donjazet:


He lacks two basic aspects/xteristics of an attacker. Clinical finishing and set-piece taking/delievery, don't you think?

As you can see in this chart, Hazard in 14/15 was quite close to Ronaldo/Messi in both shot accuracy, and shot conversion rate...18% for Hazard, 21% for Ronaldo and 23% for Messi.

Where the massive difference between CR7/Messi and Hazard lies is in the number of attempted shots. Both Messi and Ronaldo attempted more than double Hazard's shots that year...Ronaldo almost trebled Hazard's shots.

I believe that this chart shows quite starkly Hazard's lack of ambition in comparison to the greats of our time. Despite an ability to hit the target with an accuracy that is on par with those legends, he was simply not chasing goals by taking more shots. If he had taken the same number of shots as Messi that year whilst maintaining that conversion rate, he would have scored 33+ goals that year alone.

Chelsea analysis: Antonio Conte won’t tolerate chaos at Stamford Bridge, he needs order and commitment

Antonio Conte saw off one of his predecessors on Saturday. He could do without another pitching up at Stamford Bridge on Sunday.
The 3-0 win over Leicester took Chelsea up to fifth place in the table, sweeping Claudio Ranieri’s champions aside without too much effort. There is still an air of unease about Conte and his team, though.

The flurry of betting that suggested the Italian might be leaving the Bridge last week had no real basis but no one would be entirely surprised if there was any truth behind the crashing odds. The 47-year-old has the demeanour of a man in a different job to the one he expected.

On Sunday, Jose Mourinho brings Manchester United to west London. It is the start of a dangerous run of six League games that also includes Everton and Tottenham at home and Manchester City away. Chelsea also face West Ham in the League Cup during this period.

Conte is famed for his ability as a tactician but he probably did not expect to have to make such sweeping changes to the shape of the team in his first eight games. If playing David Luiz at centre-back and Victor Moses as a wing-back in a 3-4-3 system had been in the job description then Conte may have spurned Roman Abramovich’s advances.

Ranieri and Mourinho might have some sympathy with the latest incumbent in the Chelsea hot seat. Between them, they were sacked three times by the Russian owner. Ranieri was the first to go and in the 12 years since he departed the club have had seven permanent and four temporary managers.

Across football there is a notion that stability brings success. In W6 a different mindset formed. Since 2004, Chelsea have won 13 trophies, including four titles and a Champions League. Instability seemed to be no barrier to collecting silverware. It was glory through chaos and managers appeared interchangeable.

There is some validity to this theory as long as the squad is filled with top-class, highly-motivated players. During the past decade the Cobham training ground was full of them. The leaders, fighters, winners of Chelsea’s great era are now gone or in deep decline. Perhaps anyone could win with Frank Lampard, Didier Drogba, John Terry, Michael Ballack, Petr Cech and their contemporaries but it is significantly harder to bring home trophies with Conte’s charges.
The Italian inherited an unbalanced squad that was the result of years of unfocused player acquisition that put too much of a premium on entertainment and too little on creating a solid framework for the team.

He might have expected more, too, from an academy that has produced five FA Youth Cup-winning sides since 2010. The consistency at this level has led to youngsters developing into first-team players. There is a disconnect at the club that favours high-priced imports and has sidelined (or loaned out) home-grown prospects.
Conte sees this. His mood has been downbeat. The Italian has at times been fixated with last season’s 10th-place finish. He does not want it to happen on his watch. The fear is real.

Victories over Leicester and Hull with Conte’s mix-and-match system will not give him any false sense of security. Ranieri’s team, who should have provided a proper test, had one eye on tomorrow’s Champions League tie against Copenhagen.
Their Continental adventures this year have been characterized by three-goal defeats in the domestic matches preceding their European ties — 4-1 routs by Liverpool and United before the loss at Chelsea. Ranieri admitted he was resting players at the Bridge.

Mourinho will take a different approach. He returns bearing a grudge over last season’s meltdown and sacking and will be focused on undermining Conte’s system. United have been as pedestrian under the Portuguese as they were in the previous campaign under Louis van Gaal but in the next six days Mourinho can transform their season.

Tonight he takes his team to Anfield to face Liverpool and on Sunday he is back at the Bridge, the two English grounds where he most enjoys winning. Whatever happens tonight, Mourinho will want to make a point in west London next weekend and his former team look vulnerable.

Chaos worked for a long time at Chelsea. It will not work for Conte. He is a coach who needs order, commitment and confidence that his players can carry out his instructions.

In January, or next summer’s window, Chelsea must find personnel to suit him. There is recognition among the club’s hierarchy that they need to tailor their business to their manager’s wishes. The other option is more change. That has stopped working. If Chelsea take that route, the suspicion is Abramovich will have to get used to an empty trophy cabinet.

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/chelsea-analysis-antonio-conte-won-t-tolerate-chaos-at-stamford-bridge-he-needs-order-and-commitment-a3370871.html

Nihilist:


As you can see in this chart, Hazard in 14/15 was quite close to Ronaldo/Messi in both shot accuracy, and shot conversion rate...18% for Hazard, 21% for Ronaldo and 23% for Messi.

Where the massive difference between CR7/Messi and Hazard lies is in the number of attempted shots. Both Messi and Ronaldo attempted more than double Hazard's shots that year...Ronaldo almost trebled Hazard's shots.

I believe that this chart shows quite starkly Hazard's lack of ambition in comparison to the greats of our time. Despite an ability to hit the target with an accuracy that is on par with those legends, he was simply not chasing goals by taking more shots. If he had taken the same number of shots as Messi that year whilst maintaining that conversion rate, he would have scored 33+ goals that year alone.

I see!! Well, in that case, we can only hope he improves his shots now that he has been freed of any defensive responsibility and has been given a free role.

United fans never learn. .

They brought us the stinking Kagawa is better gist. . We know how it ended
They also brought us the Depay is better gist . . .We also know how that ended

Now they have brought the Mkhitaryan gist. . and the dude is not even a guaranteed started for United.

You lots(most especially Dopejemi) dont have shame?

But naaah. Lets us go 5years ago when the great armenian ruled the Ukrainian league . . . . . Ukraine?? That one na country?

He is so good, he has managed 1 start for UTD this season. . Even Dortmund washed their hands off a lil while back on the possibility of having him back. I mean, this is the Dortmund that loves taking back their prodigal sons

I am not an advocate of comparing Hazard to the likes of Neymar, Messi or Ronaldo. I do however believe he is better than a lot of names some of these muchachos throw around here.

lalaboi:
I am not an advocate of comparing Hazard to the likes of Neymar, Messi or Ronaldo. I do however believe he is better than a lot of names some of these muchachos throw around here.

Better than Quaresma?

raumdeuter:


Better than Quaresma?

QUaresma is 33 now

At what age do you think Quaresma peaked? When you decide, kindly post his individual stats as you kuku like that kain thing

raumdeuter:


Better than Quaresma?

I would love to see Douglas Costas output/stats.

donjazet:


I see!! Well, in that case, we can only hope he improves his shots now that he has been freed of any defensive responsibility and has been given a free role.

I still don't buy into that line of thinking, but we shall see.

Looking at the creative side of things, we can see that Hazard created more chances and made more key passes than both Ronaldo and Messi that year, but I believe that this tells 2 stories.

1. Messi and Ronaldo are relatively selfish. Obviously great goalscorers are naturally selfish, but the difference in key passes and number of shots between the Messi\Ororo and Hazard is quite stark. While the 1st group are willing to assume full goal scoring responsibility by passing less and shooting more, Hazard is virtually running away from goals by passing more and shooting less.

2. Hazard's supporting cast is either kak, or Ororo/Messi play with superstars, or EPL defences are tougher than laliga defences.

I'm quite sure the answer is a combination of all 3.
Diego Costa and Hazard were the only Chelsea players to score more than 10 goals that year whereas Madrid had 4 and Barca had 3. Neymar alone scored more than our top scorer and Benzema, Bale and Hames combined scored more than Costa+Hazard. This explains why both Messi and Ronaldo assisted more goals than Hazard despite creating fewer chances.

Also only one EPL team that year conceded more than 60 goals, whilst a whopping 8 laliga teams conceded 60+ goals that season.

This just goes to suggest that Hazard would thrive in a place where he has an amazing supporting cast and plays rubbish defenders every week aka PSG. He's literally outsourcing most his attacking flair to his teammates. He is good for us, but may only truly shine in the weaker leagues.

donjazet:


I would love to see Douglas Costas output/stats.

Hahaha

Nail that Hijo de puta!

donjazet:
I would love to see Douglas Costas output/stats.

Maybe he is on the same level as Douglas Costa them or probably Kingsley Coman

Nihilist:
He is good for us, but may only truly shine in the weaker leagues.

But he isnt shining in the weak EPL or you mean he has to go to Cypriot league to realize his potential?

donjazet:


I would love to see Douglas Costas output/stats.

this guy dey play well last season
abi carlo don bury am for bench

raumdeuter:


Maybe he is on the same level as Douglas Costa them or probably Kingsley Coman

He is definitely much better than both. Mind you, I am not one of the hazard fanboys who over-hype him but I think you are very much underestimating/ underating him. What he has done/achieved so far deserve more plaudits than the constant berating which you dish out.
Nonetheless much more is expected.

I think where this argument gets completely missed is the comparison to Messi/Ronaldo and their near "GOAT" status. In that, I mean, when you compare anyone to Messi and/or Ronaldo, then ridiculous consistency and incredible stats come into the picture.

However, in a different era, Hazard, "stats wise", needs only to be as good as Zidane, to be WPOTY. And we all know baba never posted these Messi/Ronaldo figures.

nateevs:
I think where this argument gets completely missed is the comparison to Messi/Ronaldo and their near "GOAT" status. In that, I mean, when you compare anyone to Messi and/or Ronaldo, then ridiculous consistency and incredible stats come into the picture.

However, in a different era, Hazard, "stats wise", needs only to be as good as Zidane, to be WPOTY. And we all know baba never posted these Messi/Ronaldo figures.

difference is Zidane delivered when it was necessary.
Hazard is a good player but do you really think he would have been this relevant in a period that had zidane,ronaldinho,del pierro,totti,kaka,Delima(2002-2005)...etc

nateevs:
I think where this argument gets completely missed is the comparison to Messi/Ronaldo and their near "GOAT" status. In that, I mean, when you compare anyone to Messi and/or Ronaldo, then ridiculous consistency and incredible stats come into the picture.

However, in a different era, Hazard, "stats wise", needs only to be as good as Zidane, to be WPOTY. And we all know baba never posted these Messi/Ronaldo figures.

There is something Zidane posted which is called Big game performances. In that generation that counts a lot. Hazard in that Generation will be no better the Denilson who run around but disappear in big games

donjazet:

He is definitely much better than both. Mind you, I am not one of the hazard fanboys who over-hype him but I think you are very much underestimating/ underating him. What he has done/achieved so far deserve more plaudits than the constant berating which you dish out.
Nonetheless much more is expected.

The thing he has done like disappearing in key games?

Hazard goal scoring records in the CL reads 5 all time CL goals Only 2/3 from open play.

Ahmed Musa would be ashamed of such stats

The fact is, the point is.... If hazard was playin in any of d opposition fans team now, they would not b sayin trash about him...
It doesnt matter whether he (hazard) is good or is not good, what matters is dat he is playin a football that is good and enjoyable.....

Nihilist:


I still don't buy into that line of thinking, but we shall see.

Looking at the creative side of things, we can see that Hazard created more chances and made more key passes than both Ronaldo and Messi that year, but I believe that this tells 2 stories.

1. Messi and Ronaldo are relatively selfish. Obviously great goalscorers are naturally selfish, but the difference in key passes and number of shots between the Messi\Ororo and Hazard is quite stark. While the 1st group are willing to assume full goal scoring responsibility by passing less and shooting more, Hazard is virtually running away from goals by passing more and shooting less.

2. Hazard's supporting cast is either kak, or Ororo/Messi play with superstars, or EPL defences are tougher than laliga defences.

I'm quite sure the answer is a combination of all 3.
Diego Costa and Hazard were the only Chelsea players to score more than 10 goals that year whereas Madrid had 4 and Barca had 3. Neymar alone scored more than our top scorer and Benzema, Bale and Hames combined scored more than Costa+Hazard. This explains why both Messi and Ronaldo assisted more goals than Hazard despite creating fewer chances.

Also only one EPL team that year conceded more than 60 goals, whilst a whopping 8 laliga teams conceded 60+ goals that season.

This just goes to suggest that Hazard would thrive in a place where he has an amazing supporting cast and plays rubbish defenders every week aka PSG. He's literally outsourcing most his attacking flair to his teammates. He is good for us, but may only truly shine in the weaker leagues.

Hmm. I am amazed.!! I certainly hope he does better in terms of goals in order to quell his haters like raumdeuter!

raumdeuter:


The thing he has done like disappearing in key games?

Hazard goal scoring records in the CL reads 5 all time CL goals Only 2/3 from open play.

Ahmed Musa would be ashamed of such stats

That doesn't still take away his achievements, does it?

donjazet:
That doesn't still take away his achievements, does it?

Every footballer has achievement, even getting a club is an achievement, They key is how does he measure up to the people they compare him to?
To players like Oxlade Chamberlain, Snodgrass Chadli etc Hazard is king.

This topic is still on? Nawa o

Chestar5:
The fact is, the point is.... If hazard was playin in any of d opposition fans team now, they would not b sayin trash about him...
It doesnt matter whether he (hazard) is good or is not good, what matters is dat he is playin a football that is good and enjoyable.....

Have you read all your rivals posts on this thread regarding this hazard debate at all?


Or do you just like making unsubstantiated allegations against united fans?

nateevs:
I think where this argument gets completely missed is the comparison to Messi/Ronaldo and their near "GOAT" status. In that, I mean, when you compare anyone to Messi and/or Ronaldo, then ridiculous consistency and incredible stats come into the picture.

However, in a different era, Hazard, "stats wise", needs only to be as good as Zidane, to be WPOTY. And we all know baba never posted these Messi/Ronaldo figures.

The crazy thing here is that neither Messi nor Ororo were necessarily doing anything better than Hazard quality wise in 2014/2015

They only beat him on quantity...and it then boils down to his attitude.

He can shoot and pass with the same level of accuracy as Messi and Ororo....but he refuses to do so because "he's not chasing records"

He's almost like an Okocha type character.

BossKratos:




Have you read all your rivals posts on this thread regarding this hazard debate at all?


Or do you just like making unsubstantiated allegations against united fans?

jemi, dayo re rival fans na.....

lalaboi:
United fans never learn. .

They brought us the stinking Kagawa is better gist. . We know how it ended
They also brought us the Depay is better gist . . .We also know how that ended

Now they have brought the Mkhitaryan gist. . and the dude is not even a guaranteed started for United.

You lots(most especially Dopejemi) dont have shame?

But naaah. Lets us go 5years ago when the great armenian ruled the Ukrainian league . . . . . Ukraine?? That one na country?

He is so good, he has managed 1 start for UTD this season. . Even Dortmund washed their hands off a lil while back on the possibility of having him back. I mean, this is the Dortmund that loves taking back their prodigal sons

I am not an advocate of comparing Hazard to the likes of Neymar, Messi or Ronaldo. I do however believe he is better than a lot of names some of these muchachos throw around here.

Oga, when it comes to what matters most in football which is goals and assists, mkhitaryan sh.its on hazard, whether he copped that stat in Kenya is nobody's business, hazard also played in a shi.t league in France and his output still no near

If I want drimbling, i'll call hazard, if I want goals i'll call mkhitaryan and de bruyne

Bye

I agree with Nihilist. The problem is his mentality jare two days ago or so i watched our goals in that 2013/2014 season the way he Dribbles, cuts in and shoot, he seemed to have quite a hunger to fire in shots f goals but now he rarely does that the few times he tries it either it is agonisingly wide or hit against a defender or he just opts to pass. Though he seems to be returning to his old habits but i believe he has work to do in terms of fitness, shooting accuracy(goals) and setpieces(freekicks especially) that If he wants to at least go down as Chelsea legend.

Hate him or love him,mou remains a genius!

Pogba tho.....

dopeJemi:


And bench who? Martial? Mkhitaryan? No fncking way, except he is coming to put super glue on Lingard's seat

you lack common sense, It has always be your problem.

diggz:
Hate him or love him,mou remains a genius!

Pogba tho.....

How? This dross is what you are calling genius? I dash anybody who wants. This is disgraceful football for a top side. What's the difference between this and Tony Pullis' Stoke?

If this is genius, what would you call Ferguson's United?

hensben:
you lack common sense, It has always be your problem.

You lack basic education, your illiteracy oozes all over the place and your ignorance reigns supreme

Act like you've got some sense when next you talk to me because I won't be this polite next time, now shift