OdenigboAroli:


But bros, you no too like Onazi...lol
On a serious note,if I was the coach Ndidi,Ogu and Agbo will all be ahead of Onazi. Don't get me wrong ,dude works hard but I am a lover of ball playing. Get the ball and stretch a sweet smooth pass...No long balls.

Ok I no agree with that Agbo own but Ogu and Ndidi? Absolutely. Fact- You can't run around the field with thesame intensity for 90 mins
Fact- You can pass the ball with thesame intensity for 90 mins, if we can make the Algerians chase the ball for more than 30 minutes altogether in the first half, by 60 mins they will be asking for a 'volleyball time-out', and can we do that with Onazi? Fact- NO
can we do it with Ndidi or Ogu? Fact- YES
but I would prefer Ndidi because he can score once in a while

tbaba1234:


These are the passing stats of Onazi, Ndidi and Ogu.

Ogu has the best passing stats.
Ndidi uses more of long balls
Onazi has a higher passing % than Ndidi.

This is exactly what I've been saying. Alot of people overrate Ndidi's play making abilities. Especially his passing,while Statistically it doesn't add up.
Ive followed his stats closely and I can tell he is not a very good passer and this should be no surprise becaus he was trained in his early days as a CB.
However, he is incredible in ariel duels and some other defensive aspects.
Ogu juts like I pointed out earlier is the best passer out of the DM s....

goldfish80:


Your points are well noted.
But you have to factor in that Rohrs favoured formation is 4-2-3-1 formation. Which is the German national team's formation. Its not strange for Rohr who has worked within the DFB setup for a while to employ this formation.

Coming to the midfield analysis in this formation, it requires a double pivot of a play maker and a runner.
Germany played with Schweinsteiger as the deeplying playmaker while Sammy Khediera is the runner....
Shweinsteiger is required to recycle the ball and hit long passes to the wingers and forward runners to setup a lightning quick counter. While Khediera presses high up the field and distrups the opposition from getting to mark out Shweinsteiger, just like Gattuso used to do for Pirlo and later Vidal at Juve.
The Germans really on Khediera's incredible big engine to drive them from midfield. Midnight you, Kross can do same job Shweinsteiger used to do.

Coming to Nigeria, Onazi could just be our Khediera while Mikel our Shweinsteiger. With either Iwobi or Etebo playing the Ozil role.
In this role, onazi doesn't really require to be a pass master since he has a Mikel playing beside him. His job will be to take away markers from Mikel, while Obi sets attacks from deep... Just like Onazi, Khediera is not a pass master but he uses his energy to steam role teams.

Alot of teams who play 4-2-3-1 formation most times have a player who is limited in passing range in a double Pivot.
Just like Arsenal plays with Carzola the deep lying playmaker and Couqline the energetic but limited passer.

Let's not throw Onazi away yet. He could add alot to the team in a dual pivot role.

point of correction. Khedira is not a limited passer at all, he had an average passing percentage of 87.2% in the Euros. I agree with what you said about the tactical part but even in such a system the runner is never a limited passer. In the semifinal, Can who played that role had a passing percentage of more than 80 as well, Onazi is getting closer to 70 not 80 and that is a major problem. You are making it sound as if Ndidi cannot pressure high up the field? If we really want somebody who can do what Khedira does then it has to be Ogu, if we want someone who can do what Kroos does then we have to play Ndidi. Mikel should be playing the Ozil role with little defensive responsibilities, even if Mikel has to start as the deep lying playmaker, Onazi still isn't the best runner we have, his passing stats are just too poor

tbaba1234:


Is this stats for one game 51 passes? That is not a good measure. You need more to properly assess.

I believe both Ndidi and Onazi can play together.

He averages 51 passes per game and has a percentage success rate of 74%,while Ogu averages averages 59 passes per game and has 85% success rate out of those 59 passes.
He's basically twice the passer Ndidi is.

goldfish80:

This is exactly what I've been saying. Alot of people overrate Ndidi's play making abilities. Especially his passing,while Statistically it doesn't add up.
Ive followed his stats closely and I can tell he is not a very good passer and this should be no surprise becaus he was trained in his early days as a CB.
However, he is incredible in ariel duels and some other defensive aspects.
Ogu juts like I pointed out earlier is the best passer out of the DM s....

actually those stats are for his Europa leagues alone, check his league stats and see

goldfish80:

He averages 51 passes per game and has a percentage success rate of 74%,while Ogu averages averages 59 passes per game and has 85% success rate out of those 59 passes.
He's basically twice the passer Ndidi is.

source?

goldfish80:

He averages 51 passes per game and has a percentage success rate of 74%,while Ogu averages averages 59 passes per game and has 85% success rate out of those 59 passes.
He's basically twice the passer Ndidi is.

Alright

Mickael2:


point of correction. Khedira is not a limited passer at all, he had an average passing percentage of 87.2% in the Euros. I agree with what you said about the tactical part but even in such a system the runner is never a limited passer. In the semifinal, Can who played that role had a passing percentage of more than 80 as well, Onazi is getting closer to 70 not 80 and that is a major problem. You are making it sound as if Ndidi cannot pressure high up the field? If we really want somebody who can do what Khedira does then it has to be Ogu, if we want someone who can do what Kroos does then we have to play Ndidi. Mikel should be playing the Ozil role with little defensive responsibilities, even if Mikel has to start as the deep lying playmaker, Onazi still isn't the best runner we have, his passing stats are just too poor

LOL.. Passing is not one of Sammi's greatest assets. His stats could be up to such percentages because of the team he plays for.
Real Madrid got rid of him because of this limitation which was exposed in the el classico and got Toni Kroos after that dreadful game Barca beat them 5=0...

Ndidi can press but not as good as Onazi. Remember Ndidi is a CB by trade who was converted by Genk to a DM.
His energy levels can't be compared with Onazi who was trained as a CM...
Am sure you will understand my point.

Mickael2:


source?

There you go.. AvP = Average pass per game

Mickael2:


Ok I no agree with that Agbo own but Ogu and Ndidi? Absolutely. Fact- You can't run around the field with thesame intensity for 90 mins
Fact- You can pass the ball with thesame intensity for 90 mins, if we can make the Algerians chase the ball for more than 30 minutes altogether in the first half, by 60 mins they will be asking for a 'volleyball time-out', and can we do that with Onazi? Fact- NO
can we do it with Ndidi or Ogu? Fact- YES
but I would prefer Ndidi because he can score once in a while

Well,I agree with your take on Agbo simply because he is not properly tested but going by his coach's assessment one can assume he is a brighter prospect.
I am trying not to run Onazi down but he need to understand the competition that faces him,currently. He needs to work on his ball playing ability and be more intelligent when going for tackles.

goldfish80:

LOL.. Passing is not one of Sammi's greatest assets. His stats could be up to such percentages because of the team he plays for.
Real Madrid got rid of him because of this limitation which was exposed in the el classico and got Toni Kroos after that dreadful game Barca beat them 5=0...

Ndidi can press but not as good as Onazi. Remember Ndidi is a CB by trade who was converted by Genk to a DM.
His energy levels can't be compared with Onazi who was trained as a CM...
Am sure you will understand my point.

And Barca haven't destroyed Madrid ever since? I remember 6-2, 4-0 and so on.

Khedira left, so also did Ozil and DiMaria, what was their faults too? There is a madrid fanbase called www.managingmadrid.com, they still miss Khedira till this day, he wasn't sold because of his limited passing stats but because of his injury records. In fact, in that team Di Maria was more of the runner then and not Khedira, don't know why you are misinterpreting these things just to suit Onazi, the fact is that there is no room for a poor passer in a good team as simple as that.

Drobga was a CB turned CF, does that mean he can't press? On the contrary, he used to play as the lone forward for Chelsea, pressed the hell out of most defenders back then. I agree with the intial tactical breakdown of the German system, I just disagree with two facts, that the Runner need not be a good passer and that Ndidi cannot be that runner

goldfish80:

There you go.. AvP = Average pass per game

but that's for the Europa league alone and two of those matches were against last season's beaten semifinalists, Athletic Bilbao. You don't expect him playing for Genk to average 100% against Athletic Bilbao that was even difficult for Madrid to defeat? The fact that he won the man of the match in one of those games should tell you what he does

Mickael2:


And Barca haven't destroyed Madrid ever since? I remember 6-2, 4-0 and so on.

Khedira left, so also did Ozil and DiMaria, what was their faults too? There is a madrid fanbase called www.managingmadrid.com, they still miss Khedira till this day, he wasn't sold because of his limited passing stats but because of his injury records. In fact, in that team Di Maria was more of the runner then and not Khedira, don't know why you are misinterpreting these things just to suit Onazi, the fact is that there is no room for a poor passer in a good team as simple as that.

Drobga was a CB turned CF, does that mean he can't press? On the contrary, he used to play as the lone forward for Chelsea, pressed the hell out of most defenders back then. I agree with the intial tactical breakdown of the German system, I just disagree with two facts, that the Runner need not be a good passer and that Ndidi cannot be that runner

Khedira is a good player. A good box to box midfielder. But creativity and passes isn't what his game is all about.
Khedira covers more kilometres than any other player at Real Madrid. His all action style endeared him to fans,not his play making or passing.
Alonso would have more touches on the ball and make more passes while Khedira will cover more kilometres. That's who they worked at Madrid.

Mickael2:


but that's for the Europa league alone and two of those matches were against last season's beaten semifinalists, Athletic Bilbao. You don't expect him playing for Genk to average 100% against Athletic Bilbao that was even difficult for Madrid to defeat? The fact that he won the man of the match in one of those games should tell you what he does

His league stats aren't available and I matched his stats at the Europa with that ot Ogu in the same competition.
Ogu played against Inter Milan. It hasn't been exactly a cake walk for him.

goldfish80:

Khedira is a good player. A good box to box midfielder. But creativity and passes isn't what his game is all about.
Khedira covers more kilometres than any other player at Real Madrid. His all action style endeared him to fans,not his play making or passing.
Alonso would have more touches on the ball and make more passes while Khedira will cover more kilometres. That's who they worked at Madrid.

you are twisting everything. Meanwhile Madrid then played a 4-3-3 and Di Maria covered the same amount of KMs if not more than Khedira used to do. Your point should be that Khedira is not known for his PLAYMAKING abilities not touches. His passes were good, they have always been good, but the number of chances he creates is poor, but that isn't his problem, he is tasked with winning the ball up the field and arriving late into the box to create a 3rd scorer formation where Di Maria moves to the wing to cross, Higuain stays in the middle and Ronaldo falls into the middle too giving Di Maria two targets, he(Khedira) arrives late without getting the attention of the defenders waiting to pounce on any loose ball, but that's by the way. I have already said that if we are playing a 4-3-3, his deficiences can be masked(Onazi) but since we aren't employing that tactics, it just won't work with him.

Also you didn't really think that a CMF would have more touches than a DMF? Not possible

goldfish80:

His league stats aren't available and I matched his stats at the Europa with that ot Ogu in the same competition.
Ogu played against Inter Milan. It hasn't been exactly a cake walk for him.

you just said it yourself. Inter Milan, what's their league position right now? They are not even in the top 10. Meanwhile, Ogu has also played a lower amount of minutes, notably, he didn't play the match against Southampton who really are the only true competitors in that group, so you see why his stats are up?

Mickael2:


you are twisting everything. Meanwhile Madrid then played a 4-3-3 and Di Maria covered the same amount of KMs if not more than Khedira used to do. Your point should be that Khedira is not known for his PLAYMAKING abilities not touches. His passes were good, they have always been good, but the number of chances he creates is poor, but that isn't his problem, he is tasked with winning the ball up the field and arriving late into the box to create a 3rd scorer formation where Di Maria moves to the wing to cross, Higuain stays in the middle giving Di Maria two targets, he arrives late without getting the attention of the defenders waiting to pounce on any loose ball, but that's by the way. I have already said that if we are playing a 4-3-3, his deficiences can be masked(Onazi) but since we aren't employing that tactics, it just won't work with him.

Also you didn't really think that a CMF would have more touches than a DMF? Not possible

Of course a CM can have more touches than a DM. Carzola averages more touches than Couqline...
Charles Arangiuz has more touches than Julian for Bayern Leverkusen
Koke has more touches than Gabi at Athletico. Examples are too numerous to mention.

When you compare Khedira's passing quality with other top players in his position, you will see a deficiency.
When you compare his passing with a Toni Kross you will see a distinct difference. Its like comparing chalk and cheese.

Mickael2:


you just said it yourself. Inter Milan, what's their league position right now? They are not even in the top 10. Meanwhile, Ogu has also played a lower amount of minutes, notably, he didn't play the match against Southampton who really are the only true competitors in that group, so you see why his stats are up?

Their league position isnt so good. Frank De Boer tried to change their system close to what he used at Ajax.
If you watched their games you will notice they tried playing through the midfield with more possession. That's why players like Kondogbia couldn't cope with the demands of the system.
John Ogu dominated an inter midfield who were pass oriented like De Boer tried to coach them into.

goldfish80:

Of course a CM can have more touches than a DM. Carzola averages more touches than Couqline...
Charles Arangiuz has more touches than Julian for Bayern Leverkusen
Koke has more touches than Gabi at Athletico. Examples are too numerous to mention.

When you compare Khedira's passing quality with other top players in his position, you will see a deficiency.
When you compare his passing with a Toni Kross you will see a distinct difference. Its like comparing chalk and cheese.

I should have been more specific. In a counter attacking team, do you think it's possible? They usually by-pass their CMF and pull the ball to Di Maria for a quick counter, that does not take anything away from Khedira.

Before Casemiro came to Madrid, Kroos was their DMF so his passing stats were higher than Khedira's own. But when you compare Kroos' passing stats when Casemiro is in the team with that of Khedira, there is nothing between the two, we are talking of 87-88/89 so nothing special about it. You only see the distinction when you consider key passes, again, that's not what Khedira is employed to do.

goldfish80:

Their league position isnt so good. Frank De Boer tried to change their system close to what he used at Ajax.
If you watched their games you will notice they tried playing through the midfield with more possession. That's why players like Kondogbia couldn't cope with the demands of the system.
John Ogu dominated an inter midfield who were pass oriented like De Boer tried to coach them into.

the bold part answers your question. He tried and he was unsuccessful. Teams that play like Ajax( example Barcelona, Arsenal and Man city) are not poor teams, once you achieve that pressing uniformity, that team will be great but Inter is still piss poor, what does that mean? De Boer was unsuccessful and yes, he was sacked too, that sums up how good Inter are

Mickael2:


the bold part answers your question. He tried and he was unsuccessful. Teams that play like Ajax( example Barcelona, Arsenal and Man city) are not poor teams, once you achieve that pressing uniformity, that team will be great but Inter is still piss poor, what does that mean? De Boer was unsuccessful and yes, he was sacked too, that sums up how good Inter are

They played well in patches. In a few of their league games, they steam rolled team and pressed them out of the pitch.
Against Empoli, I think... Can't remenber exactly again,just like with any new system they couldn't replicate this week in week out but the idea was there.
They normally lost because they couldn't keep their shape not because teams where out balling them.
I watched them decimate Juventus in a breathtaking sweeping football.

Mickael2:


I should have been more specific. In a counter attacking team, do you think it's possible? They usually by-pass their CMF and pull the ball to Di Maria for a quick counter, that does not take anything away from Khedira.

Before Casemiro came to Madrid, Kroos was their DMF so his passing stats were higher than Khedira's own. But when you compare Kroos' passing stats when Casemiro is in the team with that of Khedira, there is nothing between the two, we are talking of 87-88/89 so nothing special about it. You only see the distinction when you consider key passes, again, that's not what Khedira is employed to do.

Just like you've said khedira doesn't have good numbers when you zero in on his key passes per game.
His stats show he has good passing range over a short distant. You will be asking for trouble if you asked him to attempt passimg over a distance.

That's why am critical of his passing abilities. However, he is a good recycler of the ball and tries to keep it as simple as possible.
You know we are discussing Khedira because I likened him to Onazi bearing in mind Rohr employs the German 4-2-3-1 formation.

goldfish80:

Just like you've said khedira doesn't have good numbers when you zero in on his key passes per game.
His stats show he has good passing range over a short distant. You will be asking for trouble if you asked him to attempt passimg over a distance.

That's why am critical of his passing abilities. However, he is a good recycler of the ball and tries to keep it as simple as possible.
You know we are discussing Khedira because I likened him to Onazi bearing in mind Rohr employs the German 4-2-3-1 formation.

thank you! His short distance passes are okay, thats all I want you to understand . but the issue is that Onazi's basic passes and by that I mean short distance passes are poor, 75% isn't good at all and that too in the Turkish league alone.

Then we go to Ndidi, I know I have seen his stats, it's on Squawka but I don't know how to post pictures here, he is second only to one teammate of his that has an average pass completion percentage of 89, I think he is around that 85-86 mark and they too play a 4-2-3-1, funny right? I mean Genk o, and Ndidi is actually the midfielder who resembles more of a runner in that system, I have been saving this point for last and I do hope that you will go and check it and see that I am correct. That means that if we play Ndidi then we are basically telling him to continue doing what he does for his club and he is quite good at it, the best in belgium infact

TheSuperNerd:
Hmmm... So far so good...

Sir Tbaba1234 endorses Ideye.

Sir BascoVanVeli also endorses Ideye.

Sir Icon4s... What will it be?

Seems everyone is leaning towards Ideye...

Sir TheGoodJoe... U nko?? I know it will be "Nacho upfront" talk... Looolllll

Madam Safarigirl... U nko? Who leads the line for you between Ideye and Ighalo?

note: pls... Anyone is free to answer oooo.... That no.9 role neva sure for anybody right now.

I dnt judge players based on club performance alone.

What u guys are doing is comparing d two players based on their league performances.
The Greek league is no where near the EPL.

When Ideye moved to WBA u all saw how he flopped big time.

I had also mentioned here that Ighalo is a flash in the pan kind of player. But Ideye had never flashed any pan. The likelihood of Ighalo showing flashes again is higher that of Ideye that has never shown any flashes.

Ideye usually lacks confidence each time he wears the green and white jersey and Ighalo is usually under pressure to prove to Nigerians that his exploits at Watford are no flukes.

However, based on what each player can bring to the table, I will recommend Ighalo.

Ighalo has not been impressive in our colours but Ideye is no any better.

Ideye never took a single shot even off target against Zambia something Ighalo is nt known for. Ighalo is more aggressive and takes on defenders. The talk of Ideye being involved in build up play to Iheanacho's goal, Who says Ighalo cannot be involved in build up plays too?

Ighalo's capabilities IMO puts him ahead of Ideye.
However, Rohr has the final say.

Isaac Success should rise to the occassion. His time has come. He is better than Ighalo presently IMO.

Mickael2:


thank you! His short distance passes are okay, thats all I want you to understand . but the issue is that Onazi's basic passes and by that I mean short distance passes are poor, 75% isn't good at all and that too in the Turkish league alone.

Then we go to Ndidi, I know I have seen his stats, it's on Squawka but I don't know how to post pictures here, he is second only to one teammate of his that has an average pass completion percentage of 89, I think he is around that 85-86 mark and they too play a 4-2-3-1, funny right? I mean Genk o, and Ndidi is actually the midfielder who resembles more of a runner in that system, I have been saving this point for last and I do hope that you will go and check it and see that I am correct. That means that if we play Ndidi then we are basically telling him to continue doing what he does for his club and he is quite good at it, the best in belgium infact

Truth is that Onazi is not so bad if compared with Sammi Khedira.
Do you know against France at the world cup he had 86% pass accuracy against pressing machines like Matuidi and Pogba.
Onazi brings great balance to our play.
Honestly he's not as bad as being painted... Successive super eagles coaches over the last few years played Onazi ahead of every DM we have.
Check this link out to read what Onazi brings to our team. http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2115432-scouting-report-should-arsenal-sign-ogenyi-onazi-in-the-summer-transfer-window

TheGoodJoe:


My point is clear. Best finisher stays up front. Although I am impressed with Ideye's passing skills. Nacho upfront. Flanked by Simon and Victor Moses. With Iwobi Behind them. Mikel and Ndidi in midfield.

One word for this, Fiyahh.

................................ Iheanacho (CF)
................................ Iwobi (AMF)
S. Moses (LMF)................................. V. Moses (RMF)
......................... Mikel (CMF)
............................... Ndidi (DMF)

Is this a prediction of how Rohr will set up the team or how YOU feel the team should be set up.
Well, anything is possible.

But have it in mind that one of the basic principles of coaching is "You dnt change a winning formation". U can substitute like for like though. Like Ighalo coming in for Ideye and Moses coming in for Simon.

I see Iwobi and Iheanacho retaining their roles as against Zambia.

Onazi-Mikel partnership is likely to continue.

This is Gernot Rohr. If it were Siasia or Oliseh i would have believed that ur formation more.

Icon4s:

Is this a prediction of how Rohr will set up the team or how YOU feel the team should be set up.
Well, anything is possible.
But have it in mind that one of the basic principles of coaching is "You dnt change a winning formation". U can substitute like for like though. Like Ighalo coming in for Ideye and Moses coming in for Simon.
I see Iwobi and Iheanacho retaining their roles as against Zambia.
Onazi-Mikel partnership is likely to continue.
This is Gernot Rohr. If it were Siasia or Oliseh i would have believed that ur formation more.

i will pick etebo ahead of either iwobi or iheanacho. He is more robust, quick, skillful, rugged, wins free kicks, can convert it too, blessed with good shots on both feet, plays pk very well, doesn't loose possession easily, tracks back & marks very well & better in aerial duels.

In camp at 8.30pm Monday.
Muhammed, Onazi, Akpeyi, Ighalo, Iheanacho, Iwobi, Ezenwa, Balogun, Omeruo, Ndidi

Only 10 players in Camp..

zoboizee:


i will pick etebo ahead of either iwobi or iheanacho. He is more robust, quick, skillful, rugged, wins free kicks, can convert it too, blessed with good shots on both feet, plays pk very well, doesn't loose possession easily, tracks back & marks very well & better in aerial duels.

Etebo is a good player but come on..

I will always start iheanacho for Nigeria because you know, it takes just one chance for him to score. Iwobi is probably the most intelligent player that we have at the moment.

Etebo can not start for now but is useful as an impact sub

goldfish80:

LOL.. Passing is not one of Sammi's greatest assets. His stats could be up to such percentages because of the team he plays for.
Real Madrid got rid of him because of this limitation which was exposed in the el classico and got Toni Kroos after that dreadful game Barca beat them 5=0...

Ndidi can press but not as good as Onazi. Remember Ndidi is a CB by trade who was converted by Genk to a DM.
His energy levels can't be compared with Onazi who was trained as a CM...
Am sure you will understand my point.

Sir Goldfish, Don't mind these people. If u continue to speak the gospel truth from today till eternity, they won't hear. Abeg save ur energy for something else.

Super Eagles Coach Set To Start Work On
Defence With Balogun, Omeruo And Ndidi In
Focus



In his bid to nip the threat of Riyad Mahrez and
Islam Slimani in the bud, coach of the Super
Eagles of Nigeria Gernot Rohr will begin work with the defence of the Nigerian team.


Rohr will from tomorrow take the trio of Leon
Balogun, Wilfred Ndidi and Kenneth Omeruo on
special defensive drills ahead of the November 12 tie in Uyo.


Injury ruled Balogun out of the 2-1 win over
Zambia, and in his absence Omeruo paired with
William Troost Ekong but Ekong is yet to arrive
camp as at the time of filing in this report putting his participation in tomorrow’s session in doubt.


Ekong is the only central defender to have played the two competitive game Rohr has handled the Super Eagles, but the experienced duo of Balogun and Omeruo could see him drop out of the starting line up.


Meanwhile Ndidi who played as a right back away in Ndola, will be a part of the session as well as the Genk man who is also comfortable as a central defender or a defensive midfielder is
already in camp.


Source: http://owngoalnigeria.com/2016/11/07/super-eagles-coach-set-to-start-work-on-defence-with-balogun-omeruo-and-ndidi-in-focus/

That's super debatable.... Where does that leave Mikel and Iheanacho in terms of Cerebral abilities in the beautiful game?

I think Mikel should be the first name out of anyone's mouth when it comes to football intelligence in the present Super Eagles team NOT because OF EXPERIENCE BUT because WE HAVE SEEN HIS WIDE RANGE OF MIDFIELD ABILITIES AND DECISION MAKING.

tbaba1234:


Etebo is a good player but come on..

I will always start iheanacho for Nigeria because you know, it takes just one chance for him to score. Iwobi is probably the most intelligent player that we have at the moment.

Etebo can not start for now but is useful as an impact sub