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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Culture / Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. (21606 Views)
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Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by Probz(m): 3:26pm On Dec 01, 2016 |
AkinPhysicist: Still looks more red/yellow to me than white. Oyinbo is Yoruba, oyibo Igbo. Simples. We're debating which is the ORIGINAL. They both have convincing theories and etymologies. Try and understand that Mr Physicist. Oyibo may derive from oye-eboe, oyinbo from one nonsense Yoruba adage of peeled honey melanin equating to white skin. That doesn't make the form used by the Igbos (and the rest of Southern Nigeria) any less authentically and natively Igbo. And they're both pronounced nearly exactly the same, other than that the Yorubas will write it with an n because of a variant/different etymology you've ascribed to it. You can keep your oyinbo, onyibo, oyingbo, and all these other silly western remixes. Oyibo as used by Igbos/Binis is as Igbo as Agukwu Nri. 7 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by AkinPhysicist: 3:40pm On Dec 01, 2016 |
Probz:how can you see the obvious when you are blinded with Ipob propaganda? Probz:Semantics. Either they both have a common origin. Or one copied from the other. I posit that the Oyibo was copied from Oyinbo. Until you and the daft fellow provide 'academic' proof otherwise, you are just wasting your time. Probz:It is your and your people's adage that is nonsense and useless. Again where is your 'academic' proof? Probz: ![]() 4 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by Probz(m): 3:43pm On Dec 01, 2016 |
AkinPhysicist: Oludah Equiano was a white man? And you go call call someone else foolish? No wahala. Continue o jare 2 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by AkinPhysicist: 3:52pm On Dec 01, 2016 |
Probz: ![]() ![]() 3 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by Probz(m): 4:01pm On Dec 01, 2016 |
AkinPhysicist: Nah mern. You're the one saying that we're reducing African culture to words spoken by some white man. And who's this oyibo of whom you dey speak? If that was in reference to Equiano, I'm shocked. 5 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by AkinPhysicist: 4:18pm On Dec 01, 2016 |
Probz: ![]() ![]() 2 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by Probz(m): 6:52pm On Dec 01, 2016 |
AkinPhysicist: I won't argue with that. My bad for misreading. That doesn't change the fact that there's documented evidence of Ndigbo using oyibo (albeit in an earlier form) since the 1700s. Where's the evidence that oyibo was derived from oyinbo? 6 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by OlaoChi: 5:28am On Dec 02, 2016 |
Probz: waoh I thought you were smart. calling the yoruba given etymology nonsense shows you are one of them blinded by bigotry. in all sincerity the onye igbo theory you're giving doesn't hold water because there's no evidence to support that, it also doesn't make sense calling whites oyibo knowing that it is their corruption of "onye igbo" Oyinbo, oyibo, ebo are all said in Yoruba but written language has a liking for oyinbo it's a pity the minds of young people in Africa is not open and free, you can never grow intellectually like this 11 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by AkinPhysicist: 4:07pm On Dec 02, 2016 |
Probz: |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by Probz(m): 4:55pm On Dec 02, 2016 |
OlaoChi: It's literally nonsense to me because it makes no sense from where I'm standing. But that's just me. There's at least just enough evidence (if not more) that oyibo derived from oye-ebo than there is for this 'oyin to bo' (scratched honey/peeled melanin) theory. 8 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by bigfrancis21: 6:19pm On Dec 02, 2016 |
OlaoChi: The Hausas call the Igbos 'nyamiri', a corruption of 'nye m miri' (give me water) they heard when the first Igbos who arrived in the North were thirsty and had to ask for water to drink. The Hausas, obviously could not understand what was said so in return called them these 'nyamiri' people. That's just an example of how the spoken words of someone could be a marker for that person and could be later used to describe, know or call that person, as in 'oye ibo' as the Europeans would have called it (obviously they could not pronounce the 'gb' sound), and in turn they were called called 'oyeebo' because of their funny accent or way of pronouncing 'onye igbo'. Forget all these unnecessary argument. Oyibo is an Igbo word. Olaudah Equiano described in his memoir his village people using it as far back as the early 1700s. This was a remote village in Igboland far from the sea and the border areas with other linguistic ethnic groups but 'oyibo' was already being used in the Igbo language. This removes any sort of 'linguistic adoption' theory as you may want to infer. The earliest academic evidence of 'oyinbo' in Yoruba land comes much later in the mid 1800s in the form of Yoruba dictionary written by Ajayi Crowther. About 7 years earlier before he published the dictionary, Crowther had written a short book about his experiences in spreading Christianity (anglicanism) East of the Niger and he had remarkably mentioned that he and the Igbo Sierra Leonan were often called 'oyibo ojii' ('white' blacks or europeanized blacks) by the Igbo natives. Note Ajayi Crowther spent some time in the east during his religious expansion. This is probable evidence that this word may have been carried over to Yoruba land by Ajayi Crowther and his religious crew for usage, which later spread in the west. This is even more plausible given that the Nri civilization is the oldest civilization in Nigeria, predating Ife, Bini and Oyo civilizations. This explains why online articles on the origin of 'oyibo' leans more towards an Igbo origin than Yoruba origin. You need to really dig deep into history to discover the truth for yourself. Let go of your sense of 'cultural superiority' and you'd be surprised at what you discover. 10 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by OlaoChi: 12:55am On Dec 03, 2016 |
bigfrancis21: how this keeps dragging along is shocking. this nyamiri incident doesn't apply here because the Hausas use it as a derogatory term to mock igbos, it is not meant to be descriptive in nature but a mere mockery unlike onye ibo which you have no evidence that White people called igbos, or why igbos will call white folks a term they know originally refers to them. why would igbos call white people a name that igbo people use to refer to themselves? also onye igbo refers to a single (igbo) person, "ndigbo" is for the Igbo people in general. why would europeans (and which europeans exactly, provide proof) call all igbos "onye ibo" or "oyiibo" how does this rest in your brain? all you did here is assumption Adura, Wakati, kefiri, are words for example used in Yoruba from arabic since the 17th century. it doesn't matter if igbo started using oyibo since the 13th century, as long as it doesn't mean anything in Igbo, it tells bad for you as a descriptive term in a west african language should be self explanatory other languages that use oyibo or forms similar to it have meanings related to its use eg. peel/pale, shade, hue which are self explanatory in relation to its use igbo Nri civilization you talked about was heavily influenced by Benin and Igala, infact Eri was most likely from igala I'm half igbo, so I don't hold any cultural superiority of yorubas, at least not a hint of such until I began to see the immature way igbos behave on cultural and historical matters 9 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by bigfrancis21: 4:29am On Dec 03, 2016 |
OlaoChi: @bold...well that's very debatable. You would have to come up with evidence of your 'hard influence' on Nri culture. Till date, there's very little evidence of such culture influences on Nri. But we have surviving Nri cultures in those areas instead. For example, the igbo 4 market days of Eke, Oye, Afor and Nkwo are still used by the Binis and Igalas till date. Oyibo simply means 'light skinned' in Igbo. It doesn't matter if there's a syllabic word for word breakdown for it. It's just like trying to ascribe a meaning to 'complicated' syllable by syllable when the word just means what it is or is sufficient in its entirety. Second, Nri predates the entire culture of southern Nigeria, thus Eri being from Igala is unimaginable. The usage of nyamiri, derogatory or not, is just an example of how words stick from mispronunciation. 'bekee' also used in Igbo to refer to whites or English originates from one white missionary in Igboland, 'baikie' which the igbos pronounced as 'bekee' and with time the usage and meaning of the word expanded to refer to all whites, European civilization, English language etc. Also, meanings and usage of words expand with time. With time new meanings and interpretations are added or removed from words. Ekwensu, the igbo word for devil, did not refer to the devil originally. Now it means devil, since the advent of christianity. Like wise, the original meaning of 'chi' referred to 'guarding spirit' as the Igbo traditional religion believes that everybody has a guardian angel or spirit guide of their own called 'chi'. However, since christianity Chi now refers to God. Chukwu = chi+ukwu (great chi) = God. In linguistics, it's a known fact that the meanings of words or word usages are not static. They evolve over time. Third, I don't think there's any need over flogging this topic. Theres academic evidence showing the usage of oyibo in igboland to as far back as the 1700s. Anything else is mere speculation and cannot be proven. Ajayi crowther himself, in his dictionary did not render the 'oyin+bo' theory in his dictionary of the mid 1800s. Such theory is most likely of recent adaptation. Oyibo is Igbo, oyinbo could be yoruba. I don't think any Igbo has claimed 'oyinbo' to be Igbo because it does not make sense in Igbo but oyibo itself does. Your being half Igbo does not negate your sense of cultural superiority. It is clearly written all over your posts. If oyinbo means sense in Yoruba, so be it. In igbo language, oyibo makes sense to us, and it has been academically proven to be of older usage than 'oyinbo'. QED 9 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by Probz(m): 5:48am On Dec 03, 2016 |
bigfrancis21: Great post but http://ukpuru.tumblr.com/search/bekee , https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=aoCMN_twPJUC&pg=PA62&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false http://ukpuru.tumblr.com/post/115997041797/igbo-ubani-bonny-island-dialect-word-list-by 'Some notes: We’ve been told that ‘bèké’ ‘foreigner/white man’ is corrupted from William Balfour Baikie’s name, however ákụ́ bèké and mmanyá bèké are on this list published in 1830, six years after Baikie’s birth, so that’s out the window.' Re. bekee, I honestly think this mbracka-buckra-bekee theory is much more plausible. And it explains why it's only southern Igbos that use bekee (Cross River/Akwa Ibom to Abia/Imo - i.e., the Igbo hinterland). 'Also, the Igbo word for "white man colonizer" is "bia i ke," meaning "they have come to divide"; however, that was corrupted to be called bekee. Some authors have incorrectly said that it was the name of the English explorer Dr William Baikie.' https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=594cCwAAQBAJ&pg=PT194&dq=bekee+divide+baikie&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjL4ammnNfQAhVRF8AKHZkECicQ6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q=bekee%20divide%20baikie&f=false Baikie's theory is definitely out of the window. I think it's definitely either one or the other of the above. 3 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by Probz(m): 11:34pm On Dec 06, 2016 |
OlaoChi: I can only LMAO when you say that Nri kingdom was heavily influenced by Bini. Nri that even predates all these other civilisations. 5 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by ezeagu(m): 4:02am On Dec 07, 2016 |
drsugar: Nobody usese these words 'in the east' apart from egusi, which is an Igbo word and soup despite what some people have written here, instead they use: Ngwa - ngwa now Iyanga - don't do iyanga for me Kwa - as okay ukwa Okwa - as in okwa ya? 5 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by ezeagu(m): 4:18am On Dec 07, 2016 |
Not this oyibo business again, nobody has been able to give evidence of any non-Igbo community using 'oyibo' before 1850 yet, so until then 'oyibo' is Igbo. 7 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by ezeagu(m): 4:31am On Dec 07, 2016 |
bigfrancis21: Nobody uses shey, abi, oya, or tokunbo in Igboland unless they are Lagos raised and pidign is hardly used outside of Port Harcourt anyway, they use okwa, ngwa, okirika and the likes. In fact I have never heard the later ones used in any Igbo state even by Lagos based adults (maybe kids back for Christmas). Yoruba words used in Igboland are usually for things made by or borrowed from Yorubaland, so like ori (shea butter) and ashebi. Igbo people in the diaspora may use Lagos terms because everybody has mixed more there. 4 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by ezeagu(m): 4:33am On Dec 07, 2016 |
Onijagidijagan: This is the result of media being completely based in Lagos and Abuja, the bolded words are the only words you may hear in the east. 4 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by OlaoChi: 11:17am On Dec 07, 2016 |
Probz: I take it you and your boss don't know the difference between civilization and kingdom. also the date given by 20th century Igbos for the foundation of Nri kingdom is malicious. the list of kings is too short 2 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by Probz(m): 5:29pm On Dec 07, 2016 |
ezeagu: I dunno for that. I've heard Pidgin being used loads in Igboland during my stays in Awka and Aba (especially among the younger generation, even the ones born-and-bred in the East), not to mention the well-known Onitsha variety of brokin. The Nigerian groups that use pidgin the most are the Niger Delta/South-South minorities (Bini, Urhobo, Ijaw, etc.), closely followed by the Igbo. Yorubas speak their native tongue with pride mern and from what I've seen brokin's barely ever used in interior Yorubaland. Lagos is a different story. 3 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by Probz(m): 5:30pm On Dec 07, 2016 |
ezeagu: I dunno. I've heard Pidgin being used loads in Igboland during my stays in Awka and Aba (especially among the younger generation, even the ones born-and-bred in the East), not to mention the well-known Onicha Pidgin. The Nigerian groups that use pidgin the most are the Niger Delta/South-South minorities (Bini, Urhobo, Ijaw, etc.), followed by the Igbo. Yorubas speak their native tongue with pride mern and from what I've seen brokin's barely ever used in interior Yorubaland. Lagos is a different story. |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by RedboneSmith(m): 6:33pm On Dec 07, 2016 |
ezeagu: Ajayi Crowther's Yoruba-English dictionary from 1843 contains the word oibo for white man. That's before 1850, so there. https://books.google.com.ng/books?id=uadfAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA80&lpg=PA80&dq=crowther+oibo+white&source=bl&ots=xoPXQLSoRC&sig=2yrYi9PoCLPBBrDYQ66yp4JCHuI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwixyO3qzeLQAhVsDMAKHaPKDXEQ6AEIFzAE#v=onepage&q=crowther oibo white&f=false 4 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by Probz(m): 7:39pm On Dec 07, 2016 |
RedboneSmith: "The earliest academic evidence of 'oyinbo' in Yoruba land comes much later in the mid 1800s in the form of Yoruba dictionary written by Ajayi Crowther. About 7 years earlier before he published the dictionary, Crowther had written a short book about his experiences in spreading Christianity (anglicanism) East of the Niger and he had remarkably mentioned that he and the Igbo Sierra Leonan were often called 'oyibo ojii' ('white' blacks or europeanized blacks) by the Igbo natives. Note Ajayi Crowther spent some time in the east during his religious expansion. This is probable evidence that this word may have been carried over to Yoruba land by Ajayi Crowther and his religious crew for usage, which later spread in the west. This is even more plausible given that the Nri civilization is the oldest civilization in Nigeria, predating Ife, Bini and Oyo civilizations." Bigfrancis posted that a few comments up. See for yourself jare. 6 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by RedboneSmith(m): 8:21pm On Dec 07, 2016 |
Probz: So you are saying the Yorubas of the time were not using that word, but Crowther went ahead anyway to put it in a Yoruba dictionary? Does that make sense to you? 2 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by Probz(m): 8:23pm On Dec 07, 2016 |
RedboneSmith: Nah, but it makes sense that Ajayi took the word to the west. As bigfrancis said, he himself was called oibo in the east before the mid-19th century. That's the crux of the matter fam. He'd been called that exact word in the east before he later recorded it in any Yoruba dictionary. 1 Like |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by RedboneSmith(m): 8:32pm On Dec 07, 2016 |
Probz: This is as ridiculous as saying that an Igbo lexicographer who had been to the North will carry 'Bature' with him back to Igboland and even go ahead to include it in an Igbo dictionary. It is absurd. However the word got to Yorubaland, it makes no sense to say that it does not predate Crowther's dictionary. 7 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by ezeagu(m): 8:43pm On Dec 07, 2016 |
RedboneSmith: Not surprising that this isn't a first hand account, but a dictionary. Europeans would surely note what they were called by various African groups, so why can't anybody find Europeans being referred to as oyibo by anyone other than the Igbo people of the Niger River? 8 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by OlaoChi: 9:04pm On Dec 07, 2016 |
Probz: never heard of Nok civilization ![]() 4 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by ezeagu(m): 9:06pm On Dec 07, 2016 |
Probz: It's actually funny to hear that Niger Delta communities pidgin use is comparable to Igbo pidgin use. Urhobo itself is being eaten at the sides by pidgin, there's nowhere in Igboland that I know of where an elder would address you in pidgin like an Urhobo or other Niger Delta elder would. I think you might be talking about 'passive' use or for foreigners, like how some people abuse phone. I'm talking as a primary mode of communication between native people, Igbo people don't even really speak pidgin within themselves in Lagos, it's either Igbo or Engligbo, or English if they don't speak Igbo, an average southeastern couldn't keep up pidgin with a Lagosian or Warri person. If this wasn't the case, then most music and slang in the SE wouldn't be in Igbo but pidgin, like it is in Port Harcourt, Warri and other delta areas. Pidgin has always been a Niger Delta and Lagos thing, which is why the towns you listed are major commercial hubs. I don't know Onitsha pidgin, all I know is when non-Onitsha return from the town they usually blow Onitsha Igbo dialect, not anything else. Apart from that, the words people are insinuating are used widely in the SE like shebi, omo and egbon are not used widely at all. 4 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by Probz(m): 9:15pm On Dec 07, 2016 |
ezeagu: I didn't say southeastern pidgin is comparable to Warri pidgin. I just wanted to save people the myth that all popular words in Nigeria originate from the Yoruba and that Yoruba people are somehow skilled in speaking pidgin (more so than the Niger Delta clans). I've heard this kind nonsense before but people don't tend to realise that it's only Lagos Yorubas that speak brokin with some frequency. It's definitely not a thing as far west as Ogbomosho or Ado-Ekiti. I'd still argue that hinterland Igbos are more likely to use at least a few isolated brokin terms than hinterland Yorubas, their own is Yoruba and nothing else being as conservative and old-time a people as their elders tend to be. 3 Likes |
Re: Who Is The Real Originator Of These Popular Words -igbos Or The Yorubas. by bigfrancis21: 5:56am On Dec 08, 2016 |
RedboneSmith: Yes it is possible. Anything is possible. Lack of humility and a false sense of cultural superiority would not allow you to explore other possible options. 4 Likes |
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