DISCLAIMER: This post is about the fears I (Hopefullandlord) faced, I'm not saying such fears are what's keeping people theists but if you're a theist and the shoe fits, please wear it

This is not a thread about HOW I became atheist; NO, its about the fears I had during my journey

Atheism is something I actually became for a long before finally embracing it, this was long before I even knew what the word "atheism" means, so if there had never been an atheist before me, I would have been the first one

Part of the reasons it took so long for me was FEAR, not having anyone around me to guide me on that path made me stick with theism for a long time

Lets examine those fears that kept me theist

1 fear of failing in life due to lack of belief in god

stories were told in churches, at house fellowship, at home, at school, at almost everywhere imaginable about people failing in businesses, academics, sports, marriage, health and other walks of life, and they kept failing until they met Jesus; after meeting Jesus, successes in their businesses, health, marriage, academics followed automatically; these stories usually sounds very spellbinding and are usually followed with the popular bible verse

Matthew 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Mount Zion films also cemented this kind of fear, their films show all you need is Jesus

Hey bro, you don't have any hand? No legs? You can still become a Ronaldo Delima if you believe

Hey bro, you don't have a job? You can have a brand new car, a mansion and huge pile of hard bills in the next one minute if you believe

I know I exaggerated in the two examples above but consider stories of a someone driving from Ore to Lagos on empty tank; someone reparking a Car that had no engine (that story was all over Facebook)

our mathematics teacher who is one such born again was actually the most hungry looking out of all our teachers told us a story about a boy who didn't joke with his spiritual life, this boy according to him kept praying, fasting and attending fellowships; this actually took a toll on him when examination came as he was too busy facing spiritual life rather than reading; when results of the examination was out, he had the best result; naturally, we (the students or should I say audience) didn't believe this story at that point but our math teacher wasn't done, he said that boy passed because an angel appeared to him in the examination hall with answers, stood in front of him and told him to write those answers, no one could see the angel except this prayerful boy; we all believed the story ( secondary school brain)

To someone that's used to hearing stories like these almost every month since birth, the message is very clear Jesus provides everything Ask anything with faith and you have it

Such a fear was the easiest to overcome out of all my fears (it wasn't "easy" though)

How I Overcame that fear

I overcame that fear by keen observation, looking at the fact that the man or woman that prays the most is usually one of the poorest around

"Born again" students fail while a doubter like me succeed with flying colours; I then started to wonder where that "examination Hall angel" was when those prayerful students were failing

Seeing believers fail academically and me succeed actually made me realise that no matter the level of prayer you pray, you need to read, no angel would appear to you AND if you don't pray at all but read very well, you would definitely pass with flying colours

This fear was conquered early on in my life which enabled me embrace atheism faster, do you know why?

This is where it gets interesting

As you grow older, such fears transform from something you have much more control over; eg academics which involves studying, seriousness and reading; basically everything is in your hands, hence easy to debunk the "examination hall angel" logic since all power belongs to YOU and YOU alone TO things that you have much lesser control over; e.g Businesses which depends on a lot of luck; once you become an adult with those fears, it would be very hard to shake off, it becomes a part of you, you start thinking you can NEVER succeed in anything without Jesus

2nd fear is fear of witches, wizards, principalities, powers, spiritual attacks from extended families e.t.c

This was very hard for me to shake, growing up in Nigeria and hearing all sorts of stories about jazz being used on people kept me theist for many years too

Stories of people being freed from nightmares and impending death by mentioning the name of Jesus, stories in "fire in the word" by MFM (I read this bulletin every week, it was 10 naira back then)

Many tales of witchcraft attacks, tales about people using the name of Jesus to overcome those "attacks"

There was even a story of ritual killers transporting a woman to the kill location, this woman then kept shouting the name of Jesus in the bus being used to transport her, this name started causing commotion among the kidnappers and they told her to shut up, she however kept shouting the name until one of the kidnappers had to shut her mouth with a duct tape, she then used her hand to write "Jesus" on the floor of the bus, commotion resumed among the kidnappers and they had to stop the bus to let her leave

Stories of people that are born again being rejected by our local gods from being used as sacrifice while an unbeliever was accepted and sacrificed to the gods instead

Stories of extended families using jazz to bring family members back from abroad

Stories of love potions

Stories of relatives using spiritual means to keep their family members from succeeding in life

Stories of destinies being padlocked and thrown in the wilderness

Stories of grandmothers preventing their grandchildren from succeeding through spiritual means

Every Sunday, you're told these stories or their spinoffs

These stories were being reiterated by Christian movies and even secular movies are not left out

How I overcame that fear

The "grandmother" one made me start to question everything, my grandmother would prevent me from succeeding? Pure hogwash


Little by little, I started questioning each one

Witchcraft; that was the second one, there was this girl that people call a witch in school, she was feared by all and tales abound, like co students falling sick after having issues with her, even a particular girl died because of that; one day, I had a disagreement with her, she slapped me and I beat the holy crhap out of her, I beat her knowing I'm dying anyways, all through the rest of that school day, I was looked upon with pity by fellow students, most of them believing they'll never see me again, well I guess you know if I survived or not, right?

Your businesses and work fail because of anything but spiritual; I'm yet to see a business that keeps proper books fail without knowing the reason for the failure; t worst they fail due to bad luck

As I grew up, that fear got smaller and smaller; I looked at the huge level of curses being directed at bosses in Nigeria, its a surprise such bosses didn't fall down and die; how could Babangida kill so many people and none of them think it worthy to use "spiritual means" to eliminate him? Those Indians that are known to exploit us, they are stil going strong

Why can't that "spiritual means" be used to kill Boko Haram? Why is anybody even living since we should've all killed ourselves through those means since there would be someone somewhere who "deserves" those means

That was tough to overcome but I did anyways

3 Fear of what my family members might think

Hopefullandlord, What would your mother say? How would she feel? Your father? Have you thought about that? These words kept ringing in my brain

This was not really a "fear" thing but just a case of being in limbo out of respect, my parents take spiritual matters very seriously

This I overcame but I won't go into details because its more of a personal thing, what rocks my boat may sink yours

4 Fear of Yahweh himself, Hell fire and all

This fear was the hardest, hell fire, I'm burning for eternity

No one to save me, me and the devil who would torture me forever

Movies, books, Christian magazines, bible, everything points to hell one way or another

Here's the thing A visceral fear of something doesn't disappear automatically when you reason that the thing in question doesn't exist. You can still be scared of ghosts late at night just because it's late at night, even though you can clearly reason during a sunny afternoon that spirits are nonsense. Reason unfortunately doesn't override emotion just like that. It took time, fear of hell still remained for a long long time;

early morning preachers use hell fire as theme; you hear of hell almost everywhere
it kept cemented in my head and it was the HARDEST fear to overcome

But I overcame by realising all Muslims are hellbound; no matter how good they lived their lives, I started thinking about the good Muslims around, I then determined that hell is the place for me, let me point out that I don't believe in hell but indoctrination can be an almost impossible thing to overcome

So I started joking Elvis Presley, Fela and most of the popular people are going to hell, I won't be the only one there to be burning forever

Once I overcame this fear, I realised the absurdity of hell fire, it doesn't make ANY sense

Nothing I can do in this life warrants eternal torture

Even if I kill everyone in the world, I still don't think it warrants eternal torture let alone going to hell because of a lack of belief

Here's the thing; fear of Hell is an accident of your birth and not an indication of reality. Your parents/people around you taught you to fear Hell because they fear Hell. If you had been born to Hindus you would have been raised to believe in reincarnation. If you had been born a Viking you would have been taught that the only way to get into Heaven was to cross a rainbow bridge after dying gloriously in battle.

And BTW

Which hell?

Christian hell?

Muslim hell?

Hades?

Little by little, all these fears disappeared and I started taking full responsibility for my life, there's no witch that would prevent my success and I am succeeding


There you have it; all the fears that gave Christianity "life support" in my life for a long time


Thanks for the read

I voiced my unbelief in gods yesterday on facebook for the first time. By this morning I've been ostracized. It makes me laugh. I've reached a point anything that calls itself god must come out and have a face to face meeting with me first before I believe in it.

You are not alone in the fears you listed. I have such fears too but in those very fears resides the absurdity of it all.

I particularly like the part about good people, no matter how good they are, they must still go to hell for not calling on the name of Jesus. That's the beginning of the joke called religion.

Thanks for the write up.

Wooowww!!!!!!

Same fears I overcame


Nice post

''following''

Hypatia of Alexandria once said

"Myth should be taught as myth, fable as fable and mircales as poetic fantasies.
To teach superstition as truth is horrifying, the mind of a child accepts them and only through great pain and perhaps tragedy will he be freed of it."

she was brutalized, raped and her skin frayed before being killed by a Christian mob and parishoners of Cyril...

Cyril is a saint today.

It takes great pain to relieve one's self of the things you have been taught, beaten and coerced to accept as truth all your life.

It was a beautiful journey, illuminating but the way is cold, lonely and many atimes dangerous because people would aggressively attack any idea that contradicts their conventional views.

Leading an unconventional way like irreligiosity or disbelief entirely in deities can be a very long and lonely trek, painful and depressing but once you are at the bank of the stream so much relief, happiness and freedom comes after.

Dispelling these myths and superstitions is not as a result of rebellion or animosity rather should be grounded out of respect for human intellect.

oglalasioux:
I voiced my unbelief in gods yesterday on facebook for the first time. By this morning I've been ostracized. It makes me laugh. I've reached a point anything that calls itself god must come out and have a face to face meeting with me first before I believe in it.

You are not alone in the fears you listed. I have such fears too but in those very fears resides the absurdity of it all.

I particularly like the part about good people, no matter how good they are, they must still go to hell for not calling on the name of Jesus. That's the beginning of the joke called religion.

Thanks for the write up.

@bold Called Christian religion...

Religion does not start and end with Abrahamism. . there are far older, better and more profound religions out there.

Religion is not entirely a bad thing like every other human institute - it merely has been abused and misused.

OP I don't believe in religion but I believe in a God. different cultures and religions have defined God as best as they could.

there must be a designer, life can't just come out of nothing. that's no realistic sense to me.

now if you are going to ask who made God I'll tell you I don't know. I don't care. why do I need to bother on something beyond my knowledge.

I'll just live my life a good way and wait for death. am ready any day any time, because that's part of life.

maybe when we die we understand better. generations have come, generations will come. same question will bother them.

the fact that we don't have the capability to comprehend life makes God a fact. A knowledge greater than our knowledge. that is God.

so just live your life, but as long as you can't comprehend, acknowledge that as God(knowledge unknown).

Well, what more can l say? Good for you and congrats on your atheism.

johnydon22:


@bold Called Christian religion...

Religion does not start and end with Abrahamism. . there are far older, better and more profound religions out there.

Religion is not entirely a bad thing like every other human institute - it merely has been abused and misused.

true. meant to control people. because naturally men are barbaric. religion breeds an orderly environment so little ones can learn. but it has been abused and turned to jokes.

Owliver:
OP I don't believe in religion but I believe in a God. different cultures and religions have defined God as best as they could.

there must be a designer, life can't just come out of nothing. that's no realistic sense to me.

No sir there musn't be because if that is a "Must" then a conscious intelligent God must also require another designer.

now if you are going to ask who made God I'll tell you I don't know. I don't care. why do I need to bother on something beyond my knowledge.

Employ this to the world, instead of assume God or any other superstition over universal causality simply say You don't know.

why employ such special pleadings only for God, we all know honestly you don't know how anything start but just had to assume God but refused to stretch your assumptions of questions regarding God.

isn't that dishonesty?

I'll just live my life a good way and wait for death. am ready any day any time, because that's part of life.

You should just live your life for now, waiting for death is a miserable way to live

maybe when we die we understand better. generations have come, generations will come. same question will bother them.

we know much more than our ancestors did, coming generations will know far more than we do now

the fact that we don't have the capability to comprehend life makes God a fact. A knowledge greater than our knowledge. that is God.

This is a lie, using God as a place holder for ignorance is a pathetic argument. . That we cannot comprehend life means we cannot comprehend life.

Ignorance is evidence of ignorance not god, if that is how you want to play this card then you'd make 'God' totally useless the more we find out and get to know things.

Invoking God cus of ignorance has always turned out as a little whif of discovery murders God at different level chasing it further above to the next level of scientific ignorance.

You may find places to invoke God(s) but if you can only do that on places shielded by scientitic ignorance then God will always remain and ever receding pocket of ignorance.

so just live your life, but as long as you can't comprehend, acknowledge that as God(knowledge unknown).

Then God is no more than human ignorance personified and not an entity - this fits the very notion of imaginary.

johnydon22:
No sir there musn't be because if that is a "Must" then a conscious intelligent God must also require another designer.



Employ this to the world, instead of assume God or any other superstition over universal causality simply say You don't know.

why employ such special pleadings only for God, we all know honestly you don't know how anything start but just had to assume God but refused to stretch your assumptions of questions regarding God.

isn't that dishonesty?



You should just live your life for now, waiting for death is a miserable way to live



we know much more than our ancestors did, coming generations will know far more than we do now



This is a lie, using God as a place holder for ignorance is a pathetic argument. . That we cannot comprehend life means we cannot comprehend life.

Ignorance is evidence of ignorance not god, if that is how you want to play this card then you'd make 'God' totally useless the more we find out and get to know things.

Invoking God cus of ignorance has always turned out as a little whif of discovery murders God at different level chasing it further above to the next level of scientific ignorance.

You may find places to invoke God(s) but if you can only do that on places shielded by scientitic ignorance then God will always remain and ever receding pocket of ignorance.



Then God is no more than human ignorance personified and not an entity - this fits the very notion of imaginary.

Saying God is responsible for something, does not necessarily mean that he did it by magic, hence l wonder why you feel scientific discoveries eliminate God from the picture. Science could be a way of understanding God afterall via his works.

johnydon22:
No sir there musn't be because if that is a "Must" then a conscious intelligent God must also require another designer.



Employ this to the world, instead of assume God or any other superstition over universal causality simply say You don't know.

why employ such special pleadings only for God, we all know honestly you don't know how anything start but just had to assume God but refused to stretch your assumptions of questions regarding God.

isn't that dishonesty?



You should just live your life for now, waiting for death is a miserable way to live



we know much more than our ancestors did, coming generations will know far more than we do now



This is a lie, using God as a place holder for ignorance is a pathetic argument. . That we cannot comprehend life means we cannot comprehend life.

Ignorance is evidence of ignorance not god, if that is how you want to play this card then you'd make 'God' totally useless the more we find out and get to know things.

Invoking God cus of ignorance has always turned out as a little whif of discovery murders God at different level chasing it further above to the next level of scientific ignorance.

You may find places to invoke God(s) but if you can only do that on places shielded by scientitic ignorance then God will always remain and ever receding pocket of ignorance.



Then God is no more than human ignorance personified and not an entity - this fits the very notion of imaginary.

I have seen your posts many times. it's like you think you can explain everything. all the time.

I have nothing much to say. I know perfectly why you are behaving so. makes me laugh because I cab explain your condition perfectly but I have no such time.

think not yourself wiser, for no man can be wiser than God(i don't know what's it is).

like I said, the fact that we don't know makes it a God(whatever name you want to call it) I call it knowledge unknown.

about the death part am not surprised, humans and pride. very explainable also. I used to think you were smarter. lol

Owliver:
true. meant to control people. because naturally men are barbaric. religion breeds an orderly environment so little ones can learn. but it has been abused and turned to jokes.

There are two derived societal means of ensuring order and comformity to societal guide lines.

Politics [Human rule and order ] and religion [Makes humans subject to divine rule]...

So basically religion is still politics with an assumption of divine authority. . . Both has been abused and at many times turns out to be quite sinister and oppressing to the masses.

Humans basically must have to grow past the influence of these two, there are many other intuitive basis we can derive our societal behaviours from independent of these two concepts.

Like Compassion, pity, sympathy, love, family, concern for others. . and these are actually innate values.

if we ignore these values and look towards only external coercion [religion/politics] to ensure ethical behaviours then man is not as intelligent as he thinks himself.

there are many of us who learnt to live beyond the strings of these institutions but there are many who cannot live unless under such leash and to that i believe religion is necessary.

kilo4sure:

Saying God is responsible for something, does not necessarily mean that he did it by magic, hence l wonder why you feel scientific discoveries eliminate God from the picture. Science could be a way of understanding God afterall via his works.

thank you for answering him.

every religion has explained God in their own ways even science. there's always similarities among these explanations. but not a single conclusion.

as long as no one can prove it(probably never will) it will stay unknown. That unknown knowledge is what I call God(knowledge unknown)... how is that hard for that man to understand that simple definition of God lol

Owliver:
I have seen your posts many times. it's like you think you can explain everything. all the time.

I have nothing much to say. I know perfectly why you are behaving so. makes me laugh because I cab explain your condition perfectly but I have no such time.

think not yourself wiser, for no man can be wiser than God(i don't know what's it is).

like I said, the fact that we don't know makes it a God(whatever name you want to call it) I call it knowledge unknown.

about the death part am not surprised, humans and pride. very explainable also. I used to think you were smarter. lol

this is in no way a good argument.

Nice post, you try
I have lived both in Europe and Africa. During my time in Europe, I became exposed to a whole lot of things that I nearly started a journey of atheism just like you , but white christians helped me not to make that journey, I saw Christianity in another perspective not like the way we African see it, totally differently. Your fear were African like mentality. The European brought religion to Africa and same Europe is going extinct in religion, atheism has spread like fire, and same thing is happening in Africa but gradually
Every body is entitled to their opinion if there is a God or not. I strongly believe there is a God, and whether any one chooses to believe it or not does not change anything, just like people who argue whether to believe in ghost or not. I don't know your views on ghost existence.
I have encountered a whole lot of people with different religion, I have sat down and had extensive discussion, I am an open minded person with a critical mind. One thing I have learnt irrespective of your religion, lf do not live you life right you would burn in hell, if you are an atheist or a religious person and u don't live your life right, you would surely burn in hell.
But As for me and my house we have chosen to serve the Lord
Shalom

johnydon22:


this is in no way a good argument.

I never intended to argue.

am just disappointed in you cos I expected you'd be wiser. I never knew your just a regular man trying hard to argue your way to convince yourself there's no God. lol.

I guess that gives you variable comfort which of cos you'll have to fill up all when emptiness(doubt and fear) crops in.

stop fighting God. you will never win. nobody has ever win. for how long will you service your fear(generations have gone through this)..... whether you like it or not there's a question the world can't answer and that's the question of God.

time for you to move on. Just an advice.

kilo4sure:

Saying God is responsible for something, does not necessarily mean that he did it by magic, hence l wonder why you feel scientific discoveries eliminate God from the picture. Science could be a way of understanding God afterall via his works.

As usual the misconception keeps coming - the argument i answered was "God of the gap". if you don't know this then god did it.

that was the argument and it has always being shown to be weak and baseless.

if you don't know this, it means you don't and that's all. . . Simply be humble enough to agree you don't and not nickname your ignorance "God".

Ptolemy a greek natural philosopher after observing planetry movement onced said

"As i observe for my own pleasure the to and fro movement of the planets, i no longer stand on the earth with my two feet but on the presence of zeus himself."

Ptolemy didn't know the mechanism behind the planetary motions, he invoked God(zeus) as an explanation.

Centuries later Newton using Keplers work as a foundation solved the problem Ptolemy answered with God and thus Ptolemy's God became irrelevant and unneeded.

Newton again like Ptolemy came to the limits of his knowledge, solar stability and he again put God into the answer.

Leplace came along and solved the problem of stability with his pertubation equation and thus the God newton invoked fell of the equation. when asked where God fit in the picture Leplace answered "i have no need of that hypothesis".

If you use "God" to fill a gap left by your ignorance, this doesn't answer the question but rather postponds it and if you or someone else however somehow gets the actual answer, your initial answer of 'God' falls apart.

that has been the plight of 'God of the gap argument' simply accept ignorance when you are faced with one and don't make your ignorance evidence of your assumptions - it simply does not work.

Owliver:
I never intended to argue.

then stop making personal remarks and address the points raised.

am just disappointed in you cos I expected you'd be wiser. I never knew your just a regular man trying hard to argue your way to convince yourself there's no God. lol.

this is another personal remark and another nonsensical assumption. . . I am not convincing myself there is no God, i am totally fine if there is one. I am only refuting the basis for your invocation of the concept of God.

stop reading with emotions.

I guess that gives you variable comfort which of cos you'll have to fill up all when emptiness(doubt and fear) crops in.

again addressing the person and not the points and making assumptions.

stop fighting God. you will never win. nobody has ever win. for how long will you service your fear(generations have gone through this)..... whether you like it or not there's a question the world can't answer and that's the question of God.

time for you to move on. Just an advice.

After all said and done, not one point just still personal remarks and nevee addressing or raising any point to support your position.

Why not remove your emotions from enquiry, discuss objectively and see the world clearer..

when someone disagrees with you, refute their points and not start referring to them and better still make assumptions about them..

that's a very pathetic method brother... i for one will not reply another post with personal remarks and assumption on my person instead of addressing the points

it is because of your offended ego over someone disagreeing with your points that you couldn't read clearer and understand the points made, if not you could have noticed this

You may find places to invoke God(s) but if you can only do that on places
shielded by scientitic ignorance then God will always remain an ever
receding pocket of ignorance.

kingdenny:
Nice post, you try
I have lived both in Europe and Africa. During my time in Europe, I became exposed to a whole lot of things that I nearly started a journey of atheism just like you , but white christians helped me not to make that journey, I saw Christianity in another perspective not like the way we African see it, totally differently. Your fear were African like mentality. The European brought religion to Africa and same Europe is going extinct in religion, atheism has spread like fire, and same thing is happening in Africa but gradually
Every body is entitled to their opinion if there is a God or not. I strongly believe there is a God, and whether any one chooses to believe it or not does not change anything, just like people who argue whether to believe in ghost or not. I don't know your views on ghost existence.
I have encountered a whole lot of people with different religion, I have sat down and had extensive discussion, I am an open minded person with a critical mind. One thing I have learnt irrespective of your religion, lf do not live you life right you would burn in hell, if you are an atheist or a religious person and u don't live your life right, you would surely burn in hell.
But As for me and my house we have chosen to serve the Lord
Shalom

does it not defy logic. it is said that God loves us unconditionally but still creates hell fire just incase. now that's a condition. no one loves God even you. though you think you love him but you were psychologically bullied with fear(burning in hell)into "loving" him... that's absurd. I understand that all humans must attach meaning to life because it's the real deal. but I tell you. nothing is real in life. all is knowledge and perspective.

pride is the bane of every knowledgeable living beings.

all is vanity if you look at the brighter picture

johnydon22:


then stop making personal remarks and address the points raised.

this is another personal remark and another nonsensical assumption. . . I am not convincing myself there is no God, i am totally fine if there is one. I am only refuting the basis for your invocation of the concept of God.

stop reading with emotions.



again addressing the person and not the points and making assumptions.



After all said and done, not one point just still personal remarks and nevee addressing or raising any point to support your position.

Why not remove your emotions from enquiry, discuss objectively and see the world clearer..

when someone disagrees with you, refute their points and not start referring to them and better still make assumptions about them..

that's a very pathetic method brother.

Lolz. is it now a bad thing to make personal remarks?

am only trying to help you. I see you almost every thread. hustling to prove there's no God. and I feel sorry for you.

what will be your profit for all this stress? comfort and reassurance that yes you are right haha.

there's a better way my friend. stop arguing. and stop fighting God(whoever or whatever it is) you will never win.

I understand psychology a lot. so take my advice seriously.

johnydon22:


As usual the misconception keeps coming - the argument i answered was "God of the gap". if you don't know this then god did it.

that was the argument and it has always being shown to be weak and baseless.

if you don't know this, it means you don't and that's all. . . Simply be humble enough to agree you don't and not nickname your ignorance "God".

Ptolemy a greek natural philosopher after observing planetry movement onced said

"As i observe for my own pleasure the to and fro movement of the planets, i no longer stand on the earth with my two feet but on the presence of zeus himself."

Ptolemy didn't know the mechanism behind the planetary motions, he invoked God(zeus) as an explanation.

Centuries later Newton using Keplers work as a foundation solved the problem Ptolemy answered with God and thus Ptolemy's God became irrelevant and unneeded.

Newton again like Ptolemy came to the limits of his knowledge, solar stability and he again put God into the answer.

Leplace came along and solved the problem of stability with his pertubation equation and thus the God newton invoked fell of the equation. when asked where God fit in the picture Leplace answered "i have no need of that hypothesis".

If you use "God" to fill a gap left by your ignorance, this doesn't answer the question but rather postponds it and if you or someone else however somehow gets the actual answer, your initial answer of 'God' falls apart.

that has been the plight of 'God of the gap argument' simply accept ignorance when you are faced with one and don't make your ignorance evidence of your assumptions - it simply does not work.

I think you are the one misunderstanding me here, l never said we should name our ignorance God like Newton or Ptolemy did, but rather the discoveries we make in science and even the one made by Laplace help us understand God and his works, l mean God's works may not be magical at all like Ptolemy expected it to be but may all follow the due and logical process in his infinite wisdom, hence the supernatural may be the natural that yet defies logic or simply too complex to fathom for now.
So our many discoveries exalt God rather than rule out God from the picture. The quest for knowledge via science and the understanding of how everything works may eventually teach us the purpose behind life itself and help us understand the mind of God.

Owliver:
Lolz. is it now a bad thing to make personal remarks?

making personal remarks instead of discussing the points of a discussion means you no longer have another point to tender and resort to straw man fallcies and more so digresses.

am only trying to help you. I see you almost every thread. hustling to prove there's no God. and I feel sorry for you.

Second lie - if you have been noticing me like you claim you would have noticed i'm rarely active here of recent neither do i feel the need to engage in long arguments anymore.

You still have no argument sir.

what will be your profit for all this stress? comfort and reassurance that yes you are right haha.

I don't know why you feel threatened by the arguments

there's a better way my friend. stop arguing. and stop fighting God(whoever or whatever it is) you will never win.

still no point - you could have simply pleaded i don't refute your points and i'd understand.

I understand psychology a lot. so take my advice seriously.

Hhmmm a lot of fantasies and pride you live with, i have maintained my cool even with all your personal attacks on my person.

Psychology should teach you how to discuss points objectively and not attack the others personality when you no longer have an argument.

I take ad hominems and straw man as a sign of defeat but unwillingness to concede.

kilo4sure:

I think you are the one misunderstanding me here, l never said we should name our ignorance God like Newton or Ptolemy did, but rather the discoveries we make in science and even the one made by Laplace help us understand God and his works, l mean God's works may not be magical at all like Ptolemy expected it to be but may all follow the due and logical process in his infinite wisdom, hence the supernatural may be the natural that yet defies logic or simply too complex to fathom for now.
So our many discoveries exalt God rather than rule out God from the picture. The quest for knowledge via science and the understanding of how everything works may eventually teach us the purpose behind life itself and help us understand the mind of God.

Oh very good thoughts but first to assume God there must be a ground and since we have never and i doubt if we can empirically ascertain the actuality of deities - i see no reason we should assume one or attribute the mechanisms of natural manifestation to such assumptions.

Nice thread


I think every atheist (excluding may be those who were born into it )
Must have gone through at least 2 of these at one point in their journey

I was irreligious for more than 5 years but still believe there is god out of fear cos of the stories I have heard about people who don't believe In god..


Now, I'm over hardcore atheist. outspoken one at that.

Facebook, family, friends, girlfriends. Everyone knows I'm an atheist.
You don't like it, kill yaself

Owliver:
Lolz. is it now a bad thing to make personal remarks?

am only trying to help you. I see you almost every thread. hustling to prove there's no God. and I feel sorry for you.

what will be your profit for all this stress? comfort and reassurance that yes you are right haha.

there's a better way my friend. stop arguing. and stop fighting God(whoever or whatever it is) you will never win.

I understand psychology a lot. so take my advice seriously.

A certain degree of emotional stability is required to face issues without personal attacks. You clearly lack it.

Owliver:
OP I don't believe in religion but I believe in a God. different cultures and religions have defined God as best as they could.

there must be a designer, life can't just come out of nothing. that's no realistic sense to me.

now if you are going to ask who made God I'll tell you I don't know. I don't care. why do I need to bother on something beyond my knowledge.

I'll just live my life a good way and wait for death. am ready any day any time, because that's part of life.

maybe when we die we understand better. generations have come, generations will come. same question will bother them.

the fact that we don't have the capability to comprehend life makes God a fact. A knowledge greater than our knowledge. that is God.

so just live your life, but as long as you can't comprehend, acknowledge that as God(knowledge unknown).

Bro, I gbadun your philosophy.

johnydon22:
making personal remarks instead of discussing the points of a discussion means you no longer have another point to tender and resort to straw man fallcies and more so digresses.

Second lie - if you have been noticing me like you claim you would have noticed i'm rarely active here of recent neither do i feel the need to engage in long arguments anymore.

You still have no argument sir.



I don't know why you feel threatened by the arguments



still no point - you could have simply pleaded i don't refute your points and i'd understand.



Hhmmm a lot of fantasies and pride you live with, i have maintained my cool even with all your personal attacks on my person.

Psychology should teach you how to discuss points objectively and not attack the others personality when you no longer have an argument.

I take ad hominems and straw man as a sign of defeat but unwillingness to concede.

Looolz. you should know knowledge is relative. for instance to a mad man sane people are the mad people. it's all about perspective but there's a more tender way to convince people not by arguing.

if you say you refuted my points yes to you it's been refuted but to me? Lolz no impact. that's relativity. that's why I say you are only feeding yourself with reassurance that there's no God which isn't necessary. that's why you are calling me out to argue so you'll win. but sorry am not religious neither do I believe in religious definition of God

besides what will I gain by lying about seeing you hustling to disapprove religion and God? comon you and I know that's true.

anyways, nice to meet you

MutantMetahuman:
Nice thread


I think every atheist (excluding may be those who were born into it )
Must have gone through at least 2 of these at one point in their journey

I was irreligious for more than 5 years but still believe there is god out of fear cos of the stories I have heard about people who don't believe In god..


Now, I'm over hardcore atheist. outspoken one at that.

Facebook, family, friends, girlfriends. Everyone knows I'm an atheist.
You don't like it, kill yaself

Hahahahahahaha you are a cold ass thug

Ranchhoddas:
A certain degree of emotional stability is required to face issues without personal attacks. You clearly lack it.

attacks? hmm I don't see it that way. I hope I didn't insult johnny. if I did I apologise.

I understand clearly how he thinks. he thrives on arguing. he always wants to win. well, am not into winning what will not put food in my stomach. naah it's waste of precious time.

I only took the easy way out. I used to argue like him those days trying to fill my self with "argument victories" about God or no God. but I understood that it never ends.

I don't know God but I tell you. if you don't let God be, if you argue God all the time. God will torment you. weather God is real or not. we are tormented not by reality but by the abundance of our heart.

am irreligious just in case you are getting ideas.

cheers.

Owliver:
l
I understand clearly how he thinks. he thrives on arguing. he always wants to win.

Another assumption, please stop assuming you know things about someone else when you don't...

You understand nothing about me, stop massaging your ego with fantasies.

when someone counters your point, you have choices to either discuss or ignore. . making remarks and assumption about that person makes you look pathetic and it is very demeaning.

johnydon22:
Another assumption, please stop assuming you know things about someone else when you don't...

You understand nothing about me, stop massaging your ego with fantasies.

when someone counters your point, you have choices to either discuss or ignore. . making remarks and assumption about that person makes you look pathetic and it is very demeaning.

you see? still talking about points. I was right after all. winning is good. but not all the time my friend.

oh and please my emotions are almost down to 0 just in case you feel the need to call me names.

let's call it over.