analice107:

And you will never see him say a word against Islam. Someone said he is afraid of muslims.
Atheists don't issues with other religions, it's only Christianity, Shouldn't that tell you there's something about us?

Suprisingly I've been on threads where muslims make this same claim that atheist and christians are always ganging up to fight against Islam. You guys always have the same strategy. Trying to play the victim card and say everybody is against you.

winner01:
Seun again . Its not surprising. He's doing the little he can for his country. Ive missed the party though. Maybe he should tell us why anybody needs to believe anything since life is ultimately pointless.
I no get too time now, ill make my submissions tmao.

How does a person not believing in the Jesus story or the Jewish stories in the OT make his/her life pointless? So because I refuse to believe that some imaginary idea created by some ancient people which says that some God sacrificed himself unto himself to forgive humans for the defect he himself allegedly created means my life isn't meaningful? Is your life meaningless because you refuse to accept the Hindu religious stories? What about the life of the muslim? Is it usless because he refuses to accept your own stories and thinks you are a fool for accepting and believing them?

analice107:

And you will never see him say a word against Islam. Someone said he is afraid of muslims.
Atheists don't issues with other religions, it's only Christianity, Shouldn't that tell you there's something about us?

maybe he prefer the seven virgins

Seun:
I guess nobody wants to shed more light on the evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ, which is what this thread about. Not atheism.

Sir, you always on religious thread wanting to argue over oda religions. I advice you stick to the religion you believe in or are trying to gather followers.I dont get Sir.

You guys here are talking about proof that he rose from the dead, based off a book that has talking snakes, men walking on water (maybe by utilising chakra control lol), and magical fires.
Meanwhile, science is coming closer to proving that Jesus might not have even existed. . . The romans were known to be highly articulate and organised people and in ALL government records from that time, there is NOT ONE mention of this magical man

.

I believe Mr. Seun was not born an atheist. One thing or the other might have led to that..probably life challenges. As much as I like him, I'm beginning to know some things about him. I think your full name is OLUWAseun if I'm correct. What could have led to your atheistic belief sir?

dalaman:


Suprisingly I've been on threads where muslims make this same claim that atheist and christians are always ganging up to fight against Islam. You guys always have the same strategy. Trying to play the victim card and say everybody is against you.

what else did you expect

AnonyNymous:
You guys here are talking about proof that he rose from the dead, based off a book that has talking snakes, men walking on water (maybe by utilising chakra control lol), and magical fires.
Meanwhile, science is coming closer to proving that Jesus might not have even existed. . . The romans were known to be highly articulate and organised people and in ALL government records from that time, there is NOT ONE mention of this magical man

Gosh , this comment is suffused with ignorance and delusion . A gallimaufry of vacuous thoughts . Eeew !

dalaman:


How does a person not believing in the Jesus story or the Jewish stories in the OT make his/her life pointless? So because I refuse to believe that some imaginary idea created by some ancient people which says that some God sacrificed himself unto himself to forgive humans for the defect he himself allegedly created means my life isn't meaningful? Is your life meaningless because you refuse to accept the Hindu religious stories? What about the life of the muslim? Is it usless because he refuses to accept your own stories and thinks you are a fool for accepting and believing them?

Here he goes with his threadbare arguments . This has been dealt with before not once not twice . Its like repeating this same opinion is your hobby , sorry for attempting to deprive you of the joy you derive from it

KingEbukaNaija:


Here he goes with his threadbare arguments . This has been dealt with before not once not twice . Its like repeating this same opinion is your hobby , sorry for attempting to deprive you of the joy you derive from it

You have never shown me how dis believing in the Jesus stories make life pointless. Is the life of a muslim pointless because he disbelieves in your God stories? You believe all muslims will end up in hell because they refuse to accept your Jesus stories. Is their earthly life pointless as a result of their unbelief?

KingEbukaNaija:


Gosh , this comment is suffused with ignorance and delusion . A gallimaufry of vacuous thoughts . Eeew !

I'd like you to:
Delusion: belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by a rational argument
Where is the 'delusion' in my comment? Rather you should give me a rational explanation for talking snakes so you can show me that you are not deluded, because judging by your comment, it appears that you believe in that.
Ignorance: lack of knowledge or information.
From my comment, I said he MIGHT not have existed, as I have been reading up on this issue. Here's a link: http://www.alternet.org/belief/5-reasons-suspect-jesus-never-existed
Don't use words that you dont know the meaning of please.
I consider myself an agnostic humanist, not sure whether to believe in god or not, but believe that love for our fellow human being can be achieved without any religion.
If you are ready to have a meaningful discussion with me, say so. If not, bye.

AnonyNymous:

I'd like you to:
Delusion: belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by a rational argument
Where is the 'delusion' in my comment? Rather you should give me a rational explanation for talking snakes so you can show me that you are not deluded, because judging by your comment, it appears that you believe in that.
Ignorance: lack of knowledge or information.
From my comment, I said he MIGHT not have existed, as I have been reading up on this issue. Here's a link: http://www.alternet.org/belief/5-reasons-suspect-jesus-never-existed
Don't use words that you dont know the meaning of please.
I consider myself an agnostic humanist, not sure whether to believe in god or not, but believe that love for our fellow human being can be achieved without any religion.
If you are ready to have a meaningful discussion with me, say so. If not, bye.

Oh look ! ... Another pleb I have to engage in a logomachy with . The preponderance of evidence for Christ's existence is so overwhelming - that serves as the "rational argument " - the only contentious thing about Christ's life was his marital status . A Harvard professor just recently revealed the truth => https://www.nairaland.com/3187004/wow-harvard-professor-reveals-truth .

And please when you are adducing articles to support your claims , let them be from credible sources . Thank you

dalaman:


You have never shown me how dis believing in the Jesus stories make life pointless. Is the life of a muslim pointless because he disbelieves in your God stories? You believe all muslims will end up in hell because they refuse to accept your Jesus stories. Is their earthly life pointless as a result of their unbelief?

First

Winner01 said :

Maybe he should tell us why anybody needs to believe anything since life is ultimately pointless.

He simply wants to know the point of believing if life is pointless . You can make other rational deductions like what is the point of atheism or recanting a religious belief when life has no purpose .

Now to your senseless rant , the pantheists believe that the universe exists for itself, without cause or purpose. Nothing existed before it that could have been its cause. Nothing exists outside it that could be the source of its purpose. I believe you atheists subscribe to this show of ignorance and close-mindeness

But the religious people understand that life has a purpose and the purpose of life can only be from its creator . All religious people be it Christian , Muslim or whatever believe that life has a purpose and things happen for different reasons known to the creator . The disparity in our beliefs does not rule out the fact that life has a purpose .

KingEbukaNaija:


First

Winner01 said :

Maybe he should tell us why anybody needs to believe anything since life is ultimately pointless.

He simply wants to know the point of believing if life is pointless . You can make other rational deductions like what is the point of atheism or recanting a religious belief when life has no purpose .

Now to your senseless rant , the pantheists believe that the universe exists for itself, without cause or purpose. Nothing existed before it that could have been its cause. Nothing exists outside it that could be the source of its purpose. I believe you atheists subscribe to this show of ignorance and close-mindeness

But the religious people understand that life has a purpose and the purpose of life can only be from its creator . All religious people be it Christian , Muslim or whatever believe that life has a purpose and things happen for different reasons known to the creator . The disparity in our beliefs does not rule out the fact that life has a purpose .

Why is life purposeless for an atheist? I as an atheist simply disbelief in God but I don't believe that life is purposeless. Purpose in life depends on what you make of it. An atheist can be a humanist that itself is a purpose. He can be a hedonist, it is also a purpose. Saying that atheistism equates to life being purposeless is IDIOTIC. An ISIS Militant believes that Allah commands him to kill infidels like you. Is his life without purpose? Stop talking foolishly. Recieve sense my brother.

KingEbukaNaija:


Oh look ! ... Another pleb I have to engage in a logomachy with . The preponderance of evidence for Christ's existence is so overwhelming - that serves as the "rational argument " - the only contentious thing about Christ's life was his marital status . A Harvard professor just recently revealed the truth => https://www.nairaland.com/3187004/wow-harvard-professor-reveals-truth .

And please when you are adducing articles to support your claims , let them be from credible sources . Thank you

First off, you don't "have to". . . Also, as there is reason to believe Christ existed, as well as reason to believe he didn't. The link I sent to you states some possible reasons he might not have existed, and I was expecting you to bring forth some arguments to show me why those reasons aren't meaningful. I'm actually here to listen so for now can we respect ourselves and have a discussion if you're interested?
The link you sent to me is just talking about a forged document, thats not what I'm talking about.

AnonyNymous:

First off, you don't "have to". . . Also, as there is reason to believe Christ existed, as well as reason to believe he didn't. The link I sent to you states some possible reasons he might not have existed, and I was expecting you to bring forth some arguments to show me why those reasons aren't meaningful. I'm actually here to listen so for now can we respect ourselves and have a discussion if you're interested?
The link you sent to me is just talking about a forged document, thats not what I'm talking about.

Is the author of the article disputing Christ's existence as a witness during that period of time ? No . The site is not a credible one and whatever arguments that were made are only thoughts from someone ignorant . There are also sites that claim Christ is someone from a higher civilization - a hybrid of human and alien - with their own reasons too .

If I have to pay attention to your source , I'd do same to those Christ-is-an-alien-hybrid sites too . Those ones even agree that he did exist though .

dalaman:


The problem is that you guys ASSUME that the stories were written by an eye witness. Remember these stories were written at least 40 -70 years after the alleged event by christians who were telling stories about Jesus to promote the newly founded religion. These guys were just writing fiction that is why the gospel account concerning the resurrection kept changing and being embellished. The first gospel said the women saw man, the next gospel written 10 years after the second one said they saw two men buy the time you get to the last gospel written like 30 years after the first they ladies saw two angels. The writers of the gospel were us writing their stories for people to believe and follow their new religion. They weren't writing down actually historical events. The gospels were written way to long after the supposed event happened to carry any true meaning.

Inspiration is not the endowment of man with omniscience. It is God through man inspite of the frailty and infirmities of the latter. Hence details left off by Mark is supplied by Matthew etc in agreement with the One Body perspective in the NT.

And were the disciples persecuted for a fiction? Martyred for spreading a fiction? And myriads of people have believed and are still believing this 'Fiction' and they are being gloriously transformed even at present? Finding its promises continually and blessedly true (now you and your ilks may blaspheme to lowest hell but it changes nothing of what I know here!!!)

Well stay high up in the tower your ''higher knowledge'' places you, Blessed be the 'Fiction that revealed Jesus to me, was and is still being attested to as the only Book that transforms instantaneously!

I'd rather remain in this despised place with this Blessed 'Fiction' than be confered a high and dry, ego-feeding but soul damning, grandiloquent but empty tower of vain superiority!

dalaman:


Why is life purposeless for an atheist? I as an atheist simply disbelief in God but I don't believe that life is purposeless. Purpose in life depends on what you make of it. An atheist can be a humanist that itself is a purpose. He can be a hedonist, it is also a purpose. Saying that atheistism equates to life being purposeless is IDIOTIC. An ISIS Militant believes that Allah commands him to kill infidels like you. Is his life without purpose? Stop talking foolishly. Recieve sense my brother.

Lol brother dalaman , brother dalaman , why the blatant show of disingeniousness ? I am talking of the general purpose of life - why the universe exists in the first place . You are just narrowing it down to personal lives of people and what they choose to make of it - we christians discuss about that you know , knowing God's plan or purpose for your life .

Apparently the atheists subscribe to the pantheist's view of a purposeless universe . Sit down and cogitate on these things , what's the purpose of anything , why do I keep denying God's existence because he does not fit into my definitions etc

KingEbukaNaija:


Lol brother dalaman , brother dalaman , why the blatant show of disingeniousness ? I am talking of the general purpose of life - why the universe exists in the first place . You are just narrowing it down to personal lives of people and what they choose to make of it - we christians discuss about that you know , knowing God's plan or purpose for your life .

Apparently the atheists subscribe to the pantheist's view of a purposeless universe . Sit down and cogitate on these things , what's the purpose of anything , why do I keep denying God's existence because he does not fit into my definitions etc

The person that is disingenuous is actually you. You seem to try to force this narrative of yours that the life of atheist is pointless. Many atheist hold different beliefs when it comes to the purpose of life. As for the purpose of God's plan, that also varies from.religion to religion. Me I don't believe in any God but I still have purpose to live and enjoy myself. That I believe that death ends it all doesn't mean my life is without purpose. Purpose in life depends on what you make of it. As for creation of the earth and universe as a whole. I do not know has always been.my position. What is the purpose of the universe? Your answer will differ from that of a Hindu or buddisht. Life's purpose is what ever you make of it that is why different religions have different states purpose of life. Being an atheist doesn't mean you see.life as pointless.

Seun:
The resurrection of Jesus Christ is probably the most important event in Christianity. Apostle Paul said, "If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith" (I Cor 15:14). He also said, "if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins".

Superb, very true, verily accurate. Though i asked you a good question but you refused or could not answer.

Did it really happen, though? Let's look at the evidence.

1. The Empty Tomb And The Men In White

Mark, which was the first gospel to be written, describes the incident in chapter 16:

Is it reasonable to accept this as evidence that Jesus rose from the dead? Let's see.

Jesus was the T B Joshua of his time. He came from a humble background, was loved by the masses because of his miracle ministry, and was hated by the religious establishment which didn't accept him as a true man of God and felt that his teachings were unscriptural.

Now lets imagine that T. B Joshua died, and then 3 days later the 3 women who were closest to him when he was alive in his ministry came to you with this story: That they went to T B Joshua's grave to pray and lay flowers, but when they got there, they saw that the grave had been opened, the body missing and a young guy in a white suit was sitting there. And the guy told them that T B Joshua had risen from the dead.

Would it be reasonable to believe that T B Joshua had risen from the dead on the basis of this testimony? Wouldn't you be suspicious that T B Joshua's body had been stolen by his top pastors to make it appear that he had risen? That the man in white was just an accomplice of the thieves? That maybe the women were hallucinating due to their grief, or simply lying to hype their hero and crush?

Your OP seems to be based on ONLY biblical evidence for the resurrection. In that case, your context is skewed. The Biblical narration of the resurrection was not primarily written to convince UNBELIEVERS, it was written to believers. No much wonder that believers believe it, fulfilling its purpose. On Jesus and TB, that is a huge miss, they do not compare in any form or sphere. TB is controversial, well so are many entertainers. TB is sometimes unconventional, but not in the Christlike sense. TB's miracle ministry is suspect by many, Jesus miracle ministry was a major headache to His antagonists and clear to all. So also were His teachings and prophecy.
Do not just imagine that TB died. Also get in the fact that Jesus had been drumming it into everyone's ears clearly that He would die and would RISE AGAIN on the third day. Soldiers were at the grave of Jesus and the place was blocked with a huge stone and sealed by the governor. Also, the women went to the disciples, not to unbelievers/sinners. The disciples were said to have gone to the grave and CONFIRMED what they were told. Jesus later went on to appear to these same disciples confirming what the women had said to them.

Luke's Gospel, written about 10 years later, describes the same incident thus:

Notice how the story has been altered to solve the issues with the first one, and spiced up?

Imagine if, in the hypothetical case of TB Joshua's alleged resurrection, the women who told you about his empty grave came back 10 years later to tell the same story. But this time, instead of a young man in a white suit who was sitting by the grave when they arrived, they claim that there was no one at T B joshua's grave initially and then suddenly, two men in glowing suits as bright as the sun (implying angels) appeared before them and gave them a scriptural lesson. Would those changes make the story more believable to you, or less so?

This is not unsual, that is the number discrepancy. The main message and point is not lost or altered. That is the fact that Christ resurrected, they were informed of this at the empty grave, and went to tell His disciples. Note that the account was penned down by two different people. Even in cases of same person, we do not tell a story/event the same way after a while. Not because we want to deceive or distort, that is just human nature for you. The gospel accounts were written decades after the event. i cannot even give such accuracy of detail about things that happened before my eyes last year, so what? Does that mean it did not happen, of course not.

2. Appearing To His Closest Followers

According to Mark's Gospel,

In short, Jesus' closest followers claimed that he appeared to them at various times after his body went missing. Jesus closest followers had everything to lose by his death, and everything to gain by getting people to believe the resurrection story. They had sold all their posessions and left their families and professions to join Jesus' ministry. With his death, that ministry was finished, but the ressurection story brought it back to life. Knowing about this serious conflict of interest, it reasonable to accept their testimony as evidence that the resurrection actually happened?

If TB Joshua died and the top pastors in his church said he appeared to them, would you believe it for one moment?

The Bible does not say that the disciples had sold all their possessions. Yes they made a lot of consecration, and they were very depressed and demoralised as it is clearly written. It takes a lot of smartness, toughness, cunning, and deceit for them to bring up a genius idea of the resurrection. The resurrection BTW was something well known to all that heard Jesus, including the rulers of the Jews. It wasn't an Einstein idea Matthew drummed up during mourning. Also, the disciples were good people, people who preached and lived integrity, holiness, truth, honesty. People who wrote about their own shortcomings. They are not the kind of people that would come up with such a lie. Not by class, not by character. At least, there are things that if they tell me that Seun did, i should be able to say it is possible or say impossible. We all know the life of the disciples and their Christlike teachings even more.

3. His Appearance To 500 Believers

According to 1 Corinthians 15:6,

This would seem like the least weak evidence for the resurrection, due to the sheer number of potential witnesses, until you start to wonder why none of the Gospels mentioned it. Not even imaginative Luke of the robes as white as lightening. Why would all the Gospel writers have choosen to leave out what would have been their strongest evidence? 500 witnesses! Because it didn't happen? Because it was too early to tell such a big lie and get away with it? I don't know.

And even if we want to at issume that it happened, we must not forget that it would be quite easy for any illusionist to stage the appearance of Jesus to people who strongly want to believe that he is still alive. Benny Hinn tells a story about Jesus appearing during one of his crusades, and people believe it.

Again, Jesus told all His disciples to meet Him in Galilee, where it is believed that He ascended before them. This is believed to be the time when around 500 people were there. Nothing strange in this.

Conclusion:
The evidence for the resurrection of Jesus is a bunch of testimonies attributed to people who had every reason to lie during a period when people were far more superstitious and gullible than we are today because they didn't have science. It's not sufficient to convince an objective modern person that a 3 day old corpse whose brain and heart would have decayed considerably actually came back to life, held meetings in person with various people, and then ascended into outer space. Or ... What do you think?

People do not have reasons to lie that dead people are alive. i have never in my life met any such person. How many such person have you met, Seun? On what faith do you believe that people have EVERY reason to lie that a dead person is not dead? They went everywhere saying it. From Jerusalem to Judea to Samaria and other parts of the world. Nobody could dispute it. They were imprisoned and killed, and nobody came to confess or contradict the so called well planned lie. And these peasant men's lies is believed for over 2016 years by people of all ages, race and calibre? Oh common, think, are you not supposed to be the thinkers here?

dalaman:


The problem is that you guys ASSUME that the stories were written by an eye witness. Remember these stories were written at least 40 -70 years after the alleged event by christians who were telling stories about Jesus to promote the newly founded religion. These guys were just writing fiction that is why the gospel account concerning the resurrection kept changing and being embellished. The first gospel said the women saw man, the next gospel written 10 years after the second one said they saw two men buy the time you get to the last gospel written like 30 years after the first they ladies saw two angels. The writers of the gospel were us writing their stories for people to believe and follow their new religion. They weren't writing down actually historical events. The gospels were written way to long after thee supposed event happened to carry any true meaning.

Nonsense! The bible is inspired of God.....have u seen how it accurately predicted world events long before they happened?
Take the fall of Babylon for example. The bible predicted That king Cyrus would be the one to capture Babylon. Also, the bible foretold that no one would ever inhabit the land of Babylon after it's destruction.
What do we see today? About 60miles south of Baghdad, the land of Babylon lays in total ruins. Not a soul lives there....so never u again say the bible is a mere fiction. That a laughable insinuation!






Forgive my errors in typing, if any.

I hope u get my point. PEACE.

Wow! Cant Believe I Am Just Coming Across This Thread Now. My Own 2cents; To The Christians On Here: If Lets All Agree That Jesus Rose, Lest Not Forget That When He Allegedy Later Saw Thomas And He Showed Him The Holes In His Hands From The Crucification We Were Told That Thomas Hand Went Right Through Jesus's And Then It Was Mentioned That Jesus Could "walk through walls", which brings about my question; why was the tomb stone rolled all just to prove the point that jesus was no longer in there, couldnt he just walked right through the tomb stone, and how was he able to dine? Cc Seun.

SirDavico:


Nonsense! The bible is inspired of God.....have u seen how it accurately predicted world events long before they happened?
Take the fall of Babylon for example. The bible predicted That king Cyrus would be the one to capture Babylon. Also, the bible foretold that no one would ever inhabit the land of Babylon after it's destruction.
What do we see today? About 60miles south of Baghdad, the land of Babylon lays in total ruins. Not a soul lives there....so never u again say the bible is a mere fiction. That a laughable insinuation!






Forgive my errors in typing, if any.

I hope u get my point. PEACE.

You Know What Inspiration Means Right? I Hope You Know You Just Supported His Statement?! Peace.

bolt000:
You Know What Inspiration Means Right? I Hope You Know You Just Supported His Statement?! Peace.

Inspiration means different things to different people

SirDavico:

Inspiration means different things to different people

Please I Would Like To Know Your Own Definition?

SirDavico:


Nonsense! The bible is inspired of God.....have u seen how it accurately predicted world events long before they happened?
Take the fall of Babylon for example. The bible predicted That king Cyrus would be the one to capture Babylon. Also, the bible foretold that no one would ever inhabit the land of Babylon after it's destruction.
What do we see today? About 60miles south of Baghdad, the land of Babylon lays in total ruins. Not a soul lives there....so never u again say the bible is a mere fiction. That a laughable insinuation!






Forgive my errors in typing, if any.

I hope u get my point. PEACE.

That passage about Cyrus was written long after it happened. It's very easy to predict things accurately after they have happened already.

dalaman:


That passage about Cyrus was written long after it happened. It's very easy to predict things accurately after they have happened already.

Pls what's ur proof it was written after it happened? Be precise.

bolt000:
Please I Would Like To Know Your Own Definition?

Controlled by a force beyond your understanding

In this case, the holy spirit.

SirDavico:




Controlled by a force beyond your understanding

In this case, the holy spirit.

Lol.. Please Stop Contradicting Yourself And Just Agree That He Had A Well Justified Arguement. Like He Said The Bible Might Be A Story. You Only Went Ahead To Give Him Support That The Inspiration Behind The Made Up Story Is "The Holy Spirit" Lol.. You Are Funny.

bolt000:
Lol.. Please Stop Contradicting Yourself And Just Agree That He Had A Well Justified Arguement. Like He Said The Bible Might Be A Story. You Only Went Ahead To Give Him Support That The Inspiration Behind The Made Up Story Is "The Holy Spirit" Lol.. You Are Funny.

Am I funny?? I don't think so signor....
If u don't believe in the divinity of the bible...fine!

Scholar8200:
Inspiration is not the endowment of man with omniscience. It is God through man inspite of the frailty and infirmities of the latter. Hence details left off by Mark is supplied by Matthew etc in agreement with the One Body perspective in the NT.

And were the disciples persecuted for a fiction? Martyred for spreading a fiction? And myriads of people have believed and are still believing this 'Fiction' and they are being gloriously transformed even at present? Finding its promises continually and blessedly true (now you and your ilks may blaspheme to lowest hell but it changes nothing of what I know here!!!)

Well stay high up in the tower your ''higher knowledge'' places you, Blessed be the 'Fiction that revealed Jesus to me, was and is still being attested to as the only Book that transforms instantaneously!

I'd rather remain in this despised place with this Blessed 'Fiction' than be confered a high and dry, ego-feeding but soul damning, grandiloquent but empty tower of vain superiority!

More emotional outburst over nothing . The stories of Jesus discipline being killed for their beliefs came much later by the founding fathers in order to strengthen the faith of the believers. Even at that many people still kill themselves and get themselves killed over lies and fiction. All these ISIS militants and muslim terrorist that kill themselves or get themselves killed and martyred are doing it over what? Are they doing it over the truth?