Ontarget:
Some Atheists will say the God mentioned in the Bible is fake and doesn't exist due to some inconsistencies. The God of the Bible may be fake, but the God of creation is definitely not fake, and that is the God I am referring to in this topic; the intelligent invisible spirit behind the creation of the universe and everything within. This topic has nothing to do with the "fake" God of the Bible, but rather the real God behind creation.

what type of god? it could be big bang, right?

If you are an Atheist, what if you were somewhere outside in a sandy area looking around, and suddenly you started seeing grains of sand slowly assemble themselves to form a perfect sculpture of a human form to the finest details? What exactly will be your conclusion while witnessing such?

my conclusion will be "grains of sand slowly assemble themselves to form a perfect sculpture of a human to the finest details" simple . No further assumptions.

Definitely you will conclude that whatever force is making the grains of sand assemble themselves must be concious and very intelligent to be able to guide every individual grain of sand to position themselves at the appropriate places to carve out a perfect human sculpture to the finest details.

which force again . making assumptions here we go again, this forces could be big bang

When a child is forming in the womb, billions of individual cells divide and arrange themselves to form the eyes, nose, teeth, brain and every other thing to the finest details to form a complete human being. Is it by chance or by evolution that billions cells coordinate themselves appropriately in the right place and time to form a complete human being? This is something evolution or chance cannot explain. For such a thing to take place there must be an intelligent spirit to provide the direction or source code that will guide every single billion cell to fit itself at the appropriate place without any disorganisation.

If you are an Atheist, what if you were somewhere outside in a sandy area looking around, and suddenly you started seeing grains of sand slowly assemble themselves to form a perfect sculpture of a human form to the finest details, What exactly will be your conclusion while witnessing such?

Here is my conclusion. If every assembled thing need an assembler, then who assembled the assembler?

so what does an atheist think about this?

Atheist does not make assumptions Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?

4kings:

Michio Kaku, propagates this theory, and it's quite compelling.
What do you think?

There is a possibility that the multiverse is Infinite and our universe is just a space expanding into....

EyeHateGod:

There is a possibility that the multiverse is Infinite and our universe is just a space expanding into....

into..?
What do u think about connection between this multiverse , like 'dejavu'?

4kings:


into..?
What do u think about connection between this multiverse , like 'dejavu'?

What do you think the multiverse is?

KingEbukasBlog:


No , not at all . I just posted it because I felt it was a fun thing to do

I guessed right then

Do you agree that since Stephen Hawkings agrees with the "beginning of time" thing then it's true?

KingEbukasBlog:


The multiverse still does not preclude the existence of God .

God's existence, if it does exist, is totally useless to us in this modern age. Can you name 5 things that god has achieved in the last 50 years?

hahn:


God's existence, if it does exist, is totally useless to us in this modern age. Can you name 5 things that god has achieved in the last 50 years?

Which God , the personal or impersonal God ?

KingEbukasBlog:


Which God , the personal or impersonal God ?

Both of them

Brown47:

Here is my conclusion. If every assembled thing need an assembler, then who assembled the assembler?

Your response was just empty void of reasoning. I only selected the part above just to respond to it.
That statement above lacks intelligence. Why cant you admit that there is a limit to human understanding and perception? There are certain things that are beyond the scope of the human mind to grasp. When it comes to the question of who assembled the assembler it is just beyond the scope of our understanding. The fact still remains that humans did not create themselves. Something definitely created humans. Are you saying humans just appeared out of thin air? Then what assembled the thin air from which humans appeared from according to your logic?

Ramon92:
Let's say while those cells were rearranging themselves, all of a sudden they get exposed to let's say some doses of radiation (which is a physical phenomenon) and we know happens next.

My question is, does this not question the intelligence of this so called intelligent designer??

What sort of question is that? Who is exposing the cells to radiation? Are you the one exposing it or is it Satan? The fact that many cells were protected and were never exposed to radiation actually proves there is a master defending and directing creation. Simple

Ontarget:
Some Atheists will say the God mentioned in the Bible is fake and doesn't exist due to some inconsistencies. The God of the Bible may be fake, but the God of creation is definitely not fake, and that is the God I am referring to in this topic; the intelligent invisible spirit behind the creation of the universe and everything within. This topic has nothing to do with the "fake" God of the Bible, but rather the real God behind creation.

If you are an Atheist, what if you were somewhere outside in a sandy area looking around, and suddenly you started seeing grains of sand slowly assemble themselves to form a perfect sculpture of a human form to the finest details? What exactly will be your conclusion while witnessing such? Definitely you will conclude that whatever force is making the grains of sand assemble themselves must be concious and very intelligent to be able to guide every individual grain of sand to position themselves at the appropriate places to carve out a perfect human sculpture to the finest details.

When a child is forming in the womb, billions of individual cells divide and arrange themselves to form the eyes, nose, teeth, brain and every other thing to the finest details to form a complete human being. Is it by chance or by evolution that billions cells coordinate themselves appropriately in the right place and time to form a complete human being? This is something evolution or chance cannot explain. For such a thing to take place there must be an intelligent spirit to provide the direction or source code that will guide every single billion cell to fit itself at the appropriate place without any disorganisation.

So what would an atheist think about this?

For once i thought it was foppish to give audience least i be turned cake in mine imagination.But on a lighter plane the ingredient of your fury on observation far outscales my gentility,and in response i sued to defer.

What proof have you? How come a story one tends to support a thought or views zeroed to a proof?
What is the meaning of 'Proof'?
A story or assumption or descriptive or narrative essay is nothing synonymous to a proof.

How much are you given to the science of embryo/fetus development(Embryology)?
How much do you comprehend Teratology?
If you know the least of these noble studies,you would understand that the complexities of embryo-to-fetal growth and development board above rules in common to any intelligent being.
This chances are responsible for the uniqueness in the normal and the prolific differences in the abnormal.

The day chances stop,either the normal or the abnormal may not be but as it so it will be.

4kings:

Stephen Hawkings has explained this already.
You can do urself favor by reading his article "The Beginning Of Time".

Does time really have a begining?

Ontarget:

Your response was just empty void of reasoning. I only selected the part above just to respond to it.
That statement above lacks intelligence. Why cant you admit that there is a limit to human understanding and perception? There are certain things that are beyond the scope of the human mind to grasp.

exactly! such as how the world started, right? then why assume a creator, when you said its beyond human understanding and perception?
that means its not out of human understanding and perception since you know its a creator that assembled it.

When it comes to the question of who assembled the assembler it is just beyond the scope of our understanding.

so When it comes to the question of who assembled the world its within human understanding? , how did you know, who told you?

The fact still remains that humans did not create themselves. Something definitely created humans.

please what is that something? it could be the big bang right?

Are you saying humans just appeared out of thin air? Then what assembled the thin air from which humans appeared from according to your logic?

are you saying the assembler just appeared out of thin air? Then what assembled the thin air from which assembler appeared from according to your logic?

Brown47:


exactly! such as how the world started, right? then why assume a creator, when you said its beyond human understanding and perception?
that means its not out of human understanding and perception since you know its a creator that assembled it.



so When it comes to the question of who assembled the world its within human understanding? , how did you know, who told you?



please what is that something? it could be the big bang right?



are you saying the assembler just appeared out of thin air? Then what assembled the thin air from which assembler appeared from according to your logic?

So what is your opinion about the origin of intelligent life on earth? Where did intelligent life come from?

Ontarget:

So what is your opinion about the origin of intelligent life on earth? Where did intelligent life come from?

i do not know, simple! i wont make further assumptions.

or do you know?

Brown47:


i do not know, simple! i wont make further assumptions.

or do you know?

So you feel comfortable not knowing where intelligent life came from but you don't feel comfortable not knowing where a God came from?
Since you said "you don't know" then it means you accept the possibility that creation came from a superior intelligent being, therefore you are not an atheist.

Ontarget:

So you feel comfortable not knowing where intelligent life came from but you don't feel comfortable not knowing where a God came from?

whats the significance in knowing where life came from? ok its from the flying supaggeti monster, big bang. then what ?

Since you said "you don't know" then it means you accept the possibility that creation came from a superior intelligent being, therefore you are not an atheist.

ordinary humans must need a creator, but a more complex being( the superior intelligent being) doesn't require a creator?

your notion of a creator is flawed.

Ontarget:
Some Atheists will say the God mentioned in the Bible is fake and doesn't exist due to some inconsistencies. The God of the Bible may be fake, but the God of creation is definitely not fake, and that is the God I am referring to in this topic; the intelligent invisible spirit behind the creation of the universe and everything within. This topic has nothing to do with the "fake" God of the Bible, but rather the real God behind creation.

If you are an Atheist, what if you were somewhere outside in a sandy area looking around, and suddenly you started seeing grains of sand slowly assemble themselves to form a perfect sculpture of a human form to the finest details? What exactly will be your conclusion while witnessing such? Definitely you will conclude that whatever force is making the grains of sand assemble themselves must be concious and very intelligent to be able to guide every individual grain of sand to position themselves at the appropriate places to carve out a perfect human sculpture to the finest details.

When a child is forming in the womb, billions of individual cells divide and arrange themselves to form the eyes, nose, teeth, brain and every other thing to the finest details to form a complete human being. Is it by chance or by evolution that billions cells coordinate themselves appropriately in the right place and time to form a complete human being? This is something evolution or chance cannot explain. For such a thing to take place there must be an intelligent spirit to provide the direction or source code that will guide every single billion cell to fit itself at the appropriate place without any disorganisation.

So what would an atheist think about this?

it is not chance per se...but a normal natural process..
A source code..elucidate on that..
P.s i dont think source code means the same thing as a ''guiding hand''..
On the intelligent being..
Would you also say an intelligent being is behind every bacteria binary fission reproduction?

also...how would you account for birth situations such as
intersex babies
?

Or birth defects such as anencephaly?

Ontarget:

Your response was just empty void of reasoning. I only selected the part above just to respond to it.
That statement above lacks intelligence. Why cant you admit that there is a limit to human understanding and perception? There are certain things that are beyond the scope of the human mind to grasp. When it comes to the question of who assembled the assembler it is just beyond the scope of our understanding. The fact still remains that humans did not create themselves. Something definitely created humans. Are you saying humans just appeared out of thin air? Then what assembled the thin air from which humans appeared from according to your logic?

If his statement lacks intelligence, then yours is worse... Humans did not create themselves, therefore the being that created humans must be uncreated?? If God is so amazing, how did he come into existence

foladara777:

If his statement lacks intelligence, then yours is worse... Humans did not create themselves, therefore the being that created humans must be uncreated?? If God is so amazing, how did he come into existence

The issue is not whether God was created or uncreated. That is beyond the scope of this discussion and also beyond the human mind to grasp. The issue is that there is certainly intelligence behind creation and we must accept the existence of this intelligence. Who or what owns this intelligence and where it came from is exactly what we don't know. Simple

MrMontella:

it is not chance per se...but a normal natural process..
A source code..elucidate on that..
P.s i dont think source code means the same thing as a ''guiding hand''..
On the intelligent being..
Would you also say an intelligent being is behind every bacteria binary fission reproduction?

also...how would you account for birth situations such as
intersex babies
?

Or birth defects such as anencephaly?

When you buy 10 new cars and one of the new cars has a defect does it mean that cars are not manufactured?
The birth defect may probably have been caused by human interference such as exposures to harmful agents like radiation, poisonous gases, liquids or solids. When the conditions are perfectly right a foetus will always become a perfect human being.

Brown47:


whats the significance in knowing where life came from? ok its from the flying supaggeti monster, big bang. then what ?



ordinary humans must need a creator, but a more complex being( the superior intelligent being) doesn't require a creator?

your notion of a creator is flawed.

Like I responded to some fellow initially, The fact remains that there is so much intelligence behind creation and I believe you accept that. The issue of where this intelligence came from is what we don't know and totally beyond our grasp and understanding. This intelligence behind creation is what I chose to call God.

EyeHateGod:

What do you think the multiverse is?

Parallel universes coexisting at the same time.
Michio Kaku thinks Dejavu might also explain parallel universes; that is thoughts of other universes received consciously , when in the right frequency.

DrLazDevitan:


Does time really have a begining?

This universe has a beginning.
The ultimate dimension where it came from has to be eternal.

Ontarget:


When a child is forming in the womb, billions of individual cells divide and arrange themselves to form the eyes, nose, teeth, brain and every other thing to the finest details to form a complete human being. Is it by chance or by evolution that billions cells coordinate themselves appropriately in the right place and time to form a complete human being? This is something evolution or chance cannot explain. For such a thing to take place there must be an intelligent spirit to provide the direction or source code that will guide every single billion cell to fit itself at the appropriate place without any disorganisation.

So what would an atheist think about this?

I am a Christian and I am a scientist.
I hate it when Christians refuse to educate themselves about science.
In simple terms, the formation of a child to become what he/she becomes during natural fertilization is first by chance (you cannot choose what sperm fertilizes the ovum).
Then, the growth of the zygote to become a foetus/child is guided by his genes/DNA (half from mum and half from dad).
Read up on the CRISPR/Cas system. If you knock out a particular gene (for instance the gene the codes for hair) from the zygote, that baby will not have hair. If you knock in a gene for blond hair, that baby will have blond hair. That is why the technology is seriously regulated to prevent the emergence of 'designer babies'.
If you are trying to challenge evolutionist do yourself a favor and educate yourself.

elektra:


I am a Christian and I am a scientist (PhD in the US).
I hate it when Christians refuse to educate themselves about science.
In simple terms, the formation of a child to become what he/she becomes during natural fertilization is first by chance (you cannot choose what sperm fertilizes the ovum).
Then, the growth of the zygote to become a foetus/child is guided by his genes/DNA (half from mum and half from dad).
Read up on the CRISPR/Cas system. If you knock out a particular gene (for instance the gene the codes for hair) from the zygote, that baby will not have hair. If you knock in a gene for blond hair, that baby will have blond hair. That is why the technology is seriously regulated to prevent the emergence of 'designer babies'.
If you are trying to challenge evolutionist do yourself a favor and educate yourself.

You are a scientist and PhD from the US but your reasoning doesn't seem to match up with that. I was certainly not talking about which sperm fertilized an egg. That aspect we all know happens by chance. Of course the characteristics of a child depends on the gene composition and we all know that. But that is not really the focus of the topic at hand. The matter is if Atheists think nothing created humans then where did the genetic blueprint that intelligently directs the formation of a human being from a single cell to a complex structure in the womb come from?

Ontarget:

You are a scientist and PhD from the US but your reasoning doesn't seem to match up with that. I was certainly not talking about which sperm fertilized an egg. That aspect we all know happens by chance. Of course the characteristics of a child depends on the gene composition and we all know that. But that is not really the focus of the topic at hand. The matter is if Atheists think nothing created humans then where did the genetic blueprint that intelligently directs the formation of a human being from a single cell to a complex structure in the womb come from?

The bolded should have been your original question.
Your question was seeking why cells form a complex human. If you already know they are directed by genes then why did you ask? You should have asked where the said genes originated from. If the focus of your question was on genetic blueprint then why isn't there a single mention of it in your original post? All you talked about was cells and now you're claiming your focus was on genes.

hopefulLandlord:
Another Proof that The Flying Spaghetti Monster is real


all glory to FSM

you would have sent your praise to the transparent unicorn. who cares about your delusion?

4kings:


This universe has a beginning.
The ultimate dimension where it came from has to be eternal.

how do you know this?

And on time having a beginning...how do you know time started with our universe?
Time is just a measure of events you know

elektra:


The bolded should have been your original question.
Your question was seeking why cells form a complex human. If you already know they are directed by genes then why did you ask? You should have asked where the said genes originated from. If the focus of your question was on genetic blueprint then why isn't there a single mention of it in your original post? All you talked about was cells and now you're claiming your focus was on genes.

The genes reside in the cells isn't it? So when I mentioned cell you should have understood it encompasses the constituents of a cell.

Ontarget:

When you buy 10 new cars and one of the new cars has a defect does it mean that cars are not manufactured?
The birth defect may probably have been caused by human interference such as exposures to harmful agents like radiation, poisonous gases, liquids or solids. When the conditions are perfectly right a foetus will always become a perfect human being.

the defects i listed/stated...are not caused by human interference.....
On your car issue...
You ignored my question on bacteria...thats a starting point to the car.....
On the statistics of the cars...
The number of birth defects are high...
Too high for a designer...
Unless a poor one...Nature

Ontarget:

The genes reside in the cells isn't it? So when I mentioned cell you should have understood it encompasses the constituents of a cell.

Is DNA the only thing in the cell? No
Do all other things within the cell give it a blueprint to follow? No
Is DNA/genes the only thing in the cells that gives the cells a blueprint? Yes.
Why are you asking about the whole cell when you actually want to talk about genes?
Your original question is flawed. If you want to talk about genes then talk about genes.