AkinPhysicist:


Open your eyes that's a Nigerian burn victim - the 'peeled' part of the skin looks like the skin of a white person. I can post similar pics of a very dark skinned burnt victim. Where is the 'academic' (as championed by the daft fellow) proof of the bolded(in your post)?. If you provide the 'academic' proof then I will concede the point. Until then Oyinbo is an authentic Yoruba word.

Probz:

Still looks more red/yellow to me than white.

Probz:

Oyinbo is Yoruba, oyibo Igbo. Simples. We're debating which is the ORIGINAL. They both have convincing theories and etymologies. Try and understand that Mr Physicist.

Probz:

Oyibo may derive from oye-eboe, oyinbo from one nonsense Yoruba adage of peeled honey melanin equating to white skin. That doesn't make the form used by the Igbos (and the rest of Southern Nigeria) any less authentically and natively Igbo.

Probz:

You can keep your oyinbo, onyibo, oyingbo, and all these other silly western remixes. Oyibo as used by Igbos/Binis is as Igbo as Agukwu Nri.

AkinPhysicist:

how can you see the obvious when you are blinded with Ipob propaganda?


Semantics. Either they both have a common origin. Or one copied from the other. I posit that the Oyibo was copied from Oyinbo. Until you and the daft fellow provide 'academic' proof otherwise, you are just wasting your time.


It is your and your people's adage that is nonsense and useless. Again where is your 'academic' proof?



So which is it? Is it a Bini word or an Igbo word? You are too confused to be logical. Again 'academic' proof please. Since you and the daft fellow have reduced African culture to words written in some White man's language.

Probz:


Oludah Equiano was a white man? And you go call call someone else foolish? No wahala. Continue o jare

AkinPhysicist:


Mumu: does he have to be a white man to use a white man's language? Are you a white man because you are typing in English? Abeg swerve - you no get sense

Probz:


Nah mern. You're the one saying that we're reducing African culture to words spoken by some white man. And who's this oyibo of whom you dey speak?
If that was in reference to Equiano, I'm shocked.

AkinPhysicist:

The bolded was NEVER said by me. Here is my quote again since you can't read: "...you and the daft fellow have reduced African culture to words written in some White man's language." Now, do you see the difference between what I posted and what you claim? If you can't even read then how can you debate the issue? You might even be dafter than the confused fellow who is looking for written evidence for an ancient African culture. You can't read words. And even pictures you can see clearly. Shior.

Probz:


Still looks more red/yellow to me than white.

Oyinbo is Yoruba, oyibo Igbo. Simples. We're debating which is the ORIGINAL. They both have convincing theories and etymologies. Try and understand that Mr Physicist.

Oyibo may derive from oye-eboe, oyinbo from one nonsense Yoruba adage of peeled honey melanin equating to white skin. That doesn't make the form used by the Igbos (and the rest of Southern Nigeria) any less authentically and natively Igbo. And they're both pronounced nearly exactly the same, other than that the Yorubas will write it with an n because of a variant/different etymology you've ascribed to it.

You can keep your oyinbo, onyibo, oyingbo, and all these other silly western remixes. Oyibo as used by Igbos/Binis is as Igbo as Agukwu Nri.

Probz:


I won't argue with that. My bad for misreading.

That doesn't change the fact that there's documented evidence of Ndigbo using oyibo (albeit in an earlier form) since the 1700s. Where's the evidence that oyibo was derived from oyinbo?

OlaoChi:



waoh I thought you were smart. calling the yoruba given etymology nonsense shows you are one of them blinded by bigotry.

in all sincerity the onye igbo theory you're giving doesn't hold water because there's no evidence to support that, it also doesn't make sense calling whites oyibo knowing that it is their corruption of "onye igbo"


Oyinbo, oyibo, ebo are all said in Yoruba but written language has a liking for oyinbo

it's a pity the minds of young people in Africa is not open and free, you can never grow intellectually like this

OlaoChi:



waoh I thought you were smart. calling the yoruba given etymology nonsense shows you are one of them blinded by bigotry.

in all sincerity the onye igbo theory you're giving doesn't hold water because there's no evidence to support that, it also doesn't make sense calling whites oyibo knowing that it is their corruption of "onye igbo"


Oyinbo, oyibo, ebo are all said in Yoruba but written language has a liking for oyinbo

it's a pity the minds of young people in Africa is not open and free, you can never grow intellectually like this

bigfrancis21:


The Hausas call the Igbos 'nyamiri', a corruption of 'nye m miri' (give me water) they heard when the first Igbos who arrived in the North were thirsty and had to ask for water to drink. The Hausas, obviously could not understand what was said so in return called them these 'nyamiri' people. That's just an example of how the spoken words of someone could be a marker for that person and could be later used to describe, know or call that person, as in 'oye ibo' as the Europeans would have called it (obviously they could not pronounce the 'gb' sound), and in turn they were called called 'oyeebo' because of their funny accent or way of pronouncing 'onye igbo'.

Forget all these unnecessary argument. Oyibo is an Igbo word. Olaudah Equiano described in his memoir his village people using it as far back as the early 1700s. This was a remote village in Igboland far from the sea and the border areas with other linguistic ethnic groups but 'oyibo' was already being used in the Igbo language. This removes any sort of 'linguistic adoption' theory as you may want to infer. The earliest academic evidence of 'oyinbo' in Yoruba land comes much later in the mid 1800s in the form of Yoruba dictionary written by Ajayi Crowther. About 7 years earlier before he published the dictionary, Crowther had written a short book about his experiences in spreading Christianity (anglicanism) East of the Niger and he had remarkably mentioned that he and the Igbo Sierra Leonan were often called 'oyibo ojii' ('white' blacks or europeanized blacks) by the Igbo natives. Note Ajayi Crowther spent some time in the east during his religious expansion. This is probable evidence that this word may have been carried over to Yoruba land by Ajayi Crowther and his religious crew for usage, which later spread in the west. This is even more plausible given that the Nri civilization is the oldest civilization in Nigeria, predating Ife, Bini and Oyo civilizations.

This explains why online articles on the origin of 'oyibo' leans more towards an Igbo origin than Yoruba origin.

You need to really dig deep into history to discover the truth for yourself. Let go of your sense of 'cultural superiority' and you'd be surprised at what you discover.

OlaoChi:

how this keeps dragging along is shocking.
this nyamiri incident doesn't apply here because the Hausas use it as a derogatory term to mock igbos, it is not meant to be descriptive in nature but a mere mockery unlike onye ibo which you have no evidence that White people called igbos, or why igbos will call white folks a term they know originally refers to them. why would igbos call white people a name that igbo people use to refer to themselves? also onye igbo refers to a single (igbo) person, "ndigbo" is for the Igbo people in general. why would europeans (and which europeans exactly, provide proof) call all igbos "onye ibo" or "oyiibo"


how does this rest in your brain?

all you did here is assumption



Adura, Wakati, kefiri, are words for example used in Yoruba from arabic since the 17th century. it doesn't matter if igbo started using oyibo since the 13th century, as long as it doesn't mean anything in Igbo, it tells bad for you as a descriptive term in a west african language should be self explanatory
other languages that use oyibo or forms similar to it have meanings related to its use eg. peel/pale, shade, hue which are self explanatory in relation to its use


igbo Nri civilization you talked about was heavily influenced by Benin and Igala, infact Eri was most likely from igala


I'm half igbo, so I don't hold any cultural superiority of yorubas, at least not a hint of such until I began to see the immature way igbos behave on cultural and historical matters

bigfrancis21:


@bold...well that's very debatable. You would have to come up with evidence of your 'hard influence' on Nri culture. Till date, there's very little evidence of such culture influences on Nri. But we have surviving Nri cultures in those areas instead. For example, the igbo 4 market days of Eke, Oye, Afor and Nkwo are still used by the Binis and Igalas till date. Oyibo simply means 'light skinned' in Igbo. It doesn't matter if there's a syllabic word for word breakdown for it. It's just like trying to ascribe a meaning to 'complicated' syllable by syllable when the word just means what it is or is sufficient in its entirety. Second, Nri predates the entire culture of southern Nigeria, thus Eri being from Igala is unimaginable.

The usage of nyamiri, derogatory or not, is just an example of how words stick from mispronunciation. 'bekee' also used in Igbo to refer to whites or English originates from one white missionary in Igboland, 'baikie' which the igbos pronounced as 'bekee' and with time the usage and meaning of the word expanded to refer to all whites, European civilization, English language etc. Also, meanings and usage of words expand with time. With time new meanings and interpretations are added or removed from words. Ekwensu, the igbo word for devil, did not refer to the devil originally. Now it means devil, since the advent of christianity. Like wise, the original meaning of 'chi' referred to 'guarding spirit' as the Igbo traditional religion believes that everybody has a guardian angel or spirit guide of their own called 'chi'. However, since christianity Chi now refers to God. Chukwu = chi+ukwu (great chi) = God. In linguistics, it's a known fact that the meanings of words or word usages are not static. They evolve over time.

Third, I don't think there's any need over flogging this topic. Theres academic evidence showing the usage of oyibo in igboland to as far back as the 1700s. Anything else is mere speculation and cannot be proven. Ajayi crowther himself, in his dictionary did not render the 'oyin+bo' theory in his dictionary of the mid 1800s. Such theory is most likely of recent adaptation. Oyibo is Igbo, oyinbo could be yoruba. I don't think any Igbo has claimed 'oyinbo' to be Igbo because it does not make sense in Igbo but oyibo itself does.

Your being half Igbo does not negate your sense of cultural superiority. It is clearly written all over your posts.

If oyinbo means sense in Yoruba, so be it. In igbo language, oyibo makes sense to us, and it has been academically proven to be of older usage than 'oyinbo'.

QED

OlaoChi:

how this keeps dragging along is shocking.
this nyamiri incident doesn't apply here because the Hausas use it as a derogatory term to mock igbos, it is not meant to be descriptive in nature but a mere mockery unlike onye ibo which you have no evidence that White people called igbos, or why igbos will call white folks a term they know originally refers to them. why would igbos call white people a name that igbo people use to refer to themselves? also onye igbo refers to a single (igbo) person, "ndigbo" is for the Igbo people in general. why would europeans (and which europeans exactly, provide proof) call all igbos "onye ibo" or "oyiibo"


how does this rest in your brain?

all you did here is assumption



Adura, Wakati, kefiri, are words for example used in Yoruba from arabic since the 17th century. it doesn't matter if igbo started using oyibo since the 13th century, as long as it doesn't mean anything in Igbo, it tells bad for you as a descriptive term in a west african language should be self explanatory
other languages that use oyibo or forms similar to it have meanings related to its use eg. peel/pale, shade, hue which are self explanatory in relation to its use


igbo Nri civilization you talked about was heavily influenced by Benin and Igala, infact Eri was most likely from igala


I'm half igbo, so I don't hold any cultural superiority of yorubas, at least not a hint of such until I began to see the immature way igbos behave on cultural and historical matters

drsugar:
Heard the igbos using these words like the yorubas use them while I was in the East and kept wondering who the real originator of the words is.

Oya - as in 'oya' now
Shakara - as in your 'shakara' too much
Gragra - as in no do 'gragra' for me.
Egusi - as in 'egusi' soup
Sha - as in okay 'sha'.
Abi - as in 'Abi' now

Add any other word like this if you know.

bigfrancis21:


Nah, most of these words are not used in Igboland like you think. They are common in the pidgin lingo of Lagos state. The ones popularly used all over Nigeria are ashebi, tokunbo, shey, abi, oya, ashawo especially.

Onijagidijagan:

d reason why u didn't knw is yoruba words is bcuz u don't speak yoruba.
Any ibos dat can speak yoruba and compare it with igbo will knw well is a yoruba word.

Mo fe se egunsi "I want to break the shaft open"

Egun in yoruba means shaft covering d melon while open means "si" but in Edo language Egunsi means "Pap"

other yoruba words are;

Asewo

Pele

Oga mi

Owo

Omo

Oba

Oluwa

Shey?

Ni?

Abi?

Oyinbo

Tokunbo

They are being used in igboland like is theirs

Aso-ebi

Egbon

Ogbeni

Probz:


I can only LMAO when you say that Nri kingdom was heavily influenced by Bini. Nri that even predates all these other civilisations.

ezeagu:


Nobody uses shey, abi, oya, or tokunbo in Igboland unless they are Lagos raised and pidign is hardly used outside of Port Harcourt anyway, they use okwa, ngwa, okirika and the likes. In fact I have never heard the later ones used in any Igbo state even by Lagos based adults (maybe kids back for Christmas).

Yoruba words used in Igboland are usually for things made by or borrowed from Yorubaland, so like ori (shea butter) and ashebi. Igbo people in the diaspora may use Lagos terms because everybody has mixed more there.

ezeagu:


Nobody uses shey, abi, oya, or tokunbo in Igboland unless they are Lagos raised and pidign is hardly used outside of Port Harcourt anyway, they use okwa, ngwa, okirika and the likes. In fact I have never heard the later ones used in any Igbo state even by Lagos based adults (maybe kids back for Christmas).

Yoruba words used in Igboland are usually for things made by or borrowed from Yorubaland, so like ori (shea butter) and ashebi. Igbo people in the diaspora may use Lagos terms because everybody has mixed more there.

ezeagu:
Not this oyibo business again, nobody has been able to give evidence of any non-Igbo community using 'oyibo' before 1850 yet, so until then 'oyibo' is Igbo.

RedboneSmith:


Ajayi Crowther's Yoruba-English dictionary from 1843 contains the word oibo for white man. That's before 1850, so there.

https://books.google.com.ng/books?id=uadfAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA80&lpg=PA80&dq=crowther+oibo+white&source=bl&ots=xoPXQLSoRC&sig=2yrYi9PoCLPBBrDYQ66yp4JCHuI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwixyO3qzeLQAhVsDMAKHaPKDXEQ6AEIFzAE#v=onepage&q=crowther oibo white&f=false

Probz:


"The earliest academic evidence of 'oyinbo' in Yoruba land comes much later in the mid 1800s in the form of Yoruba dictionary written by Ajayi Crowther. About 7 years earlier before he published the dictionary, Crowther had written a short book about his experiences in spreading Christianity (anglicanism) East of the Niger and he had remarkably mentioned that he and the Igbo Sierra Leonan were often called 'oyibo ojii' ('white' blacks or europeanized blacks) by the Igbo natives. Note Ajayi Crowther spent some time in the east during his religious expansion. This is probable evidence that this word may have been carried over to Yoruba land by Ajayi Crowther and his religious crew for usage, which later spread in the west. This is even more plausible given that the Nri civilization is the oldest civilization in Nigeria, predating Ife, Bini and Oyo civilizations."

Bigfrancis posted that a few comments up. See for yourself jare.

RedboneSmith:


So you are saying the Yorubas of the time were not using that word, but Crowther went ahead anyway to put it in a Yoruba dictionary?

Does that make sense to you?

Probz:


Nah, but it makes sense that Ajayi took the word to the west. As bigfrancis said, he himself was called oibo in the east before the mid-19th century. That's the crux of the matter fam. He'd been called that exact word in the east before he later recorded it in any Yoruba dictionary.

RedboneSmith:


Ajayi Crowther's Yoruba-English dictionary from 1843 contains the word oibo for white man. That's before 1850, so there.

https://books.google.com.ng/books?id=uadfAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA80&lpg=PA80&dq=crowther+oibo+white&source=bl&ots=xoPXQLSoRC&sig=2yrYi9PoCLPBBrDYQ66yp4JCHuI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwixyO3qzeLQAhVsDMAKHaPKDXEQ6AEIFzAE#v=onepage&q=crowther oibo white&f=false

Probz:


Nri civilization is the oldest civilization in Nigeria, predating Ife, Bini and Oyo civilizations."

Bigfrancis posted that a few comments up. See for yourself jare.

Probz:


I dunno. I've heard Pidgin being used loads in Igboland during my stays in Awka and Aba (especially among the younger generation, even the ones born-and-bred in the East), not to mention the well-known Onicha Pidgin.

The Nigerian groups that use pidgin the most are the Niger Delta/South-South minorities (Bini, Urhobo, Ijaw, etc.), followed by the Igbo. Yorubas speak their native tongue with pride mern and from what I've seen brokin's barely ever used in interior Yorubaland. Lagos is a different story.

ezeagu:


It's actually funny to hear that Niger Delta communities pidgin use is comparable to Igbo pidgin use. Urhobo itself is being eaten at the sides by pidgin, there's nowhere in Igboland that I know of where an elder would address you in pidgin like an Urhobo or other Niger Delta elder would. I think you might be talking about 'passive' use or for foreigners, like how some people abuse phone.

I'm talking as a primary mode of communication between native people, Igbo people don't even really speak pidgin within themselves in Lagos, it's either Igbo or Engligbo, or English if they don't speak Igbo, an average southeastern couldn't keep up pidgin with a Lagosian or Warri person. If this wasn't the case, then most music and slang in the SE wouldn't be in Igbo but pidgin, like it is in Port Harcourt, Warri and other delta areas. Pidgin has always been a Niger Delta and Lagos thing, which is why the towns you listed are major commercial hubs. I don't know Onitsha pidgin, all I know is when non-Onitsha return from the town they usually blow Onitsha Igbo dialect, not anything else.

Apart from that, the words people are insinuating are used widely in the SE like shebi, omo and egbon are not used widely at all.

RedboneSmith:


So you are saying the Yorubas of the time were not using that word, but Crowther went ahead anyway to put it in a Yoruba dictionary?

Does that make sense to you?