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Atheists And Morality. A Question! / Atheism And Morality; Do Atheists Have A Foundation For Morality / Dialectics Or How To Debate (very Important For Both Theists And Non-theist) (2) (3) (4)
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Dialectics Of Violence And Morality by Kay17: 8:44pm On Apr 01, 2016 |
Slavoj Zizek: One of the great platitudes which are popular today when we are confronted with acts of violence is to refer to Theodore Dostoïevsky’s famous statement from The Brothers Karamazov: if there is no God then everything is permitted. 3 Likes |
Re: Dialectics Of Violence And Morality by Kay17: 1:32pm On Apr 02, 2016 |
This also applies to non theists. Violence in itself is neither evil nor good, it can be directed towards either an evil or good purpose. In most cases for ambivalent purposes. This lends people the desire to legitimize their actions. In the case of theists, God is the authority, for some atheists and scientists it could be Truth or Reason. A purpose that makes legitimate any action. So with God all things are permitted, similarly with Truth all things are permitted! 1 Like |
Re: Dialectics Of Violence And Morality by Joshthefirst(m): 9:49am On Apr 03, 2016 |
It is precisely if there is God, that[b] everything[/b]is permitted to those who not only believe in God but who perceive themselves as instruments, direct instruments of the divine will.This is nonsense. It is only because God exists, that in the midst of everything, there is a defined good and evil, and there is hope of ultimate justice. Do you want to have this argument again? What do you think he means by 'everything'? Does 'everything' encompass good and evil? If so, what is good and evil |
Re: Dialectics Of Violence And Morality by Kay17: 10:24am On Apr 03, 2016 |
Joshthefirst: In what manner does God define good and evil, is it to his own convenience or to an objective standard independent from God? Because we will apply the definition to violence. 1 Like |
Re: Dialectics Of Violence And Morality by PastorAIO: 11:36am On Apr 03, 2016 |
Joshthefirst: Really? Please explain this to me. 2 Likes |
Re: Dialectics Of Violence And Morality by Joshthefirst(m): 1:11pm On Apr 03, 2016 |
PastorAIO:Is rape good? If I came into your home and killed your wife and children and stole your money, then escaped to someplace and eventually died. What hope would you have of justice? What basis is there for our justice systems if morality is relative to superior definition and power? |
Re: Dialectics Of Violence And Morality by Joshthefirst(m): 1:13pm On Apr 03, 2016 |
Kay17:It is to the order and convenience of the beings in creation. |
Re: Dialectics Of Violence And Morality by Kay17: 1:35pm On Apr 03, 2016 |
Joshthefirst: Are these beings capable of deciphering good and evil without God especially when they already know what's order and convenient to them? |
Re: Dialectics Of Violence And Morality by Kay17: 1:44pm On Apr 03, 2016 |
Joshthefirst: Isn't there a relatively greater good in raping the last and unwilling woman on earth so she can reproduce future generations? Similarly self defence involves murder albeit justified because of a relatively greater good. |
Re: Dialectics Of Violence And Morality by Joshthefirst(m): 2:03pm On Apr 03, 2016 |
Kay17:smh. |
Re: Dialectics Of Violence And Morality by Joshthefirst(m): 2:07pm On Apr 03, 2016 |
Kay17:The deciphering of good and evil takes us to many places, but without an objective standard, we all become hypocrite lawless animals. What us wrong in my wiping out half of earth's population for the greater good of our planet? |
Re: Dialectics Of Violence And Morality by PastorAIO: 2:17pm On Apr 03, 2016 |
Joshthefirst: Personally? I think rape is heinous. But this opinion is not universal. For example these guys and their God think it is just fine: They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho. Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. “Why have you let all the women live?” he demanded. “These are the very ones who followed Balaam’s advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD’s people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves. Numbers 31:7-18 NLT 7 Likes |
Re: Dialectics Of Violence And Morality by plaetton: 2:45pm On Apr 03, 2016 |
Joshthefirst: Laughing out loud. Ehhm, Ehhmm, But sir, God did encourage and command the invasions, lootings, killing of women, children and oxen many many times in your sacred scriptures. Did he not ? By what moral standards was God operating on and even promoting ? Oh Wait, I sense cognitive dissonance in the air, about to attack someone nearby. 2 Likes |
Re: Dialectics Of Violence And Morality by Joshthefirst(m): 2:46pm On Apr 03, 2016 |
PastorAIO:You may have a reading problem, as rape isn't even mentioned in that passage. |
Re: Dialectics Of Violence And Morality by plaetton: 2:47pm On Apr 03, 2016 |
PastorAIO: History bites. Biblical history, that is. |
Re: Dialectics Of Violence And Morality by Joshthefirst(m): 2:50pm On Apr 03, 2016 |
plaetton:It seems you are bent on derailing this thread. Here's a question: By what standards do you judge God to be wrong? |
Re: Dialectics Of Violence And Morality by plaetton: 2:51pm On Apr 03, 2016 |
Joshthefirst: Laughing out loud again. I predicted it that cognitive dissonance was in the air. It has claimed it's first victim on this thread. So rape is greater form of evil than plunder and murder of women and children? How about keeping the virgins for themselves? You don't figure that rape would be a big part of that package ? Lol. This is the problem when humans like Josh hastily design a God without forethought and due diligence. 7 Likes |
Re: Dialectics Of Violence And Morality by plaetton: 2:53pm On Apr 03, 2016 |
Joshthefirst: Here is question. Which God? 3 Likes |
Re: Dialectics Of Violence And Morality by thehomer: 3:00pm On Apr 03, 2016 |
Joshthefirst: By what standards do you judge God to be right? 2 Likes |
Re: Dialectics Of Violence And Morality by Joshthefirst(m): 3:01pm On Apr 03, 2016 |
plaetton:by what standard do you judge rape and the plunder and murder of women and children to be wrong? |
Re: Dialectics Of Violence And Morality by Joshthefirst(m): 3:02pm On Apr 03, 2016 |
thehomer:by what standard do you judge God to be wrong? |
Re: Dialectics Of Violence And Morality by thehomer: 3:03pm On Apr 03, 2016 |
Joshthefirst: I think they're right by the standards of reasonable human beings. Or do you think that rape, plunder and murder are right? By what standard do you think that is right? 1 Like |
Re: Dialectics Of Violence And Morality by thehomer: 3:04pm On Apr 03, 2016 |
Joshthefirst: By what standard do you judge God to be right? 1 Like |
Re: Dialectics Of Violence And Morality by Joshthefirst(m): 3:09pm On Apr 03, 2016 |
thehomer:What do you mean by 'the standard of reasonable human beings'? Do you mean reasonable human beings will judge rape and the murder and plunder of women and children to be wrong? If so, then by what standard do you judge people reasonable or unreasonable? 1 Like |
Re: Dialectics Of Violence And Morality by Joshthefirst(m): 3:11pm On Apr 03, 2016 |
thehomer:Answer mine adequately then I'll answer yours. |
Re: Dialectics Of Violence And Morality by thehomer: 3:14pm On Apr 03, 2016 |
Joshthefirst: I answered and you asked three more questions. Start giving your answer and I will continue. So, by what standard do you judge rape and the plunder and murder of women and children to be wrong? |
Re: Dialectics Of Violence And Morality by Joshthefirst(m): 3:15pm On Apr 03, 2016 |
@thehomer, I believe you already know where I'm headed with my questions. If morality is relative, and the one with the means is the one with the lead, then what right do you have to judge any other immoral? Or any act unreasonable? |
Re: Dialectics Of Violence And Morality by plaetton: 3:18pm On Apr 03, 2016 |
Joshthefirst: Mr Josh, you introduced rape as injustice on this thread. We just had to refresh your morally schizophrenic memory that Yahweh, your God, did indeed promote rape, murder and genocide as a religious duty. 4 Likes |
Re: Dialectics Of Violence And Morality by Joshthefirst(m): 3:20pm On Apr 03, 2016 |
thehomer:You've not answered adequately. You can't say by the standard of reasonable human beings. Don't you believe in moral relativism? What if reasonable human beings to me were rapists? |
Re: Dialectics Of Violence And Morality by thehomer: 3:20pm On Apr 03, 2016 |
Joshthefirst: No I don't know where you're headed with your questions. I'm not a mind reader. Joshthefirst: Add them to the list of questions you want me to answer. What I want is your answer to this question. by what standard do you judge rape and the plunder and murder of women and children to be wrong or right? Since your God gave the order, maybe you actually think it is right. |
Re: Dialectics Of Violence And Morality by thehomer: 3:22pm On Apr 03, 2016 |
Joshthefirst: You've not even started answering my question. Why don't you start giving your answer? We can go into what we actually consider to be reaonable human beings as the discussion continues. Are the reasonable people you know rapists? 1 Like |
Re: Dialectics Of Violence And Morality by Joshthefirst(m): 3:24pm On Apr 03, 2016 |
plaetton:Yhwh did not promote rape. Stop lying. When a judge sentences one to death, do you call it murder? |
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