woman was one of u, she will claim she is already righteous and wont b sober. Wen Jesus told her to go and sin no more, he empowered her to live righteously.
Now back to my question, why did Jesus ask John to warn d church cos for d fact dat He calls dem church, dey were already saved

oyeludef:
as long as d woman doesnt argue dat she did nothing wrong Jesus will still forgive her. Dat is where u so called grace preachers get it wrong. If d woman was one of u, she will claim she is already righteous and wont b sober. Wen Jesus told her to go and sin no more, he empowered her to live righteously.
Now back to my question, why did Jesus ask John to warn d church cos for d fact dat He calls dem church, dey were already saved

Man, I asked you a simple question that needs simple answer.

Whether will Jesus allow the military to stone her?

How did Jesus empowered her? Go and sin no more?
Was it recorded that the woman lived her life without committing any sin after meeting Jesus?

Where did "argue" come in to the question?

Must she ask Jesus for forgiveness before Jesus will forgives her? If yes, show me where in the bible verse did he plead for forgiveness but Jesus saved her.

Man, even if that woman went back and was still caught in sin the second time, jesus will NEVER order her death, but MUST find a way to save her again from being killed. Because Jesus knew fully well that He will be killed for the sins of the whole world INCLUDING HER ENTIRE LIFE SIN.

It was never the "Go and sin no more" statement that empowered her, but "Neither do I condemn you". And because of the gift of "No condemnation" she was filled with love for Jesus which made her to live rightly, but the bible never recorded that she never sin in her entire life.


But, my problem with people like you pharisee christian is that you live rightly for the sake of avoiding hell or for the sake of making heaven(eternal life) and NEVER because of Jesus' love in your heart for giving you the gift of no condemnation(eternal life). Just like the then pharisee. But that still couldn't help them.

That's why you, set of pharisees-christian, are the people holding the most contradicting theology.
If I start to list them out now you can't even defend them.

Muafrika2,Scholar8200
I had promised to do justice to the righteousness of Christ.
Let me repeat that the best of man's manners and intents don't make him righteous; if it did, Jesus died in vain. This brand of faith you are peddling is Legalism, the idea that some conduct may endear you to God. I will tackle that later on.

For now, turn with me to Romans 4

Romans 4:1-8 (NKJV)
1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?
2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

Please note;
1. Abraham was never justified by ANY work he did.
2. Had Abraham been justified by his works, he'd have had a sound reason to be proud. Justification by works is a source of pride. It gives the 'justified' some sense of accomplishment.
3. Abraham believed and on the basis of his faith righteousness was credited to his account. Please look up verse 3 in as many translations as you can because this is the basis of my post. Also note that believing is not a work as it is contrasted with work. Whatever work means, it precludes faith.
4. When you work, your wages are your entitlement, they are your right. One can't call this right grace seeing they earned it....which means Grace is a gift!
5. On the contrary, without doing any work but by just believing, your account is credited with righteousness on the basis of your faith.
6. Even David in Psalms 32:1-2 capture of his righteousness which is free from ANY work. God IMPUTES this righteousness. That's a powerful word. He clothes you with it without you having done any work.

We will see Paul expounding on this righteousness that God IMPUTES on us without any work further;
In verses 9-12, Paul argues that this blessedness of God imputing righteousness without works is applicable for both Jews and Gentiles seeing Abraham received it while uncircumcised.

Romans 4:19-25 (NKJV)
19 And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body, already dead (since he was about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah's womb. 20 He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. 22 And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.


Here, Paul artfully as only one inspired can write sums up his argument. The righteousness that was imputed on Abraham by his faith is also ours, and it is IMPUTED to us. While Abraham believed that God would keep His promise including raising his dead son, we believe in Jesus who died for our sin, paying the price, and was resurrected for our justification.

I have always wondered why God IMPUTES righteousness on us. It is simply because His standards of righteous are way too lofty for any man to achieve them, because He is our standard;
Matthew 5:48 (NKJV)
48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

So what is IMPOSSIBLE for man to achieve by works, God IMPUTES on us by faith. I wish to reiterate that God does not call you righteous because you have somewhat conquered all 'major' sins and are actively striving to please Him; He IMPUTES the righteousness of Christ the moment you believe. This righteousness of Christ is not imputed by continuous acts of piety, because if that were the case, it would be of works.

During animal sacrifices, an exchange happened; the innocent spotless animal without blemish takes on the sin of the sinner while the sinner take on its purity. This is why the animal is subsequently killed while the sinner's debt is paid

At the cross, Jesus who was holy and pure was treated as a sinner so that we who are sinners and impure can be treated as righteous. This is what is meant by Jesus died for our sins, raised for our justification. Remember in Romans 4:1 Abraham was justified by faith. For us, we appropriate the merits of the cross by believing Jesus died and rose again for us.

Again, and even before we get to our subject verse,
Romans 3:21-22 (NKJV)
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe.

Please note Paul's emphasis that this righteousness is APART from the Law. It is independent of the Law although the Law witnesses it. The Law points to it but it cannot give it.

This is interesting. Think about it; ANYTHING you can possibly think or do is already mentioned in the Law yet the righteousness of God by faith is apart from the Law. When you read these commandments, they hint at how hard it is to meet God's standards.

Take the greatest commandments which Muafrika2 boldly claims to keep or bother keeping;
Matthew 22:37-40 (NKJV)
37 Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Does Muafrika2 purport to assure us that he loves EVERYONE as he loves himself at ALL times?
If God was to judge you purely on the basis of your love for your neighbor, if He was to regard your iniquity in falling short of this command, would you make it to heaven?

See it is so difficult to keep the Law that the Law is called the Law of sin and death! This righteousness can't be earned, that's why I laughed at your half-hearted claims that you are RIGHTEOUS, that looking at you one would see God...I'm certain you don't even believe it yourselves, you said it merely to save face


TO BE CONTINUED...

promisechuks:

Man, I asked you a simple question that needs simple answer.

Whether will Jesus allow the military to stone her?

How did Jesus empowered her? Go and sin no more?
Was it recorded that the woman lived her life without committing any sin after meeting Jesus?

Where did "argue" come in to the question?

Must she ask Jesus for forgiveness before Jesus will forgives her? If yes, show me where in the bible verse did he plead for forgiveness but Jesus saved her.

Man, even if that woman went back and was still caught in sin the second time, jesus will NEVER order her death, but MUST find a way to save her again from being killed. Because Jesus knew fully well that He will be killed for the sins of the whole world INCLUDING HER ENTIRE LIFE SIN.

It was never the "Go and sin no more" statement that empowered her, but "Neither do I condemn you". And because of the gift of "No condemnation" she was filled with love for Jesus which made her to live rightly, but the bible never recorded that she never sin in her entire life.


But, my problem with people like you pharisee christian is that you live rightly for the sake of avoiding hell or for the sake of making heaven(eternal life) and NEVER because of Jesus' love in your heart for giving you the gift of no condemnation(eternal life). Just like the then pharisee. But that still couldn't help them.

That's why you, set of pharisees-christian, are the people holding the most contradicting theology.
If I start to list them out now you can't even defend them.

list dem mr, u still avnt told me y Jesus sent letters to warn d seven churches and even threathen to spew out one from his mouth?
If u truely love God as u claim, y den do u still live in sin? If u know sin breaks Gods heart.
2peters2 perfectly describes false teachers like you.

Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Revelations 16:15

35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: 36 lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

Mark 13:35-37

From the Mouth of Jesus Himself! Yet some tell us we can go to sleep!!!

vooks:
Muafrika2,Scholar8200
I had promised to do justice to the righteousness of Christ.
Let me repeat that the best of man's manners and intents don't make him righteous; if it did, Jesus died in vain. This brand of faith you are peddling is Legalism, the idea that some conduct may endear you to God. I will tackle that later on.

For now, turn with me to Romans 4

Romans 4:1-8 (NKJV)
1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?
2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

Please note;
1. Abraham was never justified by ANY work he did.
2. Had Abraham been justified by his works, he'd have had a sound reason to be proud. Justification by works is a source of pride. It gives the 'justified' some sense of accomplishment.
3. Abraham believed and on the basis of his faith righteousness was credited to his account. Please look up verse 3 in as many translations as you can because this is the basis of my post. Also note that believing is not a work as it is contrasted with work. Whatever work means, it precludes faith.
4. When you work, your wages are your entitlement, they are your right. One can't call this right grace seeing they earned it....which means Grace is a gift!
5. On the contrary, without doing any work but by just believing, your account is credited with righteousness on the basis of your faith.
6. Even David in Psalms 32:1-2 capture of his righteousness which is free from ANY work. God IMPUTES this righteousness. That's a powerful word. He clothes you with it without you having done any work.

We will see Paul expounding on this righteousness that God IMPUTES on us without any work further;
In verses 9-12, Paul argues that this blessedness of God imputing righteousness without works is applicable for both Jews and Gentiles seeing Abraham received it while uncircumcised.

Romans 4:19-25 (NKJV)
19 And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body, already dead (since he was about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah's womb. 20 He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. 22 And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.


Here, Paul artfully as only one inspired can write sums up his argument. The righteousness that was imputed on Abraham by his faith is also ours, and it is IMPUTED to us. While Abraham believed that God would keep His promise including raising his dead son, we believe in Jesus who died for our sin, paying the price, and was resurrected for our justification.

I have always wondered why God IMPUTES righteousness on us. It is simply because His standards of righteous are way too lofty for any man to achieve them, because He is our standard;
Matthew 5:48 (NKJV)
48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

So what is IMPOSSIBLE for man to achieve by works, God IMPUTES on us by faith. I wish to reiterate that God does not call you righteous because you have somewhat conquered all 'major' sins and are actively striving to please Him; He IMPUTES the righteousness of Christ the moment you believe. This righteousness of Christ is not imputed by continuous acts of piety, because if that were the case, it would be of works.

During animal sacrifices, an exchange happened; the innocent spotless animal without blemish takes on the sin of the sinner while the sinner take on its purity. This is why the animal is subsequently killed while the sinner's debt is paid

At the cross, Jesus who was holy and pure was treated as a sinner so that we who are sinners and impure can be treated as righteous. This is what is meant by Jesus died for our sins, raised for our justification. Remember in Romans 4:1 Abraham was justified by faith. For us, we appropriate the merits of the cross by believing Jesus died and rose again for us.

Again, and even before we get to our subject verse,
Romans 3:21-22 (NKJV)
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe.

Please note Paul's emphasis that this righteousness is APART from the Law. It is independent of the Law although the Law witnesses it. The Law points to it but it cannot give it.

This is interesting. Think about it; ANYTHING you can possibly think or do is already mentioned in the Law yet the righteousness of God by faith is apart from the Law. When you read these commandments, they hint at how hard it is to meet God's standards.

Take the greatest commandments which Muafrika2 boldly claims to keep or bother keeping;
Matthew 22:37-40 (NKJV)
37 Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Does Muafrika2 purport to assure us that he loves EVERYONE as he loves himself at ALL times?
If God was to judge you purely on the basis of your love for your neighbor, if He was to regard your iniquity in falling short of this command, would you make it to heaven?

See it is so difficult to keep the Law that the Law is called the Law of sin and death! This righteousness can't be earned, that's why I laughed at your half-hearted claims that you are RIGHTEOUS, that looking at you one would see God...I'm certain you don't even believe it yourselves, you said it merely to save face


TO BE CONTINUED...

THE BOTTONLINE PROBLEM; they try to judge christ finished work on the basis of the account of the apostles, which is not bad, but better if they had judge what the apostles said with christ's finished work, for them to understand that the bible has NO contradiction. Without that, they will continue to contradict the bible to their own peril. The bible is a christocentric book pointing to one message "Jesus and his finished work".


That's why they don't have the full knowledge of eternal life(gift) and crown of life(reward).


The problem with these pharisee-self-righteous-people is that they have not understand the MESSAGE OF THE CROSS. They don't even understand the gospel of grace. They think that grace is the gospel that gives people licence to sin.
And I don't even blame them, because, the pastors on pulpits are not even helping, busy preaching ANOTHER GOSPEL; mosaic(right living) gospel and elijaic, (if-i-be-a-man-of-God) sermon.



Until they understand the gospel of grace(birth, death and resurrection of jesus, and the glory that follows it), they will not know the righteousness by faith alone but rather will die in their imperfect works of righteousness. But I pray for God's mercy on them.


Whereas, people who believe in right living is still sinning with a far worse licence, the LAW. According to paul, IN THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.

Imagine the holy, just and righteous law, being the power and the knowledge of sin. Why? Because the devil is using it to convict us of our paid sin.



They need to understand the basis of christ death! Without that, they will not understand the gospel of Jesus(grace) properly.

Grace(jesus) gospel is a gospel that fundamentally based on Jesus and his finished works. And this gospel is supposed to be the basics of christianity and not right living.

oyeludef:
list dem mr, u still avnt told me y Jesus sent letters to warn d seven churches and even threathen to spew out one from his mouth?
If u truely love God as u claim, y den do u still live in sin? If u know sin breaks Gods heart.
2peters2 perfectly describes false teachers like you.

Man, you are accusing me of living in habitual sin?
Continue to help the devil in achieving hie duty by condemning the children of God which are of faith(not right living). Because my bible tells me that the son of man has not come to condemn the world but that the world might be saved through him.

Anyway, that's how the pharisees-christians judge. Too fast to judge even when they themselves are not perfect. Thank God I have come out from among them!


I judged people when I was a law keeping christian, but now I thank God for his overwhelming grace over me because even when I was judging people, I was far worse than them. Though they call me pastor, but I knew I was a viper when compared to them(though they commit sin). But thanks to the grace of God(not right living) that giveth salvation to all that BELIEVES(not self-righteous). The grace of God has turned me from a porn addicted person, to a gopel addicted preacher. I will NEVER proclaim the gospel of moses neither will I proclaim that of elijah(as most of your mosiac and elijaic pastors do) because they came but couldn't save me, but jesus saved my soul from the very death I deserved and gave me eternal life FREELY.


And now I am LABOURING ABUNDANTLY, PERSUADING and STRIVING to work in the lord's vineyard by spreading this gospel of grace(jesus) around to get rewarded with a crown of life which is of works.

He has given me the gift of "NO HELL", now I live, not to avoid hell or to be righteous before him seeing that he is the only one that qualifies me at all times, but I keep on pressing forward for my glorious crown of life.


That a person sometimes fall into temptation of sin due to the weakness of the flesh doesn't mean the person is living in habitual sin. Less you tag peter and paul as people who were living in habitual sin.
Habitual sins are sins like someone being okay to work as a prostitute without having any form of repentance(change of mind; repentance is quite different from asking for forgiveness). This latter is quite different from a person who each time he falls into temptation of fornication, he feels sorry for what he did, therefore, changing his mind(repenting).

Even I myself, I have NEVER HAD SEX with anyone, still a virgin. Frankly speaking! You may not believe it, because such things are easily seen among law-keeping christians.

Because may be you think that I am now living in habitual sin because of Grace. I know where I was before, but now I know by the grace of God, I am what I am.

You are now sounding as if I promote sinful living, God forbid!. But I rather promote sin than to preach the demonic, heretic and unscriptural gospel of "faith+right living=eternal life" that confuses people and take them to hell. Making no relevance to christ's sacrificial death, God forbid!

You people have turned the gospel that was meant to be "have faith = eternal life" to a gospel of "do this+wear this+don't do that=eternal life"

GOD PUNISH THE DEVIL!!!!!

THIS GOSPEL OF GRACE MUST BE PREACHED!!!


In the case of the seven churches, I will be settling your ignorance over the verse tomorrow.

Scholar8200:
Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Revelations 16:15

35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: 36 lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

Mark 13:35-37

From the Mouth of Jesus Himself! Yet some tell us we can go to sleep!!!

I am beginning to understand that you don't even understand the bible you read. Or that you read the scriptures through the eyes of the pharisees(right living).


Does sleep imply right living?

My friend, "sleep" there is talking about people like you who are not trusting on God as their righteousness, thereby get weak(sleep) in faith, and these set of people can never be righteous before God.

promisechuks:

THE BOTTONLINE PROBLEM; they try to judge christ finished work on the basis of the account of the apostles, which is not bad, but better if they had judge what the apostles said with christ's finished work, for them to understand that the bible has NO contradiction. Without that, they will continue to contradict the bible to their own peril. The bible is a christocentric book pointing to one message "Jesus and his finished work".


That's why they don't have the full knowledge of eternal life(gift) and crown of life(reward).


The problem with these pharisee-self-righteous-people is that they have not understand the MESSAGE OF THE CROSS. They don't even understand the gospel of grace. They think that grace is the gospel that gives people licence to sin.
And I don't even blame them, because, the pastors on pulpits are not even helping, busy preaching ANOTHER GOSPEL; mosaic(right living) gospel and elijaic, (if-i-be-a-man-of-God) sermon.



Until they understand the gospel of grace(birth, death and resurrection of jesus, and the glory that follows it), they will not know the righteousness by faith alone but rather will die in their imperfect works of righteousness. But I pray for God's mercy on them.


Whereas, people who believe in right living is still sinning with a far worse licence, the LAW. According to paul, IN THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.

Imagine the holy, just and righteous law, being the power and the knowledge of sin. Why? Because the devil is using it to convict us of our paid sin.



They need to understand the basis of christ death! Without that, they will not understand the gospel of Jesus(grace) properly.

Grace(jesus) gospel is a gospel that fundamentally based on Jesus and his finished works. And this gospel is supposed to be the basics of christianity and not right living.

Very true sir,
When you find somebody who is working hard to be righteous, you know that's a Pharisee right there. One thing about Pharisees is they are hopelessly self-righteous, they are ever comparing themselves with others. Sorry to say this but Deeper Life members have this habit. Here is what Jesus said of them;

Matthew 5:20 (KJV)
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

No wonder Paul despite being blameless in the Law, he was so incomplete , he had to leave all that to reach to the righteousness of Christ which is by faith

vooks:


Very true sir,
When you find somebody who is working hard to be righteous, you know that's a Pharisee right there. One thing about Pharisees is they are hopelessly self-righteous, they are ever comparing themselves with others. Sorry to say this but Deeper Life members have this habit. Here is what Jesus said of them;

Matthew 5:20 (KJV)
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

No wonder Paul despite being blameless in the Law, he was so incomplete , he had to leave all that to reach to the righteousness of Christ which is by faith

Ahhhhh!!!! I weep for them, the self righteous christians.
You are really 100% on point.

Rom 10:3"For they being IGNORANT of GOD'S RIgHTEOUSNESS, and GOING ABOUT to ESTABLISH THEIR OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS(it's their own righteousness, because God's own CANNOT be ESTABLISH) have not SUBMITTED themselves to the righteousness of God (WHICH IS OF FAITH, ALONE).



When you study them properly, you discover that they easily convict people of their sins and mistakes as if they themselves are sinless. Just imagine, the pharisees that wanted to stone the adulterer. They are worse than vipers. See, I RATHER DEFEND A PROUD PUBLIC SINNER(criminal, prostitute or whatever) than to defend a self-righteous, holier-than-thou, pharisee christian.


Please, help me tell them, how IMPOSSIBLE it is for their righteousness to exceed that of the pharisee. IMPOSSIBLE!!!! EXPECT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF JESUS, HIMSELF, WHICH IS ONLY OF FAITH(not right living). They may think that they the pharisees were wayward and technically sinful or not keeping the law when jesus made that statement, but I tell you that then they were SERIOUSLY entangled to the law of righteousness. THAT'S WHY MOST OF THEM, TILL TODAY, ARE SEEING JESUS AS A CRIMINAL and a CURSED person, because the law says, that cursed is every man that hangeth on a tree. But, they never know that he was made the accursed(which we deserve) so that we can receive his righteousness(that we couldn't deserve).


Jesus was not saying that for them to move extra mile in their works of righteousness. NO! Because many of them are abiding, though not perfectly. But rather, jesus was using all possible means to convict these self-righteous pharisee of their imperfection over flesh, despite the fact the are keeping the law and to make them believe that he was sent to die for their sins, for them to get the righteousness that surpasses their former righteousness before God, WHICH IS OF FAITH.


That's why he abolished the law and now fulfilled the law of righteousness in him and not us still trying to keep the 10 commandments and 630+ laws. Now WHOSOEVER that shall SIMPLY BELIEVE(not living rightly) IN HIM AND HIS FINISHED WORK, the FULFILLED RIGHTEOUSNESS in christ will be IMPUTED on HIM that believes which is the gift of eternal life, WHICH IS OF FAITH and NEVER of right living.



Please, think about the most law-keeping rabbi, but still, jesus meant that your righteousness must exceed that of the most law-keeping pharisee, be it rabbis or teachers of the law. Chai! But thank God for his grace.


If not for any other thing, I MUST preach and defend this gospel of my lord Jesus christ to the core, not withstanding the cost. Because it saved me from where I was, and has given the gift of eternal life and is helping live a life free of sin before him.

promisechuks:

I am beginning to understand that you don't even understand the bible you read. Or that you read the scriptures through the eyes of the pharisees(right living).


Does sleep imply right living?

My friend, "sleep" there is talking about people like you who are not trusting on God as their righteousness, thereby get weak(sleep) in faith, and these set of people can never be righteous before God.

Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
1 Thess 5:6-8

So,as per the highlighted, how come since you kick against right living even though efforts have been made to show that that is the result of Grace working in us?

So much accusation of self-righteousness and pharisee which you have not been able to prove by highlighting a post and showing how it contradicts the Big Picture of the NT and the teachings therein!

Scholar8200:


Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
1 Thess 5:6-8

So,as per the highlighted, how come since you kick against right living even though efforts have been made to show that that is the result of Grace working in us?

So much accusation of self-righteousness and pharisee which you have not been able to prove by highlighting a post and showing how it contradicts the Big Picture of the NT and the teachings therein!

.
I understand, when you have never experienced grace, all that stands between hell and yourself is your own efforts

vooks:
Muafrika2,Scholar8200
I had promised to do justice to the righteousness of Christ.
Let me repeat that the best of man's manners and intents don't make him righteous;

Pls, where did I imply that?

if it did, Jesus died in vain. This brand of faith you are peddling is Legalism, the idea that some conduct may endear you to God. I will tackle that later on.

But the Bible clearly tells us we receive Grace by faith and faith teaches us to deny worldly lusts and ungodliness and to live righteously and godly Titus 2:11,12? So holiness of life is a Result of Grace received not a price to receive Grace!

For now, turn with me to Romans 4

Romans 4:1-8 (NKJV)
1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?
2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

Please note;
1. Abraham was never justified by ANY work he did.
2. Had Abraham been justified by his works, he'd have had a sound reason to be proud. Justification by works is a source of pride. It gives the 'justified' some sense of accomplishment.
3. Abraham believed and on the basis of his faith righteousness was credited to his account. Please look up verse 3 in as many translations as you can because this is the basis of my post. Also note that believing is not a work as it is contrasted with work. Whatever work means, it precludes faith.

Agreed.

4. When you work, your wages are your entitlement, they are your right. One can't call this right grace seeing they earned it....which means Grace is a gift!
5. On the contrary, without doing any work but by just believing, your account is credited with righteousness on the basis of your faith.

Nice teaching for a new convert, but if he continues and there is no evidence of Grace, then there is a problem. And not only is your account credited before the Judge, also there is also an impartation by the Spirit that leads to transformation of life!

6. Even David in Psalms 32:1-2 capture of his righteousness which is free from ANY work. God IMPUTES this righteousness. That's a powerful word. He clothes you with it without you having done any work.

I find that clause disagreeable with the use of righteousness imputed as a legal transaction! That of we being clothed is Righteousness Imparted. This is also Gift of Grace which we receive by faith but must watch and be renewed in:

Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Revelation 16:15

Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
Revelations 3:4

We will see Paul expounding on this righteousness that God IMPUTES on us without any work further;
In verses 9-12, Paul argues that this blessedness of God imputing righteousness without works is applicable for both Jews and Gentiles seeing Abraham received it while uncircumcised.

Romans 4:19-25 (NKJV)
19 And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body, already dead (since he was about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah's womb. 20 He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. 22 And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.


Here, Paul artfully as only one inspired can write sums up his argument. The righteousness that was imputed on Abraham by his faith is also ours, and it is IMPUTED to us. While Abraham believed that God would keep His promise including raising his dead son, we believe in Jesus who died for our sin, paying the price, and was resurrected for our justification.

Agreed 100%

I have always wondered why God IMPUTES righteousness on us. It is simply because His standards of righteous are way too lofty for any man to achieve them, because He is our standard;
Matthew 5:48 (NKJV)
48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

But was Jesus here commanding something His Grace cannot do in us? Did not the Bible say God works in us both to Will and Do His Good Pleasure? How about this :


Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21 make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Hebrews 13:20,21
Shouldnt we rather seek the fulfilment of these greater provisions of His Grace?

Remember Jesus said not all that call Him Lord will enter but they that do His will and that is what is promised here not by our trying or struggling but by His Working in us and we surrender?

So what is IMPOSSIBLE for man to achieve by works, God IMPUTES on us by faith. I wish to reiterate that God does not call you righteous because you have somewhat conquered all 'major' sins and are actively striving to please Him; He IMPUTES the righteousness of Christ the moment you believe. This righteousness of Christ is not imputed by continuous acts of piety, because if that were the case, it would be of works.

Agreed 100%

During animal sacrifices, an exchange happened; the innocent spotless animal without blemish takes on the sin of the sinner while the sinner take on its purity. This is why the animal is subsequently killed while the sinner's debt is paid

At the cross, Jesus who was holy and pure was treated as a sinner so that we who are sinners and impure can be treated as righteous. This is what is meant by Jesus died for our sins, raised for our justification. Remember in Romans 4:1 Abraham was justified by faith. For us, we appropriate the merits of the cross by believing Jesus died and rose again for us.

Again, and even before we get to our subject verse,
Romans 3:21-22 (NKJV)
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe.

Please note Paul's emphasis that this righteousness is APART from the Law. It is independent of the Law although the Law witnesses it. The Law points to it but it cannot give it.

This is interesting. Think about it; ANYTHING you can possibly think or do is already mentioned in the Law yet the righteousness of God by faith is apart from the Law. When you read these commandments, they hint at how hard it is to meet God's standards.

The Law described the righteousness but could not give it.
But if we will be true to the Big picture of Romans, the righteousness which is apart from the Law, fulfils the righteous demands of the Law and exceeds it (Jesus showed this when He gave the Sermon on the Mount)

that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:4

Take the greatest commandments which Muafrika2 boldly claims to keep or bother keeping;
Matthew 22:37-40 (NKJV)
37 Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Does Muafrika2 purport to assure us that he loves EVERYONE as he loves himself at ALL times?
If God was to judge you purely on the basis of your love for your neighbor, if He was to regard your iniquity in falling short of this command, would you make it to heaven?

As regards these questions, only God can answer this and his conscience and if neither condemns him, who are you to judge?
Besides, faith worketh by love!And we move in righteousness from faith to faith, receiving therewith grace for grace and being renewed by the Spirit from glory to glory! Where there is no growth, death is evident!

See it is so difficult to keep the Law that the Law is called the Law of sin and death! This righteousness can't be earned, that's why I laughed at your half-hearted claims that you are RIGHTEOUS, that looking at you one would see God...I'm certain you don't even believe it yourselves, you said it merely to save face


TO BE CONTINUED...

Like I said about receiving Life, see this:

Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law
Galatians 3:21
Righteousness transcends just a judicial declaration to the receiving of Life! And that Life manifests to the degree to which we walk in the Spirit and allow Him mortify the flesh and its deeds (Romans 8:13)

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Scholar8200:
Pls, where did I imply that?

But the Bible clearly tells us we receive Grace by faith and faith teaches us to deny worldly lusts and ungodliness and to live righteously and godly Titus 2:11,12? So holiness of life is a Result of Grace received not a price to receive Grace!

Agreed.


Nice teaching for a new convert, but if he continues and there is no evidence of Grace, then there is a problem. And not only is your account credited before the Judge, also there is also an impartation by the Spirit that leads to transformation of life!

I find that clause disagreeable with the use of righteousness imputed as a legal transaction! That of we being clothed is Righteousness Imparted. This is also Gift of Grace which we receive by faith but must watch and be renewed in:

Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Revelation 16:15

Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
Revelations 3:4

Agreed 100%

But was Jesus here commanding something His Grace cannot do in us? Did not the Bible say God works in us both to Will and Do His Good Pleasure? How about this :


Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21 make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Hebrews 13:20,21
Shouldnt we rather seek the fulfilment of these greater provisions of His Grace?

Remember Jesus said not all that call Him Lord will enter but they that do His will and that is what is promised here not by our trying or struggling but by His Working in us and we surrender?


Agreed 100%

The Law described the righteousness but could not give it.
But if we will be true to the Big picture of Romans, the righteousness which is apart from the Law, fulfils the righteous demands of the Law and exceeds it (Jesus showed this when He gave the Sermon on the Mount)

that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:4



As regards these questions, only God can answer this and his conscience and if neither condemns him, who are you to judge?
Besides, faith worketh by love!And we move in righteousness from faith to faith, receiving therewith grace for grace and being renewed by the Spirit from glory to glory! Where there is no growth, death is evident!





Like I said about receiving Life, see this:

Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law
Galatians 3:21
Righteousness transcends just a judicial declaration to the receiving of Life! And that Life manifests to the degree to which we walk in the Spirit and allow Him mortify the flesh and its deeds (Romans 8:13)

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Has God IMPUTED the righteousness of Christ on you, or are you still slaving attempting the impossible?

John 7:7 (KJV)
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
The Legalists thought they were better placed to stone a woman caught in adultery, until Jesus reminded them without sin to cast the first stone.

I can see Legalists stoning others here, while hallucinating that they are mirror images of God's characters

Perish modern Pharisees!