ikombe:
Are you saying God had no purpose for us . That he gave only the white people the brain to build schools and other health facilities. Mind you before the white people came we have been treating our selfs traditionaly which has and will still be 1 of the most effective way of threating illness. The same people who brought dis things to you is telling you a gay has right and even d pope is telling christians to apologise to the gays. Are you saying God promotes gay . 50% of there ungodly teachings is what they are promoting now .

Oh dear !

khaynoni:


Don't let's derail boy, focus on the topic at hand.

Haha ... another craven atheist who stirs up a fight and then gives up halfway

khaynoni:
They will rather insult and call you names than refute it. Sometimes I wonder why some people deliberately turn blind eyes to the truth when it's staring right at them.

what is the truth ? Do you know the truth ? Have you search for the truth ,if truly God does not exist ? Or do you take everything science provide as the final truth ? I know their is God, this I know, with 100 percent.

KingEbukaNaija:


Haha ... another craven atheist who stirs up a fight and then gives up halfway

Clap for yourself, you just won yourself a gold medal. Now can you please address the topic raised. Thank you

Seun:




No pestilence has struck down Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, and the many other successful unbelievers in the world, so don't hold your breath. The closest thing to a pestilence in my life actually started when I was a very sincere and devout Christian.

I'm pleased that nobody has disputed my actual arguments. I guess I am right.

Egbon seun, Bill gate is not an atheist o,
that's defamation... I should ban u sef.

Paradox hovering all over the thread. .

Seun:
Please let us stick to the topic or we will be banned. Rule 1 says, "don't derail threads by posting off topic." Thank you.

We You mean N'Landers minus You

Who dares ban a whole oga seun himself? Even Mynd44 no dare

Seun:
I guess nobody wants to shed more light on the evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ, which is what this thread about. Not atheism.

[b]

This might help.


...I'm sure you've heard of the various theories used to explain away the empty tomb, such as that the body was stolen. But those theories are laughed at today by all serious scholars. In fact, they have been considered dead and refuted for almost a hundred years. For example, the Jews or Romans had no motive to steal the body--they wanted to suppress Christianity, not encourage it by providing it with an empty tomb. The disciples would have had no motive, either. Because of their preaching on the resurrection, they were beaten, killed, and persecuted. Why would they go through all of this for a deliberate lie? No serious scholars hold to any of these theories today. What explanation, then, do the critics offer, you may ask? Craig tells us that "they are self-confessedly without any explanation to offer. There is simply no plausible natural explanation today to account for Jesus' tomb being empty.
If we deny the resurrection of Jesus, we are left with an inexplicable mystery." The resurrection of Jesus is not just the best explanation for the empty tomb, it is the only explanation in town! [/b]

Read more here: http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/historical-evidence-for-the-resurrection

malvisguy212:
what is the truth ? Do you know the truth ? Have you search for the truth ,if truly God does not exist ? Or do you take everything science provide as the final truth ? I know their is God, this I know, with 100 percent.

I usually smile when I see stuffs like this. In case you've forgotten, atheists were once theists so talking about search for god isn't new to me. I've been in your shoes before and I know how it feels (nothing but delusion).
Abeg no let me chop ban
Focus! Address the contradictory passages he quoted from your so called holy book.

malvisguy212:
please, stay mute if you don't have anything to say, we are dealing with first hand witnesses, not just a religious people.

Religious people.....when it is obvious that the truth contradicts your personal beliefs, you call it illogical and not sensible...

In this age of information, ignorance is a choice.

KingEbukaNaija:

Oh dear !

lol. Funny meme

malvisguy212:
can you put your view concerning islam ? Have you ever create a thread about islam ? You are free to question christians, but I found this post as bias. Are you afraid of the muslims ? Why did you give them separate section ? And on top of that, before someone post on islam section, he must renounce his faith ? This is clear evidence, you are afraid of the muslim.

Shut up!

Why don't you just check his threads instead of spitting rubbish here?

Honestly, anything could have happened to the body. My major issue is the Ascension. Was it only the disciples that met him at Galilee? Are there any non disciples that saw Jesus after the so called resurrection?


BTW...To those insinuating that seun has been attacking Christians alone because he's scared of muslims...He was once a Christian and not a Muslim. Obviously he knows a lot about the religion he left. He has done his own research and is clearly trying to open everyone's eyes using his forum.

If you haven't noticed Christianity has a great deal of loopholes and yet it's only Christians that you'll see evangelising up and down. It would be a lot more sensible if Christians search for evidence to back their claims rather than calling seun an antichrist. Seriously? Is that all you guys have to say?

Lastly...he was named Oluwaseun by his parents. Surely you don't expect him to change his name because he is now an atheist.



Hope I didn't derail sha. I really like what you're doing seun. It has been somewhat educating. When I tell people I'm a free thinker, they gimme this really weird look and say, 'How can a girl be a free thinker? '

Maybe I'll graduate to atheist level very soon.
I would really like to read your materials. Could you help with some sites or something?

malvisguy212:
address my first post, will the disciples ready to die for something that is lie?

There are so many possible answers to that question:
1) People often risk their lives for lies. Someone who lied for a long time might rather risk death than allow the truth to destroy his life's work.
2) When death came, they may not have been given the option of telling the truth in exchange for their lives. They may have had no choice.
3) It is possible that a third party was responsible for the missing body and the disciples only saw Jesus in visions rather than bodily. Then over time the stories of their spiritual (imaginary) encounters with Jesus might have been spiced up dramatically by people trying to prove that Jesus rose physically from the dead. In this case, if they were in fact martyred, they would have chosen to die for what they thought was the truth but was only in their minds. In the time of Paul there were Christians called "gnostics" who believed that the resurrection was only spiritual.

malvisguy212:
you fail woefully, first, the resurrection was preach in the SAME city were jesus was buried, will the disciples preach the resurrection if the body is still in the tomb ? Will the disciples DIED for false report ? If the disciples wanted to lie, they wouldn't have preach the resurrection account on the same city.

That's your opinion, and like Seun said, "Jesus closest followers had everything to lose by his death, and everything to gain by getting people to believe the resurrection story. They had sold all their posessions and left their families and professions to join Jesus' ministry. With his death, that ministry was finished, but the ressurection story brought it back to life. Knowing about this serious conflict of interest, it reasonable to accept their testimony as evidence that the resurrection actually happened?"

Secondly, the jews claim the disciples stole the body, this means, the jews admit, the tomb was empty. Now, why will the religious leader claim the body of christ was stolen ? will the disciples able to defect some well train romans army to steal the body of christ ? In fact, the romans army NEVER claim jesus body was stolen, it was the religious leader make the claim of the stolen body, we all know how jesus condemn the act of the same religious leaders, jesus never had a good time with them when he was alive, so you don't expect them to believe His message or resurrection.

[b] We all know this account was according to Matthew and we know what Matthew was trying to do here. This is a ploy to start the so-called "rumour" that Christian's have found useful ever since – the "stolen body" straw man which you are trying to use here:Matthew 28.11-15 " While the women were on their way,some of the guards went into the city and reported to the chief priests everything that had happened. When the chief priests had met with the elders and DEVISED A PLAN, they gave the soldiers a large sum of money, telling them, "You are to say, 'His disciples came during the night and stole him away [size=13pt] WHILE WE WERE ASLEEP [/size] .' If this report gets to the governor, we will satisfy him and keep you out of trouble." So the soldiers took the money and did as they were instructed. And this story has been widely circulated among the Jews to this very day ." –

This^ entire episode is directed at the objection that if the body wasn't in the tomb then an obvious explanation would be that somebody had removed it. The guards and the "sealing of the sepulchre" are intended to silence this objection.

Why did the guards have to be made "as dead men"? Surely extra witnesses to the momentous event would have been useful? Precisely because the story is a fabrication. If it had really happened the testimony of a squad of temple guards,not followers of Jesus, would have started a chain of events that just did not happen.

As a "real event" the passage is beset with problems. [u] How on earth did the comatose guards know "everything that had happened"? How could they admit to being asleep yet be certain that the disciples had stolen the body? Even more difficult to explain is how is the author of Matthew could himself possibly know of the dastardly plan hatched by the chief priests and elders? [/b]

Thirdly, did you know that in the first century, the bones of holy men is venerated in their shrine ? Yes, it was. Jesus' tomb was never venerated as a shrine, this prove the tomb was empty and christ is risen.

This amounts to nothing. I was expecting you to counter his valid points in the op, all I see here are woeful lies and rants that hold no water..


BTW where is truthman2012, I haven't seen that old clown for weeks?

babysmart:
Honestly, anything could have happened to the body. My major issue is the Ascension. Was it only the disciples that met him at Galilee? Are there any non disciples that saw Jesus after the so called resurrection?


BTW...To those insinuating that seun has been attacking Christians alone because he's scared of muslims...He was once a Christian and not a Muslim. Obviously he knows a lot about the religion he left. He has done his own research and is clearly trying to open everyone's eyes using his forum.

If you haven't noticed Christianity has a great deal of loopholes and yet it's only Christians that you'll see evangelising up and down. It would be a lot more sensible if Christians search for evidence to back their claims rather than calling seun an antichrist. Seriously? Is that all you guys have to say?

Lastly...he was named Oluwaseun by his parents. Surely you don't expect him to change his name because he is now an atheist.



Hope I didn't derail sha. I really like what you're doing seun. It has been somewhat educating. When I tell people I'm a free thinker, they gimme this really weird look and say, 'How can a girl be a free thinker? '

Maybe I'll graduate to atheist level very soon.
I would really like to read your materials. Could you help with some sites or something?

You cant do anything against the Truth,was once in the same shoe Seun is founding himself. Every proof shows God exist and Jesus resurrected. Life is a choice

angels09:
the fact that you believe does not make it TRUE, and stop mocking my faith in whatever form, stop spewing profanities against our faith just because we r peace loving, only a coward does that! Try it with Islam!!!

Butthurt

E pain am

Seun:
There are so many possible answers to that question:
1) People often risk their lives for lies. Someone who lied for a long time might rather risk death than allow the truth to destroy his life's work.
2) When death came, they may not have been given the option of telling the truth in exchange for their lives. They may have had no choice.
3) It is possible that a third party was responsible for the missing body and the disciples only saw Jesus in visions rather than bodily. Then over time the stories of their spiritual (imaginary) encounters with Jesus might have been spiced up dramatically by people trying to prove that Jesus rose physically from the dead. In this case, if they were in fact martyred, they would have chosen to die for what they thought was the truth but was only in their minds. In the time of Paul there were Christians called "gnostics" who believed that the resurrection was only spiritual.

So they were beaten, persecuted and killed for a deliberate lie ? What will they achieve for this lie ? One fact still stand, the TOMB WAS EMPTY, were would the body go ? What explanation will you give concerning the empty tomb ? to say the disciples stole his body is laughable. 11 people would not just give their life for something they know is a lie. Chose among this 3
1.Are they lying ?.
2.they hallucinated ?
3.They actually saw the risen christ ?

Chose among the 3, I have question for you. Thank you.

Rilwayne001:


That's your opinion, and like Seun said, "Jesus closest followers had everything to lose by his death, and everything to gain by getting people to believe the resurrection story. They had sold all their posessions and left their families and professions to join Jesus' ministry. With his death, that ministry was finished, but the ressurection story brought it back to life. Knowing about this serious conflict of interest, it reasonable to accept their testimony as evidence that the resurrection actually happened?"




[b] We all know this account was according to Matthew and we know what Matthew was trying to do here. This is a ploy to start the so-called "rumour" that Christian's have found useful ever since – the "stolen body" straw man which you are trying to use here:Matthew 28.11-15 " While the women were on their way,some of the guards went into the city and reported to the chief priests everything that had happened. When the chief priests had met with the elders and DEVISED A PLAN, they gave the soldiers a large sum of money, telling them, "You are to say, 'His disciples came during the night and stole him away [size=13pt] WHILE WE WERE ASLEEP [/size] .' If this report gets to the governor, we will satisfy him and keep you out of trouble." So the soldiers took the money and did as they were instructed. And this story has been widely circulated among the Jews to this very day ." –

This^ entire episode is directed at the objection that if the body wasn't in the tomb then an obvious explanation would be that somebody had removed it. The guards and the "sealing of the sepulchre" are intended to silence this objection.

Why did the guards have to be made "as dead men"? Surely extra witnesses to the momentous event would have been useful? Precisely because the story is a fabrication. If it had really happened the testimony of a squad of temple guards,not followers of Jesus, would have started a chain of events that just did not happen.

As a "real event" the passage is beset with problems. [u] How on earth did the comatose guards know "everything that had happened"? How could they admit to being asleep yet be certain that the disciples had stolen the body? Even more difficult to explain is how is the author of Matthew could himself possibly know of the dastardly plan hatched by the chief priests and elders? [/b]




This amounts to nothin. I was expecting you to counter his valid points in the op. All I see here is just a woeful lies and rants that hold no water..

Address the OP or shut up there

BTW where is truthman2012, I haven't seen that old clown for weeks?

okay.

Engrobiorah:
Full name OLUWASEUN Wats d full meaning abeg?

what dictionary told you that oluwa has anything to do with your religion?
I hope you know that Sango, Oduduwa, Orunmila etc are Oluwas in yorubaland?

macof:


what dictionary told you that oluwa has anything to do with your religion?

I hope you know that Sango, Oduduwa, Orunmila etc are Oluwas in yorubaland?

.

malvisguy212:
So they were beaten, persecuted and killed for a deliberate lie ? What will they achieve for this lie ? One fact still stand, the TOMB WAS EMPTY, were would the body go ? What explanation will you give concerning the empty tomb ? to say the disciples stole his body is laughable. 11 people would not just give their life for something they know is a lie. Chose among this 3
1.Are they lying ?.
2.they hallucinated ?
3.They actually saw the risen christ ?

Chose among the 3, I have question for you. Thank you.

No need to continue the argument . He is obviously making up anything as a rebuttal , nothing verisimilitudinous about his tale . What the heck is "people risk their lives for lies " , the whole thing is becoming a child's play .

macof:


what dictionary told you that oluwa has anything to do with your religion?

I hope you know that Sango, Oduduwa, Orunmila etc are Oluwas in yorubaland?

You are talking poo.
I asked a simple question.
He is an atheist, which means he doesnt believe in any god, den wat is oluwa which means god still doin in his name?

ikombe:
lol. Funny meme

Ikr ! That was my exact reaction to whatever you conjured up as a rebuttal . Come back with something worth paying attention to .

Peace

KingEbukaNaija:


No need to continue the argument . He is obviously making up anything as a rebuttal , nothing verisimilitudinous about his tale . What the heck is "people risk their lives for lies " , the whole thing is becoming a child's play .

thank you my brother, 11 peasant were able to ROLL A GIANT stone and stole the body while the guard are still sleeping. Maby they put on ear piece while sleeping so they could not hear noise.

malvisguy212:
thank you my brother, 11 peasant were able to ROLL A GIANT stone and stole the body while the guard are still sleeping. Maby they put on ear piece while sleeping so they could not hear noise.

Lmao . And they'll tell you its logical thinking . Atheism is a complete joke

malvisguy212:
So they were beaten, persecuted and killed for a deliberate lie ? What will they achieve for this lie ? One fact still stand, the TOMB WAS EMPTY, were would the body go ? What explanation will you give concerning the empty tomb ? to say the disciples stole his body is laughable. 11 people would not just give their life for something they know is a lie. Chose among this 3
1.Are they lying ?.
2.they hallucinated ?
3.They actually saw the risen christ ?

Chose among the 3, I have question for you. Thank you.

Okay, let's do this. We could spend ages indulging in endless speculations that have nothing to do with reality, so let's not do that. Let's anchor our speculations in reality by discussing only the things we have evidence for.

You seem to believe that the 11 disciples were all beaten, persecuted and killed for insisting that Jesus rose from the dead. That they all had a chance to save their lives by confessing that Jesus did not rise from the dead, but they all refused to do that, and for this reason they were all killed. Show me the evidence for that.

(Rilwayne001, thanks for your insightful comments on the Matthew story.)

urahara:



Pretty girl no one is entitled to respect your religion

But ur entitled to keep your freaking opinions to urself.
We will continue to serve Jesus, and He is your Lord no matter how much you fight Him, hate Him or want him not to exist

Engrobiorah:

You are talking poo.
I asked a simple question.
He is an atheist, which means he doesnt believe in any god, den wat is oluwa which means god still doin in his name?

oluwa means Master or Lord not God. so shut the hell up

KingEbukaNaija:


Superior logic ? From who ?

Anyway, you always mention me when apparently you have nothing reasonable to say like you are doing now . I'm not gay by the way .

Atheism has nothing to offer humanity and it will never have . Winner01 and I have always delineated atheism for what it is . Which argument have you brought forward that is worth anyone's attention ?

Seun again . Its not surprising. He's doing the little he can for his country. Ive missed the party though. Maybe he should tell us why anybody needs to believe anything since life is ultimately pointless.
I no get too time now, ill make my submissions tmao.

winner01:
Seun again . Its not surprising. He's doing the little he can for his country. Ive missed the party though. Maybe he should tell us why anybody needs to believe anything since life is ultimately pointless.
I no get too time now, ill make my submissions tmao.

lmao @ "he is doing the little he can for his country" . I've been asking the same thing oo in a different way , what's the point of atheism exactly? Maybe being an atheist automatically bestows intelligence on people , na him sabi o

If he doubts the resurrection story , how it take concern us . Im very sure he believes in science myths like abiogenesis even with the apparent lack of evidence and he does not scrutinize these things . There are many beliefs atheists have that don't add up at all .

Remove the log from your eye before you try to do same to others .

North Korea's atheist president is planning to subjugate the world and is threatening world peace . No atheist bats an eye .