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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Culture / Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. (21629 Views)
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Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by OlaoChi: 6:42pm On Nov 26, 2016 |
Probz:how can a foreign word be more popular than the local ones? saying ogbono in pidgin for example doesn't mean they don't know it is apon when speaking yoruba does anybody even say wantintin in a conversation? I don't know 4 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by Probz(m): 5:01pm On Nov 27, 2016 |
OlaoChi: That's how it is. Most Yoruba peeps I know use the Igbo names (ogbono, okro) than apon/ila etc. Nwantinti-wantintin is just an example of how Igbo coinages have been adopted by westerners and Yorubanized. And there's the fact that you now eat Igbo soups even if you do have native names for them, whereas in the past you ate amala and ewedu and little else. There's no shame in admitting a borrowing from each culture in certain things. I now see more and more Igbo men and women rocking agbada and gele far more than red cap and Ishiagu (former being indisputably Yoruba). That's just the influence of close proximity and globalisation right in Nigeria. 11 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by OlaoChi: 6:18pm On Nov 27, 2016 |
Probz:not when speaking yoruba and you think yorubas haven't always had apon and ila ![]() nobody says wantintin 8 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by pazienza(m): 7:14pm On Nov 27, 2016 |
alablec: What do you know about Igbo to state that egwusi is recent in Igbo? Are you an Igbo? Or is this Post a side effect of your ingestion of Gbegiri, Ewedu and Amala? 6 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by pazienza(m): 7:15pm On Nov 27, 2016 |
Let me call my guy. He seem to be better at these types of topics. cc: Bigfrancis21 7 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by Nobody: 7:26pm On Nov 27, 2016 |
Probz:d reason why u didn't knw is yoruba words is bcuz u don't speak yoruba. Any ibos dat can speak yoruba and compare it with igbo will knw well is a yoruba word. Mo fe se egunsi "I want to break the shaft open" Egun in yoruba means shaft covering d melon while open means "si" but in Edo language Egunsi means "Pap" other yoruba words are; Asewo Pele Oga mi Owo Omo Oba Oluwa Shey? Ni? Abi? Oyinbo Tokunbo They are being used in igboland like is theirs ![]() Aso-ebi Egbon Ogbeni 8 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by bigfrancis21: 7:27pm On Nov 27, 2016 |
drsugar: Lol. Here we go again! Egwusi is Igbo. Oya and Abi are Yoruba. Gara gara and shakara do not seem to be Igbo or Yoruba. I'm not sure of 'sha'. 4 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by bigfrancis21: 7:31pm On Nov 27, 2016 |
Onijagidijagan: Nah, most of these words are not used in Igboland like you think. They are common in the pidgin lingo of Lagos state. The ones popularly used all over Nigeria are ashebi, tokunbo, shey, abi, oya, ashawo especially. Oyibo is Igbo, oyinbo is Yoruba. Evidence exists that shows the usage of oyibo in Igboland to as early as the 1700s. Also, read up Olaudah Equiano's biography where he mentioned the word 'oyeeboe' in his book to mean 'light-skinned person'. Mind you this was someone born in 1745 in an interior village in Igboland far from the sea or the boundaries of Igboland with other areas but the word was already in the lingo of their Igbo dialect as of the early 1700s. 9 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by bigfrancis21: 7:32pm On Nov 27, 2016 |
pazienza: Nna a tugo m down. ![]() ![]() ![]() 5 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by Probz(m): 7:46pm On Nov 27, 2016 |
Onijagidijagan: In the same way una, dey, okporoko and OYIBO are being used in Yorubaland like it's their own, nko? And it's only Delta and Anambra/Enugu Igbos that call white people oyibo. I'm pretty sure elsewhere they're called onye/ndiocha or nwabekee (in Imo area). Either way, it's been established that oyibo is Igbo, oyinbo Yoruba. The northern and western Igbos that use that word say OYIBO and not oyinbo. Oyibo is also the word used in Nigerian Pidgin. Oyinbo is exclusively Yoruba. No one's denying that. And I wasn't even aware that oyinbo was a thing sef, until I came to Nairaland. Most people I know (inc. the Yorubas that supposedly came up with this so-called oyinbo) all say 'oyibo' without the 'n.' 3 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by pazienza(m): 11:00pm On Nov 27, 2016 |
4 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by bigfrancis21: 9:16am On Nov 28, 2016 |
Probz: Yes, in pronunciation oyibo is pronounced without the 'n'. It then comes as a surprise when it is spelled with the 'n' by yorubas when many don't pronounce the 'n' in it. Not only okporoko and oyibo, other words too like ugu (corrupted to 'ugwu' by yorubas), uziza, onugbu, okwuru (corrupted to okra in English) etc. How many Nigerians even know that 'una' and 'dey' in pidgin English come from 'unu' and 'di' in Igbo language? Chi di = God dey, Chi di mma = God dey good, etc. The pidgin English that we speak in Nigeria today was the broken form of African-languages-influenced English formed by slaves in the Americas, Akan, igbo, ewe slaves etc. in their attempt to learn English, which was introduced to the shores of West Africa much later by christian missionaries. In Imo and Abia states, they say 'ama' to mean 'I will', as in 'ama bia' meaning 'I will come'. In anambra/enugu states they say 'mma bia' instead. Co-incidentally, in black american english till today, they still speak 'ama' which means 'I will', for example 'ama come to your house'. In that case that would be a surviving unadulterated Igbo word used in black american English. 6 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by Probz(m): 11:49am On Nov 28, 2016 |
bigfrancis21: Precisely. Although I highly doubt the reason that southern Igbos say bekee is because of Mr. Baike, though. Speaking of southern Nigerian words entering Ebonics, "buckra" (the akata name for the white man) comes from the original Calabar coinage Mbakara. It might have spread from Cross River through to eastern Igboland (Abia and, later, Imo), which gradually got corrupted to bekee as the years went on, which makes sense given that the use of the term bekee is more or less restricted to Imo and Abia states. I do know some Abakaliki people who use both oyibo and bekee. And then there's another group of people who use oyibo when talking about things in connection with the white man (obodo oyibo, English language = oyibo) but call the white man himself either onyeocha or ndiocha (plural). The whole thing's confusing. 1 Like |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by OlaoChi: 1:01pm On Nov 28, 2016 |
Probz: I'm shocked that this issue of oyibo/oyinbo has dragged this long you are right, some pronounce it oyibo and others even say ebo like the Benins do both in Benin and Yoruba the meaning as to do with peeling or pale. what does oyibo mean in Igbo? 6 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by InyinyaAgbaOku(m): 9:36pm On Nov 28, 2016 |
Probz: Agbadais a Yoruba word but the style isn't yoruba |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by InyinyaAgbaOku(m): 9:38pm On Nov 28, 2016 |
bigfrancis21: Abi and sabi are Portuguese 4 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by bigfrancis21: 1:51am On Nov 29, 2016 |
OlaoChi: It doesn't matter if the word may have a 'broken down' or 'literal' meaning sort of. Some words are just sufficient on their own without having to ascribe meanings to it syllable to syllable. What matters is the earliest usage of the word and academic evidence exists that show Igbo using 'oyibo' since as early as the 1700s. No academic evidence can be said for Yoruba. 5 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by Probz(m): 2:24am On Nov 29, 2016 |
OlaoChi: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oyibo Wikipedia might not be the most reliable source but look at how much space the Igbo theory takes up compared to two lines for the Yoruba one. I guess the western and northern Igbos had always used it to refer to a light-skinned Igbo (I'd be lying if I knew what o yi bo broken down to means) but in reference to the white man this site has it that it's a way of mimicking the white colonial masters who could only pronounce "oyeebo" instead of "onye Igbo" when referring to Igbo slaves. I've noticed that the i/e sound is notably extended in the Igbo version and the Binis also pronounce it oyeeeebo, or simply eebo. 7 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by OlaoChi: 8:38pm On Nov 29, 2016 |
bigfrancis21:you dont seem to understand that there's logic in every african word describing a thing or person. you dont just call a Caucasian 'oyibo' for nothing. like Ejima(used also in Igala), which is Ejire/Ibeji in yoruba, it is broken down to relate to 'two', this is not so in Igbo language. it is not far fetched to suggest that 'ejima' and 'oyibo' came into igbo lexicon through igala of course, they could have also always been with the igbo people as part of words that remained after the yoruba-edo-igbo separation but have now lost their root meaning in igbo but the first is more believable 8 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by OlaoChi: 8:46pm On Nov 29, 2016 |
Probz:i dont think this onye igbo thing makes sense, do you buy it? 4 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by bigfrancis21: 10:16pm On Nov 29, 2016 |
OlaoChi: This is all speculation. Until you come up with established academic evidence showing an ancient usage of 'oyibo' in Yoruba land it still remains an established Igbo word. Even Ajayi Crowther, a Yoruba, wrote about being called 'oyibo' by Igbos in the 1800s during his expansion of Anglicanism across the Niger. 4 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by bigfrancis21: 10:17pm On Nov 29, 2016 |
OlaoChi: It does because you asked for a probable Igbo meaning of the word which he just toldd you. 'peeled skin' doesn't even sound plausible because even if the skin is peeled it turns red immediately due to blood accumulation and flow. 6 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by Probz(m): 10:28pm On Nov 29, 2016 |
OlaoChi: "I have the intention of putting this across a long while ago, I believe now is the time. So how did the word Oyinbo crept up in Yoruba lexicon? This piece might help. The Yoruba has been familiar with different races from the onset of time. The Yoruba were a race of diverse races at one point in their history. To the Yoruba ancestors, the white were not always "Oyinbo", the most tenable word for a white person with the ancient Yoruba is Ofun. Originally however, the parent word for 'Oyinbo' may have come from the Fon kingdom of Dahomey, who contacted the white folks first after the long seperation from that race. The Fon for a white man is 'Yevo'. This word is derived from 'Oye' and 'Ovo', meaning, "of different shade". To the Fon, mankind is called Gbetor, meaning 'father of life', now the word in full is a phrase, 'Gbetor-yenor' meaning, 'a shadow (or replica) of the father of life'. That establishes 'ye' as in 'yes' as shade or shadow in that language. For instance, Yesehmeh in that language stands for 'shade's transit point'. Again, racial shade is known to this people. To the ancient Yoruba, white- man is 'e fun', we still say it in Yoruba language as 'Oyinbo-alawo-funfun'. That's a long-tail-expression however. Some Yoruba ancestors were white-skinned. It shows in the way Yoruba peoples named them afterwards based on their colour. For instance, the word Efunyela simply means "white skin is befitting to Ela". The Yoruba perception of their ancestors can also be observed in the way Yoruba sees the albino. They says, owo koko lafii wogi, owo Orisha lafii wo afin. Afin are spotted with Orisha, who are Yoruba ancestors. The Yoruba equally have black heros. One of the black hero in annal of Yoruba history was Odu. And in that regards is the folksong, "eye melo t'olongo wale?"...'Okan Dudu-Aro, Okan Sese Osun'. Hope you don't take the nursery rhyme as worthless. 'Duduaro' in another way round is 'Odunaro' a Yoruba surname spotting with a black thinker in annals of Yoruba history. "Sese Osun" is also a historical phrase, we speak of Osun as "Osun-se-ngese, Olooya 'yun" and also 'etu obeje elese osun', a totem of mother Osun, the matriarch of Yoruba race. Osun was a black beauty of Yoruba history, hence it is said, 'Odu eleyinju ege'. Osun is o su, that is of dark shade. Another way of putting it clearer is O du." I got that digging around on Nairaland. Oyinbo conceived of there doesn't even originate from the Yoruba but the country of Benin. All I can see is Yorubas attaching a meaning to everything and then claiming it to theirs. I dunno. The "oye Ibo"-oyibo theory is very plausible. I can get behind the Yoruba remix (oyinbo) but the fact that it's pronounced oyibo even by the Yorubas makes me wonder. Or is the "n" in "oyin" semi-silent? I can barely tell the difference between the Igbo and Yoruba oyibo vs. oyinbo pronounciation save for the sound that the "i" sound is elongated in the Igbo/Niger delta form so it sounds oy-EEEEEEE-boe compared to the yoruba oh-YIH-boh. No one pronounces the n. At least not that I know. Other theories state that "oyibo" literally translates to white in Urhobo. I've also come across convincing Bini theories. The whole thing's complicated. 1 Like 2 Shares |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by OlaoChi: 5:31am On Nov 30, 2016 |
bigfrancis21: I don't know why you are taking this as a fight ![]() don't act ignorant please 8 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by bigfrancis21: 5:33am On Nov 30, 2016 |
OlaoChi: It's no fight men. Please read the excellent article by probs up above. 2 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by OlaoChi: 8:23am On Nov 30, 2016 |
Probz: waoh! you have real good knowledge of African languages. there seems to be lots of connection between Fon and yoruba, not only does Fon divination system work like Ifa the parts of the corpus are named similarly and priests are called Avore (Abore in Yoruba) it seems "v" in Fon is pronounced "b" in Yoruba. And if oyibo is originally a word from Fon, it must have come to Yorubas first before moving to igboland but if relatable and sensible meaning can be attached to a word doesn't that prove something? 6 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by Probz(m): 8:52am On Nov 30, 2016 |
OlaoChi: No, I don't. I've openly acknowledged having copied this theory from yet another of Nairaland's oyibo vs. oyinbo debates. Now, the Yoruba have penchant for creating alternative words to convey their ideas beyond reasonable doubt. In respect to 'Oyinbo', it simply means 'oyin bo', which means 'honey-deficient' or 'honey peeled off'. Yoruba equates Oyin with Adun. As a resault of this, we therefore have the phrase 'Oyinladun'. 'Adu' (Odu) is a variant of Adun (Odun). The Yoruba of old equate the black melanin with honey. They thus have the idea of 'sexual chocolate' before our time. Oyinbo thus mean 'drilled of honey', in Yoruba. Is all of this possible within Yoruba thought system? A Yoruba proverb to that effect says 'irini si nisoni lojo' meaning: 'appearance will tell what you are described as' I also got that post from the OP. In short, oyinbo is a Dahomey/Benin-derived words with a Yoruba-attached meaning. Assuming native honey is dark as melanin and melanin's strongly associated with honey to the ancient Yoruba, I can get behind the oyinbo remix but notice that this dude's stated that "the Yoruba have penchant for creating alternative words to convey their ideas beyond reasonable doubt." In other words, the Yoruba ascribe meaning to foreign concepts and ideas by breaking them down into syllables. It's not mad to think they could've also done this with the Igbo oyibo and corrupted it to oyinbo (two syllables joined together as a single word/idea). The word still doesn't originate with them though. That's the bottom line. https://www.nairaland.com/2191374/etymology-word-oyinbo That's the thread I got all this info from, after much digging around. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by AkinPhysicist: 1:26am On Dec 01, 2016 |
bigfrancis21: ![]() ![]() 5 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by AkinPhysicist: 1:40am On Dec 01, 2016 |
bigfrancis21: ![]() ![]() 3 Likes
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Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by AkinPhysicist: 1:44am On Dec 01, 2016 |
OlaoChi: ![]() ![]() 7 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by Probz(m): 10:33am On Dec 01, 2016 |
AkinPhysicist: That one be oyinbo pepe sef. Does that look peeled white or red to you? I'm with bigfrancis. He's given an example of an isolated village deep in the Igbo hinterland using oyeebo to refer to the light-skinned among them well before the arrival of contact between other ethnic groups, such as the Yoruba. And it's not unreasonable to suggest that oyibo as it's known today originated from the funny way whites pronounced "onye Igbo" when requesting the highly sought-for Igbo slaves. That's no more bizarre a phenomenon than blacks using the same word white slave masters used to call us (nigger-nigga). And that's spread way beyond akata in the states. 6 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by AkinPhysicist: 3:08pm On Dec 01, 2016 |
Probz: ![]() ![]() 3 Likes
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