ValentineMary:

Okay. What is nothing it is simply the absence of something. It is not a real thing rather a condition of lack of something caused by it's lack of content. So would I call this God hell no.

And I did not say the universe poped out of nothing. I only gave instances where matter popped out of nothing in the quantum world. The universe might always has existed. Who knows

hopefuLandlord:


Exactly what I'm tryna say

A gay couple for instance can retire into their home, put on the AC, lock all doors, windows and anything that people can see them through, once all these things are done, they have close to zero chance of being caught

Compared to............

KingEbukasBlog:


@ Ranchhoddas

Ranchhoddas:
I believe hopefulandlord responded to that post. He said the same thing I would have said.

KingEbukasBlog:


The point is they are willing to take risks knowing full well what their punishments are .

KingEbukasBlog:


But you do realize that there was no universe in the first place right , say 1 trillion years ago ?

ValentineMary:

We can't just say that. All we know is our universe has been expanding for almost 14 billion years. Before the big bang our conventional mathematics break down so we can't say because it breaks.down then there was nothing.

KingEbukasBlog:

Do you agree the universe has a cause and beginning ?

ValentineMary:

It might or it might not. Maybe the universe has always been.

Owliver:
hmm a fresher.

let's me teach you little bit about humans. all humans are naturally selfish.

you give a beggar money, you are giving so you'll feel good which will in turn benefit him. selfish.

you help your mom to buy bread, you do it first because you don't want to feel bad disobeying your mom. selfish

when you argue, you do that cos first you want to feel proud teaching someone so you'll be seen as intelligent then it benefits the person. selfish

if I ask you 1000naira card you won't give me. why? cos if you don't you won't feel bad. but if your brother asks even if it's your last 1k you most likely will give him so you won't feel bad not giving him. selfish.

you see a little child begging you feel pity(pains) you are psychotically bullied to help. so you won't feel guilty. selfish


I can go on and on. every living organism is selfish no matter what you think. the scientist is also selfish, teaching people about God or no God in order to win souls and reassuring himself that he is right. debating comes from pain. pain of ideology which one will subdue the other.

we are tormented psychologically to do things. make decisions, sacrifice one pain for comfort. I wish I had the time to say much sir.

KingEbukasBlog:


Lol . Only atheists suggest that the universe has always been . It is impossible for the universe to be eternal .

www.hawking.org.uk/the-beginning-of-time.html

KingEbukasBlog:


Lol . Only atheists suggest that the universe has always been . It is impossible for the universe to be eternal .

www.hawking.org.uk/the-beginning-of-time.html

Have u heard of the big crunch I guess not.

Owliver:
OP I don't believe in religion but I believe in a God. different cultures and religions have defined God as best as they could.

there must be a designer, life can't just come out of nothing. that's no realistic sense to me.

now if you are going to ask who made God I'll tell you I don't know. I don't care. why do I need to bother on something beyond my knowledge.

I'll just live my life a good way and wait for death. am ready any day any time, because that's part of life.

maybe when we die we understand better. generations have come, generations will come. same question will bother them.

the fact that we don't have the capability to comprehend life makes God a fact. A knowledge greater than our knowledge. that is God.

so just live your life, but as long as you can't comprehend, acknowledge that as God(knowledge unknown).

Luckymay:
Hppefullandlord there you go again. Now that I have finally resumed going to church after so much persuasion from mum and well wishers.. You wan scatter my brain again. People have already started tagging me a witch and that I have a marine spirit. My mom had to cry and even my reverend had to speak to me In person before I resumed church. Now you've come with these theories. But funny enough, I don't know why it's so easy for me to believe in these theories than in the doctrines. I find peace and fulfilment with these than in all those things being preached and taught in the church but I don't want to disappoint my loved ones. So I guess I will pass. But just know you have kept me in one of those moods I have been avoiding.

Immorttal:
you've passed the most intricate stage of redemption. even though the transition is calling for a tad tilt to be wholesome.keep on questioning the plethora of uncertainty that surrounds religion and you are Welcome to the enlightened world of reality

although am a hardcored Vegan,i was tempted by that scrumptious soup on your profile.

Immorttal:
you've passed the most intricate stage of redemption. even though the transition is calling for a tad tilt to be wholesome.keep on questioning the plethora of uncertainty that surrounds religion and you are Welcome to the enlightened world of reality

although am a hardcored Vegan,i was tempted by that scrumptious soup on your profile.

Luckymay:

Lol. You are welcome to have a taste.

Immorttal:
then you must discard the meat. I love and respect animals.I propose they should be allowed to enjoy their very short life.
You can waybill the meatless version.Lol

hopefuLandlord:
DISCLAIMER: This post is about the fears I (Hopefullandlord) faced, I'm not saying such fears are what's keeping people theists but if you're a theist and the shoe fits, please wear it

This is not a thread about HOW I became atheist; NO, its about the fears I had during my journey

Atheism is something I actually became for a long before finally embracing it, this was long before I even knew what the word "atheism" means, so if there had never been an atheist before me, I would have been the first one

Part of the reasons it took so long for me was FEAR, not having anyone around me to guide me on that path made me stick with theism for a long time

Lets examine those fears that kept me theist

1 fear of failing in life due to lack of belief in god

stories were told in churches, at house fellowship, at home, at school, at almost everywhere imaginable about people failing in businesses, academics, sports, marriage, health and other walks of life, and they kept failing until they met Jesus; after meeting Jesus, successes in their businesses, health, marriage, academics followed automatically; these stories usually sounds very spellbinding and are usually followed with the popular bible verse

Matthew 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Mount Zion films also cemented this kind of fear, their films show all you need is Jesus

Hey bro, you don't have any hand? No legs? You can still become a Ronaldo Delima if you believe

Hey bro, you don't have a job? You can have a brand new car, a mansion and huge pile of hard bills in the next one minute if you believe

I know I exaggerated in the two examples above but consider stories of a someone driving from Ore to Lagos on empty tank; someone reparking a Car that had no engine (that story was all over Facebook)

our mathematics teacher who is one such born again was actually the most hungry looking out of all our teachers told us a story about a boy who didn't joke with his spiritual life, this boy according to him kept praying, fasting and attending fellowships; this actually took a toll on him when examination came as he was too busy facing spiritual life rather than reading; when results of the examination was out, he had the best result; naturally, we (the students or should I say audience) didn't believe this story at that point but our math teacher wasn't done, he said that boy passed because an angel appeared to him in the examination hall with answers, stood in front of him and told him to write those answers, no one could see the angel except this prayerful boy; we all believed the story ( secondary school brain)

To someone that's used to hearing stories like these almost every month since birth, the message is very clear Jesus provides everything Ask anything with faith and you have it

Such a fear was the easiest to overcome out of all my fears (it wasn't "easy" though)

How I Overcame that fear

I overcame that fear by keen observation, looking at the fact that the man or woman that prays the most is usually one of the poorest around

"Born again" students fail while a doubter like me succeed with flying colours; I then started to wonder where that "examination Hall angel" was when those prayerful students were failing

Seeing believers fail academically and me succeed actually made me realise that no matter the level of prayer you pray, you need to read, no angel would appear to you AND if you don't pray at all but read very well, you would definitely pass with flying colours

This fear was conquered early on in my life which enabled me embrace atheism faster, do you know why?

This is where it gets interesting

As you grow older, such fears transform from something you have much more control over; eg academics which involves studying, seriousness and reading; basically everything is in your hands, hence easy to debunk the "examination hall angel" logic since all power belongs to YOU and YOU alone TO things that you have much lesser control over; e.g Businesses which depends on a lot of luck; once you become an adult with those fears, it would be very hard to shake off, it becomes a part of you, you start thinking you can NEVER succeed in anything without Jesus

2nd fear is fear of witches, wizards, principalities, powers, spiritual attacks from extended families e.t.c

This was very hard for me to shake, growing up in Nigeria and hearing all sorts of stories about jazz being used on people kept me theist for many years too

Stories of people being freed from nightmares and impending death by mentioning the name of Jesus, stories in "fire in the word" by MFM (I read this bulletin every week, it was 10 naira back then)

Many tales of witchcraft attacks, tales about people using the name of Jesus to overcome those "attacks"

There was even a story of ritual killers transporting a woman to the kill location, this woman then kept shouting the name of Jesus in the bus being used to transport her, this name started causing commotion among the kidnappers and they told her to shut up, she however kept shouting the name until one of the kidnappers had to shut her mouth with a duct tape, she then used her hand to write "Jesus" on the floor of the bus, commotion resumed among the kidnappers and they had to stop the bus to let her leave

Stories of people that are born again being rejected by our local gods from being used as sacrifice while an unbeliever was accepted and sacrificed to the gods instead

Stories of extended families using jazz to bring family members back from abroad

Stories of love potions

Stories of relatives using spiritual means to keep their family members from succeeding in life

Stories of destinies being padlocked and thrown in the wilderness

Stories of grandmothers preventing their grandchildren from succeeding through spiritual means

Every Sunday, you're told these stories or their spinoffs

These stories were being reiterated by Christian movies and even secular movies are not left out

How I overcame that fear

The "grandmother" one made me start to question everything, my grandmother would prevent me from succeeding? Pure hogwash


Little by little, I started questioning each one

Witchcraft; that was the second one, there was this girl that people call a witch in school, she was feared by all and tales abound, like co students falling sick after having issues with her, even a particular girl died because of that; one day, I had a disagreement with her, she slapped me and I beat the holy crhap out of her, I beat her knowing I'm dying anyways, all through the rest of that school day, I was looked upon with pity by fellow students, most of them believing they'll never see me again, well I guess you know if I survived or not, right?

Your businesses and work fail because of anything but spiritual; I'm yet to see a business that keeps proper books fail without knowing the reason for the failure; t worst they fail due to bad luck

As I grew up, that fear got smaller and smaller; I looked at the huge level of curses being directed at bosses in Nigeria, its a surprise such bosses didn't fall down and die; how could Babangida kill so many people and none of them think it worthy to use "spiritual means" to eliminate him? Those Indians that are known to exploit us, they are stil going strong

Why can't that "spiritual means" be used to kill Boko Haram? Why is anybody even living since we should've all killed ourselves through those means since there would be someone somewhere who "deserves" those means

That was tough to overcome but I did anyways

3 Fear of what my family members might think

Hopefullandlord, What would your mother say? How would she feel? Your father? Have you thought about that? These words kept ringing in my brain

This was not really a "fear" thing but just a case of being in limbo out of respect, my parents take spiritual matters very seriously

This I overcame but I won't go into details because its more of a personal thing, what rocks my boat may sink yours

4 Fear of Yahweh himself, Hell fire and all

This fear was the hardest, hell fire, I'm burning for eternity

No one to save me, me and the devil who would torture me forever

Movies, books, Christian magazines, bible, everything points to hell one way or another

Here's the thing A visceral fear of something doesn't disappear automatically when you reason that the thing in question doesn't exist. You can still be scared of ghosts late at night just because it's late at night, even though you can clearly reason during a sunny afternoon that spirits are nonsense. Reason unfortunately doesn't override emotion just like that. It took time, fear of hell still remained for a long long time;

early morning preachers use hell fire as theme; you hear of hell almost everywhere
it kept cemented in my head and it was the HARDEST fear to overcome

But I overcame by realising all Muslims are hellbound; no matter how good they lived their lives, I started thinking about the good Muslims around, I then determined that hell is the place for me, let me point out that I don't believe in hell but indoctrination can be an almost impossible thing to overcome

So I started joking Elvis Presley, Fela and most of the popular people are going to hell, I won't be the only one there to be burning forever

Once I overcame this fear, I realised the absurdity of hell fire, it doesn't make ANY sense

Nothing I can do in this life warrants eternal torture

Even if I kill everyone in the world, I still don't think it warrants eternal torture let alone going to hell because of a lack of belief

Here's the thing; fear of Hell is an accident of your birth and not an indication of reality. Your parents/people around you taught you to fear Hell because they fear Hell. If you had been born to Hindus you would have been raised to believe in reincarnation. If you had been born a Viking you would have been taught that the only way to get into Heaven was to cross a rainbow bridge after dying gloriously in battle.

And BTW

Which hell?

Christian hell?

Muslim hell?

Hades?

Little by little, all these fears disappeared and I started taking full responsibility for my life, there's no witch that would prevent my success and I am succeeding


There you have it; all the fears that gave Christianity "life support" in my life for a long time


Thanks for the read

Luckymay:

It's kinda weird being a vegan. How do you enjoy your everyday meal? Anyways I'm not in position to question your ideology on animals., so I will respect your diet preference and send you the "meatless soup" so what's your DHL number?

Immorttal:
a nice summary of your stance on religion. But i would like to know your opinion regarding the aftermath of our actions. Is it punishable by 'God' creator?
Do sin exist?
Do you believe in afterlife as portrayed by christians and affiliated religions?
Do you pray?

Owliver:


I don't believe in after life. but really it won't change the fact if there is after life or not.

Owliver:
I pray yes, after doing my best I just pray to God. weather he answers me or not I wouldn't know.

Owliver:
sin exists, a society is a bond. religion is a bond too, so if you go against the agreed bond it's a sin yes.

Owliver:
but the hell fire thing doesn't make sense. religion defies logic so I won't agree blindly, but you should understand that bonds are laws. so yes if you agree being religious then you are bound by the the laws of the religion.

Luckymay:
Hppefullandlord there you go again. Now that I have finally resumed going to church after so much persuasion from mum and well wishers.. You wan scatter my brain again. People have already started tagging me a witch and that I have a marine spirit. My mom had to cry and even my reverend had to speak to me In person before I resumed church. Now you've come with these theories. But funny enough, I don't know why it's so easy for me to believe in these theories than in the doctrines. I find peace and fulfilment with these than in all those things being preached and taught in the church but I don't want to disappoint my loved ones. So I guess I will pass. But just know you have kept me in one of those moods I have been avoiding.

hopefuLandlord:


I would advice you keep going to church until you're not dependent on your parents like when you're on your own, being tagged witch and Miami water can lead to seriously bad consequences especially in an ultra religious country like Nigeria because most people start believing you're one

Most atheists in Nigeria profess one religion or the other for a reason

Luckymay:

Being tagged a witch or Miami water is not even my problem. I kinda like it. You know pple would be afraid of me, I enjoy solitude and serenity cos I would be avoided most of the time. I like the feeling. The issue is just my mom. I don't want her feeling bad. So I will continue going to church. And maybe one day I might believe in one of the voodoos of God appearing and confirming his existence to me. Who knows I might become Paul of our time. Thanks though.

EyeHateGod:

Miss Witch How about Fear of Parental Curse? If they Do, Do U think it'll Affect U?

Luckymay:

Parental curse Kwa? Because I refuse to go to church?
Haha that's a very funny comment coming from you. Curse has no effect. So don't bother cursing people who have wronged you cos you will end up getting hurt while they thrive.

Owliver:
OP I don't believe in religion but I believe in a God. different cultures and religions have defined God as best as they could.

there must be a designer, life can't just come out of nothing. that's no realistic sense to me.

now if you are going to ask who made God I'll tell you I don't know. I don't care. why do I need to bother on something beyond my knowledge.

I'll just live my life a good way and wait for death. am ready any day any time, because that's part of life.

maybe when we die we understand better. generations have come, generations will come. same question will bother them.

the fact that we don't have the capability to comprehend life makes God a fact. A knowledge greater than our knowledge. that is God.

so just live your life, but as long as you can't comprehend, acknowledge that as God(knowledge unknown).

Immorttal:
then you must discard the meat. I love and respect animals.I propose they should be allowed to enjoy their very short life.
You can waybill the meatless version.Lol

wirinet:

I have never really understood the philosophy behind veganism, can you explain further why you forbid eating animals and animal products but gleefully eat plants. So you do not respect plants and propose they should suffer in their very short life?