There's a God: That was, is and forever will be
There was a Christ: Who chose to die as a sacrificial lamb.


There's the rest of us.....do your part.


-Lloyd

Seun:

What do you think?

Ok . I glanced at it . I think you can only come up with that conclusion

1. If you were a witness to these events to attest to the fact Christ never resurrected - or maybe you are the 13th disciple who knew the truth and have accused the others of lying . Who knows ? Time Travel maybe

2. You failed to understand that Jesus was not totally human , He is God in human flesh and has the power of resurrection . After all isn;t he a member of a group of SUPERnatural entities who are equal in supremacy called the Trinity ?

3. Christians have faith in the authenticity of the resurrection story and Jesus has appeared to numerous people all over the world . So rejecting their experiences and describing them as lies means they actually challenge your unbelief and to remain comfortable in your disbelief you choose to remain close-minded .

Now , I want to ask ; why are you always skeptical about the Christian belief ? If I should renounce my belief because of your conclusion , how exactly will it be salubrious to me ? You have to give me a cogent reason to why anyone should abjure his Christian belief ?

Does this skepticism make any sense to anyone ?

1. You have accused religious people for the death of humans , atheists have done worse - killed over 250 million .

2. You have accused religion for being an encumbrance to development . The most developed countries in the world have the religious preponderant . The most developed cities - Dubai for eg where 99 percent of its population are Muslims .

Astute businessmen , scientists , successful sportsmen - Messi , Ronaldo , Usain Bolt , Muhammed Ali all are dedicated religious people

3. You accused religion for instigating conflicts while in atheist countries , the religious are tortured , put to death and face ignominies because of their belief - that is a blatant abuse of human rights .

4. You claim the religious are poor while Christians have 55 percent of the world's wealth , followed by Muslims (5.8%), Hindus (3.3%) and Jewish (1.1%) and adherents under the classification Irreligion or other religions hold about 34.8% of the total global wealth .

The irreligious consists of people who have no religion (God-believers ) , deists (God-believers ) agnostics and atheists who were once religious.

Can you name any atheists from birth who are greatly successful , anyone ?

Where is this elusive proof that atheism is a better choice ? Where ? Do you now understand why all these make no sense at all

KingEbukaNaija:


Bro , I didn't even read your argument . I know it holds no water so no need to bother . Bill Gate is not an atheist - that's what I caught my attention and I wanted to correct that

Try to read to understand, he specifically stated his point clearly "non believer", or are all non believers athiests? or is Bill Gate a christian? why do you always feels insecure any time a thread is created by an athiest?

Seun:
To be honest, I'm putting my views out there because i believe they are true, and also because I want to start meeting people of like mind.

This thread is not mockery. I'm just observing that the evidence for the belief that Jesus rose from the dead seems to be very weak.

can you put your view concerning islam ? Have you ever create a thread about islam ? You are free to question christians, but I found this post as bias. Are you afraid of the muslims ? Why did you give them separate section ? And on top of that, before someone post on islam section, he must renounce his faith ? This is clear evidence, you are afraid of the muslim.

BeastAmbition:



Try to read to understand, he specifically stated his point clearly "non believer", or are all non believers athiests? or is Bill Gate a christian? why do you always feels insecure any time a thread is created by an athiest?

Any thread created by an atheist is usually reason-deficient with all the bla bla bla against religion as if atheism is anything close to rationality Now , read my second response to him and give me an answer

KingEbukaNaija:


Ok . I glanced at it . I think you can only come up with that conclusion

1. If you were a witness to these events to attest to the fact Christ never resurrected - or maybe you are the 13th disciple who knew the truth and have accused the others of lying . Who knows ? Time Travel maybe

2. You failed to understand that Jesus was not totally human , He is God in human flesh and has the power of resurrection . After all isn;t he a member of a group of SUPERnatural entities who are equal in supremacy called the Trinity ?

3. Christians have faith in the authenticity of the resurrection story and Jesus has appeared to numerous people all over the world . So rejecting their experiences and describing them as lies means they actually challenge your unbelief and to remain comfortable in your disbelief you choose to remain close-minded .

Now , I want to ask ; why are you always skeptical about the Christian belief ? If I should renounce my belief because of your conclusion , how exactly will it be salubrious to me ? You have to give me a cogent reason to why anyone should abjure his Christian belief ?

Does this skepticism make any sense to anyone ?

1. You have accused religious people for the death of humans , atheists have done worse - killed over 250 million .

2. You have accused religion for being an encumbrance to the development . The most developed countries in the world have the religious preponderant . The most developed cities - Dubai for eg where 99 percent of its population are Muslims .

Astute businessmen , scientists , successful sportsmen - Messi , Ronaldo , Usain Bolt , Muhammed Ali all are dedicated religious people

3. You accused religion for instigating conflicts while in atheist countries , the religious are tortured , put to death and face ignominies because of their belief - that is a blatant abuse of human rights .

4. You claim the religious are poor while Christians have 55 percent of the world's wealth , followed by Muslims (5.8%), Hindus (3.3%) and Jewish (1.1%) and adherents under the classification Irreligion or other religions hold about 34.8% of the total global wealth .

The irreligious consists of people who have no religion (God-believers ) , deists (God-believers ) agnostics and atheists who were once religious.

Can you name any atheists from birth who are greatly successful , anyone ?

Where is this elusive proof that atheism is a better choice ? Where ? Do you now understand why all these make no sense at all

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and clear all doubt.

Ranchhoddas:
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and clear all doubt.

Mtcheew , I thought someone reasonable mentioned me

Three pages and nobody has contributed anything remotely sensible. Oga Osewa must be onto something.

KingEbukaNaija:


Mtcheew , I thought someone reasonable mentioned me

Please respond to the thread sensibly. I dare you to disappoint me today.

Ranchhoddas:
Please respond to the thread sensibly. I dare you to disappoint me today.

If Seun can provide any evidence that he was a witness to Jesus' failure to resurrect then I'll love to engage him . And for you , stop stalking me , its creepy . Jeez

iaamxavier:
i still pose this question to atheist y do most atheist bear religious name eg mark zuckerbeg , seun osewa , my friend john etc y dont change their name after converting its quite pathetic tho.

What you are insinuating is that, there was never a Seun before religion made it way to Africa? or that perhaps Mark of the bible was the first person to ever answer to that name?
Your logic is flawed mano.
Besides the meaning of someone's name as regards their belief is insignificant.

Seun:


I was an atheist for years before I started Nairaland. I acknowledge the grace of the real people (not gods) who helped me and keep helping me. I stand on the shoulders of many wonderful people. We all do.

LFC Lawhat? Testimowhat? Bro, I don't think Jesus ever asked anyone to lie for him.


No pestilence has struck down Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, and the many other successful unbelievers in the world, so don't hold your breath. The closest thing to a pestilence in my life actually started when I was a very sincere and devout Christian.

I'm pleased that nobody has disputed my actual arguments. I guess I am right.

@Bolded, Lol bro the things, doings and knowledge of the Heavens and of God can never be understood by man no matter how hard we try, even the most wisest of all man won't be able to, this means you won't be able to get a definate answer, in my own words ''I wasn't there when God created Earth, neither was i there when Jesus Christ was on Earth nor am i wise '' ? so i'll leave the answer to the only thing that can answer you, and thats the Bible,, go back to it, you'll surely find the answers to your questions yourself, and thats when you'll find true Liberation

KingEbukaNaija:


Any thread created by an atheist is usually reason-deficient with all the bla bla bla against religion as if atheism is anything close to rationality Now , read my second response to him and give me an answer

Reason deficient? You really gonna stand by this ludicrous opinion with a straight face?

dablazor:

Reason deficient? You really gonna stand by this ludicrous opinion with a straight face?

The incessant blatant show of ignorance by the atheists is indeed ineffable . Can you give me any reason why atheism is a better choice seeing that atheists are immoral , debauchees , have the disposition to show bigotry and are malevolent towards the religious ?

Seun:
The resurrection of Jesus Christ is probably the most important event in Christianity. Apostle Paul said, "If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith" (I Cor 15:14). He also said, "if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins". Did it really happen, though? Let's look at the evidence.

1. The Empty Tomb And The Men In White

Mark, which was the first gospel to be written, describes the incident in chapter 16:

Is it reasonable to accept this as evidence that Jesus rose from the dead? Let's see.

Jesus was the T B Joshua of his time. He came from a humble background, was loved by the masses because of his miracle ministry, and was hated by the religious establishment which didn't accept him as a true man of God and felt that his teachings were unscriptural.

Now lets imagine that T. B Joshua died, and then 3 days later the 3 women who were closest to him when he was alive in his ministry came to you with this story: That they went to T B Joshua's grave to pray and lay flowers, but when they got there, they saw that the grave had been opened, the body missing and a young guy in a white suit was sitting there. And the guy told them that T B Joshua had risen from the dead.

Would it be reasonable to believe that T B Joshua had risen from the dead on the basis of this testimony? Wouldn't you be suspicious that T B Joshua's body had been stolen by his top pastors to make it appear that he had risen? That the man in white was just an accomplice of the thieves? That maybe the women were hallucinating due to their grief, or simply lying to hype their hero and crush?

Luke's Gospel, written about 10 years later, describes the same incident thus:

Notice how the story has been altered to solve the issues with the first one, and spiced up?

Imagine if, in the hypothetical case of TB Joshua's alleged resurrection, the women who told you about his empty grave came back 10 years later to tell the same story. But this time, instead of a young man in a white suit who was sitting by the grave when they arrived, they claim that there was no one at T B joshua's grave initially and then suddenly, two men in glowing suits as bright as the sun (implying angels) appeared before them and gave them a scriptural lesson. Would those changes make the story more believable to you, or less so?

2. Appearing To His Closest Followers

According to Mark's Gospel,

In short, Jesus' closest followers claimed that he appeared to them at various times after his body went missing. Jesus closest followers had everything to lose by his death, and everything to gain by getting people to believe the resurrection story. They had sold all their posessions and left their families and professions to join Jesus' ministry. With his death, that ministry was finished, but the ressurection story brought it back to life. Knowing about this serious conflict of interest, it reasonable to accept their testimony as evidence that the resurrection actually happened?

If TB Joshua died and the top pastors in his church said he appeared to them, would you believe it for one moment?

3. His Appearance To 500 Believers

According to 1 Corinthians 15:6,

This would seem like the least weak evidence for the resurrection, due to the sheer number of potential witnesses, until you start to wonder why none of the Gospels mentioned it. Not even imaginative Luke of the robes as white as lightening. Why would all the Gospel writers have choosen to leave out what would have been their strongest evidence? 500 witnesses! Because it didn't happen? Because it was too early to tell such a big lie and get away with it? I don't know.

And even if we want to at issume that it happened, we must not forget that it would be quite easy for any illusionist to stage the appearance of Jesus to people who strongly want to believe that he is still alive. Benny Hinn tells a story about Jesus appearing during one of his crusades, and people believe it.

Conclusion:
The evidence for the resurrection of Jesus is a bunch of testimonies attributed to people who had every reason to lie during a period when people were far more superstitious and gullible than we are today because they didn't have science. It's not sufficient to convince an objective modern person that a 3 day old corpse whose brain and heart would have decayed considerably actually came back to life, held meetings in person with various people, and then ascended into outer space. Or ... What do you think?

you fail woefully, first, the resurrection was preach in the SAME city were jesus was buried, will the disciples preach the resurrection if the body is still in the tomb ? Will the disciples DIED for false report ? If the disciples wanted to lie, they wouldn't have preach the resurrection account on the same city.

Secondly, the jews claim the disciples stole the body, this means, the jews admit, the tomb was empty. Now, why will the religious leader claim the body of christ was stolen ? will the disciples able to defect some well train romans army to steal the body of christ ? In fact, the romans army NEVER claim jesus body was stolen, it was the religious leader make the claim of the stolen body, we all know how jesus condemn the act of the same religious leaders, jesus never had a good time with them when he was alive, so you don't expect them to believe His message or resurrection.

Thirdly, did you know that in the first century, the bones of holy men is venerated in their shrine ? Yes, it was. Jesus' tomb was never venerated as a shrine, this prove the tomb was empty and christ is risen.

malvisguy212:
you fail woefully, first, the resurrection was preach in the SAME city were jesus was buried, will the disciples preach the resurrection if the body is still in the tomb ? Will the disciples DIED for false report ? If the disciples wanted to lie, they wouldn't have preach the resurrection account on the same city.

Why would the disciples die for a lie?

Religious People have an amazing ability to deceive even themselves, and that’s what cognitive dissonance is all about. It’s not a conscious process where people examine their beliefs and the actual events and then decide to convince themselves of something. It’s a process of rationalization that occurs, at least partially, at the subconscious level. It’s a well-documented effect, including being shown in doomsday cults. They said the end of the world was going to come on such-and-such a day, and it didn’t come…well they must have delayed it then! Or how about…we’ve just travelled around the countryside for three years with this guy that must have been the Messiah, but now he’s suddenly been killed…well, he must have been resurrected!

Again, this isn’t a conscious thought process. But it happens.

i'll be sending in a more "robust" (lol) response later. But a simple quick question to Seun. How do you know, believe or accept proof that anybody before pictures ever existed?

KingEbukaNaija:


The incessant blatant show of ignorance by the atheists is indeed ineffable . Can you give me any reason why atheism is a better choice seeing that atheists are immoral , debauchees , have the disposition to show bigotry and are malevolent towards the religious ?

Debauchedness, Ignorance, Immorality and Bigotry all these adjectives do no Atheist justice and am not talking referring to the follow-follow ones, if anything your adjectives which you proudly display on your divan defines your regular theist, which you sir just attested to with your unguarded and rather obscene demeanour.
I have met quite a handful atheist and more theist, and having a scale on both belief systems level of ignorance isn't even arguable because its too apparent.

You theists are very rude and you just proved this as well and quite ignorant, and I must add, cowardly; yeah, you guys are cowards, you're too scared too discard an illogical premise because you hold it sacrosanct, inviolable.
Anyway it's your glass of beer.
Here is an unbeliever who begs your reason, which would have made a valid civil argument with good points raised and researched but instead you waned in with all claws and a dragons breath and here you are mirroring your groups reflection on another.
I find this funny.

byteHead:

Why would the disciples die for a lie?

Religious People have an amazing ability to deceive even themselves, and that’s what cognitive dissonance is all about. It’s not a conscious process where people examine their beliefs and the actual events and then decide to convince themselves of something. It’s a process of rationalization that occurs, at least partially, at the subconscious level. It’s a well-documented effect, including being shown in doomsday cults. They said the end of the world was going to come on such-and-such a day, and it didn’t come…well they must have delayed it then! Or how about…we’ve just travelled around the countryside for three years with this guy that must have been the Messiah, but now he’s suddenly been killed…well, he must have been resurrected!

Again, this isn’t a conscious thought process. But it happens.

please, stay mute if you don't have anything to say, we are dealing with first hand witnesses, not just a religious people.

dablazor:

Debauchedness, Ignorance, Immorality and Bigotry all these adjectives do no Atheist justice and am not talking referring to the follow-follow ones, if anything your adjectives which you proudly display on your divan defines your regular theist, which you sir just attested to with your unguarded and rather obscene demeanour.
I have met quite a handful atheist and more theist, and having a scale on both belief systems level of ignorance isn't even arguable because its too apparent.

You theists are very rude and you just proved this as well and quite ignorant, and I must add, cowardly; yeah, you guys are cowards, you're too scared too discard an illogical premise because you hold it sacrosanct, inviolable.
Anyway it's your glass of beer.
Here is an unbeliever who begs your reason, which would have made a valid civil argument with good points raised and researched but instead you waned in with all claws and a dragons breath and here you are mirroring your groups reflection on another.
I find this funny.

I still haven't seen where you pointed out why atheism is a better choice .

Seun has been insulting Christianity with utmost profanity, he has no right at all to debate a religion is not part of unless he is sufferring from persecution complex, why is he not talking about islam in a similar manner? why can't xtians believe in peace without his endless assaults on the faith?
He is overreaching his boundaries on that subject matter of the xtian fate, he should step back and apologise on the front page, ritababe is right!

Fynestboi:



He never insulted my (Christianity) religion, he is only been a critic, and by the virtue of my discipline there is no crime in been a critic.

Criticism never implies rejection.

he is a pathetic individual leave him to his profanities

malvisguy212:
you fail woefully, first, the resurrection was preach in the SAME city were jesus was buried, will the disciples preach the resurrection if the body is still in the tomb ? Will the disciples DIED for false report ? If the disciples wanted to lie, they wouldn't have preach the resurrection account on the same city.

Secondly, the jews claim the disciples stole the body, this means, the jews admit, the tomb was empty. Now, why will the religious leader claim the body of christ was stolen ? will the disciples able to defect some well train romans army to steal the body of christ ? In fact, the romans army NEVER claim jesus body was stolen, it was the religious leader make the claim of the stolen body, we all know how jesus condemn the act of the same religious leaders, jesus never had a good time with them when he was alive, so you don't expect them to believe His message or resurrection.

Thirdly, did you know that in the first century, the bones of holy men is venerated in their shrine ? Yes, it was. Jesus' tomb was never venerated as a shrine, this prove the tomb was empty and christ is risen.

the fact that you believe does not make it TRUE, and stop mocking my faith in whatever form, stop spewing profanities against our faith just because we r peace loving, only a coward does that! Try it with Islam!!!

Seun:
To be honest, I'm putting my views out there because i believe they are true, and also because I want to start meeting people of like mind.

This thread is not mockery. I'm just observing that the evidence for the belief that Jesus rose from the dead seems to be very weak.

They didn't testify about the resurrection. This thread is focused on that.

Tnx, but I think most Nairaland members are smart enough to see the flaws. They may not acknowledge them, but they will see them.

Seun:
To be honest, I'm putting my views out there because i believe they are true, and also because I want to start meeting people of like mind.

This thread is not mockery. I'm just observing that the evidence for the belief that Jesus rose from the dead seems to be very weak.

They didn't testify about the resurrection. This thread is focused on that.

Tnx, but I think most Nairaland members are smart enough to see the flaws. They may not acknowledge them, but they will see them.

. I think we should listen to him . He witnessed it and came via Time Travel to warn us

KingEbukaNaija:


If Seun can provide any evidence that he was a witness to Jesus' failure to resurrect then I'll love to engage him . And for you , stop stalking me , its creepy . Jeez

Superior logic can cause paranoia. It makes you feel like someone is stalking you. I did not expect you to come up with something reasonable though. Oga Seun is clearly not going to get anything out of the thread.

byteHead:

Why would the disciples die for a lie?

Religious People have an amazing ability to deceive even themselves, and that’s what cognitive dissonance is all about. It’s not a conscious process where people examine their beliefs and the actual events and then decide to convince themselves of something. It’s a process of rationalization that occurs, at least partially, at the subconscious level. It’s a well-documented effect, including being shown in doomsday cults. They said the end of the world was going to come on such-and-such a day, and it didn’t come…well they must have delayed it then! Or how about…we’ve just travelled around the countryside for three years with this guy that must have been the Messiah, but now he’s suddenly been killed…well, he must have been resurrected!

Again, this isn’t a conscious thought process. But it happens.

Abeg , if you dont have anything reasonable to say , keep quiet

KingEbukaNaija:


I still haven't seen where you pointed out why atheism is a better choice .

Oh. you really are expecting me to convince you? No hermano, i won't do that, I am not obligated to.
I am a theist from birth and remained so for a little over two decades, and yet i found reason myself
and preferred my status quo, nobody personally influenced my decision to segue, so if you refuse to
see reason despite far fetched hitherto compelling evidences, and common logic, then its your choice
to be a diehard.
Besides am Agnostic.

Ranchhoddas:
Superior logic can cause paranoia. It makes you feel like someone is stalking you. I did not expect you to come up with something reasonable though. Oga Seun is clearly not going to get anything out of the thread.

Superior logic ? From who ?

Anyway, you always mention me when apparently you have nothing reasonable to say like you are doing now . I'm not gay by the way .

Atheism has nothing to offer humanity and it will never have . Winner01 and I have always delineated atheism for what it is . Which argument have you brought forward that is worth anyone's attention ?

dablazor:

Oh. you really are expecting me to convince you? No hermano, i won't do that, I am not obligated to.
I am a theist from birth and remained so for a little over two decades, and yet i found reason myself
and preferred my status quo, nobody personally influenced my decision to segue, so if you refuse to
see reason despite far fetched hitherto compelling evidences, and common logic, then its your choice
to be a diehard.
Besides am Agnostic.

I wonder why you are floundering over a simple request . Can you show us why atheism is a better choice , Im not sure what Im going to do with your circumlocution . Stop your show of grandiloquence and start making sense .

KingEbukaNaija:


I wonder why you are floundering over a simple request . Can you show us why atheism is a better choice , Im not sure what Im going to do with your circumlocution . Stop your show of grandiloquence and start making sense .

Well... enjoy the rest of your day.