OLAADEGBU:


Does that mean you refused to view the objective morality of God in that link?

OLAADEGBU:


The Scriptures reveal that God does not only have absolute morality but is also the ultimate Judge. Every human being will die because He proclaimed the death sentence on the entire human race. It is His Word that says "the soul that sins shall die." Statistics say 10 out of 10 die, and our death is proof that in His eyes the best of us are wicked criminals, justly deserving capital punishment so what's the difference in those dying young or old? All have sinned and have come short of God's Law.

But God is rich in mercy, willing to forgive, and He proved His great love for us by suffering on the cross and defeating death. If you want to live see www.needGod.com

Planned Parenthood in America committed over 63 million abortions in 40 years, where all these due to rare medical condition you gave as an excuse?

All human life is valuable and that is if you even consider the unborn babies to be human.

In cases of crisis pregnancy, the approach should be to try to save a life or two, as opposed to forcing death on one or both of them.

Your subjective moral guide has led to the death of millions of unborn and in some cases born children (partial birth abortion). You will all have to face the ultimate Judge on Judgment Day.

OLAADEGBU:


You better repent accordingly as the picture above depicts.

Muafrika2:


The US abortion thing is even stranger. The aborted babies are use for experiments/ research and even burnt for heating hospitals during cold days.

KAG:


The "objective morality" of lying for Jesus. It never gets old.

Muafrika2:


I guess you need to be informed:

Fetal tissue has been used in biomedical research since the 1930s, for the development of the first polio vaccine

Cells from fetal tissue are still in use today in vaccine manufacturing, as well as for stem cell and transplantation research

The U.S. Health and Human Services guidelines dictate how researchers can obtain and use fetal tissue

(CNN)Fetal tissue has been used since the 1930s for vaccine development, and more recently to help advance stem cell research and treatments for degenerative diseases such as Parkinson's disease. Researchers typically take tissue samples from a fetus that has been aborted ....
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/17/health/fetal-tissue-explainer/



Use of aborted babies for warming hospitals


Sarah Knapton, science correspondent
24 MARCH 2014 • 7:00AM
The bodies of thousands of aborted and miscarried babies were incinerated as clinical waste, with some even used to heat hospitals, an investigation has found.

Ten NHS trusts have admitted burning foetal remains alongside other rubbish while two others used the bodies in ‘waste-to-energy’ plants which generate power for heat.....
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2016/03/15/aborted-babies-incinerated-to-heat-uk-hospitals/

OLAADEGBU:


These are the simple reasons why absolute morality cannot comport with atheism. Why should there be objective standard of behaviour universally upheld if the universe and the people therein are simply accidents of nature? The atheistic, evolutionary universe is a place where people are just animals and murder is no different than a lion killing an antelope. And that is why you wouldn't get angry and punish the lion that killed an antelope. If people are just chemical accidents as you want us to believe why would you punish a person who murders another person?

The fact is that human beings are not animals but are valuable and have genuine freedom to make choices, they are also responsible for the choices they make and are bound by a universal objective moral code that come from the Creator God who set up the rules for our behaviours in the first place.

OLAADEGBU:


Any subjective morality we set for ourselves can only be arbitrary. Morality must be objective in the sense that the subjective morality of atheists who generally believe that it is okay to kill babies in their mothers womb or Muslims who believe that it is perfectly alright to murder non Muslims or some folks who believe it is their right to be racists. Who then is to say which moral code is to be followed. It is only God's absolute morality that is universal and is already written in our consciences. We don't hear them because of our sinful lifestyle.

Any subjective morality we set for ourselves can only be arbitrary.

Who then is to say which moral code is to be followed.

It is only God's absolute morality that is universal and is already written in our consciences.

PastorAIO:





Wrong!

PastorAIO:



Followed by who? Why should everybody follow one single moral code?

PastorAIO:


You don't really believe this, i don't think. you're just saying it because you read something like it somewhere. Think about what you're saying.

OLAADEGBU:


Why is the standard of your own creation not subjective and arbitrary?

OLAADEGBU:




Because God created us and ingrained in us the sense of right and wrong. It is only by going back to the user manual for reference that we can get back to factory setting.

OLAADEGBU:

If God says it and I believe it that settles it for me.

finofaya:


Saying that a wrong thing is wrong is not a meaningful statement. That's like saying a bright thing is bright.

Listing one thing that many people consider wrong does not help your case. It doesn't establish that there are objective rights and wrongs. I can simply list other things that people don't agree on such as pre marital sex, eating shellfish or child marriages and say that they preclude the existence of objective morality.

finofaya:


What does that have to do with anything?

OLAADEGBU:


The 10 commandments cover all rights and wrongs and it resonates within every conscience universally.

JustStardust:


Lol. And how did this entity come into being? If you say he has always been. Then i ask, why can't you just as well say the Universe has always been ,i.e infinite; Or say "all things" have always been i.e infinite and uncreated? Its cunning and deceptive to just pick an arbitrary point to stop in this game of "cause and effect". Lets be honest.

JustStardust:


Once people dont subscribe to a brand of patriarchial, overly moralistic religion, they are branded "lawless". Why cant people just allow others to be free when they hurt no one?

JustStardust:


Isnt it strange that the "moral" people despise abortions but the lawless are ok with it
isnt it strange that this same moral people believe in letting the terminally ill suffer through pain instead of assisted suicide while those who support euthanasia are branded as lawless. Lets not forget that foetuses are mostly a collection of cells with no consciousness whereas a full grown man is in a sorry state indeed when suffering pain
Isnt it strange that the so called bible thumpers love guns and dont want to see it controlled whereas the somehow lawless care more about the fellow man and want stricter gun control measures.

JustStardust:


The list gets more interesting when u get to sex, sexual orientation and the use of some substances like marijuana. Its almost as if you must control other people's lives to be seen as lawful, but anything that waves freedom to people is branded "lawless". Am a Liberal,blood and bone, O yes. Leave me lawless and free

finofaya:


Lol. I like how you execute your cop outs.

finofaya:


What objective morality of God? I did not visit the linked site, no. You still haven't told me what makes the objective morality of God objective.

KAG:


We're all going to die anyway, so the wholesale murder of children is okay - if you truly believe your god has asked for it. That's the "objective morality" to which you subscribe? I don't believe children are deserving of being murdered, nor that it can be justified by your appeal to your god. So much for "objective morality" anchored in your religious book.

KAG:


"Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius."

KAG:


I don't live in America. I don't know the reasons for the abortions. I don't know whether any babies were aborted. Address your question to Planned Parenthood of America. If you want My view, you can scroll back and see what I've written.

KAG:


You clearly don't believe all human life is valuable. They lives of children cease to be valuable once you believe their wholesale execution has been ordered by your god.

KAG:


That's my point! Forcing the mother to die is abhorent. The choice is never easy for the mother, but sometimes it's the only recourse.

KAG:


Or, most likely not. Perhaps your god commanded their deaths but just didn't inform you? Or maybe your "objective morality" is not so objective after all. In any case, my subjective moral guide hasn't led me to murder any children, nor to try to justify the killing of scores of children. I'll stick with it over your supposed "objective morality".

KAG:


Nah, I'm good.

JustStardust:


On the contrary, the plethora of moral codes in the diverse cultures of the world proves otherwise; there is no universal objective moral code. Rather, there are many subjective moral codes. For example, In some places a woman who is accused of infidelity may be divorced, in others she may be stoned and in others still, shE and some of her family members may be ostracized. This is just one example.

JustStardust:


Besides, a cursory look at human history will reveal a changing moral zeitgeist; the general moral, and cultural climate is never the same. It keeps evolving. No creator gave morals. We humans do. LET me say a bit about slavery.

JustStardust:


The bible and koran supported slavery and in numerous points seemed to celebrate slavery as totally okay. But over time, humans started to see that slavery is very offensive and wicked to fEllow humans. Not all humans shared this novel humanistic concept at the same time but slowly and surely, it continued to gain ground. Today, even though some people really still condone slavery and may want it brought back, a majority of humans would definitely condemn it. Including the bible and koran whose pages are full romanticization of slavery. Even Jesus was not moral enough to speak against slavery, neither was st Paul. These people were supposed to speak the wishes of a creator and his morals. Their silence and condoning of slavery reveals the spirit of d timEs.

JustStardust:


Now some may start to say dat xtians were a majority of those who started to speak against slavery some using d bible for support (speaking about human kindness), but many xtians also spoke otherwise and supported d bible for it. I see the later group as being more intellectually honest. This large controversy also had a lot to do with d American Civil War. In d end reason won. And let's not forget the numerous freethinkers and humanists who were on d side of abolishing slavery. Good people tend to do good stuff and bad people, bad stuff. But for good people (like d xtians who stood on d side of slavery in those confusing times) to do very wicked stuff, it takes religion and any other dogmatic code of morals

JustStardust:


Reason has also won with the world-View on warcrimes, rape, genocide, female genital mutilation, human sacrifice and misogyny; all these are evils which the holy books (that purport to show us the moral code of a one true creator) brazenly supported and embraced. Any reasonable regardless of creed will abhor all these. But the Abrahamic god, Jesus and Mohammed and co. No.

JustStardust:


So reason will guide us to make decisions on abortion and other modern confusions. Afterall, no holy book predicted and gave advice about such. And thankfully so.

JustStardust:


Let me end with a few questions. If there were no "10 commandments" would you kill and rape and steal? Would you start hurting every one on the road? Funny, 10 commandments never even mentioned rape. Even you know what is good and bad on the basics. Or is it the fear of burning in hell that keeps you from being a murderer or serial rapist?? I don't want to believe so.

PastorAIO:


Because

1) I didn't create it. No one creates their morality. They discover it.

2) It may be subjective but it is Not arbitrary.

PastorAIO:


If you think at all about morality and observe people around you and around the world you will notice that nobody has ever sat down and said 'I'm now going to arbitrarily create more moral sense and just randomly stick things into categories of good and evil.'

If you know anybody that has done so please let us know about this person.

PastorAIO:


Sense of Morality is not arbitrary but rather is formed according to certain systematic rules.

For example a very big influence on our moral sense is our cosmology, i.e.. our worldview.


Take 3 different world views about death. a) Life after death in heaven with Jesus, b)Life after death as a reincarnated person, c)No life after death.

These 3 world views will affect the morality of the people that believe them.

a)the person that believes that this life is just an exam to enter another life hereafter will have a certain attitude to Life. He might be more prepared to sacrifice his life in the here and now for a better chance in the next life. He may well believe that burning a 'witch' to death in this world in order to save her eternal soul in the next life is an act of mercy.

b)the person who believes in reincarnation will have a different attitude about human life. Possibly also a different attitude to the life of animals if he considers that the goat he wants to eat for dinner might actually be his grandmother.

c) the person who believes that this one life is it, a one off unique event in the entirety of history, will have yet another attitude towards human life. He might consider it more precious, he might feel that every second of it should be relished as the unique event it is.

These three people will have different attitudes to murder because they have different beliefs about what exactly they are depriving the victims from.

PastorAIO:


The Long and short of it all….. Sense of Morality does not arise arbitrarily but is a product of our world view/ cosmology/beliefs. Our world view is to a large part derived from our societies subsequently people who come from the same cultural milieu will share the same sense of morality. That fact alone is enough to let any thinking man or woman know that morality is not arrived at arbitrarily. if it was arbitrary everybody would be walking around with their own radically distinct and unique sense of morality.

PastorAIO:


Obviously we don't know everything that there is to know about the world and so our world views are constantly evolving with every new fact that we learn. It follows that if our world views are constantly evolving then our Sense of Morality must perforce evolve along with them.

PastorAIO:


This begs the question: What is the user manual? I know for certain that it is not the bible. If that's what you are referring to then you'll need to prove that the bible is the user manual from the creator.

PastorAIO:


Where did you hear God saying any such thing? Did god say it to your hearing or did somebody tell you that god said it?

PastorAIO:


Thou shalt not make any graven image does not resonate within every conscience universally.

OLAADEGBU:


The 10 commandments cover all rights and wrongs and it resonates within every conscience universally.

finofaya:


There are only 10 rights and wrongs in your universe?

Where did you get the idea that they resonate with everyone? The commandments don't all resonate with me, for starters.

OLAADEGBU:


God created the laws of morality and we have to discover them because of sin.

I have heard folks who believe that truth is relative.

They may be different moral codes but only one is true and that is the basis of our absolute morality that we have to discover if we have lost it.

Some folks have indoctrinate themselves into believing that embezzling government money is not stealing or taking bribe is not corrupt. An armed robber does not believe in the existence of the police until he gets caught. He has somehow convinced himself that they do not exist.

The laws of morality only makes sense in the Christian worldview where God created us in His own image and it will do us a whole world of good if our starting point is based on the Moral laws of God which has been set for our behaviour and these are written with indelible ink upon the table of our hearts when we go back to factory setting.

OLAADEGBU:


"Then Jacob said unto his household, and to all that were with him, Put away the strange gods that are among you, and be clean, and change your garments" (Genesis 35:2).

How did Jacob know that he had to do away with the strange gods (graven images) in his family if you say it wasn't ingrained in his conscience?

OLAADEGBU:


Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth. You better believe it.

OLAADEGBU:


Watch the depiction in the post above this.

Brigance:
Then the Lord God asked me:

"if you don't question a thing, can you conclude the truth from it?"

"Honestly Lord, I don't think so." I replied.

The Lord God smiled and agreed with me. Then He reminded me of how He had to question Adam and Eve about their flagrant bellicose before he banished them from the garden, to ascertain their offense.

Specifically, the Lord God reminded me this portion of His infallible words:

Genesis 3:8-12 New International Version (NIV)

"Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD
God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day,
and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the
garden. But the LORD God called to the man, “Where are
you?”
He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid
because I was naked; so I hid.”
And he said, [b]“Who told you that you were naked? Have
you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat
from?”[/b[
The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she
gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

The Lord concluded: "you see, I can't just conclude they have sinned, I had to ask them. Despite the fact that I knew all along they would sin. Remember I'm the all knowing God."

I became exceeedly glad with the ways of the Lord. And I decided I'd make His way my ways. In my excitement, I foolishly asked the Lord 'Can I make your ways my ways? Can I question the truth of this story?'

Then the anger of the Lord Kindled against me and His eyes burned in fury.

"I'm the consuming fire!" He boomed. And he proceeded to dig pits and pits of fiery furnace for me and my children after me.

Till today, The Lord is still digging and His only begotten son is still seated at his right arm, pleading on my behalf.

A basic knowledge of Canaanite culture reveals its inherent moral wickedness. The Canaanites were a brutal, aggressive people who engaged in bestiality, Inbreeding, and even child sacrifice. Deviant sexual acts were the norm. The Canaanites' sin was so repellent that God said, "The land vomited out its inhabitants" (Leviticus 18:25). Even so, the destruction (of human beings) was directed more at the Canaanite religion (Deuteronomy 7:3–5,12:2-3) than at the Canaanite people per se. The judgment was not ethnically motivated. Individual Canaanites, like Rahab in Jericho, could still find that mercy follows repentance (Joshua 2). God's desire is that the wicked turn from their sin rather than die (Ezekiel 18:31-32, 33:11).

Second, God is sovereign over all of life and can take it whenever He sees fit. God and God alone can give life, and God alone has the right to take it whenever He so chooses. In fact, He ultimately takes every person's life at death. It is not our life to begin with but God's. While it is wrong for us to take a life, except in instances of capital punishment, war, and self-defense, this does not mean that it is wrong for God to do so.

But didn't God also command the Israelites to kill non-combatants? The biblical record is clear that He did. Here again, we must remember that, while it is true the Canaanite women did not fight, this in no way means they were innocent, as their seductive behaviour in Numbers 25 indicates (Numbers 25:1–3). However, the question still remains: what about the children? This is not an easy question to answer, but we must keep several things in mind. First, no human person (including infants) is truly innocent. The Scripture teaches that we are all born in sin (Psalm 51:5; 58:3). This implies that all people are morally culpable for Adam’s sin in some way. Infants are just as condemned from sin as adults are.