Owliver:
attacks? hmm I don't see it that way. I hope I didn't insult johnny. if I did I apologise.

I understand clearly how he thinks. he thrives on arguing. he always wants to win. well, am not into winning what will not put food in my stomach. naah it's waste of precious time.

I only took the easy way out. I used to argue like him those days trying to fill my self with "argument victories" about God or no God. but I understood that it never ends.

I don't know God but I tell you. if you don't let God be, if you argue God all the time. God will torment you. weather God is real or not. we are tormented not by reality but by the abundance of our heart.

am irreligious just in case you are getting ideas.

cheers.

You are now judging others by your own emotional standards. That the abundance of your heart tormented you does not mean it would torment others. For all you know he has being debating long before you. A person like Richard Dawkins has been debating the issue of God for a really long time; PROBABLY before you were born and he's still doing it. No torment anywhere.

johnydon22:


As usual the misconception keeps coming - the argument i answered was "God of the gap". if you don't know this then god did it.

that was the argument and it has always being shown to be weak and baseless.

if you don't know this, it means you don't and that's all. . . Simply be humble enough to agree you don't and not nickname your ignorance "God".

Ptolemy a greek natural philosopher after observing planetry movement onced said

"As i observe for my own pleasure the to and fro movement of the planets, i no longer stand on the earth with my two feet but on the presence of zeus himself."

Ptolemy didn't know the mechanism behind the planetary motions, he invoked God(zeus) as an explanation.

Centuries later Newton using Keplers work as a foundation solved the problem Ptolemy answered with God and thus Ptolemy's God became irrelevant and unneeded.

Newton again like Ptolemy came to the limits of his knowledge, solar stability and he again put God into the answer.

Leplace came along and solved the problem of stability with his pertubation equation and thus the God newton invoked fell of the equation. when asked where God fit in the picture Leplace answered "i have no need of that hypothesis".

If you use "God" to fill a gap left by your ignorance, this doesn't answer the question but rather postponds it and if you or someone else however somehow gets the actual answer, your initial answer of 'God' falls apart.

that has been the plight of 'God of the gap argument' simply accept ignorance when you are faced with one and don't make your ignorance evidence of your assumptions - it simply does not work.

Nice post men

Ranchhoddas:
You are now judging others by your own emotional standards. That the abundance of your heart tormented you does not mean it would torment others. For all you know he has being debating long before you. A person like Richard Dawkins has been debating the issue of God for a really long time; PROBABLY before you were born and he's still doing it. No torment anywhere.

hmm a fresher.

let's me teach you little bit about humans. all humans are naturally selfish.

you give a beggar money, you are giving so you'll feel good which will in turn benefit him. selfish.

you help your mom to buy bread, you do it first because you don't want to feel bad disobeying your mom. selfish

when you argue, you do that cos first you want to feel proud teaching someone so you'll be seen as intelligent then it benefits the person. selfish

if I ask you 1000naira card you won't give me. why? cos if you don't you won't feel bad. but if your brother asks even if it's your last 1k you most likely will give him so you won't feel bad not giving him. selfish.

you see a little child begging you feel pity(pains) you are psychotically bullied to help. so you won't feel guilty. selfish


I can go on and on. every living organism is selfish no matter what you think. the scientist is also selfish, teaching people about God or no God in order to win souls and reassuring himself that he is right. debating comes from pain. pain of ideology which one will subdue the other.

we are tormented psychologically to do things. make decisions, sacrifice one pain for comfort. I wish I had the time to say much sir.

Owliver:
hmm a fresher.

let's me teach you little bit about humans. all humans are naturally selfish.

you give a beggar money, you are giving so you'll feel good which will in turn benefit him. selfish.

you help your mom to buy bread, you do it first because you don't want to feel bad disobeying your mom. selfish

when you argue, you do that cos first you want to feel proud teaching someone so you'll be seen as intelligent then it benefits the person. selfish

if I ask you 1000naira card you won't give me. why? cos if you don't you won't feel bad. but if your brother asks even if it's your last 1k you most likely will give him so you won't feel bad not giving him. selfish.

you see a little child begging you feel pity(pains) you are psychotically bullied to help. so you won't feel guilty. selfish


I can go on and on. every living organism is selfish no matter what you think. the scientist is also selfish, teaching people about God or no God in order to win souls and reassuring himself that he is right. debating comes from pain. pain of ideology which one will subdue the other.

we are tormented psychologically to do things. make decisions, sacrifice one pain for comfort. I wish I had the time to say much sir.

Generalizations all over the place. Speak for yourself Oga.

Ranchhoddas:
Generalizations all over the place. Speak for yourself Oga.

OK some other time. have a great day

Owliver:
does it not defy logic. it is said that God loves us unconditionally but still creates hell fire just incase. now that's a condition. no one loves God even you. though you think you love him but you were psychologically bullied with fear(burning in hell)into "loving" him... that's absurd. I understand that all humans must attach meaning to life because it's the real deal. but I tell you. nothing is real in life. all is knowledge and perspective.

pride is the bane of every knowledgeable living beings.

all is vanity if you look at the brighter picture

The human mind can never comprehend who God really is, and even the holy scripture does not really tell fully who he is. The human mind is limited to what it can understand. Atheism is an attempt of the human mind trying to comprehend God fully, and then it meets a brick wall. As long as I don't understand it I don't believe it attitude, can I ask do u believe in ghost existence?

Ranchhoddas:
Generalizations all over the place. Speak for yourself Oga.

People with such stupendous ego often like to put other people in their own mess, they'd like to assume all is under the same ego problem as they are.

kingdenny:

The human mind can never comprehend who God really is, and even the holy scripture does not really tell fully who he is. The human mind is limited to what it can understand. Atheism is an attempt of the human mind trying to comprehend God fully, and then it meets a brick wall. As long as I don't understand it I don't believe it attitude, can I ask do u believe in ghost existence?

if I tell you I believe I'll only be lying cos people say dey have seen. I have not seen any so I have a reason not to believe. and I hope I don't see any. but to say ghost don't exist is ignorance. because I don't know what others have seen.

that's why arguing is selfish, bias, relative and subject to individual knowledge.

so to be at peace I worry less about God or no God. I go to church Sundays when am in my parents home. I pray to God(not likely Christian way). I don't argue much with religious people it's not usually worth the time. you get?

I just live.

johnydon22:


People with such stupendous ego often like to put other people in their own mess, they'd like to assume all is under the same ego problem as they are.

you should feel free to quote me with that I don't mind. if you still haven't know all living organisms are selfish then you haven't thought about it harder. ask questions if you feel like, I'll answer you instead of subbing me.

if you think the post is faulty throw your opinion. am willing to learn.

Owliver:
you should feel free to quote me with that I don't mind. if you still haven't know all living organisms are selfish then you haven't thought about it harder. ask questions if you feel like, I'll answer you instead of subbing me.

if you think the post is faulty throw your opinion. am willing to learn.

Nope you'll only attack the other person's personality, make assumptions about them with your self acclaimed knowledge of psychology when they post opinions that are consonant with yours.

You don't discuss [that is if you know how to] you first need emotional stability, learn to discuss and make your own points without referring to the other's personality because they don't agree with yours.

then i can know if you are worth me engaging.

johnydon22:




we know much more than our ancestors did, coming generations will know far more than we do now

This this should be the foundation of our existence. As the human brain continue to evolve more facts about the universe will come to light. As of today, we've overthrown all previous knowledge about the universe and gods.

kilo4sure:

Saying God is responsible for something, does not necessarily mean that he did it by magic, hence l wonder why you feel scientific discoveries eliminate God from the picture. Science could be a way of understanding God afterall via his works.

Since it's the bible that introduced us to God and all the creation story told by the bible is wrong then same god is wrong too. How can a god tell conflicting stories about how he made the universe; giving Moses one version and science finding another thing entirely?

If anyone can give me a reason why the ancient biblical people didn't have a clue about the universe until Galileo's telescope, I'll personally open a church.

oglalasioux:


Since it's the bible that introduced us to God and all the creation story told by the bible is wrong then same god is wrong too. How can a god tell conflicting stories about how he made the universe; giving Moses one version and science finding another thing entirely?

If anyone can give me a reason why the ancient biblical people didn't have a clue about the universe until Galileo's telescope, I'll personally open a church.

Even without the bible, several cultures had one god or the other in their folklore. The bible is part of the spiritual fossil record of mankind, it shows us how men inspired by God understood the spiritual, and records their walk with God. Genesis account refutes ancient Babylonian myths of creation and asserts that Elohim created the world, this would have been very clear to the people in that era. We are still making discoveries through science and maybe in the next 500 years our descendants would look back and then call us ignorant but this doesn't preclude the fact that God is using and inspiring men and women today who display the love of God even in our ignorance. The fact is if you read the books of Ecclesiastes and proverbs you would see that some of these inspired men also sought knowledge, and of course there are only certain factors in our growth that allows for scientific breakthroughs hence even when inspired by God there are many things we remain ignorant of in our time. What is important is your spiritual man, mental capacity and how well you affect your world via the love of God rather than knowledge alone.

oglalasioux:


Since it's the bible that introduced us to God and all the creation story told by the bible is wrong then same god is wrong too.

This is incorrect - before the bible and christianity and islam we had our own beliefs and religion and God.

i think the swagger of Abrahamism makes jewish myths tastier to whole lot of simple minded shallow african minds.

johnydon22:


Nope you'll only attack the other person's personality, make assumptions about them with your self acclaimed knowledge of psychology when they post opinions that are consonant with yours.

You don't discuss [that is if you know how to] you first need emotional stability, learn to discuss and make your own points without referring to the other's personality because they don't agree with yours.

then i can know if you are worth me engaging.

I know am on the wrong thread then. I don't attack personalities, I only analyse them. everything, every action is explainable. only if you just pay attention.

I know when to debate and when not to. aside from psychology am ok in philosophy no ego. so I know what you talk about but weather it matters or not is another question you omit. that's what am trying to put you through. am just helping.

johnydon22:


This is incorrect - before the bible and christianity and islam we had our own beliefs and religion and God.

i think the swagger of Abrahamism makes jewish myths tastier to whole lot of simple minded shallow african minds.

Hello sir Johnny... Longest time

herald9:
Hello sir Johnny... Longest time

hello my brother.. Long time it has been indeed. How are you?

Owliver:
I never intended to argue.

am just disappointed in you cos I expected you'd be wiser. I never knew your just a regular man trying hard to argue your way to convince yourself there's no God. lol.

I guess that gives you variable comfort which of cos you'll have to fill up all when emptiness(doubt and fear) crops in.

stop fighting God. you will never win. nobody has ever win. for how long will you service your fear(generations have gone through this)..... whether you like it or not there's a question the world can't answer and that's the question of God.

time for you to move on. Just an advice.

Wow ... No need arguing with atheist.. waste of Time..for me i'd Let dem be.. There argument doesn't change who God Really is..

Am a Christian but i don't believe If you ain't a Christian u will burn in hell, Those doctrine don't just follow up.. I just try to live a good life.. But God is Real, Christ is real.. So many things we don't know about God.

johnydon22:


This is incorrect - before the bible and christianity and islam we had our own beliefs and religion and God.

i think the swagger of Abrahamism makes jewish myths tastier to whole lot of simple minded shallow african minds.

In my opinion the traditional African gods are built around the same lies with the Abrahamic gods. My conclusion is that the powers purportedly attributed to anything god is one and the same with the laws of physics. There is no recorded miracle, except the fake ones, that doesn't have scientific explanation.

I understand that when men encountered the laws of physics for the first time they were so awestruck that they concluded it can only be the gods manifesting. But over the years same man manipulated these laws, kind of shifting the goal post in the middle of the game, and still claim they are instructions from the gods. But gods cannot act like that. It's been men all along. Religion is just a cover.

kilo4sure:

Even without the bible, several cultures had one god or the other in their folklore. The bible is part of the spiritual fossil record of mankind, it shows us how men inspired by God understood the spiritual, and records their walk with God. Genesis account refutes ancient Babylonian myths of creation and asserts that Elohim created the world, this would have been very clear to the people in that era. We are still making discoveries through science and maybe in the next 500 years our descendants would look back and then call us ignorant but this doesn't preclude the fact that God is using and inspiring men and women today who display the love of God even in our ignorance. The fact is if you read the books of Ecclesiastes and proverbs you would see that some of these inspired men also sought knowledge, and of course there are only certain factors in our growth that allows for scientific breakthroughs hence even when inspired by God there are many things we remain ignorant of in our time. What is important is your spiritual man, mental capacity and how well you affect your world via the love of God rather than knowledge alone.

The bolded makes all the difference. Why can't we agree that 4000 years old stories were told by ignorant people? Upon all Newton's contributions to physics, Einstein came up and proved him wrong about the nature of space and time. Einstein's idea was put to test and has been accepted today as the valid one. No one from Newton's race bombed and killed anyone. Why can't people accept that their ideas about the universe have been overtaken by science?

The beauty of science is that you can disprove it with evidence. That's why it's okay if our descendants call us ignorant in the next five hundred years. Charles Darwin knew less than 10% of his own theory compared to what science knows about evolution today. It'll not be out of place to call Darwin 'ignorant' because he'll be very awestruck to learn what progress science has made with his theory.

Efewestern:


Wow ... No need arguing with atheist.. waste of Time..for me i'd Let dem be.. There argument doesn't change who God Really is..

Am a Christian but i don't believe If you ain't a Christian u will burn in hell, Those doctrine don't just follow up.. I just try to live a good life.. But God is Real, Christ is real.. So many things we don't know about God.

I don't know or believe the religious myths but what I know is. time is not infinite even scientist agree to it.

what was before time? what created time? who designed our concept of life?

science says everything came out of nothing fine then let that "Nothing" be God. that will be the only example where nothing will be something.

even science with her best guess has become a laughing show on those questions, popping out stupid hypotheses.

the atheists argue just to reassure themselves Lolz. A non existence being must be so powerful to be able to give them head ache.

if they channel their frustration at religion it will be a lot easier but to challenge God(nothing)(who knows)(unknown knowledge) that is so sick and uncalled for. how much time do we have to wonder about what cannot be verified.

Lolz.

until they prove no God(which I doubt) there will forever be a God or nothing to fill the gap....

ValentineMary:
Nice post OP. But while a christian, I did not believe in jazz because it did not make sense.

The concept of God is flawed and a mockery to our intelligence. The moment we realised the Gods are the inventions of man then we overcome our fears.

Nice write up

Choi LMAO. bro am irreligious but there can't be no God. tell me what was before Big Bang?

your judgement is based on the religious explanations which have also discouraged me. but God? think again.

Owliver:
I don't know or believe the religious myths but what I know is. time is not infinite even scientist agree to it.

what was before time? what created time? who designed our concept of life?

science says everything came out of nothing fine then let that "Nothing" be God. that will be the only example where nothing will be something.

even science with her best guess has become a laughing show on those questions, popping out stupid hypotheses.

the atheists argue just to reassure themselves Lolz. A non existence being must be so powerful to be able to give them head ache.

if they channel their frustration at religion it will be a lot easier but to challenge God(nothing)(who knows)(unknown knowledge) that is so sick and uncalled for. how much time do we have to wonder about what cannot be verified.

Lolz.

until they prove no God(which I doubt) there will forever be a God or nothing to fill the gap....

The problem i have with Them is they equate Religion and God to be the same thing, God is Eternal, Religion is man Made..

Just look at how perfect the world is, God is Great abeg.

Efewestern:


The problem i have with Them is they equate Religion and God to be the same thing, God is Eternal, Religion is man Made..

Just look at how perfect the world is, God is Great abeg.

Allahu Akbar lolz

Efewestern:


The problem i have with Them is they equate Religion and God to be the same thing, God is Eternal, Religion is man Made..

Just look at how perfect the world is, God is Great abeg.

Bros, the world is NOT perfect

hopefuLandlord:


Bros, the world is NOT perfect

The universe is actually quiet organized and not what we would expect to be created by time and chance only.

hopefuLandlord:


Bros, the world is NOT perfect

Can you elaborate please ?..

or should i say Organized ?, maybe Perfect doesn't fit the picture.. The more i study about how our solar system operate the more i have faith in God.

lets take for example the human structure, Our Eyes.. Do you know that its current position is the best place to be, Any little shift might cause a defection, Not to talk of our body structure, You believe all these originates from nothing, C'mon bro.. You might be mad with religion, Even me am mad with Religion, But don't Be mad with God.. He Exists with or without u .

Good evening

kilo4sure:

The universe is actually quiet organized and not what we would expect to be created by time and chance only.

Even me tire for em atheist o.. Shuo.. Can Space and time organize a scattered room..

Owliver:
Allahu Akbar lolz

lolx which 1 be that again na.. Abeg i nor b muslim.. I love the way u Reply that jonny of a Guy.. but nexr time ignore them..

Good evening brother

Efewestern:


Can you elaborate please ?..

or should i say Organized ?, maybe Perfect doesn't fit the picture.. The more i study about how our solar system operate the more i have faith in God.

Saying its "perfect" is totally wrong, you need to study more about how our solar system operates, go deeper in it and you'll know its FAR from perfect

"Well organised" can be misleading, since there's even organization in chaos if you look hard enough

lets take for example the human structure, Our Eyes.. Do you know that its current position is the best place to be, Any little shift might cause a defection, Not to talk of our body structure, You believe all these originates from nothing, C'mon bro..

You need to study a lot of other animals bro, like The dusky antechinus and others, Google is your friend

And about originating from nothing; I DON'T KNOW, but I won't fill that gap with an imaginary being either

You might be mad with religion, Even me am mad with Religion, But don't Be mad with God.. He Exists with or without u .

I am not mad with religion or god bro, that's a misconception

kilo4sure:

The universe is actually quiet organized and not what we would expect to be created by time and chance only.

Bros, not every atheist accept the big bang theory bro

If you ask me how we came about, I'll simply say "I don't know" but most people just fill that gap in knowledge with an imaginary being

But like I said; the world is NOT perfect, it could be better